General Football Debates!

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

It's been some time since I spark a new question for a debate. So, I'm gonna ask one which just went through my mind?

I've noticed that most of the promising young talents of the footballing world are turning out to be either attacking midfielders or wingers. It's weird that when we mention most of the future great prospects, there are so many few super-calibre strikers - except Neymar and a bunch of teens. I know, we've debated on the importance of both strikers and midfielders and somewhat, it's disturbing how much the 'striker craze' has died out.

Some of the future promising midfielders/wingers (and some are already pretty much known) include: Ozil, Hazard, Kagawa, Wilshere, Coquelin, Ganso, Oscar, Lucas Moura, Thiago Alcantara, Isco, Sahin, Ericksen, Gotze, Reus, Cleverley, Morrisson, Pogba, Kroos, Shaqiri, Weiss, Savic, Powell, Tunnicliffe, Tabanou, Dzagoev, Sterling, Saso, Tello, El Shaarawy, Lamella, Coutinho, Henderson, McEachran, Lukaku, Miyachi, Kovačić, Giuliano, Halilovic, Gündoğan, Holtby, Wijnaldum, Ananidze, Leitner, Krhin, Gyau, Ninis, Kantarovski, Toral, Lanzini, Brahimi, Bruno César ect..

Is it due to the importance of midfield in today's football? Why are most players evolving as attacking mid. or wingers in the academies? Are all the top teams doomed to play with only one or 'false' striker in the upcoming future? In a stereotypical football world where goals are viewed as key, can the new legion of midfielders create a revolution? Or are the numbers of promising strikers as great, or greater?

Up to you, ReLax & anyone who feel interested in this topic? Answer the questions and we'll try to further elaborate on it.

well you see everything has it own AGE, am pretty sure you still remember in the 90's its what we called the pure striker AGE, with Van basten,Batistuta,Raul,Suker,Vieri,Ronaldo,Yorke,Elber,Baggio,Dugarry,Delvecchio,Carew,Viduka,Sheva,Kanu,Kluivert,Signori,Overmars,Klinsmann,Bierhoff, Montella, Inzaghi,Bergkamp and many more,

there is a reason why it was like that, why ? because the top and the best league at that time its what we called SERIE A, the style of italian football at that time and even now never change, they tend to use a penalty box style striker with 1 hit wonder from the midfield and winger everything is up to the striker to put the ball in the net, that's what we called effective football

that's how it goes in the 90's, they follow the trend from the most popular league,
the same thing goes nowadays where EPL stand as the best and the most competitive league in the world,
i hope that's answer your questions

 

[Luther]

I taught i should post this ...xd

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[Gilda]

Oh, Lord, we're losing to Sevilla. First part was crap, lots of mistakes, losing the ball quickly and stuff. Loosing chances to score. And what tops this is Messi who isn't in his good shape. Why? ;_;
As for the second part I'm not really watching it because I'm afraid of facing lose today.


EDIT: Lol, we won in the greatest possible way. Wowowowowo!

 

[Luther]

Barcelona won fabregas scored a brace and David villa the match winner.

 

[ReLax -]

Spoiler

It's been some time since I spark a new question for a debate. So, I'm gonna ask one which just went through my mind?

I've noticed that most of the promising young talents of the footballing world are turning out to be either attacking midfielders or wingers. It's weird that when we mention most of the future great prospects, there are so many few super-calibre strikers - except Neymar and a bunch of teens. I know, we've debated on the importance of both strikers and midfielders and somewhat, it's disturbing how much the 'striker craze' has died out.

