General Football Debates!

ReLax -

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Well...:rolleyes:

Seems United lost two straight...seems they have a defensive problem rather than a GK. They need a signing midfield/defense asap or the will fall second to City this season or maybe drop to third. Totthenham still has a game at hands and can be leveled point wise with United.

City beat Liverpool and took the lead again.

Funniest article I read

 
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Escorpiius

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Wow, it's been some time and I wonder why I didn't reply. Now there's too much lol. Let's see - I'll elaborate on some teams individually.

Barcelona

Well, the draw at Espanyol was surprising. It definitely gives a tinkling alert to Barcelona I guess. They must be sure about which cups/titles to main target cause' Madrid is pretty comfortable on the top of Liga table now. Wonder if the first backfiring consequence will occur in today's Classico. Oh yeah, congrats to Messi for Ballon D'Or and to Guardiola too. Unsurprising obviously. The most interesting critic line I read when they analyses Messi's triumph, weakness, legacy, performances, level ect... was someone who said "If Ronaldo was on Barca side, it will have been him that will be collecting the individuals trophies."

That was and interesting & prickling analysis cause eventually he was saying both are almost on the same level.

Madrid

Nothing much I guess. They've been strong. Let's see their match at the Classico.

Man.United


Well, where to start???

I guess, with the major and good news first. .
I must say it's good and bad too. Good because it's a deserving contract extension but sad because it means that there might be an end someday soon and it's not in those tiny years that he'll understand his flaws.

Otherwise, congrats on their win over City in the Cup. They may have lost twice in EPL and have not have their usual boxing day (surprisingly for me) but such a victory was important.

Obviously, the most surprising move was the return of Scholes after SAF failed to sign Lampard. While I prefer to have Scholes rather than Lampard, I still think it will have been better to sign some other creative midfielder.

The 4-0 convincing win at Bolton was good. Let's see what they do against the Gunners now.

Man.City

They are still going strong which is not surprising but what's surprising is that the main reason that they are still strong in EPL is because of the slippery of all other teams. The back-to-back defeats in League and Fa Cup against Liverpool and United is not that good. The 1-0 win Monday was not that convincing.

In what will be one of the most important fixture day to come - City v/s Tottenham while Arsenal v/s United, they should have been in better form. Anyways, the league is damn interesting.

Tottenham

Too bad, that they lost important point just when they finally leveled with United point-wise but I must say they are damn impressive. On their rate and point level, they could have been a comfortable leader last season. So, to be able to make this league a 3-way is extremely commendable.

What hurts me more is that they are the team after United that I like to see the most in EPL. To see them as 'enemies' is not easy to me. They have a great squad and I hope they do make it to the Top 4 atleast at the end of the season.

Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool


Well, both teams lose too much futile points. Chelsea is still not gaining back the level and are grappling weak victories most of the time. Villa Boas need to change something.

Arsenal is the same thing. Henry return was a good move but still, he's not the savior they need. They need someone who can be a leader in defense and midfield. Arshavin, Benayoun, Ramsey, Mertesacker are disastrous players. I've seen the match against Swansea and while I was amusingly surprises by the fantastic attacking display of Swansea, I was absolutely baffled by the weak defense of Arsenal.

As for Liverpool, the lack of Suarez definitely shows terrible sequels in the gameplays. They lose considerable points. Also, they lack the confidence to actually fight for something (like 4th place). That's not helping them.

Inter

They are in great shape. Their convincing win in derby definitely shows that they are back in form. The good return of Sneijder and Forlan is definitely helping. While, I think they won't win the Italian league, I must say they might give some competition in the CL now and not be classified as third-class teams in CL knockout stages.
 

itachi49

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real madrid push comes to 10 minutes after they are over!real madrid are on track to win the clasico, but as the last clasico,
people said that the real win and they took a 1-3 home.
So tomorrow Blaugrana victory eyes closed :)
i bet an 1-2 and 4-0 at home for barcelona .

Since 2008, the only clasico as Real won was in Valencia, Copa Del Rey final,otherwise, Barça is still higher than the Real, either at the Bernabeu or the Nou Camp,FCB RMA memorable 5-0 last year!

The barca will still and always have fun ...
 

Escorpiius

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real madrid push comes to 10 minutes after they are over!real madrid are on track to win the clasico, but as the last clasico,
people said that the real win and they took a 1-3 home.
So tomorrow Blaugrana victory eyes closed :)
i bet an 1-2 and 4-0 at home for barcelona .

