Hagoromo/Hamura vs Kaguya/Juubi is a really weird and inconsistently written fight

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Hello. I've been thinking about this for years, but the Naruto manga's depiction of the fight that went on between Hagoromo/Hamura and Kaguya/Juubi has actually changed and contradicted itself time and time again.

Allow me to explain:

In the following scan, Hagoromo himself directly states that he and Hamura fought the juubi, and that at the juubi was sealed inside of Hagoromo:

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We know that it was the whole juubi that was sealed inside of Hagoromo (including the yet to exist gedou mazou and all), and that it wasn't the case that Hagoromo only sealed the juubi's chakara inside of him while sealing the mazou into the moon. We know that the mazou portion of the juubi was in fact inside of Hagoromo because Kurama states it (or at least implies it) in the following two scans:

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However, here is where the first contradiction/plot hole comes in. Black Zetsu states that the juubi was turned into the core of the chibaku tensei (via rikudou chibaku tensei) and sealed into the moon. Check out this scan for proof of this:

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Now, when did this sealing of the juubi into the moon take place? Did this take place at the end of Hagoromo's lifespan, or did it take place at the end of Hagoromo/Hamura's fight with the juubi and/or Kaguya?

Well, the following scan shows that Hagoromo and Hamura did activate rikudou chibaku tensei at the end of their fight with their mother:

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However, who/what were Hagoromo/Hamura sealing into the moon in the above scan? The juubi (monster form) or Kaguya (human form)?

Now, if it was Kaguya herself (and not the juubi), then this would imply that rikudou chibaku tensei had already been used once before prior to the point in time in which the juubi was sealed into the moon. In other words, even before the juubi was sealed into the moon, a moon would have already previously been created due to the sealing of Kaguya. If the moon had already been created before the juubi was sealed into it, then how exactly did the gedou mazou get up to the moon (and into the interior of it mind you)? We know that many years later, Madara would summon the mazou from the moon upon awakening the rinnegan. We also know that the Otsutsuki clan on the moon were supposed to be guarding the mazou. However, if Kaguya (human form) was sealed via rikudou chibaku tensei before the juubi was, then how did the juubi get inside of the moon.

You'd think that Hagoromo would have to use rikudou chibaku tensei a second time to seal the mazou inside of a moon at the end of his lifespan. However, this would result in the creation of a second moon, which we've heard nothing about. No character in Naruto has ever mentioned their earth having two moons or anything like that. People always say that the rikudou senin created "the moon (singular)" instead of "the moons (plural)".

Is it possible that at the end of his lifespan, Hagoromo just used some sort of spacetime jutsu to warp the mazou into the interior of the moon or something like that instead of creating a second moon? Possibly, but nothing like this was ever stated or shown.

Anyway, those are just the questions that emerge from the interpretation that Hagoromo and Hamura were sealing the humanoid Kaguya in the above scan (which by the way, also happens to be the path that the anime filler went with. The filler didn't even address the mazou).

Now if we instead assume that Hagoromo and Hamura were instead sealing the juubi (monster form) into the moon in the above scan, then that raises a different set of questions:

What happened to Hagoromo becoming the juubi's jinchuuriki? I've already proven via the first few scans of this thread that Hagoromo did in fact seal the whole juubi inside of himself. However, in the above scan, it looks like they are sealing it (the juubi) into the moon at the end of the fight (we know this is the end of the fight and not the end of Hagoromo's life span in the above scan because Hagoromo and Hamura look young in the above scan and not old and wrinkly like they later appear). When then, did the juubi get sealed inside of Hagoromo? What about the creation of the bijuus and the mazou? The creation of these things are supposed to have come after Hagoromo had already lived a long life as the juubi's jinchuuriki. As proven at the beginning of the thread, you can't say that Hagoromo and Hamura just sealed the mazou inside of the moon at the end of the fight, and sealed the juubi's chakara into Hagoromo because as shown earlier, Kurama noted that having the mazou inside of Hagoromo is what kept him alive after extracting the bijuus from himself.