Some of the future promising midfielders/wingers (and some are already pretty much known) include: Ozil, Hazard, Kagawa, Wilshere, Coquelin, Ganso, Oscar, Lucas Moura, Thiago Alcantara, Isco, Sahin, Ericksen, Gotze, Reus, Cleverley, Morrisson, Pogba, Kroos, Shaqiri, Weiss, Savic, Powell, Tunnicliffe, Tabanou, Dzagoev, Sterling, Saso, Tello, El Shaarawy, Lamella, Coutinho, Henderson, McEachran, Lukaku, Miyachi, Kovačić, Giuliano, Halilovic, Gündoğan, Holtby, Wijnaldum, Ananidze, Leitner, Krhin, Gyau, Ninis, Kantarovski, Toral, Lanzini, Brahimi, Bruno César ect..

Is it due to the importance of midfield in today's football? Why are most players evolving as attacking mid. or wingers in the academies? Are all the top teams doomed to play with only one or 'false' striker in the upcoming future? In a stereotypical football world where goals are viewed as key, can the new legion of midfielders create a revolution? Or are the numbers of promising strikers as great, or greater?

Up to you, ReLax & anyone who feel interested in this topic? Answer the questions and we'll try to further elaborate on it.

If you were to look back in the history of football you'd see most of the legends come from midfield/winger positions (Pele/Cruyff/Maradona/Platini). At least 50% if not more come from these positions, even Puskas/Di Stefano played as forward, but you'd hardly think they were strikers, as they played like wingers/midfielders. It's like Messi he's actually an attacking midfielder, but plays as a striker for Barcelona, or at least a false "9". It's always been like that even with Pele who was an attacking midfielder and had over 1000 goals, Cruyff/Maradona/Platini also had over 300 goals as attacking midfielders (more goals than 75% of strikers to ever play) and are among the top scorers for their countries. These guys have already shown football world, you don't need strikers in order to score or win.

Most strikers have been known to be lazy and lack defence. Even at times they aren't in box when they should be when the balls far out on the wing (in other words aren't in positions even offensively). If we look today Benzema/Ibra/Falcao/Cavani/Dezko/Higuain/Torres/RVP are all fantastic, but they are lazy when you see them on the pitch they don't attempt to get the ball as much or drop back deep to help. Even CR if he played as a striker, he wouldn't be dropping back to defence as much as he is as a winger.

As you can see most the youngsters today, want to be the next Pele/Cruyff/Maradona/Platini/Zidane/Dinho, and tomorrow they'll want to be the next Xavi/Iniesta/Messi/CR. All who play the positions you mentioned, which is why we see most players as midfielders/wingers.


Is it due to the importance of midfield in today's football?

Yes, but the importance of midfield has always been there, as I've listed above more than 50% of legends in the past came from these positions. Even if we look back most successful teams have had their midfield be key.

Why are most players evolving as attacking mid. or wingers in the academies?

If we look at it in todays view, its due to Barcelona influence, or should I say Johan Cruyff. He told the world you don't need physical strength, or height to play/win football games, and today we are blessed with the likes of Messi/Iniesta/Xavi proving to the world. Other players like Silva/Aguero/Mata/Suarez/Pirlo/etc. This has influenced other teams/academy to lean into this depending on what they have to work with.

Even when you look at it in 2012 the top five players are Messi, CR, Iniesta, Xavi, and Pirlo. 1 winger and 4 midfielders. It's been like that for the past 4-5 years.

Are all the top teams doomed to play with only one or 'false' striker in the upcoming future?

This won't last for long and isn't a thing every club can do. In the past 4 years we seen Barcelona/Spain do it with strikers, Torres/Henry/E'too/Ibra, we seen them do it with false "9" Dinho/Messi and we seen Spain claim the 2012 Euro with midfielder/wingers. ATM this is why most teams are in attempt for this, but as I said its not something all teams can do. Once we see this Barcelona/Spain team fall, or we see key players missing and no one else to cover the void, teams themselves will change.

In a stereotypical football world where goals are viewed as key, can the new legion of midfielders create a revolution? Or are the numbers of promising strikers as great, or greater?

