[VS] Gai Sensei and Hyuga Hiashi takes the Gauntlet!

Draegod

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And how is he going to stop their heart? With Gentle Fist, and that requires him to land a sufficient amount of blows or make contact long enough to send enough chakra into her body, but any time he tries to land a direct hit Tsunade hits him and it's a wrap. Sakura can do the same exact thing.
lol Them slow punches would never in a million years land on Hiashi. That's not even up for discussion unless you can show me striking speed feats in which are beyond any taijutsu users reaction. Theyre the most linear fighters in the manga, sakura more so then Tsunade, easy to counter attack and thanks to instant chakra blast from any part of the body to redirect movements, its a sure shot tap to the heart. And from there its GG no Re. (haven't used that tphrase in forever bro. lol)


That doesn't make sense. It's transparent. It can be seen through already. So seeing through, i.e. what's behind and beyond it, the exact definition of x-ray vision, doesn't help. Same with Mu's jutsu. These aren't physical barriers that are hiding anything so seeing through them is useless.
Gengetsu uses water chakra wide spred to affect a ninjas visual to cast a genjutsu (aka cast illusions of himself as he moves through the chakra mist of his own chakra). Hiashi can literally fight with his eyes closed and use Xray effect to allow him to not be affected visually (fooled) and thus locate the Clam. Byakugan has been shown to see through any form of matter (chakra, physical etc), so he is easily able to evade the affects of Gengetsu.

Muu, He has a skeletal system? Yes? Then he is located no difficulty! lol That was easy





Kakashi can build up chakra for Kamui and warp said Kunai before it can cross a few feet and hit Naruto after being kicked by Obito.
How about we look at the initial manga fact of when he first started to build up a ton of chakra to spam Kamui in that battle.

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This literally just closed the notion that Kakashi doesn't first have to charge. And of that is the best non naruto chakra kakashi (War arc).



Same feat, except before Naruto and Obito can move reach each other despite it being initiated with them only a few inches away from each other.
Lol youre showing a stationary kakashi that has ample amount of time to build chakra and just watch the fight. Using the sharingan prediction to know when to kamui the rasengan... I have for a fact posted him on bees hand charging, and the entire time stationary just watching the fight (time alone to charge) to know when to use kamui.... Please dont say he doesnt need to charge bruh.



Then there's the feat against the Mazo.



By the time Hiashi has let Gai know that Kakashi is building up chakra, he's either going to lose a part of his body or the entire thing.
Oh yea, the feat where Naruto gave him a shit ton of chakra already? You have to use feats before naruto gave him any chakra in order for that to stand. Plus, the time they were talking and communicating to use that kamui on the mazo is more than enough time to respond to the chakra that isnt seen in that picture being charge. Him saying "Yes somehow" is the moment is is charging his Kamui (fact by the way). Thats enough time to say a single word for guy to blitz or save.



I'm kind of busy myself, so I'll try to reply as fast as I can.


All good, Im probably going to have to reply another day after this. I still will reply to some older post when I can in the futre, its just hard getting in the mood to talk about Naruto nowadays, especially since school has started again. Its taking me longer to find scans since I havent looked at the manga in a minute, so sorry if im out of date. haha
 

Hakke

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And how is he going to stop their heart? With Gentle Fist, and that requires him to land a sufficient amount of blows or make contact long enough to send enough chakra into her body, but any time he tries to land a direct hit Tsunade hits him and it's a wrap. Sakura can do the same exact thing.
The moment that Hiashi block a Chakra point he can simontaliosly inject Chakra so the Byakugou users would receive internal damage and Byakugou won't be able to do a shit about it as you can't heal using Chakra when the Chakra can't reach the organ.

Neji here have only blocked one Chakra point yet we see Naruto coughing blood which means that Neji also injected Chakra at the same time.
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The same thing happened with Kidomaru
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Also, The Gentle Fist have a wide AOE with stunning effect. Neji only used a finger to send Chakra through Hinata's chest all the way to the abdomen and did something similar to what he did to Kidomaru meaning even the slightest tap can give a critical opening.
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Draegod

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So the biggest Hyuuga wanker of this forum is back, can't say I missed you smh. Still, every time I see an old member here I'm happy, so welcome back.
lol Im not back, but thanks anyways. I wouldn't expect any other response from you, hope everything's been good on your end bruh bruh.
 

