[VS] Gai VS MS Sasuke

[KidGamer65]

How does dancing around it help him again?​

If it doesn't hit him, it won't hurt him. That's how it helps him. How exactly does it help Sasuke by not landing, if that's what you are implying.

 

[Haizaki]

Man some of you make me laugh...so Gai uses 1 At despite being extremely weak and the proceeds to use Multiple EE and we have this guy talking about 64 palms that has no relevance or whatsoever to this. EE puts strain on the body, that's why Gai stops after using 1...Does 64 palms do the same? No. Is EE stronger than AT?. Gates put him above his limit so he was physically able to produce those punches and also feel the drawback of just 1 which was far more taxing than 1 AT. I really can't go into Gai's stamina at the moment but if you really want to know, then screw it I'll body this..

I just read someone saying Enton Manipulation? At least post something relevant lol. 2 AT's bust open v4. Madara's V3 is superior to Sasuke's and yet Gai busted it open and still hit Madara with AT.

Susanoo gets weakened upon hit as seen with how Ay hit Sasuke's Ribcage with a liger bomb and it only cracked but then he used a chop to completely snap it because it was weakened. Now unless you think Ay's chop is stronger than his Liger bomb, then I don't know what to say.

 

[LuckyMan]

He hit Madara with the initial 5 steps, and then hit him some more given their worsened conditions, and Madara saying "Good, the evening elephant isn't enough"

I know he hit Gai with the initial 5 steps. What I don't know is what happened off panel with them while the fight broke off for Naruto to talk to his spirit daddy. Gai wouldn't have landed the last attack (the fastest one too, weird right?) if Minato and company didn't assist him in making the hole in TSB shield (he would have touched the shield and got himself erased) so how did Gai alone manage to hit him more off panel when all Madara had to do is wrap himself up so Gai can't touch him? Unless Minato and company repeated that same combo again to let Gai hit him (which they didn't because apparently Minato flew to his house and took a nap) I don't see how Gai managed to hit him with it more.

Nope. He started the technique twice. I don't see why he can't do the same with his other techs.

And your neji example is bad since each set has its own name. 2 palm, 4 palm, etc.

Where as 1 direct hit of ee is still considered ee.

He started it twice but didn't finish it twice. I'm not saying he can't use AT twice consecutively. I'm questioning whether or not he can.

Each EE attack also has it own name, step 1, step 2, and so on so not sure where you're trying to go with that.

 

[Brooks]

If it doesn't hit him, it won't hurt him. That's how it helps him. How exactly does it help Sasuke by not landing, if that's what you are implying.

For Sasuke to attempt to land a hit in the first place(using Enton)...Gai would have to come close(in which he's risking getting hit by Genjutsu), that's of course if he isn't planning to look the ground all day.​

 

[BenjerminGaye]

He started it twice but didn't finish it twice. I'm not saying he can't use AT twice consecutively. I'm questioning whether or not he can.

That shouldn't even be questioned, since he proceeded to a more strenuous technique after using ee.

Each EE attack also has it own name, step 1, step 2, and so on so not sure where you're trying to go with that.

Each hit is still considered ee. Where's only the last set is considered 64 palms. The previous sets are 32,16,8,4, and 2.

 

[Haizaki]

Dear Lord, TheInvisibleman is really denying Manga facts... Madara outright said it wasn't enough and he was completely in a different state from before..so was Gai as well as Kakashi and the others. Where Minato went is irrelevant when Kakashi was there to warp if that's your excuse for Madara covering himself when he did attack Gai ..Manga said it wasn't enough as Gai already resorted to a stronger techniqe. Hence it's not only factual that he used multiple EE, it's silly that he used something weaker when Madara survived his direct punch

 

[Bogard]

Regardless if Gai could use Evening elephant after Afternoon tiger, he still had a major drawback after firing that afternoon tiger that Jin Madara was about to exploit if Lee didn't came to save him, so firing AT is all good, but Gai should pay attention to the drawback of his gates against someone like Sasuke who can fire supersonic arrows at any time if Gai even left one opening. The Afternoon tiger always come with a drawback. The first thing Lee said when he saw Gai(after the battle against Madara, Obito) in a poor condition is that he used afternoon tiger and he knows his master better than anyone

 

[LuckyMan]

Dear Lord, TheInvisibleman is really denying Manga facts...Madara outright said it wasn't enough and he was completely in a different state from before..so was Gai as well as Kakashi and the others. Where Minato went is irrelevant when Kakashi was there to warp if that's your excuse for Madara covering himself when he did attack Gai ..Manga said it wasn't enough as Gai already resorted to a stronger techniqe. Hence it's not only factual that he used multiple EE, it's silly that he used something weaker when Madara survived his direct punch

I never denied Madara said the bold so how can you claim its a denial of manga fact?