In short, the question as to whether Hagoromo/Hamura sealed the humanoid Kaguya at the end of their fight, or the monstrous juubi creates a number of questions and plot inconsistencies.

What's more? Questions can be raised about who exactly the combatants of the fight were (on the Kaguya/juubi side of things). Namely:

Which of the following battles did Hagoromo and Hamura actually fight? Was it:

A. Hagoromo/Hamura vs Kaguya (humanoid form) and the juubi (monstrous) with the latter two combatants fighting separately, but as partners. (This is the option that the anime filler went with)

B. Hagoromo and Hamura vs juubi alone (insinuating that Kaguya herself was the juubi, and that the bros did not fight two opponents, but just one).

C. They first fought Kaguya (humanoid form) alone, and then at a later point they fought the juubi alone.

Now, if we go with option A and we assume that Kaguya herself was sealed into the moon via rikudou chibaku tensei while the juubi was sealed inside of Hagoromo (just like how the anime portrayed it), then that brings up the whole question about how did the mazou later get inside of the moon, and the whole two moons issue. To be honest, these same issues also come as a result of option C as well. I will make a certain acknowledgement though. Since Kaguya does have the ability to shift dimensions during the fight, if option A or C were to be the case, then it is possible that Hagoromo and Hamura did in fact seal humanoid Kaguya into the moon, but they did it in another dimension (as was the case with Naruto and Sasuke), while the juubi (mazou) was later sealed into the earth's moon at the end of Hagoromo's lifespan after Hagoromo had extracted and created the bijuus (which is why the earth only has one moon). That would be a way to make sense of it, although it would have been nice if the manga made it more clear that Kaguya was sealed inside of a moon inside of another dimension (since neither the manga nor the anime's depictions of the fight make it look as if they are fighting in one of Kaguya's dimensions), and that there were two fights that took place at different times (in the case of option C). Even though I give this acknowledgement, it should be noted that the anime filler totally missed its chance for these fixes since the anime (which went with option A) had the bros fight and seal Kaguya via rikudou chibaku tensei on earth (not in one of Kaguya's dimensions).

In the case of option B however, it would make more sense if Hagoromo and Hamura only fought the juubi alone (with Kaguya being the juubi) and sealed it inside of Hagoromo, and then at the end of Hagoromo's lifespan, Hagoromo extracted the bijuus from himself and then sealed the mazou inside of the moon. However, doing it this way would contradict the above scan's depiction of Hagoromo and Hamura deploying the rikudou chibaku tensei at the end of the fight (unless you are trying to tell me that in addition to sealing targets inside of moons, rikudou chibaku tensei can also be used to seal the juubi into someone, thus creating a juubi jinchuuriki). In other words, if the bros only fought the juubi (and not humanoid Kaguya) and they sealed the juubi inside of Hagoromo at the end of the fight, then who exactly were they using rikudou chibaku tensei on in the above scan?

Honestly, for years, I felt like option B was the correct case. I had interpreted the juubi as being the literal fusion of Kaguya and the divine tree (just as Gotenks is the fusion of Goten and Trunks). However, the anime went on to contradict this notion by picking option A. Based on that, and some discussions that I have had here on this base, I decided to go back and re-evaluate the scan that originally led me to believe the juubi to be the fusion between Kaguya and the divine tree. This scan:

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Despite what I thought before (which also happens to be what Naruto wiki and several other people think about it), it says here that the juubi is Kaguya's will. In other words, it could perhaps be interpreted as: Kaguya imposed her will onto the divine tree and morphed it into the juubi (as opposed to Kaguya actually being a part of the juubi herself).

That would explain how an Otsutsuki and their juubi could coexist and fight separately from each other (which would explain the possibilities of options A and C, as well as recent developments in the Boruto manga).

At this point though, I'm just not entirely sure.

Then, as if all of this wasn't confusing and convoluted enough, the Boruto manga has gone on to throw even the origins of the juubi and the divine tree into question.