KidGamer65

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The moment that Hiashi block a Chakra point he can simontaliosly inject Chakra so the Byakugou users would receive internal damage and Byakugou won't be able to do a shit about it as you can't heal using Chakra when the Chakra can't reach the organ.

Neji here have only blocked one Chakra point yet we see Naruto coughing blood which means that Neji also injected Chakra at the same time.
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The same thing happened with Kidomaru
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Also, The Gentle Fist have a wide AOE with stunning effect. Neji only used a finger to send Chakra through Hinata's chest all the way to the abdomen and did something similar to what he did to Kidomaru meaning even the slightest tap can give a critical opening.
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What are you even talking about? Closing a single point isn't enough to stop them from healing nor is the bold how Byakugo was ever stated to work. If Hiashi moves in to try and close her points, she retaliates with a punch and he dies. That or he lets her press her point and uses that opportunity to grab and hit him, or just hit him.

If Tsunade can fight with Susanoo's blades in her abdomen I don't want to hear about a Gentle Fist poke from Hiashi slowing her down significantly or noticeably.


lol Them slow punches would never in a million years land on Hiashi. That's not even up for discussion unless you can show me striking speed feats in which are beyond any taijutsu users reaction. Theyre the most linear fighters in the manga, sakura more so then Tsunade, easy to counter attack and thanks to instant chakra blast from any part of the body to redirect movements, its a sure shot tap to the heart. And from there its GG no Re. (haven't used that tphrase in forever bro. lol)
Underlined is irrelevant as Tsunade doesn't need to hit faster than Hiashi can react in order to land a strike on him when Hiashi is the one coming straight at her. Where is "slow punches" coming from as well? In terms of striking speed they are average, and having linear fighting patterns doesn't denote inferiority. Tsunade was capable of crossing 10 or so meters and slapping away Madara's fireballs with her bare hands while Mei couldn't even make a hand sign and complete her jutsu. The former isn't possible if her striking speed is below average.

I'm going to need a scan of a Hyuga being able to propel themselves with enough force to validate that argument while idle let alone in mid strike. That and it doesn't really matter if he hits her as she'll kill him the moment he touches her as Byakugo heals all her internal injuries unless Hiashi blocks her chakra flow, which he cannot without 64 palms.

-Hiashi attacks.
-Tsunade meets his attack.
-Hiashi dies.

Same goes for Sakura.



Gengetsu uses water chakra wide spred to affect a ninjas visual to cast a genjutsu (aka cast illusions of himself as he moves through the chakra mist of his own chakra). Hiashi can literally fight with his eyes closed and use Xray effect to allow him to not be affected visually (fooled) and thus locate the Clam. Byakugan has been shown to see through any form of matter (chakra, physical etc), so he is easily able to evade the affects of Gengetsu.
X-Ray Vision lets you see through physical barriers. Hiashi fighting with his eyes closed doesn't help because he's still going to be using his eyes to see the battlefield, and everything he sees will be a Genjutsu as that is how the Mist works.

Byakugan has been shown to see what's behind any physical or chakra made barrier. I.e. Seeing through it. Seeing through a transparent mist is redundant as hell nor does it counter Genjutsu. Your post would make sense if the Mist itself created some kind of cloak that hid Gengetsu, but it doesn't. It is a catalyst for Genjutsu and anyone who sees it is screwed.

Muu, He has a skeletal system? Yes? Then he is located no difficulty! lol That was easy
But he can't be seen. So how does being able to see through physical objects matter? You seem to be under the impression that Byakugan's X-Ray vision grants some special perception when it is literally just this:

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Except Mu has no chakra or physical form. You can't see through or the skeletal system of an object when you can't see it in the first place.



How about we look at the initial manga fact of when he first started to build up a ton of chakra to spam Kamui in that battle.