Your saying Gai and company repeated the same combo (that already failed to put him down) on Madara again except this time it was without Minato and somehow Gaara carried Kakashi on his sand to Madara

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close without Kakashi being hit by the TSB (which is faster than the Sand and the reason FTG was needed to counter them in the first place) and everyone surviving in one piece not to mention the attack failing to put him down all over again, again?

If this is not what you meant then explain exactly what you're saying.

 

[Unorthodox]

Gai was able to pop out a Hirudora despite being at his limit against Madara. Gai was able to use Evening Elephant multiple times against Madara.

What did gai do before he fought Madara his last attack was hirudora and that was before the juubi came out he was replenished multiply times by kurama cloaks etc. Something that seems to be overlooked kurama explained that Kakashi was only able to warp gyuki because he had left over chakra from him and gai was in The kurama cloak during Bm first usage and had contact with kurama's chakra prior to that time meaning his hirudora attack power would be increased. 8 gates was his last stand meaning they're was no turning back after it so ofcourse he would push his absolute limits even at this risk of tearing his own body into pieces where is hirudora is one single attack and everytime he used it in the manga healthy or not he fell to the ground or was weakened severely. It was never implied he can use it more than once either.

How does dancing around it help him again?​

Right Hirudora = Focused wind pressured nothing but fuel to enton.

Regardless if Gai could use Evening elephant after Afternoon tiger, he still had a major drawback after firing that afternoon tiger that Jin Madara was about to exploit if Lee didn't came to save him

One of the few times we agree my dude

 

[Bronze]

Sasuke wins.

He was reacting to V2 Ay's speed and strike, and was able to construct Enton defence at the right time. Gai hasn't shown anything close to Ay in speed department. His feat with Madara isn't even worthy, given he got stomped seconds after. Hirduora couldn't kill Kisame (inb4 he didn't want to kill him, because there is no implication states Gai can control the raw power behind his attack, when it was the size of Island Turtle), and reconsider Hirudora under water is much stronger than Hirdudora on air, due to water being denser and creates stronger shock-wave. Not to mention he can't maintain 7th Gate for 1 minute, without having to exhaust himself later on.

 

[Unorthodox]

Sasuke wins.

He was reacting to V2 Ay's speed and strike, and was able to construct Enton defence at the right time. Gai hasn't shown anything close to Ay in speed department. His feat with Madara isn't even worthy, given he got stomped seconds after. Hirduora couldn't kill Kisame (inb4 he didn't want to kill him, because there is no implication states Gai can control the raw power behind his attack, when it was the size of Island Turtle), and reconsider Hirudora under water is much stronger than Hirdudora on air, due to water being denser and creates stronger shock-wave. Not to mention he can't maintain 7th Gate for 1 minute, without having to exhaust himself later on.

agreeing with Madara rules to today must be the day or something


Off topic - Look at evani kidgamer following ass

 

[KidGamer65]

What did gai do before he fought Madara his last attack was hirudora and that was before the juubi came out he was replenished multiply times by kurama cloaks etc.

What he did before is irrelevant. Gai looked to be at his limits by appearance alone. Does that look like someone who's at full health to you? Obviously not.

Something that seems to be overlooked kurama explained that Kakashi was only able to warp gyuki because he had left over chakra from him

It's not overlooked. It's irrelevant here.

and gai was in The kurama cloak during Bm first usage and had contact with kurama's chakra prior to that time meaning his hirudora attack power would be increased.

Nice try, but Hirudora doesn't use chakra, there is no way for it to be powered up, not to mention being in the Kurama Avatar or having contact with it=/=Being powered up by Kurama. I bet if someone tried to use this argument you are using, to say that Sasuke was empowered by Naruto when he used PS, you'd be calling BS on it.

