[VS] Haku VS Base Yin seal Sakura
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1. Shunshin has literally been associated with teleportation.
2. What you're claiming is that Haku's physical speed is literally light-speed if you think he can travel between each of the mirrors and attack Sasuke from every angle simultaneously. That's illogical and not even Minato can accomplish that. Haku's speed using the mirrors as a medium was depicted as high-speed movement and if you honestly believe that he surpasses Minato in this aspect, then you literally have a superficial view over the manga whilst ignoring context. Haku was only "implied" to move instantaneously because Sasuke couldn't perceive his movements at all, much like how KCM Naruto/ BM Naruto's speed was compared to Minato's Hiraishin because his speed appeared to be a "flash", but this doesn't mean he maneuvers at light speed.
Brother Numpsay
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Ok
Didnt the scan out right state and showed it w/ Mirrors? It was also done to Naruto and clones, disbursing simultaneously. My claim is only going by what was shown and backed up statement.
It follows manga logic and Minato doesnt have this jutsu so bringing him up is irrelevant
How does it surpass Minato when FTG is actual instant?
Manga made a big emphasis on the word simultaneously so I have good reason not be believe it was an exaggeration. Sasuke felt like he was attacked simultaneously and that wasnt the first time this happen to him by manga pages[
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]<-- Yet I'm not going argue that Naruto's attack speed effected Sasuke simultaneously, since no context backs it up. But we have actual context of Haku's speed. And actual context of jutsu speed is important.
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KidGamer65
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He said he uses teleportation Ninjutsu. Where does that imply light speed? Shunshin is also called Teleportation Technique, does that mean it's anywhere near light speed? Nope.
So Haku has to be at light speed to make it seem like he's hitting Sasuke at multiple points at once? Not even close. That argument doesn't make sense. Do you even comprehend how fast light speed is? TRE MERCER pointed it out in this thread. You can go across the earth 7 times in a single second. Haku being that fast is nonsense.
So? Does that mean he'll drop from light speed to a speed where Sasuke w/ no Sharingan can react to him? After a moderate amount of usage of his jutsu? Come on, no one can actually try to argue this. Obviously stamina and chakra correlate but that isn't my point.
And your points 1 and 2 don't address that scan. That scan shows actual mirror reflections. That's real light speed. What Haku does is nowhere near light speed. Haku would have to be on his last legs to ever be able to argue that his speed dropped from light speed to a speed where Sasuke can dodge him.
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So that's a concession? I honestly can't tell.
Yet Haku's movement wasn't depicted as instantaneous because it was explicitly shown to be rapid movement.
You're implying that Haku's transportation speed and attack speed is instantaneous. If that was the case, then Haku's literally above Minato which makes absolutely no sense.
Here's what you boldly claimed:
What you're presuming is that based off of Haku's statement, his attack speed has to be light-speed to travel through numerous different areas and still launch his projectiles at exactly the same time. This is why you've formed an illogical conclusion because it implicitly states that Haku is literally above Minato in the speed aspect which is a blatant contradiction in the manga.Brother Numpsay said:
Contextually, the manga specifically emphasizes that word because the succeeding sentence clarifies exactly why Sasuke used that particular word:
Context encompasses elements that precede or succeed specific statements/ elements that occur within a specific passage. The reason we analyze context is because blatantly ignoring context leads to false conclusions or fabrications of specific statements which is what you had just committed. What you're applying is a superficial view over the manga while deliberately ignoring context and this is literally the equivalent of stating that KCM Naruto's speed is on par with Minato's Hiraishin simply because the manga placed emphasis on it. That being said, Sasuke's statement was clearly in reference to Haku simply maneuvering too fast for his eye to handle, not because he was literally at light-speed which is clear when Sasuke infers that Haku's jutsu wasn't a bunshin jutsu.Sasuke said:
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Unorthodox
Active member
Drake <<<<<<<<<< Eminem.
OT:
Demonic Mirroring Ice Crystals (Makyou Hyoushou)
Kekkei Genkai, Offensive, Close to mid-range
User: Haku
The technique carved in cursed blood, inside the demonic mirrors is Haku’s phantom world!!
The abominable and tremendous ability, passed down only within
Haku’s clan… The Kekkei Genkai: Demonic Mirroring Ice Crystals is a technique wrapped up in many mysteries. Only one thing is clear: it is said that no method in existence can defeat this technique. In an instant, multiple mirrors of ice are created around the enemy,
reflecting nothing but Haku. For Haku, it’s possible to move
between the mirrors at the speed of light. It’s impossible to see
attacks send out from this literal light speed movement. For the
opponent, nothing is left but to wait in amazement.