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This literally just closed the notion that Kakashi doesn't first have to charge. And of that is the best non naruto chakra kakashi (War arc).
That's when he had to charge up to take out it's entire head. The smaller the item, the less chakra needed, thus the less that will be built up. Moot point.

Lol youre showing a stationary kakashi that has ample amount of time to build chakra and just watch the fight. Using the sharingan prediction to know when to kamui the rasengan... I have for a fact posted him on bees hand charging, and the entire time stationary just watching the fight (time alone to charge) to know when to use kamui.... Please dont say he doesnt need to charge bruh.
Kakashi being alone isn't proof that he was building up some massive amount of chakra. Kakashi has been shown to state or has been implied to have to build up a large amount of chakra every time he tried to warp a large object. Not when he's warped small objects and small people. Susanoo Arrow was used before Kakashi activated his Mangekyo and it was too fast for him to physically evade, yet he was still able to activate his MS and warp the arrow before it reached him. Not possible if what you were saying was true.

And even if Kakashi fell, Obito would take Gai and Hiashi out by himself without the need to take his eye back.


Oh yea, the feat where Naruto gave him a shit ton of chakra already? You have to use feats before naruto gave him any chakra in order for that to stand. Plus, the time they were talking and communicating to use that kamui on the mazo is more than enough time to respond to the chakra that isnt seen in that picture being charge. Him saying "Yes somehow" is the moment is is charging his Kamui (fact by the way). Thats enough time to say a single word for guy to blitz or save.

Naruto didn't give him chakra until chapter 608 or 609. All those are feats from before Chapter 600 except for the Gedo Mazo thing, and that was long after Naruto's chakra had faded from him, but I'll agree here since he already needed to build chakra to warp the Mazo.





All good, Im probably going to have to reply another day after this. I still will reply to some older post when I can in the futre, its just hard getting in the mood to talk about Naruto nowadays, especially since school has started again. Its taking me longer to find scans since I havent looked at the manga in a minute, so sorry if im out of date. haha
It's all good man. A lot of things are more important than this BS. :lol
 

Edogawa

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Round 1:Zabuza and Asuma
Gai and Hiashi low diff.

Round 2:Zombie Duo
The zombies mid diff. Hiashi is weaker than Kakashi whom was overpowered by the zombie's combo. Gai needs the 7th Gate to best them, but he can't since Hirudora, which failed to kill Kisame, isn't doing jack shit to the zombie's who are immortal and far more durable than Kisame.


Round 3:Neji,Lee,Sakura(WA all)
Neji, Lee and Sakura with high difficulty. Sakura will Chakra steroid Neji and Lee in similar qualitative level to what she did to Obito; that Chakra lending gave Obito to open portals that Kaguya, the Chakra God, was exhausting for overuse. A Chakra roid Lee stomps Gai and Chakra roid Neji stomps Hiashi.

Round 4:Ay and Tsunade
V2 Ay blitzes all of them.

Round 5:Gengetsu and Mu
Byakugan can detect Gengetsu's summoning, which disables the Genjutsu and can also detect Mu's invisibility; Gai can then beat them with the 6th Gate.

Round 6:Gaara and Ohnoki(No Shukaku)
Gaara and Onoki low diff. Obvious things don't need explanation.

Round 7: Obito(1 MS) and Kakashi(1MS)
Obito and Kakashi low diff.
 

Draegod

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Underlined is irrelevant as Tsunade doesn't need to hit faster than Hiashi can react in order to land a strike on him when Hiashi is the one coming straight at her. Where is "slow punches" coming from as well? In terms of striking speed they are average, and having linear fighting patterns doesn't denote inferiority. Tsunade was capable of crossing 10 or so meters and slapping away Madara's fireballs with her bare hands while Mei couldn't even make a hand sign and complete her jutsu. The former isn't possible if her striking speed is below average.
Why would Hiashi be the one coming at her, when she's the one who has shown to charge and NOT be a defensive fighter. Same with Sakura. Their attacks are slow and sluggish compared to the elite taijutsu users, fact! Having a liniar and openings in your attacks does spell defeat. Thats why she invented the byakuyo so she doesnt have to worry about defense. Her using her shunshin to jump and block a attack has nothing to do with taijutsu. (shunshin is ninjutsu btw)


I'm going to need a scan of a Hyuga being able to propel themselves with enough force to validate that argument while idle let alone in mid strike. That and it doesn't really matter if he hits her as she'll kill him the moment he touches her as Byakugo heals all her internal injuries unless Hiashi blocks her chakra flow, which he cannot without 64 palms.