8 gates was his last stand meaning they're was no turning back after it so ofcourse he would push his absolute limits even at this risk of tearing his own body into pieces

Irrelevant. The fact he can use a much stronger jutsu in a much stronger, and much more dangerous state, means that he easily uses more than one Hirudora.

where is hirudora is one single attack and everytime he used it in the manga healthy or not he fell to the ground or was weakened severely.

After he went out of Gates he was weakened, not after he used Hirudora. Not the same thing. The only other times he was weakened was when he used it at his limit, and when Madara knocked him on the ground.

It was never implied he can use it more than once either.

It was never implied he couldn't, and there's evidence that he can, based on his stamina.

Right Hirudora = Focused wind pressured nothing but fuel to enton.

Enton won't do anything unless it's strong enough to do so, which it isn't.

Regardless if Gai could use Evening elephant after Afternoon tiger, he still had a major drawback after firing that afternoon tiger that Jin Madara was about to exploit if Lee didn't came to save him, so firing AT is all good, but Gai should pay attention to the drawback of his gates against someone like Sasuke who can fire supersonic arrows at any time if Gai even left one opening. The Afternoon tiger always come with a drawback. The first thing Lee said when he saw Gai(after the battle against Madara, Obito) in a poor condition is that he used afternoon tiger and he knows his master better than anyone

That was because Madara countered with his staff and knocked Gai on the ground (Hence his broken ribs) not because of Hirudora. We've seen a perfectly healthy Gai use Hirudora, and he was perfectly fine until going out of Gated Mode.

And yes, if Gai is in Base, in a poor condition, then coming to the conclusion that he used Hirudora makes sense, because his strain is from Hirudora and being in the 7th Gate, not just from Hirudora, otherwise he'd be weakened right after using it, which he has never been unless attacked, or already weak.

I know he hit Gai with the initial 5 steps. What I don't know is what happened off panel with them while the fight broke off for Naruto to talk to his spirit daddy. Gai wouldn't have landed the last attack (the fastest one too, weird right?) if Minato and company didn't assist him in making the hole in TSB shield (he would have touched the shield and got himself erased) so how did Gai alone manage to hit him more off panel when all Madara had to do is wrap himself up so Gai can't touch him? Unless Minato and company repeated that same combo again to let Gai hit him (which they didn't because apparently Minato flew to his house and took a nap) I don't see how Gai managed to hit him with it more.

With what? He had no Gudo Dama to use as a shield. Minato took them all with him to Konoha. Combine that with the fact we see Madara in a worse state than he was before the manga switched over to the Hagoromo story stuff, and the fact that Madara says the Evening Elephant isn't enough, and you come to the conclusion he used it again...unless Madara somehow managed to injure himself. Lol.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Regardless if Gai could use Evening elephant after Afternoon tiger, he still had a major drawback after firing that afternoon tiger that Jin Madara was about to exploit if Lee didn't came to save him, so firing AT is all good, but Gai should pay attention to the drawback of his gates against someone like Sasuke who can fire supersonic arrows at any time if Gai even left one opening. The Afternoon tiger always come with a drawback. The first thing Lee said when he saw Gai(after the battle against Madara, Obito) in a poor condition is that he used afternoon tiger and he knows his master better than anyone

That was guy's second AT in 1 day and the 4th time he opened gates in 1 day.

AT dosen't have drawbacks if done by a fresh guy. We seen this in his fight vs kisame.

 

[QdonEms]

MS sasuke doesnt have enough feats to put him above 7th gate guy.

 

[Bogard]

That was guy's second AT in 1 day and the 4th time he opened gates in 1 day.

AT dosen't have drawbacks if done by a fresh guy. We seen this in his fight vs kisame.

I think he got some chakra from Kyubi or healed when the alliance came at some point(not sure though) even before those events, but i guess you're right with the Kisame example

That was because Madara countered with his staff and knocked Gai on the ground (Hence his broken ribs) not because of Hirudora. We've seen a perfectly healthy Gai use Hirudora, and he was perfectly fine until going out of Gated Mode.

And yes, if Gai is in Base, in a poor condition, then coming to the conclusion that he used Hirudora makes sense, because his strain is from Hirudora and being in the 7th Gate, not just from Hirudora, otherwise he'd be weakened right after using it, which he has never been unless attacked, or already weak.

