Guy, Bending Air or Space? Viz Confirms which one

[Owarij]

Madara had seeing his attack coming. No one can see a distorting space attack what so ever. So, no.

? I'm talking about he mass he gained after unlocking the 8 Gate and unleashing his chakra. A Minor space distortion specifically around him in no way would affect his opponents eyesight. Gaining relative mass would not serve his speed in a positive manner, it would ony make him slower than he would have been without it. Though it would significantly increase the damage of his blow.

Saying its impossible to see a distorting space attack is as nonsensical as saying we can't see planets

 

[BenjerminGaye]

I want to go down in history as the person that coined st taijutsu.

 

[Stxluciferr]

I want to go down in history as the person that coined st taijutsu.

Indeed good sir indeed

 

[Bronze]

? I'm talking about he mass he gained after unlocking the 8 Gate and unleashing his chakra. A Minor space distortion specifically around him in no way would affect his opponents eyesight. Gaining relative mass would not serve his speed in a positive manner, it would ony make him slower than he would have been without it. Though it would significantly increase the damage of his blow.

Saying its impossible to see a distorting space attack is as nonsensical as saying we can't see planets

This principle is false, because Gai is gaining infinite mass. Since he is gaining infinite mass, his speed would also be infinite. If you use any formula of gravity, it would equal infinite for Gai. For example:

Force = Mass x acceleration

Since Gai's mass infinite, thus the force he is generating is also infinite, which would mean his speed as well. Anything infinite times/divide/add/subtract, the answer will equal infinite. You cannot see an infinite attack coming at all, but Madara have [

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]. Therefore, he could not have possibly distorted space at all.

Its also the fact, the distance between Gai and Madara was close range. So, I have all the rights to say its an impossible, and you should know it yourself. As I previously said, if Gai is distorting space, it would look in the fashion as Kamui. All he did is twist the air, hence the pile of shock wave.

 

[Owarij]

Since he is gaining infinite mass, his speed would also be infinite.

Completely Wrong.

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Read the entire thing.
Then something on Kinetic energy , Rest and Relative mass

 

[shelke]

I would still say this looks like a shockwave. How much chakra did he release that he began to gain gravitational pull? The Gates do not magically intensify chakra, they simply open the flood gates to the Gates. This is why what gai uses are called Gates in the first place - as he's capable of removing the limiters / gates on the 8 main Chakra Gates.

 

[Bronze]

Completely Wrong.

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Read the entire thing.
Then something on Kinetic energy , Rest and Relative mass

Or, you can quote what it says cause I am not going to read all of it. Already took some of it in physics. And lol, you cant measure infinite.

 

[Owarij]

Or, you can quote what it says cause I am not going to read all of it. Already took some of it in physics. And lol, you cant measure infinite.

Which is why the speed of light is theoretical. Kinetic energy is the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. As the relative speed of an object increases, the mass also increases, Thus the kinetic energy needed to move the object will become more and more

Theoretically, if an object was to move at 186,000 miles per second(Speed of Light), its mass becomes infinite. However, an object can never be truly accelerated to SOL as some energy which is used to accelerate it will always add to its mass thereby requiring additional energy to accelerate the object at the same rate. Hence, an infinite amount of energy would be required to accelerate an object to the speed of light. Which is represented mathematically as

E = (γ-1)mc^2 where E is the Kinetic Energy of a moving body and c is the speed of light

In this case. The arguent isn't that Gai has gathered such a speed that he has gained an intense mass.
It's that he has gathered such a mass through his chakra, that space is bending around him.
We already know chakra has mass. Everything has mass. And that it can become dense and heavier

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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And that chakra can become heavy and dense

Gai even , In the same page pointed out that his Chakra was something to be acknowledged

 

[MightGai]

Why are you still even arguing about this feat?.

