Gai vs Third Raikage
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Madara himself took 0 damage from Hirudora, so no matter if Susano'o was destroyed or not, Madara could've easily create another one and gone back to fight. Unless you're suggesting Hirudora incapacitated Madara for the whole chapter, which is ridiculous. He was 'missing in action' because it was his own decision, not because he couldn't come back.
So basically, Hirudora hitting Susano'o and Madara being off-panel for the whole chapter doesn't mean Susano'o got destroyed. There's 0 evidence and 0 manga proof of it happening. Stop.
Forbidden Technique
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Especially after Madara said he was done holding back
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Lol, but of course we unfortunately have active posters on this section that post constant bullshit, smh.
Claiming that hirudora can kill the raikage is the only thing thats retarded, not the other way around
Yep, the damage forr susanoo would pile up, so even if 1 hirudora wont bust V4, the second one certainly will
and like KG said, guy cant use AT on rapid successions to have an attack powerful enough to take out the third, so AT gets tanked
especially when one AT can get tanked with some damage, so the other wont do much, except for tiring guy out and handing out his death
Raikage was stated to be unaffected, and even put his armor on right afterwards, so one or even 2 hirudora is still not cutting it,
FRS had the elemental advantage over the raikages RnY yet it still failed, hirudora has more or less the same outputt without the advantage,
Raikage is ALOT more durable than V3 susanoo, and probably more durable than V4 as well,
raikage tanks it just fine, especially when we see him tank an FRS (which is comparable to AT) with little damage
not to mention that im sensing butthurt here, no one has said that hirrudora could be sppammed,
2 of them iis most likely his limit
EE =/= AT
8th gate =/= 7th gate
there has never beeen a hirudora spamming argument and no one has used this reasoning to support it,
Everyone here has some sort of an argument as to who they believe would win a fight,
it all depends on how much credibility their arguments hold
using manga scaling andd comparisons to deduce that raikage tanks AT is not something thats new
the only clown here is you
cry to kishi for making 7th gate guy being able to fight JJ madara in CQC,
and cry too kishi for giving the raikage the durrability to tank over 95% of the attacks on the NV
and Lol nothing short of EMS Sasuke is soloing them both, anyone below gets his ass handed to them
TRE MERCER
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Ill agree with Unorthodox. What did Rasenshuriken do to Kakuzu body honestly?.(
Also regardless of how you try to back up your argument you clearly said he tanks Hirudora with little damaged is just out right crazy. He was cut by Temari wind style. .(
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). If Kakuzu was edo he would have gotten right back up FRS is overrated as well. Giant Hiurudora's ruin him.Also regardless of how you try to back up your argument you clearly said he tanks Hirudora with little damaged is just out right crazy. He was cut by Temari wind style. .(
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).Temari wind tech with the help of many others couldn't even scratch a skeleton Susanoo..(
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)-(
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). Which means a Skeleton Susanoo> 3rd Raikage without ration armor. Now please tell me you don't think Ration armor> v3 and v4 armor? Also when Danzo preform the same tech on a skeleton Susanoo that cut through a v3 Susanoo(With the help of Baku)and it didn't do anything.(
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). Nuff said.
KidGamer65
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Only a joker would say that Madara, who was in a hurry to catch the last two Bijuu, sat on his ass instead of fighting. If he could have come back, he would've. Don't make nonsense excuses, it only makes you look foolish.
Evidence supports it. These nonsense retorts aren't counters. Madara's grip on the Mokuton loosened, that shit wouldn't have happened if Madara wasn't damaged.
Right. The stupidity is overwhelming as of late...though I notice it's always Madara who was "Fooling around" "Or letting shit happen"
>Eighth Gate Gai gives Madara the beating of his life.
>People say Madara let it happen.
>Madara says that he had to avoid getting hit.
Lol
>7th Gate Gai wrecks him and his Susanoo with Hirudora.
>People say Madara tanked it, and stayed back there just because he felt like it.
>Madara says he was in a hurry to capture Hachibi and Kyuubi.
Lol
1. He couldn't move at all. Lol, read the manga.
2. That was an FRS at half it's normal power, let alone at full power with Senjutsu or Kurama's chakra enhancing it.
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Unorthodox
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No what you sensing is the truth boy and next time when you reply make sure to add my name otherwise i would not know who replied to me.
