Guy has a better combat record than Kakashi

[Gèckö]

I got a k.d.r of 2.55

try hard

kakashi>Gai
/ Thread:scorps:
take that -logic-xd^

 

[EliteKakashi]

Guy can use Ninjutsu. That's why he got a 3. Lee on the other hand... he can't use Ninjutsu, that's why he got a 0.5.

What? How does that have to do with anything I said? I never said Gai couldn't use ninjutsu. I simply said he doesn't use it, short of summoning his turtle.

Therefor, going off the logic of something being useless in the fight between them, you would have to remove his ninjutsu score.

 

[Οdin]

What? How does that have to do with anything I said? I never said Gai couldn't use ninjutsu. I simply said he doesn't use it, short of summoning his turtle.

Therefor, going off the logic of something being useless in the fight between them, you would have to remove his ninjutsu score.

Eh... ok. But you have to admit that Guy can defeat Kakashi. Speed is very advantageous in battle.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Eh... ok. But you have to admit that Guy can defeat Kakashi.

I did. I said Gai in Gates > Kakashi and most ninja in the manga. I've always said Gai is 2nd or 3rd in Konoha in terms of the strongest(only behind Naruto and maybe Tsunade).

Though, where do you get genjutsu being useless vs Gai? Him not looking in to the eyes of a sharingan user doesn't make him immune to genjutsu, if that's where you get that from.

 

[Οdin]

I did. I said Gai in Gates > Kakashi and most ninja in the manga. I've always said Gai is 2nd or 3rd in Konoha in terms of the strongest(only behind Naruto and maybe Tsunade).

Though, where do you get genjutsu being useless vs Gai? Him not looking in to the eyes of a sharingan user doesn't make him immune to genjutsu, if that's where you get that from.

"In his rivalry with Kakashi, Guy has developed an effective counter against Sharingan-users: by focusing on their feet, Guy can both predict the movements of the enemy and negate the Sharingan's necessity of having eye-contact for genjutsu techniques." <--- Pretty much where I got it from.

 

[Yo pappy]

"In his rivalry with Kakashi, Guy has developed an effective counter against Sharingan-users: by focusing on their feet, Guy can both predict the movements of the enemy and negate the Sharingan's necessity of having eye-contact for genjutsu techniques." <--- Pretty much where I got it from.

Kakashi doesn't need to make eye contact with his Sharingan to put someone in a genjutsu. He can use hand seals just like Kurenai.

 

[EliteKakashi]

"In his rivalry with Kakashi, Guy has developed an effective counter against Sharingan-users: by focusing on their feet, Guy can both predict the movements of the enemy and negate the Sharingan's necessity of having eye-contact for genjutsu techniques." <--- Pretty much where I got it from.

So avoiding eyesight with a sharingan user = immune to all genjutsu?

You do know that characters, including Itachi himself, who that statement was used against, can use genjutsu without eye contact, right?

 

[Bogard]

Soooo many dumbasses in this thread.

Databook Score:

Kakashi: 34.5
Guy: 31.5

Since genjutsu is pointless against Guy... you have to -4 Kakashi's overall score.

New Score:

Kakashi: 30.5
Guy: 31.5

You've forgotten to remove Gais points in genjutsu also:shrug:

 

[Οdin]

Kakashi doesn't need to make eye contact with his Sharingan to put someone in a genjutsu. He can use hand seals just like Kurenai.

So avoiding eyesight with a sharingan user = immune to all genjutsu?

You do know that characters, including Itachi himself, who that statement was used against, can use genjutsu without eye contact, right?

Have you seen Kakashi or Itachi use those types of genjutsu against high-level Ninja?

You've forgotten to remove Gais points in genjutsu also:shrug:

Kakashi can still use genjutsu. The only reason I kept them for Guy was because he can release non-Sharingan genjutsu. There was a page mentioning something about Guy being able to do that, but I forgot where it was.

But here is a quote from Wiki. Not sure if you believe it or not.