We see above, that the juubi was supposed to either be Kaguya's will imposed onto the divine tree, or Kaguya herself mixed with the divine tree. In other words, both Kaguya and the divine tree were supposed to exist before the monstrous juubi ever did.

Now however, in the Boruto manga, Amado says that the juubi is a seedling that grows into the divine tree. This would imply that monstrous juubi actually comes before the divine tree. What happened though to the whole notion of the juubi being Kaguya's will or Kaguya herself? The juubi was supposed to only come into existence when Kaguya willed it to, but now it comes before the divine tree?

As one final note, the notion of the divine tree growing from the juubi is a direct retcon of the guidebook Retsu no Sho (which came with "The Last: Naruto the Movie") which stated that the divine tree grows as a result of large amounts of blood soaking into the earth after countless years of warfare amongst humans.

Man! Kishi really needs to get his juubi story straight.

What do you guys think about all of these Kaguya/Juubi/Divine Tree plot inconsistencies/mysteries, etc...

Please share your thoughts.
 
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HowDidIGetPrem

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i dont read comics a lot...

do comics have bullshits like in japanese mangas..like fillers ..annoying flashbacks..retcons..?and stuff like that???..
All of the few comics I've read have been super straightfoward & consistent. Most of them don't go long enough to start retconning unless it's some reboot, and most don't care to insert filler cause, again, they're short anyway. I haven't read much though so..
 
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Quite a read. Spoiler text the main points so they are easier to digest.

Good read. Here's what I've gathered though:

Retcons. Loads of them. Kishi has a knack for them. It shouldn't be a surprise to see him changing the direction last min.
(See gaiden. The entire storyline was setting up Karin as Sarada's biological mother. In the end, it was still inconclusive and they just let Sarada give up and consider Sakura her mother, blood related or not. Only account that we got was Karin's own word).

Whether he did that to troll or a last second ditch effort to satiate the fans of Sakura, doesn't matter. 10 chapters were basically meaningless.

As for the topic:

There are 2 Rikudou Sennin. So anything regarding to RS can be applied to either Hagoromo or Hamura.
These are from 3rd party accounts, in that setting anyways. So they don't know exactly which one did what. They are basically the same person as they are both Sages.

The fact that Hamura lived in a secluded life in the moon and there are many years later that he and his people faded away from history.
Much like Senju and Uchiha brother wars. Only the tablet made by Black Zetsu remained as the only hint of a bygone time.
BZ's creation also served as a hindrance for as there are many retcons about him.

Either way, he is a sly character that is an unreliable source. You only hear what he wants you to hear.

So from my understanding, chakra has 3 parts: Physical, Mental, Nature.

Bijuu is the chakra culminated via senjutsu by the God Tree. It basically takes in all the life energy of the planet (it acts like a giant parasite).

Dispersed chakra will take form because of the 3 types. Have a large floating enough chakra (nature), it'll materialize and gain sentience.
There are animals that attained higher existence like the Slug, Toad, and Snek. They grew in size, managed to be intelligent and become Sages of their own style of affinity. (Basically Shinto religion, the personification of nature)

Bijuu is the chakra of the God Tree. I figured that Kaguya upon giving birth to Hagoromo and Hamura (physical beings) also separated a chunk of her chakra, which then gained sentience (or already was due to the God Tree).

Based on what Madara did, I think Kaguya became the Jin of it instead of actually just eating the fruit alone. This is one of the possible way of which the Bijuu can actually exist as a separate entity of Kaguya and would be in line with the manga scans.

If we apply this, it would make sense that the Bijuu has its own sentience as she took a living being in instead of just taking its chakra (like the petra path).

Tailed Beasts are basically a huge chunk of chakra that materialized and gained sentience (like ninjutsu but became thinking and took shape).

We see Isshiki has his own personal Juubi, meaning that he had his own chakra that he took from somewhere (most likely his own) and it just sat there until it took shape or was given shape to begin with.

So the Twin Rikudou Sennin most likely just separated Kaguya into her 2 basic chakra type: Mental and Physical (since Nature is not from within but from without).