Im so tired of hearing the 3rd raikage wank it almost makes me sad. V4 Susanoo durability shits on Raikages you claim he would tank hirudora with no damage yet according to you people it destroyed a v3 susanoo completely why are we overestimated raikage's durability by saying something that destroys a v3 susanoo does nothing to raikage.
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Raikage indeed took damage edo flakes does not come off naturally thus he took minor damage if he was alive he would have been finished due to the effects of rasenshuriken. Also he would have been in to much pain to fight back properly stop using that edo feats as something impressive when alive 3rd would have been killed.
Where was this in that sasuke thread V4 susanoo tanks it with minor damage why cant sasuke rebuild his susanoo before gai fired another hirudora or 1 shots gai with ama/susanoo arrow after the first hirudora is used also. V4 susanoo tanking feats >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The 3rd raikages. Kirin witch is a mountain buster managed to destroy v4 susanoo (speculations if he even used v4 susanoo) but kept the user safe. Hirudora has not shown such a feat nor has rasenshuriken witch never actually destroyed a single body part when contact was added. im going to need more proof his durability besides going off this bs logic.
Rasenshuriken > Danzo's Fuuton > Witch cut opened susanoo therefore raikage > susanoo durability wise no we cant even scale these fuutons feats. Rasenshuriken best cutting feat is cutting rocks while danzo is opening up the back of Sasuke's susanoo.
You didnt have to say it you were implying it hirudora could be used multiply times in battle. When you show of scan of raikage being completely unharmed while alive ill argee also show me a scan of rasenshuriken being anywhere near mountain level or cutting anything besides rocks then we can talk.
Also its impossible to post of feat of attack A damaging or not damaging attack b because they never went head up but i have your word for v4 susanoo taking no damage from frs counter this
Oh im using logic something that you barely use my child your just not liking it because it sways heavily in my favor (As it always does)
FRS never killed kakuzu to began with kakashi actually killed him. even though it was his first FRS it did nothing to kakuzu's body physically meaning its no a destructive attack people forget the main purpose of FRS being deadly is not its destructive capabilities but its effectiveness to the chakra system. witch better feat does it have and im talking about the basic FRS meaning normal size. Kirin destructive wise shits on FRS.
Ghost in the Shell
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^That Rasenshuriken destroyed two of Kakuzu's three remaining hearts, meaning that it killed him two times over. However, he wasn't actually dead because he had another heart to spare. Kakashi killed the last one, therefore, finishing off Kakuzu.
Unorthodox
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Its preference i do not see killing his hearts means killing him the way i see if Kakuzu as a hole is alive it never killed him. Also it was mostly about what rasenshuriken destructive wise did to his body then about killing Kakuzu to begin with so before you reply read all your facts kid.
Ghost in the Shell
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...I'm not going to even say anything about the first sentence
Look at it this way. Kakuzu got hit with a weaker version of Rasenshuriken relative to the one that hit the Raikage, and was rendered completely immobile despite having a heart left. The Raikage was on the ground for several seconds before getting up to fight again after he got hit with the aforementioned Rasenshuriken.
KidGamer65
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Let's see if you can actually prove that.
Based on what? It did nothing to him that was severe enough to kill him. Edo flakes and cracks on his body means nothing. A crack was made when Naruto's Rasengan hit his arm, are we saying that Rasengan can damage him despite FRS failing? Nope. The rest is nothing but an assumption.
He can, but MS strain takes a lot out of him, so he isn't even going to be using Susanoo for very long let alone using the highest level and rebuilding it when it gets damaged.
Um...when you can show speed feats of those being fast enough to hit, then we can talk. Besides, this is Raikage, not Sasuke.
Kirin destroyed a small Mountain/A large hill at best. Chidori did
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to a pretty large rock formation. Rasengan=Chidori, so it'd do the same damage, but the rock would have a different imprint since Rasengan isn't a piercing jutsu. Chou Oodama Rasengan is many times larger than Rasengan. Thus Chou Oodama would do the same to a rock many times larger (proportionately of course) than the one Sasuke attacked, that'd be closer to a small hill/large mountain, but not quite there yet. 25 of those Chidori would obliterate that rock, so 25 of those Rasengan would obliterate a rock much larger than a boulder. (Medium-Large Hill) FRS>>>25 Chou Oodama Rasengan as FRS did much more damage to Kurama than the Rasengan did, meaning FRS is much stronger than an attack that can obliterate a Medium-Large Hill, thus it does heavy damage to a V4, which you apparently believe is the Susanoo that blocked Kirin. More than one obliterates it.Then there's the fact that
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explosion takes up more than half of the CT crater.Though it was probably V3 that did so, doesn't really change my argument since FRS isn't too far off from Kirin's power based on the scaling, which is accurate. That'd also put Hirudora in Kirin's ball park, if not greater since Kirin obliterated v3 Susanoo and left Itachi safe, but Madara lost control of his Mokuton when Gai busted his Susanoo. V4 would take all 3 attacks, but not without damage.