Strikers itself are harder to find today. We have the likes of Ibra/Benzema/Higuain/Torres/Falcao/Cavani/Dezko/Gomez/RVP/etc and all these strikers cost at least 40 mil and up, which most teams don't want to risk on buying unless they'll settle for a key midfield/winger for less of the price. Also we need to remember most strikers are done at the age of 30, were as midfielder/wingers can still go on longer time with the same influence to their teams.

I'll ask you a question, if you were to make a team of your own from ground up and had almost every spot/position was taken care of except for a midfielder and striker, but you could only bring in one, what would be your number one priority, a midfield or striker? Which would benefit the team more? And why?

Some of the future promising midfielders/wingers (and some are already pretty much known) include: Ozil, Hazard, Kagawa, Wilshere, Coquelin, Ganso, Oscar, Lucas Moura, Thiago Alcantara, Isco, Sahin, Ericksen, Gotze, Reus, Cleverley, Morrisson, Pogba, Kroos, Shaqiri, Weiss, Savic, Powell, Tunnicliffe, Tabanou, Dzagoev, Sterling, Saso, Tello, El Shaarawy, Lamella, Coutinho, Henderson, McEachran, Lukaku, Miyachi, Kovačić, Giuliano, Halilovic, Gündoğan, Holtby, Wijnaldum, Ananidze, Leitner, Krhin, Gyau, Ninis, Kantarovski, Toral, Lanzini, Brahimi, Bruno César ect..

Most the players listed here lack a few things in order to be a striker, either pace, strength, or height, if not all.

 

[IzunaUchiha2]

Awesome Madrid played well yesterday in sunday match and real madrid won 5-1 . Ronaldo scored a hat trick , not suprising . Pepe scored also and di maria is keeping on scoring these days , i think di maria is improving . Pepe is also not fouling these days . Manual Pablo for Deportivio played very bad yesterday , fouling and fouling ...

Since ronaldo's sadness he has been playing good . He scored against Mancity, rayo and now a treble goals against Deportivio. Suprisingly messi never scored in the last two games . Hoping to see Uefa champions leauge . Hala madrid

 

[ReLax -]

FFS, Puyol just returns and he's back out again on injuryU_U This is his 3rd time in start of season, return in El Clasico back out, return in La Liga back out, and now return in CL back out and this time for a while his arm seem to have snapped.

 

[kmrasengan]

got damn, i got to say congrats to barcelona, my team didn't play as well as i tought they would play, at least i got to see good thing happen, busquets being expelled, serves him right that little crybaby.

 

[ReLax -]

Barcelona VS Benfica --- 2-0

Well out first win over Benfica in about 20 year (about time), but this was our third (the other two ending in 0-0, both that is) meeting in that 20 years also Puyol injury is proving to be decisive we had to make a comeback in the first CL and had two close call La Liga ones also. God I have a bad feeling about the clasico.

Man U VS Cluj --- 2-1

As the last game, Man U dominated the game, but just walked away with a victory. RVP and Rooney are making to be a great pair. I would like to see a mixture of Kagawa in their plays a little more.

Chelsea VS Nords --- 4-0

The defending champs winning in a convincing style, Mata is Chelsea at the moment.

Juventus VS Shaktar --- 1-1

The Old Lady got held once again today, which isn't looking to well as they need to win. Shaktar midfield is really amazing to watch. Juventus need to watch out, or they may exit in the group stages.

BATE VS Bayern Munich --- 3-1

Bayern undefeated run overall ends here to BATE. At least they can still keep it up in the league.

Celtic VS Moscow 3-2
Valencia VS Lillie 2-0
Braga VS Galatasaray 2-0

 

[-God of War-]

BATE VS Bayern Munich --- 3-1

Even if Bayern had the ball almost all the time, they lost. The were good at attacking, but bad at defence. Plus that they had all those chances to score more that 1 goal. It would be a lot better if Gomez would be able to play...the same for Robben. Mandzukic didn't played very well. Muller lost the ball at some good chances. Bayern should have won that game. But...what can I say? Bad defence, losing the ball, losing good chances.
Bayern should be more careful. They should be at their perfect form everytime, if they want to win. They should do something better at defence.