Since 2008, the only clasico as Real won was in Valencia, Copa Del Rey final,otherwise, Barça is still higher than the Real, either at the Bernabeu or the Nou Camp,FCB RMA memorable 5-0 last year!

The barca will still and always have fun ...
I think Barca can be eliminated when it comes to a Home-Away leg. Inter did it, Madrid nearly did it last year in CL, Arsenal could have done it if RVP was not red-carded and even Chelsea was so close years back. League/Group Stages, Knockout Round/Cups matches and finals are 3 different things. And while Barca are nearly invincible in finals; they still have weaknesses at times in grabbing points in League matches and can also lose in a double leg.

I don't know which of these 2 classicos in Copa Del Rey but I'm pretty foreseeing that one of them will be a draw. Let's see which one of them will be more concentrated.

Madrid are underdogs in this one after the last defeat. They played very well though but as I said, they must be efficient and be a little more lucky with their chances. It will be key here too. The only plus point Madrid have on this match is that they can affirm their intentions for this year. A victory over this 2-leg will not only make them advance at the expense of Barcelona but they'll also be on top of Liga with more confidence and be pitted as equal favorites in CL.

But all other factors - psychology, history of results, history of performances and the advantage to play home for the return match - are in Barca's favor.
 

Michael92

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I think Barca can be eliminated when it comes to a Home-Away leg. Inter did it, Madrid nearly did it last year in CL, Arsenal could have done it if RVP was not red-carded and even Chelsea was so close years back. League/Group Stages, Knockout Round/Cups matches and finals are 3 different things. And while Barca are nearly invincible in finals; they still have weaknesses at times in grabbing points in League matches and can also lose in a double leg.

I don't know which of these 2 classicos in Copa Del Rey but I'm pretty foreseeing that one of them will be a draw. Let's see which one of them will be more concentrated.

Madrid are underdogs in this one after the last defeat. They played very well though but as I said, they must be efficient and be a little more lucky with their chances. It will be key here too. The only plus point Madrid have on this match is that they can affirm their intentions for this year. A victory over this 2-leg will not only make them advance at the expense of Barcelona but they'll also be on top of Liga with more confidence and be pitted as equal favorites in CL.

But all other factors - psychology, history of results, history of performances and the advantage to play home for the return match - are in Barca's favor.
Always good reading your analysis before an El Clasico :p
 

itachi49

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guys please look what i said in my previous post #148

real madrid push comes to 10 minutes after they are over!
real madrid scored at 11 th minutes again then nothing, i was true ! :)


So tomorrow Blaugrana victory eyes closed :)
i bet an 1-2 and 4-0 at home for barcelona .
final score is actually 1-2 for barcelona ,so my prediction was true :)


don't i deserve something like a gift or rep ? :eek:
 
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Michael92

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I just can't believe it. Same thing over and over again, Barca always plays 10 times better against Madrid, it's ridicules! We always get the first goal at home (three last encounters), but Barca always turns it around. Need to start holding them of, jesus!
 

Escorpiius

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I just can't believe it. Same thing over and over again, Barca always plays 10 times better against Madrid, it's ridicules! We always get the first goal at home (three last encounters), but Barca always turns it around. Need to start holding them of, jesus!
Well, they still have more weak points than Barcelona. Both are good in their games but weaknesses do appear here and there.

Firstly, Madrid don't have leader in their defense. Every great team must have a top-class defender and a top goalkeeper who both need to have leadership qualities as well as technical abilities. They do have Casillas but no such defender. That's a reason why Barcelona, United, City, Chelsea, Inter and even Tottenham are pretty successful teams - because somewhere they do possess some Puyol, Ferdinand, Kompany, Terry, Lucio, Kaboul. I'm not saying that most of those teams are thus better than Madrid; because mostly Madrid will overcome this part with their other qualities. It's just that lacking in that compartment is fatal against Barca's team caliber. Pepe is disastrous and if sanctioned, it will be a correct decision. ( lol). The defense of Madrid holds up only because the individuals defensive skills and mainly because of Casillas. Had the defense be a more compact and united defense, it might not always be the same story. If only they had someone like Cannavaro who could lead them and if the latter were younger, they could have find a possible right man. Intead, you see the playing in India lol. Now they'll need to search and I don't think selling rash players like Pepe or Marcelo will be such a bad thing.