So no. V4 Susanoo is not more durable than the Raikage.
Read above.
Learn what spam means. Spam and use multiple times are NOT the same thing.
When you can change the manga, then you'll have a point, but until then. Your edo flakes point is barely valid, not when Naruto outright said "It did nothing to him". What he took was superficial damage.
I only said show feats that prove it'd tank with no damage.
If only that wasn't a thread I made 1 year and a half ago. Lol. I can show you recent posts and messages that completely contradict said thread, because I changed my mind. Though this is telling me that you are lacking the counter argument department. Nice try though.
If only a soul on this forum actually agreed.
You know what people also forget? That Naruto's FRS was not enhanced by Senjutsu or KCM, nor was it at full power.
KCM/SM FRS>>>Full Power FRS (Base)>>50% FRS (Base)
Then there's the fact that it vaporized Human Path, yet Kakuzu was still in tact.
Not gonna take this part of your post seriously since you are using a weaker FRS to try and discredit a stronger one.
RustledJimmies
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@KG: I agree with most of your argument, but where did you get that Hirudora would do anything more than superficial damage to a V4 ? Last I checked, Hirudora's best feat was destroying V3, what makes you think it will do anything significant to the armored version ?
OT: Raikage wins.
OT: Raikage wins.
KidGamer65
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It all depends on the gap between V3 and V4. Doubt that V4 can completely tank a move that obliterated the previous version, not without damage.
RustledJimmies
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KG said that V4 can't tank one Hirudora with low damage, therefore, the next one GG's it. Imo it should do low to moderate damage to V4, 2 of them should be able to heavily damage it, possibly obliterate it, not sure about that, though.
Unorthodox
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We'll see then.
Based of what you say have we've forgotten what rasenshuriken true purpose of in battle?
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this is the main reason why rasenshuriken really never tears the body apart or destroy it because its more deadly when its effects take controll as you can see the spikes or blades attack cells and chakra strings things that are far to small meaning it passes through the skin as deidara nano bombs would because they're that little even in the skin you can see the body does not tear it just passes through because its that little meaning if the the 3rd raikage was alive he would be have been finished because once his lighting armor was blown off his skin had no more protection from the micro blades that would tear apart his chakra strings making in a vegetable like state like how Kakuzu was. Where is the scan of naruto making an edo crack with just rasengan? Also edo cracks what all edos have cracks over their bodies most of the time
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so you trying to use edo cracks to help your argument is funny i suggest you ball it up and chuck it out the window. However edo flakes has always been a constant reminder that an Edo has tooken some form of Damage or its being revived. The rest is not an assumption its a hypothesis if someone thing is strong enough to blast his armor off its strong enough to harm him simple as that.A sick Itachi used Amaterasu for in extended periode of time Tsukuyomi and was beat and bruised badly by shuriken and Sasuke's fist yet Managed to whip an Susanoo got it completely destroyed then making v4 susanoo fight with Hydra There is no way a healthy Sasuke cant use v4 susanoo for a decent amount of time to fight you trying to use the chakra argument shows how your gasping at straws. Once Hirudora was used gai will surely slow down but yea lets stay on topic my child.
A small hill are we looking at the same uchiha
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rolls and sections of trees does not wrap around hills terrible attempt to try in downplay kirin destructive prowess. i agree on the Chidori = Rasengan however that was wrong Hype of Kishi's behalf especially since chidori has not down anything like that on a scale to where it looked like a rasengan has hit that rock rather then chidori that alone can be dismissed. your little calc of the rasengan or whatever im not going to act like i begin to understood where you trying to got with that but i have a better way to use the scaling then that.FRS explosion was nowhere near that size common misconception we've seen The aftermath of FRS crator many times
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this is no where near that size to expand more to why the frs explosion should not be compared to the Chibaku tensei crator. A much more powerful Naruto used frs.