Ah you're right, i just re-read the fight against Kisame. Looked relatively fine after firing that and even instants after. Seems that the drawback only started long after that, so he can probably fire multiple hirudoras while still in the mode

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Gai was able to pop out a Hirudora despite being at his limit against Madara. Gai was able to use Evening Elephant multiple times against Madara. Using more than one Hirudora isn't an issue

Especially considering the fact that against Kisame, Gai used Hirudora with zero drawbacks until way later after the fight, and maintained the 7G with no problem or sign of fatigue - not to mention that was immediately after using Morning Peacock on a huge scale. But of course, that get's disregarded every time by the same clueless clowns that know nothing about anything in regards to Gai and like to exploit war-arc events when he was already exhausted past the point of being able to stand on his own in a failed attempt to prove he can only fire a single Hirudora and hold the 7th gate for a minutes time.

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It's all rocket science though.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

I think he got some chakra from Kyubi or healed when the alliance came at some point(not sure though) even before those events, but i guess you're right with the Kisame example

Kurama's chakra can't heal the physical strain of gates.

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Heck even rikudo naruto with the seal can't heal gates if the #of gates is too high. It's been over 10 years but guy is still in a wheelchair.

Guy pushed to the upper levels of gates 4 times that day.
First to surprise obito with 5th then upped it to 6 for asakujaku.
Second was straight to 7 for Hirudora on madara's susanno
Third was with lee against the juubi
Forth was madara.

Then after that despite ripping his muscles apart 4 times in a single day and breaking multiple ribs against madara he pushed out the 8th gate to use ee at least twice then night moth.

 

[KidGamer65]

Especially considering the fact that against Kisame, Gai used Hirudora with zero drawbacks until way later after the fight, and maintained the 7G with no problem or sign of fatigue - not to mention that was immediately after using Morning Peacock on a huge scale. But of course, that get's disregarded every time by the same clueless clowns that know nothing about anything in regards to Gai and like to exploit war-arc events when he was already exhausted past the point of being able to stand on his own in a failed attempt to prove he can only fire a single Hirudora and hold the 7th gate for a minutes time.

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It's all rocket science though.

Lol, right. I feel like some people are pulling this nonsense on purpose. There is way too much evidence obliterating their points, yet the same ones sing the same old idiotic song, ignoring all manga fact.

 

[Unorthodox]

What he did before is irrelevant. Gai looked to be at his limits by appearance alone. Does that look like someone who's at full health to you? Obviously not.

How is what he did irrelevant Gai had a long break plus a kurama cloak witch make you fresh again ask kakashi who almost died from kamui overuse when naruto first broke Obito's mask. Gai appearance means nothing Kakashi looked like crap yet kept using kamui due to having been rebooted by kurama's chakra.

It's not overlooked. It's irrelevant here.

Yes i geuss it would be irrelevant because it does not help your case either way Hirudora power was boosted by the kurama chakra gai had came incontact with.

Nice try, but Hirudora doesn't use chakra, there is no way for it to be powered up, not to mention being in the Kurama Avatar or having contact with it=/=Being powered up by Kurama. I bet if someone tried to use this argument you are using, to say that Sasuke was empowered by Naruto when he used PS, you'd be calling BS on it.

Lmao i can tell you really thought the bold would help your case its still is nothing because Kurama chakra does not just boost your chakra is boost all physical attributes hence why Naruto physical strength always was boosted when kurama chakra overcame his body. Sasuke being empowered by Naruto is irrelevant when he used perfect susanoo why because even with the double cloak he was enable to use perfect susanoo yet when it was gone he was able to use it that makes no sense also kurama cloak only make the existing jutsu bigger/stronger not completely changes into its upgraded form thats like saying 7 gates gai empowered by kurama cloak can use 8 gates it makes no sense quit using fail logic and conceed already.

Irrelevant. The fact he can use a much stronger jutsu in a much stronger, and much more dangerous state, means that he easily uses more than one Hirudora.

Wrong again EE is a step by step sequence like Ben or whoever said reasons why Neji can use his trigrams in steps 2,4,8,16 etc yet rotation comes in one. And you said it best in a stronger state meaning he can use that ability much easier then he would be able to use Hirudora while in the 7th gate and lets say he can use it more than once gai always fall to the ground or become completely defenseless after one v4 susanoo tanks susanoo arrow or Amaterasu turns his weakened body to paste.

PS - Hirudora should not be compared to EE why because its the stronger power he can use in that gated form simple to why 6 gates will drop after he uses morning peacock beacuse thats the full power of the gated form Hirudora should be used as a comparison to night moth the strongest ability that gate can activate.