Bayern - LOSC 23 October
LOSC lost 1-3 against BATE and 0-2 against Valencia. So, I think Bayern will win this match easily. I hope Robben and Gomez will return from injury as fast as they can.

 

[ReLax -]

Dortmund VS City --- 1-1

This was one hell of a game, even tho the scoreline isn't showing it, but Dortmund pretty much dominated the game with shots, but City had possession and also their share of shots. Dortmund capitalize on a mistake from Rodwell and City got tie back with a PK, which was questionable nevertheless, but given. Dortmund hit the post about 2-3 times, and they had at least another good 2-3 chances and also 3-4 one on ones with Hart. He (Hart) came up big a lot of times.

In all it was a good game, Dortmund was the better side, but City fought back to give them the three points.

Madrid VS Ajax --- 4-1

Well Madrid dominated this game from right, left and centre, with CR scoring a hat trick, thats what 6 goals from him in two games. Next up for them is the Clasico, without Puyol and perhaps Pique, Madrid have the upper hand.

AC Milan VS Zenit --- 3-2

Milan had a two goal lead, before Zenit made a come back, but an OG from Zenit seen them losing to Milan.

Arsenal VS Olympiacos --- 3-1

This Arsenal side is really growing, still they need a lot of work, but can prove to be threat to anyone.

FC Porto VS PSG --- 1-0

Porto dominated this game, even tho the score line isn't showing. PSG was quite terrible in this game.

Other games:

Kiev VS Zagreb --- 2-0
Malaga VS Anderlecht --- 3-0
FC Schalke 04 VS Montpellier --- 2-2

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

Madrid VS Ajax --- 4-1

Well Madrid dominated this game from right, left and centre, with CR scoring a hat trick, thats what 6 goals from him in two games. Next up for them is the Clasico, without Puyol and perhaps Pique, Madrid have the upper hand.

nah barca always have the upper hand since 2009, i don't really think puyol absent will affect barca performance this weekend,
the only thing that barca need to watch out for is madrid long pass from the midfield that owned them in the super copa

 

[IzunaUchiha2]

Cool el clasico again . Want ronaldo to score another hat trick . Madrid have an upper hand , it looks like barca is gonna lose

 

[Escorpiius]

Due to exams nearing off, I may be less active to cover matches and debates ect... I hope you guys understand.
As for the debate I started on 'Future overshadowed by Midfielders', well, I'm a bit short of time.
I promised to reply to that as soon as I get some time. I feel bad to being unable to reply it as I, myself started it but please, bear with my situation. I thank ReLax and Totsuka with their feedbacks and will get on that soon.

For now, I'll talk on some of the CL matches and upcoming Great Sunday.

Barcelona VS Benfica --- 2-0

Well out first win over Benfica in about 20 year (about time), but this was our third (the other two ending in 0-0, both that is) meeting in that 20 years also Puyol injury is proving to be decisive we had to make a comeback in the first CL and had two close call La Liga ones also. God I have a bad feeling about the clasico.

Man U VS Cluj --- 2-1

As the last game, Man U dominated the game, but just walked away with a victory. RVP and Rooney are making to be a great pair. I would like to see a mixture of Kagawa in their plays a little more.

Chelsea VS Nords --- 4-0

The defending champs winning in a convincing style, Mata is Chelsea at the moment.

Juventus VS Shaktar --- 1-1

The Old Lady got held once again today, which isn't looking to well as they need to win. Shaktar midfield is really amazing to watch. Juventus need to watch out, or they may exit in the group stages.

BATE VS Bayern Munich --- 3-1

Bayern undefeated run overall ends here to BATE. At least they can still keep it up in the league.