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is the heart or the limits of its Aoe/Destructive power. Explosive type attack power is truly based on what they can destroy or the Aoe they cover when they're exploding. In that scan you see its nowhere near the size of the chibaku tensei crator in that scan you cannot even see the explosion of the FRS all you can see is the debri meaning when its exploded it indeed was the normal size of the frs explosion it just that all the debri that flew around would make it look larger and please read this with an open mind vs im trying to debunk or downplay FRS feats be logical even thought i im your opposition in this thread.In then this post went to shit as i explained the size of an explosion or the Aoe is covers is the true limits of its destructive capabilities here we seen
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this is roughly how a rasenshuriken explosion would look if it hit the uchiha hideout now before you call bullshit hear me out 3rd raikage well very well noticeable when he was caught in the
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now look at that
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look carefully for them the black stick looking figures. No width wise thats easily the size of the rasenshuriken explosion. these a cals or scaling of the size of these jutsu
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Notice that was the frs explosion calc before kirin even went off it was larger meaning by nearly 60 feet and that pre explosion meaning the most rasenshuriken would have did was destroy the very base or top part of the hideout
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these are pretty accurate and going by this Rasenshuriken in destructive power does not even come close to kirin witch turned the uchiha hideout to paste completely
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also almost anyform of susanoo can be whiped on near instantly in it clearly was v4 susanoo that was plastered no way a v3 susanoo is tanking anything like that especially when it was tooken out by hirudora by. Kirin destructive wise is a tier above Hirudora/FRS but below the Bijuu dama tier. Already countered.
Maybe i did overuse the word spamm but dont act like you were not implying it in that thread. Slap youself Naruto saying it did nothing when physically their was some damage done only proves naruto wrong we anime characters take alot of things out of context concerning things like edos flakes is a sigh a damage thus it did something untill you can prove otherwise.
V4 susanoo has no feats (Its speculation it was used during Kirin. Its a tose up weather Madara used v4 susanoo or unstabilized susanoo to tank the bijuu dama) V4 susanoo has never been used for an extended periode of time its like a manga screen times means its durability is always questioned.
Almost gotcha
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Ask my disciples
Rasengan has shown to get very little stronger bm naruto hit Obito dead center in his face yet no damage was done to Obito's face whatsoever and dont even use the mask excuse his mask was already blown off before the rasengan exploded. . Anything towards the pains bodies should be laughed at
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and single punch killed preta these path durability is far less than that of the standard ninja's Deva path a clear exception.
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KidGamer65
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Only God knows how many times I've seen this excuse. If it can't pierce his body to begin with, you can forget about it doing anything to the cells in his body, which you need to get past the skin to destroy. Raikage's lightning armor was shown to be gone AFTER the explosion, meaning w/ the added boost from the armor, he was able to stop it from penetrating his body. Your argument implies that FRS was hitting him w/o the armor, and that is wrong, unless you think Temari's attack>FRS. Temari's attack cut into his body, yet FRS made no cuts whatsoever.
Cracks made from Rasengan.
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Cracks weren't there before, so the little "edo crack" part of your post is irrelevant.
Never said he didn't take damage, I clearly said he took superficial damage. Not the same thing.
He used Amaterasu for less than a minute at a time in both scenarios, and one Tsukuyomi. Susanoo's strain far surpasses both as per Sasuke's words. "It feels like every cell in my body is hurting" and no, that obviously isn't in a literal sense, doesn't change the point though. Not to mention Ribcage Susanoo>Amaterasu when it comes to strain, let's not compare the two, let alone the final stage of Susanoo. Not to mention your scenario has him rebuilding it, which takes much more chakra than just maintaining it.
He fought Danzo and didn't maintain V3 for even up to 7-10 minutes at a time, let alone holding up v4, and rebuilding it against someone who can use an attack that rapes a V3 Susanoo, with no drawback afterwards, if in a good condition.
Grasping at straws=/=Making a valid argument. I suggest you learn the difference.
If only there was evidence for the bold.
I said small Mountain or Large Hill, not a small hill. The Mountains Bijuu Dama blow up and the Mountains that Madara cuts are "legit" large Mountains. Kirin is nowhere near the level of that, nor is the Uchiha Hideout near the size of these Mountains.
