"Good" Is Subjective; Naruto Might As Well Be A Villain

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

I completely agree, something that could've fixed this easily is if Naruto had questioned the Moon Eye Plan whilst fighting rather than just saying "STUPID BAD GUY IM NOT GONNA LIVE IN SOME ILLUSION" like an idiot. We also need more reason as to why the Moon Eye Plan is even a bad thing. In this wartorn ninja world where people like Hanzo get to rule, people die constantly and entire clans get wiped out because of 'peace'- Tobi actually seems to be doing the right thing. Tell me why Naruto is fighting for this bastardised world rather than just being in a dreamworld where Neji never died, everyone is happy and together, no more war and he is with his parents?

 

[Lightbringer]

Naruto wants peace through working together and trusting each other. He doesn't create a plan that involves capturing innocents and extracting their bijuu from them that would kill them in the process.

Naruto doesn't save a child only to manipulate him into doing his own bidding and forcing him to stay in a cave for a year.

Naruto doesn't seek vengeance on a past mentor for only being human.

Naruto isn't filled with hatred and despair. Naruto doesn't want violence. Naruto forgives and shows mercy.


There's nothing subjective about who's good and who's bad.

 

[Invsblphntm]

Well, logically, there is no good or bad. It's all subjective right?

But, lets list some things our two "heroes" did:

Murdered the Hokage
Murdered his wife
Caused a boy to be all alone for his life
Made a gang of the strongest criminals
Made a God go for peace in the way of Deterrence

...

Killed only one person in his life
Reunited the world against a common enemy

I could go on...

 

[CurseSealofEarth]

1. Pregnat woman JINCHURIKI
2. In order to create 10 tails so he can make peace.
3. Helped to destroy a CLAN who wanted to destroy a village
4. Obito didn't attacked the summit you fool =/ Obito didn't hurt anyone at the summit he just saved Sasuke and Karin.
5. In life you don't chose to get cancer, you don't chose to be bullied, you don't chose that your family and loved ones die by illnes, old age etc. AND YOU DON'T CHOSE TO BE A PSYCHOPATH! IT'S A MENTAL ILLNESS AND THERES NO MEDICINE FOR IT NEITHER A WAY TO STOP IT!!!

That's bullsh!t. EXAMPLE: There are 20 people in a cell in a jail. 1 is a psychopath and attacks another one (who didn't do anything) with a knife and stabs him. The wounded has a deep wound and so another 1 (lets call him Jerry) tries to help him with stoping his bleeding etc.. BUT the other 18 in the cell stoped Jerry from helping the wounded one.

QUESTION: Jerry tried to help the wounded guy (who was good hearted and didn't do anything wrong) but everyone stopped him. So was Jerry a good guy? YES But with your logic he was a bad guy for helping a wounded good hearted guy.

So kill the psychos. If it's a mental illness that causes people to want to destroy the world then kill them. Simple, quick, efficient. Don't try and bring a moral high horse in here.

Your question attempts to justify my very broad statement. You think I meant it every single time? No, a scenario can be flipped and turned anyway you want for the benefit of your argument.

 

[Mejkl3]

So kill the psychos. If it's a mental illness that causes people to want to destroy the world then kill them. Simple, quick, efficient. Don't try and bring a moral high horse in here.

Your question attempts to justify my very broad statement. You think I meant it every single time? No, a scenario can be flipped and turned anyway you want for the benefit of your argument.

So you want all the imperfect people in the world die huh. Well thats ok get a mustache and an perfect race army and you can become Hitler pt. 2. Congratz! But wait without imperfect people there are no perfect people so 50% of the new perfect people would be imperfect and getting killed and that would go on go. So you can't just kill the weak ones cuz without weak ones there wouldn't be strong ones.

 

[Sherlock.]

Agreed.... If the story was from Hidden Stone Village's POV then Minato would be the biggest Villain from Kakashi Gaiden since he killed most of their Ninja in Kakashi Gaiden.... =D =D

 

[saw2097]

Obito is a raving lunatic.

He unleashed the 9 tails on the Hidden Leaf Village how is that good or build towards peace?

What about corrupting Sasuke, how does that bring peace or do any good?

What about starting a war that consumes ove 50,000 lives, how does that bring peace?

Naruto has done none of that and wants to bring peace. That is why he is good and Obito isn't.

Obito's plan is selfish and twisted, everyone living in an illusion isn't real peace, that is running away from reality like a frightened child, just so he can be with his dead 12 year old crush.

Obito is rotten to the core.

Naruto is a hero because he works for peace without sacrificing others and he isn't doing it for selfish reasons like Obito is.

 

[CurseSealofEarth]

So you want all the imperfect people in the world die huh. Well thats ok get a mustache and an perfect race army and you can become Hitler pt. 2. Congratz! But wait without imperfect people there are no perfect people so 50% of the new perfect people would be imperfect and getting killed and that would go on go. So you can't just kill the weak ones cuz without weak ones there wouldn't be strong ones.

Oh no, by all means that's what you seem to think I mean, but not at all.

Without weak people there wouldn't be any need for strong people. The weak just drag down the strong, not the other way around.