"Unlike Lee, who specialises in taijutsu because he cannot use ninjutsu and genjutsu, Guy is fully capable of using the other two forms of ninja abilities, as he is proficient enough to dispel a high-level genjutsu."

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Edit: I'm only trying to be fair here. Too many people believe that Kakashi > Guy just because of his Sharingan.

 

[realobito1]

Eight Gates = Gai wins. Kakashi can't match his speed, not even in 7 Gates. He's too strong and too fast. Btw I like Kakashi better, just trying to be realistic.

Lets be realistic ninjutsu beats taijutsu.most ninja study ninjutsu for that very purpose. Iam sure they would just practice taijutsu otherwise. Kakashi is a ninjutsu expert and guy is a taijutsu expert. Kakashi wins. Plus kakashi is Equally skilled in taijutsu and has skill in genjutsu. Plus he has better summoning. And as far as trump cards go kamui is totally better than eight gates. I would say guy would at least have to be in the 6th gate to match high level ninjutsu and before that could happen kakashi would send him to another dimension. Just Trying to be realistic.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Have you seen Kakashi or Itachi use those types of genjutsu against high-level Ninja?

Completely irrelevant to the point. Kurenai used a genjutsu on Itachi, that would have been successful if not for Itachi's sharingan. Kishimoto said in a databook that Kurenai's genjutsu was on par with Itachi's, which was including his sharingan abilities.

The point is not looking in to a sharingan user's eyes does not mean he can't be caught in a genjutsu.

Kakashi can still use genjutsu. The only reason I kept them for Guy was because he can release non-Sharingan genjutsu. There was a page mentioning something about Guy being able to do that, but I forgot where it was.

But here is a quote from Wiki. Not sure if you believe it or not.

"Unlike Lee, who specialises in taijutsu because he cannot use ninjutsu and genjutsu, Guy is fully capable of using the other two forms of ninja abilities, as he is proficient enough to dispel a high-level genjutsu."

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Edit: I'm only trying to be fair here. Too many people believe that Kakashi > Guy just because of his Sharingan.

That was when Gai dispelled the genjutsu cast by Kabuto during the chuunin exams, something Sakura, Shikamaru and leaf chuunin(and obviously the other jounin) did as well.

It was never stated to be hard to dispell, which should be quite clearly noted by Sakura and Shikamaru dispelling it, it's just the fact of noticing it before you get caught in it.

Spoiler

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[Bogard]

Kakashi can still use genjutsu. The only reason I kept them for Guy was because he can release non-Sharingan genjutsu. There was a page mentioning something about Guy being able to do that, but I forgot where it was.

But here is a quote from Wiki. Not sure if you believe it or not.

"Unlike Lee, who specialises in taijutsu because he cannot use ninjutsu and genjutsu, Guy is fully capable of using the other two forms of ninja abilities, as he is proficient enough to dispel a high-level genjutsu."

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Edit: I'm only trying to be fair here. Too many people believe that Kakashi > Guy just because of his Sharingan.

Yes but problem is that when you say you kept points for Guy cuz he can release genjutsu, Kakashi can also do the same but you still remove all his points

Not trying to downgrade Gai, just trying to use logic. Anyway i always saw them as equal

 

[Yo pappy]

"Unlike Lee, who specialises in taijutsu because he cannot use ninjutsu and genjutsu, Guy is fully capable of using the other two forms of ninja abilities, as he is proficient enough to dispel a high-level genjutsu."

The only problem I have with this is that to get out of a genjutsu you must disrupt your chakra flow, in other words stop it and start it back up again right? If Guy is in gates chakra is constantly flowing trough him, and the only way to stop that is to close them. If that were to happen that would leave guy in an extremely vulnerable position as he'd be both exhausted, and in severe pain.

 

[Οdin]

Completely irrelevant to the point. Kurenai used a genjutsu on Itachi, that would have been successful if not for Itachi's sharingan. Kishimoto said in a databook that Kurenai's genjutsu was on par with Itachi's, which was including his sharingan abilities.

The point is not looking in to a sharingan user's eyes does not mean he can't be caught in a genjutsu.