At the end of the sealing, Kaguya was separated into 2 beings, her physical vessel: Gedo Mazou and her chakra: Juubi.

Hagoromo took in her Juubi. Hamura took her vessel.
At the very end, not wanting to have his children to fight over the chakra, he split the Juubi into 9 ways which gave the Bijuus.

Hamura most likely had the Gedo Mazou within him as well but did died and locked the Gedo Mazou in the Tenseigan Orb or whatever.. It's in the moon under lock and key. Only his or equivalent of his power can access the Gedo Mazou.

The moon is actually created by Hamura. Only the core which houses the Gedo Mazou was the one that sealed the vessel.
He also has a portal to Earth to which his people can use to come and go
(This is why I hypothesized that Hyugas and Uzumakis are his main and branch families that migrated).

The war broke out when Madara successfully attained power equal to Hamura. Note that majority of the people living in both Moon and Earth had only stories of what happened back then.

It is most likely that they do not know about the powers of Hamura (from Earth) and Hagoromo (from Moon).
The moon people only had one job and that is to protect the Gedo Mazou.

So the theory revolves around Kaguya and the Juubi being 2 different entities. Juubi being the God Tree and Kaguya not only took the chakra fruit but also the God Tree.

She was then sealed by Hagoromo and Hamura. Dividing her into 2 parts, vessel and chakra. Each took their own affinity.

Gedo Mazou was locked and buried, Juubi was split even further but not so much that it would be easy to just pool them in again.

Moon was created on top of the Chibaku Tensei.

Hamura's existence faded away from Earth's history, same goes for Hagoromo in Moon's history. Only thing that they knew was the on going war that the 2 brothers started (Indra and Asura). Which is about Ninjutsu vs Ninshu.

They really didn't care either as it was the fate of Earth's way of governance. Only until the Gedo Mazou was stolen and the threat of the Kaguya's reincarnation and the honor of being Hamura's job to them being tainted.
 

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I'll make it short and stick with the questions:
(A) Anime. That was Anime Filler and deviates from the Manga.
(B) It makes more sense as it supports Black Zetsu's claims.
(C) If they fought Kaguya in her humanoid form, then they would have realized that Kaguya's change in Juubi, thus theSage would have said something about it.
 
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I'll make it short and stick with the questions:
(A) Anime. That was Anime Filler and deviates from the Manga.
(B) It makes more sense as it supports Black Zetsu's claims.
(C) If they fought Kaguya in her humanoid form, then they would have realized that Kaguya's change in Juubi, thus theSage would have said something about it.
Yeah, I definitely see what you are saying. Option B of Hagoromo and Hamura only fighting the juubi alone (not realizing that Kaguya herself is the juubi) also makes more sense of the fact that Hagoromo believed the juubi to be the divine tree fighting to reclaim its chakara fruit, as well as the fact that in the panel in which Hagoromo says this, Kaguya (humanoid form) is nowhere to be seen as Hagoromo and Hamura fight the juubi.

The problem that I pointed out with this option though is:

Hagoromo and Hamura clearly activated rikudou chibaku tensei at the end of that fight, which would mean that they sealed their opponent (be it Kaguya or the juubi) into the moon at the end of that fight. If the opponent was the juubi however, and if the bros sealed the juubi into the moon at the end of that fight, then when did Hagoromo become the juubi's jinchuuriki? Subsequently, how would the bijuus and the mazou ever come into existence if Hagoromo and Hamura immediately sealed the juubi into the moon at the end of the fight instead of into Hagoromo?
 
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Honestly I got lost durnig teh end of Naruto so I don't know if there are plto holes or not I f I had time I would read your text it seems you are on to something.
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READ IT READ ALLL OF IT
Then tell me what it says.
TLDR version:

Let's take this step by step

1. Hagoromo and Hamura fought the juubi. We know this much.

2. Hagoromo is said to have sealed the juubi inside of himself at the end of that fight, thus becoming the juubi jinchuuriki.