You want to paint me as Hitler Mk.2 but I think you need a little help if you think defending a raging psychopath bent on destroying the freewill of people is a good thing.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Very good thread. Good and evil are indeed subjective,and one of the underlying themes of this manga is that there is no absolute evil or absolute good. Thus the flashbacks for almost every character that's considered as 'evil' (kabuto, madara, obito) explaining the circumstances that made them what they are. Its wrong to label someone as 'evil' simply because you do not understand their actions.

Take the Akatsuki. Many of them seemed the personification of pure evil, yet what do we know now?

Itachi was a hero, or at the very least an anti villain. Nagato turned from being a mass murderer into a semi savior by reviving the people of konoha. Near their deaths, both Sasori(as an edo) and Kisame showed that they had principles which ayone would call 'good' for which they were willing to make sacrifices.

 

[Retsu]

It's not complicated. Obito and madara evil as heck. Naruto is a saint compared to those 2.

 

[NarutoB]

Because trying to stop a zombie from taking away everyone's free will makes you the villain, right? :sy:

 

[TrollingSage]

I'd like to point out something that kind of irritates me when people start talking good guys and bad guys.

In truth, there ARE no good guys or bad guys. At least not in the sense we think of. "Good" or "Bad" is completely subjective to which side you are on; for instance, we consider Naruto "good" because we see the story from his point of view, whilst Kisame could be considered "good" for sticking to his organization and remaining loyal, even though he was a "villain".

Obito and Madara are widely considered the "villains" of the story. Why? When you look at it from their angle, they're just trying to acheive world peace as well, albeit through their own methods. And yet they are condemed as the "villains" of the series because of how WE view the story.

If we look at it from Obito and Madara's angle, Naruto might as well be the villain. He killed (and attempted to kill) members of the Akatsuki and dozens if not hundreds of zetsus. What makes that any different from Madara and Obito killing people off from the Alliance and such? The fact that the Alliance are "good guys"?

The terms "good" and "bad" are completely reliant on what side you are veiwing the conflict from. To some, Obito and Madara would be considered "heroes".

Good and evil are not entirely subjective. There are some things that are universally accepted as good or evil. Like stealing for instance. Even without laws, a normal human knows stealing is a bad thing.
Obviously some things are subjective, for instance incest, pre marital *** etc. They're accepted in some communities but rejected by others.
They might have "good" intentions but what they're trying to do is force everyone to do their will. I don't see how that can be anything but evil.

 

[BlackBison]

Kudos to you my good sir for diving into a very adult kind of topic. To actually grasp this topic you have to stop thinking like a child and start thinking like a man/woman.

The truly confusing part of this is that you still have to remember that there are truly evil people and truly good people. Yet, you still have to remember that good and evil are very much subjective views depending on how you view them. What one person views as evil, the other person may view as good and vice versa. Also, like I said you still have to remember that there are people who do an evil act and know it is evil and they really just don't care.

Now what people who think in a philosophical mind set needs to realize is that most people can't coup with the fact that there is no good or evil people in the manga right now. If they don't label a good side and bad sid then the story makes no sense. If they expand their views from naruto to real life, then life doesn't make sense. The perfect quote for this topic is something Itachi told sauske. Itachi said, "People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality". But what does it mean to be "correct" or "true"? Merely vague concepts… their "reality" may all be a mirage. Can we consider them to simply be living in their own world, shaped by their beliefs?" Last thing thing I have to say is that, is it just me or is Kishi trying to tell us something about this whole war .

 

[Booker]

Why are people so naive? There is no universal good or bad

We are all a product of our environment.

Most of us here (I hope) were raised to believe that murder and stealing and such is wrong. But what if you were brought up thinking otherwise?

I'll use the cannibal example because it gets the point across. Obviously all of us were raised to believe cannabalism is "bad", but if the entire planet were raised as cannibals, then cannabalism would be "good". There is no inert good or badness in any of us; we are just a product of our environment.

Same applies for Naruto. We only see Naruto as "good" because we were raised to believe that truth and self-sacrifice is "good". We see Obito and Madara as "bad" because we were raised to see distrust and tyranny as "bad".

People are just a product of their environment, ultimately. If the world was made up of thieves, we would all be thieves and not think anything of it.

 

[The Big Boss]

Re: Why are people so naive? There is no universal good or bad

your thread is bad and you should feel bad

 

[PredictionGuru]

Re: Why are people so naive? There is no universal good or bad

So in other words you'll eat a man if I tell you that cannibalism is the best thing since sliced bread?

 

[CurseSealofEarth]

Re: Why are people so naive? There is no universal good or bad

There should be a universal system of good and bad then. We shouldn't be able to even make the attempt to justify our actions.

So in other words you'll eat a man if I tell you that cannibalism is the best thing since sliced bread?

Is it? I'm kind of curious now.

 

[Yusuke Urameshi]

Re: Why are people so naive? There is no universal good or bad

I'm sorry, but you're terribly wrong. Who taught you this way of thinking?

 

[Sherlock.]

Re: Why are people so naive? There is no universal good or bad

Didn't you make a similar thread a few mins ago..?? Lol Lol

 

[Super7]

Re: Why are people so naive? There is no universal good or bad

It's all about perspective...