-Hiashi attacks.
-Tsunade meets his attack.
-Hiashi dies.

Same goes for Sakura.
Not going to bother looking for a scan when its fact that a human sized mass zetsu was blown away instantly while wrapped. Zetsu is atleast 190-240 lbs, so neji (with far less chakra) easily repelled zetsu backwards why staying the centre of the force (not moving). Hiashi has all of them feats times two (double sized rotation). And you need to learn that they can expell chakra literally anytime they please with no warning at anyphase they please. While they are striking, they can unleash, while they cannot move a muscle, they can unleash. This isnt a "opinion" from fans, its fact.

Next, A stopped heat isnt "Internal injury". A stopped heart is death in a few seconds. A stopped heart needs CPR otherwise the brain suffercates. You are thinking the damage caused by gentle fist is just cutting, crushing etc. No, it is instant stunning effects.

And lastly, He doesnt only need 64 palms to block chakra. Where did you get that from? But, 64 palms easily lands and moves faster then any strike she or sakura has ever shown unless you have feats of them moving extremely fast in 2-3 seconds. striking so fast, you dont see them bending and moving at all during the end process 64.





X-Ray Vision lets you see through physical barriers. Hiashi fighting with his eyes closed doesn't help because he's still going to be using his eyes to see the battlefield, and everything he sees will be a Genjutsu as that is how the Mist works.
Byakugan has been shown to see what's behind any physical or chakra made barrier. I.e. Seeing through it. Seeing thro
ugh a transparent mist is redundant as hell nor does it counter Genjutsu. Your post would make sense if the Mist itself created some kind of cloak that hid Gengetsu, but it doesn't. It is a catalyst for Genjutsu and anyone who sees it is screwed.
Incorrect my good sir, X-ray vision lets them see through any and
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We have facts of it seeing through everything ever shown in the manga. Chakra, Mass, barriers, living organisms, earth, pure energy etc.

The way Gengetsu justu works is by using his chakra and the clams chakra (his chakra) to blend in the mist (fact) and disquise his presence, while the infinite amount of chakra is what fools the vision to casting facades (fact). I can use the databook or manga to show you, but please dont make me waste my time. lol To break it down further, No matter what, the xray vision will allow him to locate the clam and Gengetsu, unless youre saying the cease to exist on the planet. The mist is literally... I just know youre going to make me use the databook and scans.lol

But he can't be seen. So how does being able to see through physical objects matter? You seem to be under the impression that Byakugan's X-Ray vision grants some special perception when it is literally just this:

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Except Mu has no chakra or physical form. You can't see through or the skeletal system of an object when you can't see it in the first place.

Muu... He literally cannot erase his Skeletal system, organs, blood etc. He uses the light to reflect water droplets to decieve the eyes, floowed by cutting his chakra off from being sensed. (databook and manga). Byakugan has been shown to see bones in a human (which he has), he gets seen with no dificulty.

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That's when he had to charge up to take out it's entire head. The smaller the item, the less chakra needed, thus the less that will be built up. Moot point.
Yet you contradict the manga because on the same target he didnt have to charge for so long (when he ripped the arm, which is smaller then the head btw). WHy? Because he still had some of naruto's chakra. Plus, the time he talks before using the MS, is ample time he is using to charge his MS (fact from all MS users). And just like AMa can be seen/sensed charging, yet is "instant when excecuted", the same logic applys to kakashi eye unless modified with a buff (chakra of hashirama).