However...

3. Statements and flashbacks by Black Zetsu and Kaguya depict Hagoromo and Hamura activating rikudou chibaku tensei at the end of that fight, thus sealing the juubi into the moon.

Do you see the contradiction here?

If Hagoromo and Hamura sealed the juubi inside of the moon at the end of the fight, then when/how would Hagoromo have ever become the juubi's jinchuuriki? How would the tailed beasts and the mazou ever come into existence?

Conversely, if Hagoromo sealed the juubi inside of himself at the end of the fight, then who or what did Hagoromo and Hamura use rikudou chibaku tensei on? Who or what got sealed into the moon at the end of that fight? Even if you say that it was Kaguya herself that got sealed into the moon, and the juubi got sealed into Hagoromo, that begs the question of: How did the gedou mazou get into the moon then? Wouldn't Hagoromo have to use rikudou chibaku tensei a second time to seal the mazou inside the moon? If that's the case, then shouldn't the earth have two moons?
 
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Yeah, I definitely see what you are saying. Option B of Hagoromo and Hamura only fighting the juubi alone (not realizing that Kaguya herself is the juubi) also makes more sense of the fact that Hagoromo believed the juubi to be the divine tree fighting to reclaim its chakara fruit, as well as the fact that in the panel in which Hagoromo says this, Kaguya (humanoid form) is nowhere to be seen as Hagoromo and Hamura fight the juubi.

The problem that I pointed out with this option though is:

Hagoromo and Hamura clearly activated rikudou chibaku tensei at the end of that fight, which would mean that they sealed their opponent (be it Kaguya or the juubi) into the moon at the end of that fight. If the opponent was the juubi however, and if the bros sealed the juubi into the moon at the end of that fight, then when did Hagoromo become the juubi's jinchuuriki? Subsequently, how would the bijuus and the mazou ever come into existence if Hagoromo and Hamura immediately sealed the juubi into the moon at the end of the fight instead of into Hagoromo?
I get what you are saying, apparently it was already explained in the Manga. the Sage sealed TenTails in him (reference the first scan you provided in the Thread). Upon his deathbed, he separated the TenTails into 9 Bijuu and sealed the Husk into the Moon (Naruto Chapter 467).

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I get what you are saying, apparently it was already explained in the Manga. the Sage sealed TenTails in him. Upon his deathbed, he separated the TenTails into 9 Bijuu and sealed the Husk into the Moon.

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Yeah, that's what Obito explained during the 5 kage summit arc. That's also what makes the most sense. However, there are some things that must be taken into consideration.

1. Despite how much sense the above explanation makes, the manga clearly shows via Black Zetsu and Kaguya's words/flashbacks that six paths chibaku tensei was used at the end of Hagoromo and Hamura's battle against their mother and/or the juubi. Therefore, something had to be sealed into the moon at the end of that battle, since we know that rikudou chibaku tensei seals things inside of moons. If it was humanoid Kaguya that was sealed into the moon at the end of that battle, then that brings up the issue of how did the gedou mazou get into the moon (and potentially the issue of there needing to be two moons). On the flip side, if the juubi was the one who was sealed into the moon at the end of that battle, then that contradicts the notion of Hagoromo becoming the juubi's jinchuuriki.

2. Notice that all of the scans and information that I am using come directly from Hagoromo or Black Zetsu/Kaguya? These people are the primary sources for this information since they were the ones actually involved. Obito and Madara on the other hand got their information thousands of years after the fact from a tablet that had already been altered by Black Zetsu to begin with. Considering that whole thousands of years time span, it would make sense if the stories pertaining to the sage got distorted over time and if some of Madara and Obito's information was inaccurate. In fact, we know that some of Madara and Obito's information was inaccurate because Madara told Hashirama that the juubi was the divine tree trying to take its chakara back (although I will admit that this is even what Hagoromo himself believed). Madara was also fooled into believing that the infinite tsukuyomi would save the Uchiha and the world, when in reality it would turn everyone into White Zetsu slaves for Kaguya. There's also the fact that Madara and Obito most likely didn't even know of the existence of Hamura.