Every single ice mirror shows Haku’s reflection!? Under these
circumstances, one could say it’s impossible to see all of Haku’s
attacks.
Naruto tries to attack the real body, but the moment after he starts his attack, Haku has already moved to another mirror.
Kekkei Genkai, Offensive, Close to mid-range
User: Haku
The technique carved in cursed blood, inside the demonic mirrors is Haku’s phantom world!!
The abominable and tremendous ability, passed down only within
Haku’s clan… The Kekkei Genkai: Demonic Mirroring Ice Crystals is a technique wrapped up in many mysteries. Only one thing is clear: it is said that no method in existence can defeat this technique. In an instant, multiple mirrors of ice are created around the enemy,
reflecting nothing but Haku. For Haku, it’s possible to move
between the mirrors at the speed of light. It’s impossible to see
attacks send out from this literal light speed movement. For the
opponent, nothing is left but to wait in amazement.
Every single ice mirror shows Haku’s reflection!? Under these
circumstances, one could say it’s impossible to see all of Haku’s
attacks.
Naruto tries to attack the real body, but the moment after he starts his attack, Haku has already moved to another mirror.
Not sure what to make of its DB description but in reality, striking speed should become useless when one is literally able to move at the speed of light. Time literally should pause for the person and since the eye registers visuals through receiving light bouncing off objects and interpreting it , then moving at the speed of light should make one register visuals twice as fast since he'll be travelling towards the light causing a clear tunnel vision (while losing peripheral vision though) virtually removing the need for striking speed since no matter what, he'll be able to strike faster than his opponent can register.
But if the mirror thing truly is light speed, then other characters in part 2 should be travelling over the speed of light...Maybe that's why Sasuke's DB has that 'godspeed' description :lol
KidGamer65
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Go read everything I've posted in this thread and get back at me, cause I addressed this.
This doesn't even make sense.
If Haku was moving at light speed, people wouldn't be "moving in slow motion". They would be stone cold still.
I can't believe people actually argue this. The implications of Haku having light speed reactions are ridiculous. He would solo the vast majority of the Naruverse. In reality he could barely blitz Sasuke and got merked by KN0 Naruto's speed.
Forbidden Technique
Active member
Well, when Haku was in movement, Naruto and all his clones were still as if time stopped.
Here we have Haku moving between mirrors as if time for everything else has stopped. In the blue boxes, Haku makes a whole bunch of instant movements while Naruto and his bunshins aren't moving at all. They all dispersed at the very same time, because it was though Haku hit them all simultaneously due to his speed. In the red box, the water didn't even slightly move from it's position either until Haku ended his transportation. Haku's speed went above Sasuke and Naruto's comprehension here.
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@ bold is incorrect, and tiring to explain over and over again. When Haku initiated his KKG, Sasuke was utterly helpless [
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]. The only reason Sasuke and Naruto were able to eventually start keeping up with Haku's speed is because it had regressed significantly from when Haku started using it.
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This is not to say Haku moves at literal light speed, nor have I've ever even stated or argued that. But the fact remains, is Haku is indeed extremely fast when moving at his peak speed. Being able to intercept a WA 3T Kakashi Raikiri blitz, and also having the physical reaction to block a swift kick from WA Rock Lee and Gai while traveling at high speeds right into it.
That's one interpretation with another being that Sasuke inferred that Haku's speed was regressing through lack of chakra even though context reveals that Sasuke's ability to react to Haku's movements merely improved which is why Haku appeared to be moving slower, hence why Haku didn't even mention the need to conserve his stamina until after Sasuke awakened his Sharingan. That said, I'm not sure what the 2nd scan proves when Haku states that he needs to end the fight quickly in order to conserve his chakra and maintain his speed as a result, no where is it even indicated that Haku's speed had regressed either than the previous scan you presented which can be explained in an entirely different way which also makes sense given the manga's context.
Ok, then I'm not sure why you bothered replying. That's the main point.
To your first point; Those objects highlighted are moving. Look at Naruto's foot in relative position to the water bubble, it moves closer. The tinier water bubble to the upper left of the bigger one also changes position.
So a diminishing chakra reserve in Haku means that his speed goes from "Some of the fastest in the Naruverse able to blindside elite Jonin" to "Gets merked by children". That's an incredibly steep gap, and would mean that pound for pound Haku's chakra offers absolutely enormous benefits for small amounts.
All of this to say that I still don't think the argument makes sense. If the position is that Haku uses the mirror's reflection to transport, it would follow that you also have to state that Haku's speed can't diminish since light is constant (not sure if you believe this, just throwing it out there in case you do).