 

[Bronze]

Which is why the speed of light is theoretical. Kinetic energy is the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. As the relative speed of an object increases, the mass also increases, Thus the kinetic energy needed to move the object will become more and more

Theoretically, if an object was to move at 186,000 miles per second(Speed of Light), its mass becomes infinite. However, an object can never be truly accelerated to SOL as some energy which is used to accelerate it will always add to its mass thereby requiring additional energy to accelerate the object at the same rate. Hence, an infinite amount of energy would be required to accelerate an object to the speed of light. Which is represented mathematically as

E = (γ-1)mc^2 where E is the Kinetic Energy of a moving body and c is the speed of light

In this case. The arguent isn't that Gai has gathered such a speed that he has gained an intense mass.
It's that he has gathered such a mass through his chakra, that space is bending around him.
We already know chakra has mass. Everything has mass. And that it can become dense and heavier

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And that chakra can become heavy and dense

Gai even , In the same page pointed out that his Chakra was something to be acknowledged

The scan itself doesn't show any signs of space bending. It shows a massive amount of shock wave being released from that generated speed. If it was space bending, it would look in the fashion to Kamui. Not to mention it started spreading around Kakashi and Gaara [

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]. He created an air twist, which only makes logical sense.

Anyway, I am getting tired of this. So, I will stick to my opinion.

 

[Apêx1]

No movement can go faster than the speed of light. If fictionally Gai was to ever arrive at such a speed. His mass would be infinite and thus require equivalent energy to even move him in the first place , thus creating the mass energy equivolance paradox

This, among many other obvious reasons is why Gai wasn't anywhere remotely near SOL

Common sense would indicate the latter argument as the only logical and or possible reason for space distortion

I was saying in theory, distorting space to contract in the back while expanding from the front could cause FTL. Yes, you are only supporting my argument. I stated to distort space, he would have to be near SOL, or at the very least, many times larger than massively hypersonic. It is a known fact that as you approach the SOL you exponentially increase in mass, up until the point of infinity (not taking account contracting behind while expanding in front).

Common sense would indicate he did not distort space at all. His speed would have to be DBZ level to even come close to distorting space, yet even then would it be unlikely to have distorted it. Unless you are willing to say Gai is sub-relavistic or something along those lines, I don't see the reasoning behind your arguments. Repeating facts we know isn't changing the fact that Gai did not momentarily achieve immense mass with mere speed. The exponentially increasing weight would've put too much strain on his already strained body, and forced it to break. Anyways, Madara having seen him is all the more proof that he didn't go at such speeds.

 

[Owarij]

The scan itself doesn't show any signs of space bending.

That's because it wasn't nearly on the level that gai would be outputting with his chakra. It was just enough to start making Naruto heavier by the growth in mass. Which as you can see the grown began to crack below him

 

[Mad Daz]

I hope you guys dont think kishi is concerning himself with the fine points of physics in his manga.. The official english translation, Viz, showed that madara said gais attack bent space. Whenever a translation is in question, people wait for the viz to come out, now a certain fanbase is trying to say viz isnt official because it doesnt support their side, pathetic.

 

[Bronze]

That's because it wasn't nearly on the level that gai would be outputting with his chakra. It was just enough to start making Naruto heavier by the growth in mass. Which as you can see the grown began to crack below him

I wasn't talking about 4th tailed Kyuubi. I was talking about the scan of Gai.

 

[MightGai]

I hope you guys dont think kishi is concerning himself with the fine points of physics in his manga.. The official english translation, Viz, showed that madara said gais attack bent space. Whenever a translation is in question, people wait for the viz to come out, now a certain fanbase is trying to say viz isnt official because it doesnt support their side, pathetic.

This damn 10 chars

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Which is why the speed of light is theoretical. Kinetic energy is the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. As the relative speed of an object increases, the mass also increases, Thus the kinetic energy needed to move the object will become more and more

Theoretically, if an object was to move at 186,000 miles per second(Speed of Light), its mass becomes infinite. However, an object can never be truly accelerated to SOL as some energy which is used to accelerate it will always add to its mass thereby requiring additional energy to accelerate the object at the same rate. Hence, an infinite amount of energy would be required to accelerate an object to the speed of light. Which is represented mathematically as

E = (γ-1)mc^2 where E is the Kinetic Energy of a moving body and c is the speed of light

In this case. The arguent isn't that Gai has gathered such a speed that he has gained an intense mass.
It's that he has gathered such a mass through his chakra, that space is bending around him.
We already know chakra has mass. Everything has mass. And that it can become dense and heavier

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And that chakra can become heavy and dense

Gai even , In the same page pointed out that his Chakra was something to be acknowledged

Hm, perhaps mass did have a factor and it wasn't 99% of the speed of light. However, it definitely wasn't all chakra mass. Madara commented on the speed, implying that this was the fastest attack Guy sent out yet.