While the corner goal is not that alarming - though it disrupts the whole team, the second goal is clearly a case of lame defending though the pass and finish are superb.

Also, like a boss of this defeat. Eventually, I find that they played better in the 3-1 defeat. They tried the same pressure play like that match in the early goings and scored again but I think Xavi's greater influence over the game ruined their tactic. They also missed Ozil's quick thinking in that case. I don't know why it was so necessary to play two strikers and sacrifice a player like Ozil for a flop like Altintop. They also still lack that killing instinct to net most chances but for this match, they had much less chances to score (and thus to waste) because of the overall better Barca's control thanks to Xavi.

Mourinho seems to still search for a winning tactic while to me, he has two references in front of him. One is the Copa Del Ray final where they had the better teamwork and the other one is the 3-1 defeat months ago where they had a better 1st half but were too less efficient.

All-in-all, thanks to Xavi and Co. and lame defending from Madrid, this defeat is less sour than last month's in my view because Barca was definitely much more deserving this time. The result is not over because of the 2nd leg and while a 2-1 is not such an insurmountable lead, I doubt Madrid will make it. Their best option will be to score 2 quick goals and try defend as much as they can for the whole match. With some luck, they might just qualify or atleast get to extra-time/PK but I don't think Madrid fans should keep too much illusions U_U

If I had to give a percentage, I'll say Barca has now 80-85% to qualify themselves to the next round.
 
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Michael92

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Well, they still have more weak points than Barcelona. Both are good in their games but weaknesses do appear here and there.

Firstly, Madrid don't have leader in their defense. Every great team must have a top-class defender and a top goalkeeper who both need to have leadership qualities as well as technical abilities. They do have Casillas but no such defender. That's a reason why Barcelona, United, City, Chelsea, Inter and even Tottenham are pretty successful teams - because somewhere they do possess some Puyol, Ferdinand, Kompany, Terry, Lucio, Kaboul. I'm not saying that most of those teams are thus better than Madrid; because mostly Madrid will overcome this part with their other qualities. It's just that lacking in that compartment is fatal against Barca's team caliber. Pepe is disastrous and if sanctioned, it will be a correct decision. ( lol). The defense of Madrid holds up only because the individuals defensive skills and mainly because of Casillas. Had the defense be a more compact and united defense, it might not always be the same story. If only they had someone like Cannavaro who could lead them and if the latter were younger, they could have find a possible right man. Intead, you see the playing in India lol. Now they'll need to search and I don't think selling rash players like Pepe or Marcelo will be such a bad thing.

While the corner goal is not that alarming - though it disrupts the whole team, the second goal is clearly a case of lame defending though the pass and finish are superb.

Also, like a boss of this defeat. Eventually, I find that they played better in the 3-1 defeat. They tried the same pressure play like that match in the early goings and scored again but I think Xavi's greater influence over the game ruined their tactic. They also missed Ozil's quick thinking in that case. I don't know why it was so necessary to play two strikers and sacrifice a player like Ozil for a flop like Altintop. They also still lack that killing instinct to net most chances but for this match, they had much less chances to score (and thus to waste) because of the overall better Barca's control thanks to Xavi.

Mourinho seems to still search for a winning tactic while to me, he has two references in front of him. One is the Copa Del Ray final where they had the better teamwork and the other one is the 3-1 defeat months ago where they had a better 1st half but were too less efficient.

All-in-all, thanks to Xavi and Co. and lame defending from Madrid, this defeat is less sour than last month's in my view because Barca was definitely much more deserving this time. The result is not over because of the 2nd leg and while a 2-1 is not such an insurmountable lead, I doubt Madrid will make it. Their best option will be to score 2 quick goals and try defend as much as they can for the whole match. With some luck, they might just qualify or atleast get to extra-time/PK but I don't think Madrid fans should keep too much illusions U_U

If I had to give a percentage, I'll say Barca has now 80-85% to qualify themselves to the next round.
Agreed with most of what you said, but selling of both Pepe (for his beastly moments) and Marcelo (whaaaaaaa) would be silly. Marcelo has grown a bit since the Super Copa if you ask me and at the moment he's far better than Coentrao and the player who's most suited at left back for Real.
Madrid need to stop changing formation every single time they play Barca and start coming up with a clear 11 to play. Xabi, Lass and Pepe in midfield seems wrong to me.
Oh, and speaking of the Super Copa, right now I'm just puzzled over what Madrid did in the first leg of the Super Copa? :confused: They clearly had full control of that game and created a lot of chances. Was it Barca being out of shape, or just Mou hitting jackpot on the starting 11 that time...
 