Celtic VS Moscow 3-2
Valencia VS Lillie 2-0
Braga VS Galatasaray 2-0

Puyol's snapped arm was terrible image. I really felt hurt for him and it pained me to see him in such agony. His fall was awful. Otherwise, a composed victory of Barcelona against a decent Benfica side.

United's match was boring. If it was another team playing, I would have fallen asleep. As for the performance, well, it was underwhelming and less piercing than against Galatasaray. But it's an Away victory and 3 points that sent us on Top of the group. So, mathematically it's a brilliant results in all aspects and we all know how important maths is after last year's fiasco. Rooney did a great entry against Spurs and he did well here too. RVP should have nailed atleast a hattrick. He got around 5 clear chances. I like the 3-way midfield with no wingers. Sure, it's still a bit lacklustre but for a second-hand midfield (no Carrick, Scholes, Kagawa), I think they did fairly well considering United's usual dependency on wingers.

I don't think Mata is Chelsea but he was excellent and Chelsea's victory was very convincing. Basically, Chelsea's foursome (Hazard-Oscar-Mata-Torres) is well-oiled right now. And thus, the results are following up. United hasn't been able to constitute my dream foursome (Valencia-Kagawa-Rooney-RVP) for now due to injuries of either one or the other. Same for City. That's a bit the reason of Chelsea's superiority right now. Post the Boxing Day, I think all Top Contenders for EPL will have fixed starters and we'll have the true fight unleashed. As for the CL Group, Chelsea shall have no issues passing that one.

BATE's victory shocked and by seeing the highlights, I'd say it was absolutely no fluke victory. Surely, the most surprising team for now.

I liked that Celtic won, it makes the fight for Europa more hard to clinch atleast.
Lille keeps disappointing me on European level. It's really sad as it's my favorite team from France. Oh well, never mind.
Favorable result for United.

Dortmund VS City --- 1-1

This was one hell of a game, even tho the scoreline isn't showing it, but Dortmund pretty much dominated the game with shots, but City had possession and also their share of shots. Dortmund capitalize on a mistake from Rodwell and City got tie back with a PK, which was questionable nevertheless, but given. Dortmund hit the post about 2-3 times, and they had at least another good 2-3 chances and also 3-4 one on ones with Hart. He (Hart) came up big a lot of times.

In all it was a good game, Dortmund was the better side, but City fought back to give them the three points.

Madrid VS Ajax --- 4-1

Well Madrid dominated this game from right, left and centre, with CR scoring a hat trick, thats what 6 goals from him in two games. Next up for them is the Clasico, without Puyol and perhaps Pique, Madrid have the upper hand.

AC Milan VS Zenit --- 3-2

Milan had a two goal lead, before Zenit made a come back, but an OG from Zenit seen them losing to Milan.

Arsenal VS Olympiacos --- 3-1

This Arsenal side is really growing, still they need a lot of work, but can prove to be threat to anyone.

FC Porto VS PSG --- 1-0

Porto dominated this game, even tho the score line isn't showing. PSG was quite terrible in this game.

Other games:

Kiev VS Zagreb --- 2-0
Malaga VS Anderlecht --- 3-0
FC Schalke 04 VS Montpellier --- 2-2

Joe Hart is EPIC. This guy is definitely a world-class goalkeeper. The saves he made are delights to watch and hard to believe. Luck or not, City will have been crushed without him. The Blaszczykowski-Gotze-Reus is starting to make Dortmund back on last season's track gradually. City's draw is a bad result but it's a lifeline. It's up to them to use it in their advantage and the only way to do that, is to grab 6 points against Ajax. If Dortmund manages to grab points against Madrid, this will give them a huge boost.

Madrid did dominate the game and I'd applaud CR7 for his hattrick, Benz for his sublime bicycle kick and Kaka for great midfield display.

Zenit is disappointing. Basically, Zenit are the biggest disappointments in CL right now and BATE are biggest shockers of this year's CL for now.

Didn't see Arsenal's match or the goals.