After he went out of Gates he was weakened, not after he used Hirudora. Not the same thing. The only other times he was weakened was when he used it at his limit, and when Madara knocked him on the ground.

He always lose his gates when he use Hirudora

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Gates came in went just like hirudora.

It was never implied he couldn't, and there's evidence that he can, based on his stamina.

Evidence has shown that gai cannot use his strongest move of the gated form more the once in that particular gated form you can try to deny all you want but 7th gates gai never used hirudora once nor was in any condition to defend himself after using hirudora on any occasion.

Enton won't do anything unless it's strong enough to do so, which it isn't.

Amaterasu directly to hirudora puts it out or expands the amaterasu we've already seen amaterasu takes the size of the target unless its to big (Juubi) if Ms sasuke can use an amaterasu the size of Gyuki amaterasu the size of hirudora witch is about susanoo size is nothing thus the amaterasu is expanded adding enton he can expand it himself. also Kirin is a 1 shotter.

Kurama's chakra can't heal the physical strain of gates.

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Heck even rikudo naruto with the seal can't heal gates if the #of gates is too high. It's been over 10 years but guy is still in a wheelchair.

Guy pushed to the upper levels of gates 4 times that day.
First to surprise obito with 5th then upped it to 6 for asakujaku.
Second was straight to 7 for Hirudora on madara's susanno
Third was with lee against the juubi
Forth was madara.

Then after that despite ripping his muscles apart 4 times in a single day and breaking multiple ribs against madara he pushed out the 8th gate to use ee at least twice then night moth.

Wrong in that scan is clearly says Kurama has no more chakra gai seemed fined the rest of the time when he was covered in a kurama cloak after using hirudora just right before the juubi came out and even during the course of the war look at gai and lee in this scan

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Then you bring up the 8 gates argument it clearly goes beyond basically killing or dying methods even Madara was surprise off the way gai was dying

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Gai's body was turning to dust and breaking open the fact that he had a body left shows how good that healing was

Especially considering the fact that against Kisame, Gai used Hirudora with zero drawbacks until way later after the fight, and maintained the 7G with no problem or sign of fatigue - not to mention that was immediately after using Morning Peacock on a huge scale. But of course, that get's disregarded every time by the same clueless clowns that know nothing about anything in regards to Gai and like to exploit war-arc events when he was already exhausted past the point of being able to stand on his own in a failed attempt to prove he can only fire a single Hirudora and hold the 7th gate for a minutes time.

I geuss you thought you had it figured out nope gai gates not going away proves nothing especailly when the hirudora that showed capabilities to burst open v3 susanoo was impowered by left over Kurama chakra because we've seen how strong hirudora is when its not fueled Kurama's chakra could even take out kisame or break a single bone in his body you can claim they wanted kisame for information but attacks such as hirudora have no showed to be able to hold back its like sasuke naruto can hold back the power of a flying rasenshuriken etc. Nope not happening so its goes like this multiply hirudora does not equal the one he used during the war because we have no kurama boost the ones he used in war can only be done onced then its game over for gai they'res also the enton and kirin argument just to much for gai to weather.

 

[Bogard]

Kurama's chakra can't heal the physical strain of gates.

Spoiler

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Heck even rikudo naruto with the seal can't heal gates if the #of gates is too high. It's been over 10 years but guy is still in a wheelchair.

Guy pushed to the upper levels of gates 4 times that day.
First to surprise obito with 5th then upped it to 6 for asakujaku.
Second was straight to 7 for Hirudora on madara's susanno
Third was with lee against the juubi
Forth was madara.

Then after that despite ripping his muscles apart 4 times in a single day and breaking multiple ribs against madara he pushed out the 8th gate to use ee at least twice then night moth.

Uh why are you bringing Rikudo Naruto here? All what he did was to stabilize the chakra in his heart. He didn't heal his physical state and never implied or showed the capacity to do so(reason why Obito died/couldn't be saved)

But like unorthodox posted, it seems Gai did take some Kurama's chakra. It seems that at that moment Kyubi's chakra was simply drained. It was activated later though and like i've said, medical ninjas also came at some point iirc

There is reason i have a hard time jumping in this Gai bandwagon. It's because the manga portray him to be weaker than Kakashi. Though yes, by feats he should win