You haven't seen it hit anything similar to said rock to even begin to make an argument that Kishimoto was inconsistent with it's power level. If you have evidence, then we can talk about disregarding the feat, otherwise I have no reason to ignore it or dismiss it.
I suggest you start understanding, cause that's my argument, not to mention it's basic. Lol.
-Chidori=Rasengan. (P2 Chidori=P2 Rasengan>>p1 Chidori and Rasengan, keep that in mind)
-Chidori does X damage on a boulder. Rasengan=Chidori, so it'd exert the same energy on said boulder.
-P2 Chidori and P2 Rasengan are stronger than P1 Chidori and P1 Rasengan.
-Chou Oodama Rasengan is many many many times larger than a normal Rasengan.
-Take the difference in size between Rasengan and Chou Oodama Rasengan, and apply that to the rock. Meaning the boulder grows to be the size of a large hill/small Mountain at best.
-Chou Oodama Rasengan would do the same amount of damage to that small hill/large Mountain that Rasengan did to the smaller one.
-Multiply that power by 25, and that's the barrage that hit Kurama. It'd deal to heavy damage to that large hill/small Mountain.
-FRS>>>>25 Chou Oodama Rasengan as shown by Kurama taking much more damage from the attack than he did from the barrage.
Thus FRS obliterates a large hill/small Mountain. Just like Kirin.
Once again you are using feats from a weaker version of FRS. So that point is null and void, not to mention FRS having an explosion that takes up half the CT crater=/=FRS being able to create a crater that large. As for the KCM example, that doesn't change anything. That only means that Naruto's FRS was focused on that area instead of it's energy spreading out, or it means that the force from that wind sphere is strong enough to blow up all those rocks and create that explosion, but since there are no rocks around to hit, it didn't create that effect. Either way, there's no reason to disregard the scan. Not like it has much impact as my main argument comes from the scaling. (Which were large fragments of the CT that was just destroyed)
If FRS is strong enough to toss large rocks that high up in the air (Higher than Mountains), then it's a good feat. Not to mention that wasn't just debris. That explosion is stylized similar to
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one. Both explosions, not debris.AoE doesn't determine the strength of an explosion. AoE only determines the strength of an explosion in comparison to other explosions. Deidara's C2 couldn't even take out Sasuke's wing, yet it's AoE>>AoE of FRS by far, so no. FRS not being able to destroy a large part of the hideout like Kirin did, doesn't mean that Kirin is stronger. Is C2 stronger than Jinton even though Jinton's AoE is nothing in comparison? Nope.
V4 Susanoo holds Yata by default. Kishi wouldn't have Yata be destroyed, and then hype it up to be invincible a few pages later. Makes no sense. So it was V3, not V4. All that means is that Kirin isn't as strong as you thought. Kirin is on FRS and Hirudora's tier when it comes to destructive power at the very most, no higher.
I wasn't. I said he can use it multiple times not that he can spam it.
It did nothing or should I say "it had no effect" doesn't mean that he took zero damage, because he was clearly on the floor for a second or two. It only means he took superficial damage. Sasuke pierced Ay's skin with Chidori, doesn't change the fact that he pretty much did nothing to Ay. Superficial damage.
Not necessarily feats from the Susanoo, just any kind of feat that proves your point....and no, it's not a toss up. Saying he tanked with V4 is like saying Hashirama tanked it with his body, since they used their defenses at the same exact time.
Lol, what? Not only does your image not work, I already know what you are talking about, and it never happened. Naruto never even used Rasengan on Obito after his mask came off for your point to be valid. Naruto hit Obito in the mask with Rasengan, and the mask absorbed all of the impact, thus his face was protected.
Since when was Preta, and especially the mechanical Asura Path far less durable than the human body?
Also, Kurama's chakra canonically makes Naruto's jutsu stronger, not sure what you are trying to argue here.
KingHashirama
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TRE MERCER
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Doesn't matter his body was still in contact(Similar to the 3rd Raikage) so my statement still remains if he was Edo like the 3rd Raikage he would have gotten right back up. Wait so the FRS that was used on the Raikage was senjutsu impowered how when it was used by KM Naruto? KM Naruto rasengans showed no superior damage/destructive capabilites to none KM. So wait fodders helping her jutsu is more powerful than Gaara Kankuro and Darui plus her wind tech? Stop. Bold is simply you not having a counter just saying.