Porto's match was very good. PSG failed miserably but I expected it. Yet, I think, it's commendable that they lost only 1-0 against such a good Porto side. They may not have shown the expected class of offense but it's good that they had the potential to resist against an A-Level CL Team. imo, that means that their road to improvement won't be such a lengthy one. I must salute Porto's recruitment yet again though. They keep finding true gems out of nowhere. I keep mentioning Arsenal, Barcelona, United and others to benefit the most from FFP but we tend to forget Porto who might be one of the greatest winner on that plan.

---

Coming on today's results:

City v/s Sunderland - 3-0
Chelsea v/s Norwich - 4-1
West Ham v/s Arsenal 3-1
Bayern v/s Hoffenheim - 2-0

Chelsea, City and Arsenal all won in convincing fashion their EPL matches. This adds big pressure on United (and Spurs could add even more) who got the biggest match against Newcastle. I remember there was one season where United lost his matches against teams in Top 6 but won all their encounters against teams in lower echelon and they ended up Champions. I don't hope that they lose tommorow but we already lost against two serious contenders (Everton and Tottenham) and still got to play Newcastle, City, Arsenal and Chelsea...Hmmm... It will be a tough match tommorow especially with our leaking defense and porous midfield. Especially against Cisse/Ba strikeforce, Cabaye's lengthy balls and Ben Arfa's frenzy against an aging Evra. I'm really fearing this match...U_U

Speaking of tomorrow, it's gonna be on the Best Sundays. Apart the big match above, we got:

- Madrid v/s Barcelona - El Classico returns. At stake: Barcelona's opportunity to kill Liga competition, Ballon D'Or decider maybe, the same battle for supremacy yet again, the momentum of Madrid. Oh well, we know the story and we'll be up for another great footballing night.

- Marseille v/s PSG - France's Classico. Perhaps the most prestigious club in France and current leader - Marseille - against the nouveau-riche and city rival - PSG. The hot derby and the opportunity for PSG to make a statement on their quest for Domestic domination. They are favorites but a derby can always create upset. It's a bit the field for PSG to do what City did at Old Trafford last season. Okay, maybe not a 6-1 but atleast, a resounding victory. Still, this PSG is far from immune to disappointments, so who knows??

- Milan v/s Inter - 2 sinking ships fighting for the biggest source of oxygen gas...I won't be able to see this one but hopefully, shall be a great match.

 

[ReLax -]

I don't think Mata is Chelsea but he was excellent and Chelsea's victory was very convincing. Basically, Chelsea's foursome (Hazard-Oscar-Mata-Torres) is well-oiled right now. And thus, the results are following up. United hasn't been able to constitute my dream foursome (Valencia-Kagawa-Rooney-RVP) for now due to injuries of either one or the other. Same for City. That's a bit the reason of Chelsea's superiority right now. Post the Boxing Day, I think all Top Contenders for EPL will have fixed starters and we'll have the true fight unleashed. As for the CL Group, Chelsea shall have no issues passing that one.

Well in 10 games Mata has 4 goals and 7 assist. He had a huge influence in some close call games for Chelsea in either scoring the winner or setting it up. To me he is the best of out of Hazard/Oscar/Torres.

 

[Escorpiius]

Well in 10 games Mata has 4 goals and 7 assist. He had a huge influence in some close call games for Chelsea in either scoring the winner or setting it up. To me he is the best of out of Hazard/Oscar/Torres.

Mata - 4 goals | 6 assists
Hazard - 2 goals | 7 assists
Torres - 5 goals | 3 assists
Oscar - 2 goals | 2 assists (but he didn't start in early part of season)

All in all, I find it pretty stable. I won't go as per stats too much also since they all have big influence on the teamplay right now.

---

Since I'm posting, I can, well, say that:

Ronaldo & Messi are monsters. I've been saying that there's little between them for Ballon D'Or all this year and when the time came up with this Classico to be a decider, both shined. Football Bloody Hell!