Escorpiius

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Agreed with most of what you said, but selling of both Pepe (for his beastly moments) and Marcelo (whaaaaaaa) would be silly. Marcelo has grown a bit since the Super Copa if you ask me and at the moment he's far better than Coentrao and the player who's most suited at left back for Real.
Madrid need to stop changing formation every single time they play Barca and start coming up with a clear 11 to play. Xabi, Lass and Pepe in midfield seems wrong to me.
Oh, and speaking of the Super Copa, right now I'm just puzzled over what Madrid did in the first leg of the Super Copa? :confused: They clearly had full control of that game and created a lot of chances. Was it Barca being out of shape, or just Mou hitting jackpot on the starting 11 that time...
I'm not saying that they should sell them like now now. But what I wanted to say is that if "real" defenders' arrival was to be at Marcelo or Pepe's expense, I don't think it will be such a bad thing.

I agree that I did not liked the tactic. For me, one thing is clear for Madrid - whenever they have a match against big teams, there are 3 players Casillas, CR7 and Ozil - who should never be left on the bench (except injury cases). I don't know how Ozil who's easily the most influential player in midfield of Madrid; be on the bench. Whatever tactic you try to fit.

I guess, it was a bit of Barca being a little more weak at that point. Not to forget that Barca's friendlies were not good while Madrid won all (or almost perhaps) their friendlies.
 

Escorpiius

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EPL Update and Views

Well, with all the big teams playing yesterday, losing points - the eyes were on the Super Sunday featuring two great fixtures - Man.City/Tottenham and Arsenal/Man.United.

Chelsea did a poor 0-0, Liverpool and Newcastle lost 3-1 and 5-2 respectively.

So, I'll focus on Man.City v/s Tottenham first.

With a lukewarm first half due to 2 very cautious teams, the match quickly sparked magic. After some nice presence from both teams, Silva gave a fantastic pass to Nasri who fired it with power against Friedel. Some minutes later, on a corner, Lescott brashly fight his way to put it in the net. 2-0 City and perhaps a clear signal of their dominance. However, on a long ball, Defoe took opportunity of a miss by the defender before calmly netting it to give some hopes. And the hopes were right to exist and the hopemaker is named...Gareth Bale. Easily, the best player on the field in this match, he curled a beautiful goal and gained an equalizer in style. In case, you did not follow - that were 4 goals in 9 minutes! But, there'll remain regrets for the Spurs in that match.

Firstly, at the 91st minute where Bale countered in speed before giving a perfect low cross to Defoe who missed the crucial goal and in fact, missed the easier thing - to put it inside an open goal. Furthering Defoe and Spurs's misery, was a penalty given for a silly fault of Ledley King on Ballotelli. And at the 94th minutes, Mr. "Why Always Me" punished the Spurs. Man.City won 3-1 and put pressure on United before their match and relegated Tottenham 8 points behind them. In case, Tottenham is not in the race of champions celebrations at the end, that miss of Defoe will haunt them for a long time. Well, the season is still long; so they can hope for the best.

Now, onto Arsenal v/s United. As for the City v/s Tottenham match, the early goings were tensed and a game played with more cautiousness by both teams. United slowly gained a sterile domination thanks to Nani easily overpowering Djourou on the left wing but Nani was too messy and at times to personal in his choices afterwards. A first hard point for United when the returning Jones injured himself and was stretchered out of the field. It took more than 30 minutes to see a first real chance for United as Evra pass the ball to Nani whose low shot was blocked by Sczeny.

Minutes before half-time, agian on the left wing, Giggs delivered a perfect cross for Valencia who powered a header for the 1-0. Ironically, that was Giggs first ball on the left wing while Nani got like 20 such positions earlier on. At times, simple good cross does the tricks better than useless dribbles.

Arsenal came back strong after the half-time. RVP missed an easy goal; perhaps too much in search of the clinical finish. Chamberlain (was the best Gunner on the field) and Ramsey nearly scored but missed nearly while Welbeck's goal was denied thanks to Mertesacker (I think that's the best feat. I saw him doing since entering EPL) saving the ball on the line. Rafael then was stopped on a counter to score and continuing the action, in 4 passes (Kosielny-Rosicky-Chamberlain-RVP), RVP put a great goal in an almost impossible angle.