In short, I'm saying that even though Obito's explanation makes the most sense (and honestly should have been the route Kishi went with), the fact that Madara and Obito are non-primary sources from thousands of years after the fact (as well as the fact that Black Zetsu deceived and manipulated them via the tablet and withheld information from them) reduces the credibility of information from them and kind of makes Obito's explanation from the 5 kage summit disregardable.

Even if we don't disregard it, there's still the whole rikudou chibaku tensei issue.
 

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Yeah, that's what Obito explained during the 5 kage summit arc. That's also what makes the most sense. However, there are some things that must be taken into consideration.

1. Despite how much sense the above explanation makes, the manga clearly shows via Black Zetsu and Kaguya's words/flashbacks that six paths chibaku tensei was used at the end of Hagoromo and Hamura's battle against their mother and/or the juubi. Therefore, something had to be sealed into the moon at the end of that battle, since we know that rikudou chibaku tensei seals things inside of moons. If it was humanoid Kaguya that was sealed into the moon at the end of that battle, then that brings up the issue of how did the gedou mazou get into the moon (and potentially the issue of there needing to be two moons). On the flip side, if the juubi was the one who was sealed into the moon at the end of that battle, then that contradicts the notion of Hagoromo becoming the juubi's jinchuuriki.

2. Notice that all of the scans and information that I am using come directly from Hagoromo or Black Zetsu/Kaguya? These people are the primary sources for this information since they were the ones actually involved. Obito and Madara on the other hand got their information thousands of years after the fact from a tablet that had already been altered by Black Zetsu to begin with. Considering that whole thousands of years time span, it would make sense if the stories pertaining to the sage got distorted over time and if some of Madara and Obito's information was inaccurate. In fact, we know that some of Madara and Obito's information was inaccurate because Madara told Hashirama that the juubi was the divine tree trying to take its chakara back (although I will admit that this is even what Hagoromo himself believed). Madara was also fooled into believing that the infinite tsukuyomi would save the Uchiha and the world, when in reality it would turn everyone into White Zetsu slaves for Kaguya. There's also the fact that Madara and Obito most likely didn't even know of the existence of Hamura.

In short, I'm saying that even though Obito's explanation makes the most sense (and honestly should have been the route Kishi went with), the fact that Madara and Obito are non-primary sources from thousands of years after the fact (as well as the fact that Black Zetsu deceived and manipulated them via the tablet and withheld information from them) reduces the credibility of information from them and kind of makes Obito's explanation from the 5 kage summit disregardable.

Even if we don't disregard it, there's still the whole rikudou chibaku tensei issue.

1. You can't base it off a flashback. When the Manga already explained how the TenTails was split and sealed in the moon.

[BOLD] You keep saying that. The scan you first provided tells you that theSage sealed the Tentails inside himself.

2. What? It does not matter who said it. Those parts do not contradict each other.
 

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If Hagoromo and Hamura sealed the juubi inside of the moon at the end of the fight, then when/how would Hagoromo have ever become the juubi's jinchuuriki? How would the tailed beasts and the mazou ever come into existence?

Moon takes her chakra out, becoming Juubi
Sun takes her vessel out, becoming Gedo Mazou.

There is no contradiction there. Gedo Mazou is guarded by Hamura and his people. Juubi was split into 9 parts by Hagoromo and scattered.

So long as they were separated, Kaguya is at bay.

I think I've explained this already.
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, then that brings up the issue of how did the gedou mazou get into the moon (and potentially the issue of there needing to be two moons).
The moon is Hamura's creation. The core is the chibaku tensei (of course, there's most likely an already existing moon prior to her sealing).

Still, Hamura is Rikudou Sennin and has the power to create, destroy, manipulate. They even made a note of it when they infiltrated the moon.

Moon is NOT JUST the chibaku tensei. The moon HOUSED the chibaku tensei.
 