That was when Gai dispelled the genjutsu cast by Kabuto during the chuunin exams, something Sakura, Shikamaru and leaf chuunin(and obviously the other jounin) did as well.

It was never stated to be hard to dispell, which should be quite clearly noted by Sakura and Shikamaru dispelling it, it's just the fact of noticing it before you get caught in it.

Spoiler

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Yeah, but you're talking about Kurenai. She's a master with genjutsu. The databook states that her genjutsu skills rival those of Itachi's. You really can't bring her into this because her genjutsu skills are way above Kakashi's

Edit: Kabuto's Genjutsu.

"A powerful genjutsu that generates a fluttering rain of sleep-inducing, illusory white feathers. Whomever sees them as they fall, piling up and covering the whole target area will experience Eden-like bliss and fall into a state of tranquil slumber. No matter how much one resists the hypnotic spell, the desire to sleep is instinctive, and there's no fighting it. However, an experienced shinobi will be able to dispel the genjutsu before it takes effect."

A-Rank.

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Yes but problem is that when you say you kept points for Guy cuz he can release genjutsu, Kakashi can also do the same but you still remove all his points

Not trying to downgrade Gai, just trying to use logic. Anyway i always saw them as equal

Guy has not been shown to cast genjutsu. The reason I took them away was because there's no reason for him to have them. If Guy had the ability to cast genjutsu, then I would have never made that fair change.

The only problem I have with this is that to get out of a genjutsu you must disrupt your chakra flow, in other words stop it and start it back up again right? If Guy is in gates chakra is constantly flowing trough him, and the only way to stop that is to close them. If that were to happen that would leave guy in an extremely vulnerable position as he'd be both exhausted, and in severe pain.

You do have a point. But can't he just activate them again? There's really no prep time for them... that I know of.

 

[realobito1]

Deducting points is terrible logic. from what we have been shown and what has been said guy uses taijutsu. With sharingan one can predict and counter the movements of even faster opponents. Just look at naruto and sasuke fight.

 

[Mrmojo8484]

Eight Gates = Gai wins. Kakashi can't match his speed, not even in 7 Gates. He's too strong and too fast. Btw I like Kakashi better, just trying to be realistic.

WTS lightning release clone. PST to buy.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Yeah, but you're talking about Kurenai. She's a master with genjutsu. The databook states that her genjutsu skills rival those of Itachi's. You really can't bring her into this because her genjutsu skills are way above Kakashi's

Like I said..that's not my point. My point is genjutsu can be cast without eye contact...you said Gai was immune to genjutsu. He is clearly not.

 

[Yo pappy]

You do have a point. But can't he just activate them again? There's really no prep time for them... that I know of.

Doesn't seem like it. If that were the case after beating Kisame he should have been able to re-activate them, but that's not what happened.

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[Οdin]

Like I said..that's not my point. My point is genjutsu can be cast without eye contact...you said Gai was immune to genjutsu. He is clearly not.

He was able to dispell an A-Rank genjutsu. Look at my edit.

Deducting points is terrible logic. from what we have been shown and what has been said guy uses taijutsu. With sharingan one can predict and counter the movements of even faster opponents. Just look at naruto and sasuke fight.

Only reason I did it was because Kakashi's regular genjutsu are probably not strong enough to affect Guy when using his gates. I was only trying to be fair.

 

[EliteKakashi]

He was able to dispell an A-Rank genjutsu. Look at my edit.

So did Sakura, Shikamaru, Kakashi, bunch of leaf chuunin... does that make them immune to genjutsu? No. It just means they noticed the genjutsu and dispelled it. There are genjutsu that don't have the obvious effects that tell you it's a genjutsu..such as the finger genjutsu used on Naruto by Itachi. And despite Jiraiya having trained Naruto to dispell genjutsu, he tried, yet couldn't dispell it. Sakura and Chiyo brought him out of it.

It had two phases of it. First it tried to put Naruto to sleep, then when he resisted and attempted to dispell it, he messed with him psychologically with the genjutsu.