Shouldn't they share that Ballon afterall?

 

[Escorpiius]

Well in 10 games Mata has 4 goals and 7 assist. He had a huge influence in some close call games for Chelsea in either scoring the winner or setting it up. To me he is the best of out of Hazard/Oscar/Torres.

Mata - 4 goals | 6 assists
Hazard - 2 goals | 7 assists
Torres - 5 goals | 3 assists
Oscar - 2 goals | 2 assists (but he didn't start in early part of season)

All in all, I find it pretty stable. I won't go as per stats too much also since they all have big influence on the teamplay right now.

---

Since I'm posting, I can, well, say that:

Ronaldo & Messi are monsters. I've been saying that there's little between them for Ballon D'Or all this year and when the time came up with this Classico to be a decider, both shined. Football Bloody Hell!

 

[ReLax -]

Mata - 4 goals | 6 assists
Hazard - 2 goals | 7 assists
Torres - 5 goals | 3 assists
Oscar - 2 goals | 2 assists (but he didn't start in early part of season)

All in all, I find it pretty stable. I won't go as per stats too much also since they all have big influence on the teamplay right now.

---

Since I'm posting, I can, well, say that:

Ronaldo & Messi are monsters. I've been saying that there's little between them for Ballon D'Or all this year and when the time came up with this Classico to be a decider, both shined. Football Bloody Hell!

lol well from wiki it says

Mata 4 goals and 7 assists
Hazard 2 goals and 6 assists
Torres 6 goals
Oscar 2 goals and 3 assists

I don't mean just statistics, but shockingly I have caught a few of Chelsea gameU_U and I've seen Mata performance, he is what Silva is to City. Also other than Oscar who showed up in Juventus game, Mata has shown in big games/key games, Hazard has been good too, but his best performances came were Chelsea as a team were dominating, thus far that is. Torres has been Torres, slowly getting there.

 

[Escorpiius]

lol well from wiki it says

Mata 4 goals and 7 assists
Hazard 2 goals and 6 assists
Torres 6 goals
Oscar 2 goals and 3 assists

I don't mean just statistics, but shockingly I have caught a few of Chelsea gameU_U and I've seen Mata performance, he is what Silva is to City. Also other than Oscar who showed up in Juventus game, Mata has shown in big games/key games, Hazard has been good too, but his best performances came were Chelsea as a team were dominating, thus far that is. Torres has been Torres, slowly getting there.

Well, I also took from wiki. :| So why doesn't it matches?

Anyhow, Hazard carried Chelsea in the first 3-4 matches. Torres is starting to be back. Oscar didn't start and took time to adapt to EPL but he's been consistent in last 3 matches.

Mata may be to what Silva is to City but in case you didn't notice, Silva hasn't been very good with City since start of the season. He was good only in last match, which came against a resigned Sunderland side. Mata has been very good, can't deny that. But I still think he's benefiting a lot from those 3. Mata has been good since his arrival; even last season but if he is shining more now, it's because his teammates have gotten better post-transfer season.

 

[ReLax -]

Well, I also took from wiki. :| So why doesn't it matches?

Anyhow, Hazard carried Chelsea in the first 3-4 matches. Torres is starting to be back. Oscar didn't start and took time to adapt to EPL but he's been consistent in last 3 matches.

Mata may be to what Silva is to City but in case you didn't notice, Silva hasn't been very good with City since start of the season. He was good only in last match, which came against a resigned Sunderland side. Mata has been very good, can't deny that. But I still think he's benefiting a lot from those 3. Mata has been good since his arrival; even last season but if he is shining more now, it's because his teammates have gotten better post-transfer season.

Hmm not sure (

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) career stats on Chelsea 12/13 it says 4 and 7

Yes, but even last year he was won the best player in Chelsea for that season. This year its true he is around more talent and youth, but he's only getting better. Silva performances I'm speaking of last season.

Del Bosque said there is no room for him in the upcoming international games lol