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1. You can't base it off a flashback. When the Manga already explained how the TenTails was split and sealed in the moon.

[BOLD] You keep saying that. The scan you first provided tells you that theSage sealed the Tentails inside himself.

2. What? It does not matter who said it. Those parts do not contradict each other.
I am going to respond to these points in reverse order:

2. It does matter who said it since Hagoromo/Kaguya/Black Zetsu are primary sources while Madara and Obito were secondary sources who were already deceived and manipulated to begin with.

[Bold] Yes, the first scan I posted tells that Hagoromo sealed the juubi inside of himself, and the second to last scan that I posted tells that Hagoromo and Hamura used rikudou chibaku tensei at the end of the fight. My whole point is that the two notions directly contradict each other.

1. You can base it on a flashback when that flashback is a memory from Kaguya herself (the one who got sealed). That is way more reliable than some dude from thousands of years later who read an altered tablet.

I'm on mobile right now, but in a little bit (after I eat) I am going to post some more scans that also show that the timeline of events for Obito's explanation and the timeline of events for Black Zetsu's explanation contradict each other.
 

Yursix

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I am going to respond to these points in reverse order:

2. It does matter who said it since Hagoromo/Kaguya/Black Zetsu are primary sources while Madara and Obito were secondary sources who were already deceived and manipulated to begin with.

[Bold] Yes, the first scan I posted tells that Hagoromo sealed the juubi inside of himself, and the second to last scan that I posted tells that Hagoromo and Hamura used rikudou chibaku tensei at the end of the fight. My whole point is that the two notions directly contradict each other.

1. You can base it on a flashback when that flashback is a memory from Kaguya herself (the one who got sealed). That is way more reliable than some dude from thousands of years later who read an altered tablet.

I'm on mobile right now, but in a little bit (after I eat) I am going to post some more scans that also show that the timeline of events for Obito's explanation and the timeline of events for Black Zetsu's explanation contradict each other.

The flashback you are referring too is nothing but an image , you are providing no context. Put the image in context, you clearly see Black Zetsu talking about TenTails as the "being" and not in the context of it being sealed like you are suggesting.


Primary and Secondary Source? Why are you are looking at it that way? If you follow the story it goes like this:

It was the Sage who wrote the Tablet, Madara said he read from the Tablet and told Obito, but then Black Zetsu came and revealed he rewrote the text.

All of it is information from that Manga from the beginning to the end. You are trying to find a pothole where there is none.
 
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The flashback you are referring too is nothing but an image , you are providing no context. Put the image in context, you clearly see Black Zetsu talking about TenTails as the "being" and not in the context of it being sealed like you are suggesting.


Primary and Secondary Source? Why are you are looking at it that way? If you follow the story it goes like this:

It was the Sage who wrote the Tablet, Madara said he read from the Tablet and told Obito, but then Black Zetsu came and revealed he rewrote the text.

All of it is information from that Manga from the beginning to the end. You are trying to find a pothole where there is none.
That image that you claim that I put out of context speaks for itself. It is Kaguya herself remembering being sealed by a young Hagoromo and Hamura.

Just to make sure that we are both talking about the same image (because I honestly think that you are referring to a different image from the one that I am referencing), I am talking about this image:

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Now, can you honestly sit there and tell me that Hagoromo and Hamura are not using rikudou chibaku tensei in the above image (especially considering that we see Naruto and Sasuke doing the exact same thing in the lower image, and we know for sure that this was when Naruto and Sasuke sealed Kaguya away)?

Also, primary and secondary sources do matter. You acting as if it doesn't matter on the grounds that "all of it is information from the manga" is like insinuating that a character can never be wrong (even when we know that canonically in universe, said character was deceived or manipulated). I get that characters speak for the author, but at the same time, there are times where a character is revealed to have been misled, deceived, to have misunderstood, etc... We have seen so many instances of this in the Naruto manga.