Then came a series of stoppage time due to injuries. Nani (who was replaced), Sczeny who hurt his ribs on an action, Walcott who knock himself out for minutes by falling on the chin and Rooney who kept limping till the end. In between came the surprising decision of Wenger who replaced the very good Chamberlain with the self-poisoning Arshavin. One received a hero ovation while the other was booed by Emirates. And he definitely poisoned his own team as Valencia played with him and finally ended the action with a golden pass to Welbeck who gave the winner to United. The lack of aggressiveness of Arshavin was conspicuous. If I was an Arsenal fan, I'll be seriously pissed to concede a goal like that for that kind of poor defending.

The rest of the match was more of United defending with 10 men, playing the clock, Arsenal frustrating due to not being able to enter the box and receiving quite some yellow cards. I found the tactic damn risky and hopefully for Ferguson it did worked otherwise, I'll seriously will have been pissed. Valencia was easily the best player; with Evra and Chamberlain both close second.

It's still a sour night for both teams. Both teams got many opportunities in the 2nd half but I think, the lack of composure of the Gunners in the 1st half backfired against them. The decision of removing Chamberlain by Wenger will be discuss though. As for United, despite the win, the injuries could be heavy of consequences.
 

ReLax -

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Well I'm a bit late, but rather post a bit about last weeks classic.

I was more shocked to see Pinto in net over Valdez, it was like Pep wants to hand Madrid the game. The first goal was a nice finish by Ronaldo, but it should have been Pinto save. In last years loss to Madrid the first ever out of 14 games, Pinto was in net.

In the past 2 years many people state of how Madrid have improved they will do this and that, and I believed it. I saw Madrid growing and I even saw it in games. It doesn't change the fact that they still don't have anything on Barcelona. They played a very good Espana cup Game before the start of the season, by far the best I seen, They played a good league classic, and than they played an ok game last week. As I said Madrid still need to show consistency against Europe top tier clubs, I mean other than Barcelona, they haven't played any other (Tottenham if you want to include them). As Ronney said last year beating Barcelona = winning CL. Well, they are holding down being first in La Liga, so lets see how it goes for them.

I agree with Escrop as Madrid have no leader other than Casillas and their VC is Ramos. I mean look at their starting line up other than Casillas I don't think any other player has been their for more than 4 years? Maybe Ramos has been there for 4-5, but most are either 3-2 years. It seems the club lacks loyalty among the players. Di Maria already wants a rise and expect players leaving next year if nothing comes out for them this season.

Madrid D is way out of places and they love to triple team which opens Barcelona up...



In this watch how many people focus on Messi, and both defenders move up slightly to get to Messi/Sanchez, which pretty much handed the goal to Abidal. It just take half a second mistake from Madrid which cost them the match.

Barcelona defence grab one person at a time, and the likes of Xavi, Sanchez come back to double team at times, but you barely will see Puyol/Pique on one player unless in the box. Madrid have 3-4 players swarm Messi, Xavi, Inesita, which opens up others. I mean I understand these players can have a blind fold over their eyes and get by one player (over exaggerating, but you know what i mean). Ronaldo is always open and doesn't face as much pressure than Messi when playing against one another (I said as much pressure, so don't think I mean he doesn't face pressure at all). I will say a lot of the time it pays off for Madrid triple teaming, but last week it surely didn't.

Pepe was a disgraceful act. He came out and stated it was 'unintentionally', but sadly its a never cry wolf story for him now. He should be given at least 3-5 match ban. This man even dived about 4 times that game.



Fail much?



At least much better than the first one.



Don't focus on the goal, but watch Busquets and Carvalho here.



Well Madrid aren't any better clearly. The dives/play acting, and aggressiveness comes from them also. I'm not saying in no way that Barcelona are angels, as no team in the world is. I read a funny comment a while ago were someone said it FIFA 12 (game) we should get an achievement for fouling/injuring Alves lol




In this article SAF Barca are the best and at this time, he can't see anyone taking the title except maybe Madrid seeing them in recent games VS Barca, doesn't seem they are up for the task yet.

In the past 14 games Barcelona won 10, draw 3, loss 1 to Madrid. Its a big feat for them.

Barcelona will also be wary of teams like Inter, AC, Chelsea, Arsenal, and Bayern who can match them and possible take them out of CL.

2 two days left till the second round...

Recent new the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) punished Pepe by only giving him a warning a long with a few other Barcelona/Madrid players.

 
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