Spoiler

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It definitely wasn't all mass, and speed probably had a huge part. It may not be 99% of light speed, but it's up there.

 

[Vegeto30294]

I hope you guys dont think kishi is concerning himself with the fine points of physics in his manga.. The official english translation, Viz, showed that madara said gais attack bent space. Whenever a translation is in question, people wait for the viz to come out, now a certain fanbase is trying to say viz isnt official because it doesnt support their side, pathetic.

But when BlacLord directly translates from the raw scans:

Nope, the raws said "空間" being an area type of space and more specifically in this context, not the three-dimensional "宇宙". Japanese defines space in two, distinct ways.

Therefore, it was a quantum fluctuation.

Apparently there's a problem.

 

[Owarij]

Hm, perhaps mass did have a factor and it wasn't 99% of the speed of light. However, it definitely wasn't all chakra mass. Madara commented on the speed, implying that this was the fastest attack Guy sent out yet.

Spoiler

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It definitely wasn't all mass, and speed probably had a huge part. It may not be 99% of light speed, but it's up there.

At the speed of light you could travel around the world 6 or 7 times in a second. In 8 minutes you can get from earth to the Sun which is 149,600,000 kms away.

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A trained ninjas nervous system moves at 360 km/hr , Meaning a ninjas ability to react to an attack is dependent on that number. Lightspeed? 671 million miles per hour..
For the sake of argument lets say Madara is no ordinary person. Which is true. Lets say Madara's nervous system after becoming the juubi Jink has increased, 10 fold and puts him at a remarkable 3.6k km/hr / In comparison to Light speed. It doesn't even come close. Infact, close is an understatement. To put this into perspective. Madara wouldn't be able to formulate a thought. Much less see Gai coming.
As for Gai himself, Moving at light speed would require a nervous system and reaction capabilities operating somewhere above attoseconds to properly perceive what was going on around him during such a speed.

Gai was moving fast. Gai was no where near the speed of light.

I wasn't talking about 4th tailed Kyuubi. I was talking about the scan of Gai.

The space distortion is space being pulled in, Which is why kishi focused on the bending staff.
You linked an exact picture to explain the phenomenom

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[Sennin of Logic]

At the speed of light you could travel around the world 6 or 7 times in a second. In 8 minutes you can get from earth to the Sun which is 149,600,000 kms away.

You must be registered for see images

A trained ninjas nervous system moves at 360 km/hr , Meaning a ninjas ability to react to an attack is dependent on that number. Lightspeed? 671 million miles per hour..
For the sake of argument lets say Madara is no ordinary person. Which is true. Lets say Madara's nervous system after becoming the juubi Jink has increased, 10 fold and puts him at a remarkable 3.6k km/hr / In comparison to Light speed. It doesn't even come close. Infact, close is an understatement. To put this into perspective. Madara wouldn't be able to formulate a thought. Much less see Gai coming.
As for Gai himself, Moving at light speed would require a nervous system and reaction capabilities operating somewhere above attoseconds to properly perceive what was going on around him during such a speed.

Gai was moving fast. Gai was no where near the speed of light.


The space distortion is space being pulled in, Which is why kishi focused on the bending staff.
You linked an exact picture to explain the phenomenom

Uh...... dunno about that. Remember, this is a dojutsu, plus natural energy. The difference is>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>10X. Heck, curse mark gives a 10X physical increase. Ninjas such as Kakashi are conically able to intercept lightning, which is 286 X the speed of sound. I don't think Kishi held with the whole nervous system thing. Plus, you'll notice that in shonen, characters for some stupid reason always think super-quickly. Far quicker than we do.

 

[MightGai]

But when BlacLord directly translates from the raw scans:




Apparently there's a problem.

I'm sorry, help me understand. Kuukan (空間) and Uchuu (宇宙) are two different things, as he says. The second one, as far as I have looked up means space as in universe, cosmos, and so on. The first one means space as in, like he says, an area.

So, Madara uses Kuukan to express that the area around him is being distorted, which is true. How does that negate Viz translation?