Examples:

Itachi was convinced that Madara stole Izuna's eyes and that Madara was the one who attacked Konoha with Kurama and helped out with the Uchiha massacre. He told all of this information to Sasuke, and to us the readers. This was "information from the manga" as you put it. Yet, we later find out that Itachi was simply wrong. Madara did not steal Izuna's eyes. Izuna willingly gave his eyes to Madara as he was about to die. Also, it was Obito, not Madara, who attacked Konoha with Kurama and who helped out with the Uchiha clan massacre. Itachi (along with most people) was simply deceived by Obito.

Going even further back in the series, Kakashi once said that the sharingan was derived from the byakugan. Was that not "information from the manga" as well? Yet, we came to learn that this is not correct. Yes, both dojutsu have origins with the Otsutsuki clan, but the sharingan did not derive from the byakugan. It was a dilution of Kaguya's rinnesharingan which she awakened as a result of eating the chakara fruit.

Even Hagoromo himself has been proven to be wrong on occasion or unaware of something, as he was not even aware that Kaguya was the juubi. He believed that the juubi was the divine tree that was fighting to reclaim its fruit.


So yeah... It definitely matters whether the character is a primary or secondary source, or whether or not that character was manipulated/deceived by someone, or whether there is just something that the character doesn't know, etc...

Anyway, let me show you how the timeline of events for Obito's explanation and the timeline of events for Black Zetsu's explanation contradict each other:

According to Obito, Hagoromo fought the juubi, sealed it inside of himself, and then on his death bed he split the juubi's chakara into the 9 bijuus and sealed the mazou into the moon. Now keep in mind that the sealing into the moon was supposed to happen on his death bed (when Hagoromo would have been very old and wrinkly like in the following image):

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Now, let's start from the creation of Black Zetsu. We know that Black Zetsu was created before Indra and Asura were born (or at the very least long before Hagoromo was an elderly man on his death bed) because of this sequence of scans:
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Black Zetsu says that Kaguya was sealed by her children, but just before the seal took hold, Kaguya created him (Black Zetsu).

Then, in the next scan, it says that Hagoromo neither knew that the juubi was actually Kaguya, nor did he know that Black Zetsu was secretly working to restore Kaguya.

Then in the third scan, it says "around then, ignorant of all this, Hagoromo was raising Indra and Asura" (as the picture shows a young Hagoromo, not an elderly Hagoromo, and a young Indra and Asura).

Now, let's focus on this line: "around then, ignorant of all this, Hagoromo was raising Indra and Asura"

The "all this" that Black Zetsu referred to was the fact that the juubi was Kaguya and that Black Zetsu was working to restore Kaguya (as stated in the previous scan). Now, it says that Hagoromo was raising Indra and Asura while being ignorant of "all this".

This directly implies that Black Zetsu had already existed and was already working to restore Kaguya when Hagoromo was raising Indra and Asura (or in other words, when Hagoromo was still young and not an elderly man on his death bed).

So... Now we know that Black Zetsu existed when Hagoromo was still young. Now let us recall when exactly Black Zetsu came into existence.

He came into existence just as Kaguya was sealed. This means that Kaguya was sealed when Hagoromo was still young.

Now, in what way was Kaguya sealed?

Well, this panel right here clearly indicates that Kaguya was sealed using the yin and yang seals - that is to say rikudou chibaku tensei

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What can we conclude from this:

We can conclude that rikudou chibaku tensei was employed when Hagoromo was still a young man. And of course, this scan directly shows this:

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Now, what does rikudou chibaku tensei do? Does it create moons or does it create jinchuuriki?

It creates moons.

The usage of rikudou chibaku tensei when Hagoromo was still young is a direct contradiction to Obito's notion that Hagoromo was old and on his death bed when the moon was created.

As one final note, I have a question for you:

If you still do not put any stock into the above scan, then please tell me what you think Hamura's role in sealing Kaguya actually was. I ask this because Madara and Obito have already shown that the process for sealing the juubi within oneself does not require two people, nor does it require the yin and yang seal. Six paths ten tails coffin seal only requires a rinnegan and a simple hand seal.
 
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