Kakashi being alone isn't proof that he was building up some massive amount of chakra. Kakashi has been shown to state or has been implied to have to build up a large amount of chakra every time he tried to warp a large object. Not when he's warped small objects and small people. Susanoo Arrow was used before Kakashi activated his Mangekyo and it was too fast for him to physically evade, yet he was still able to activate his MS and warp the arrow before it reached him. Not possible if what you were saying was true.
How is it not? Just because they didnt state it? Bro... It is cannon fact that all jutsu needs to be charged and create chakra from with in before it is cast. Unless youre stating kakashi is immune to Naruto universe rules created by Kishi, then I dont know what we're talking about.lol Ninjas will always use any time needed to create chakra in their bodies to intiate jutsu, shunshin, CES etc.

Susanoo arrow, was also reacted to by a old man with out the sharingan mentally. WHats your point? The arrow doesn't move faster then a human can think/talk (fact), and to create chakra build up, all i have to do is mentally think it up. The susanoo Arrow has been overrated on this site for too many years.

And even if Kakashi fell, Obito would take Gai and Hiashi out by himself without the need to take his eye back.
THis is all you had to say.lol I already conceded on this scenerio. lol


It's all good man. A lot of things are more important than this BS. :lol
Yea, SHit ton of things I have in the next month or so. Also, have you seen the new Naruto game where you can create your character? DO you plan on copping it?
 

KidGamer65

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Why would Hiashi be the one coming at her, when she's the one who has shown to charge and NOT be a defensive fighter. Same with Sakura. Their attacks are slow and sluggish compared to the elite taijutsu users, fact! Having a liniar and openings in your attacks does spell defeat. Thats why she invented the byakuyo so she doesnt have to worry about defense. Her using her shunshin to jump and block a attack has nothing to do with taijutsu. (shunshin is ninjutsu btw)
The only way he'll take her down is if he attacks. Can't win a fight if all you are doing is dodging attacks. Nothing even comes close to supporting the bold. We already know why Byakugo was created, and it's so the medic can safely battle without dying in combat as the medic is the most important shinobi in a squadron. Not because her Taijutsu style is linear. Rock Lee's style is also linear yet he's one of the best Taijutsu users among Naruto's generation. Linear=/=Bad. Linear=Easier to read than unorthodox styles.

Tsunade and Sakura are above average when it comes to movement speed, ergo their hits are above average in speed. The elite Taijutsu user's moves are more fluid and skilled than Tsunade and Sakura's, which doesn't automatically point towards superiority. That and Kishimoto thinks Tsunade's Taijutsu is enough to give her a 5 so your opinion about how it's "slow and sluggish and poor" doesn't hold.



Not going to bother looking for a scan when its fact that a human sized mass zetsu was blown away instantly while wrapped. Zetsu is atleast 190-240 lbs, so neji (with far less chakra) easily repelled zetsu backwards why staying the centre of the force (not moving). Hiashi has all of them feats times two (double sized rotation). And you need to learn that they can expell chakra literally anytime they please with no warning at anyphase they please. While they are striking, they can unleash, while they cannot move a muscle, they can unleash. This isnt a "opinion" from fans, its fact.
That has nothing to do with propelling themselves. Body blow releases chakra from the user's body, thus blowing away whatever is near him. Body blow doesn't cause the user himself to move as he is the epicenter of the force. So again, I'm gonna need a scan.

Hiashi and Neji's Rotation are equal in size so no, Hiashi's jutsu are all not 2x larger and stronger than Neji's. Blatantly shown during the War Arc.

Next, A stopped heat isnt "Internal injury". A stopped heart is death in a few seconds. A stopped heart needs CPR otherwise the brain suffercates. You are thinking the damage caused by gentle fist is just cutting, crushing etc. No, it is instant stunning effects.
And how exactly would Hiashi stop her heart? By damaging it with Gentle Fist. That's how the technique works. Flowing chakra to cause damage to the opponent's internal organs. That's useless when Byakugo is activated.

And lastly, He doesnt only need 64 palms to block chakra. Where did you get that from? But, 64 palms easily lands and moves faster then any strike she or sakura has ever shown unless you have feats of them moving extremely fast in 2-3 seconds. striking so fast, you dont see them bending and moving at all during the end process 64.
He can block points without 64 palms, he just needs to complete the technique to block her entire chakra flow which is indeed a fact. The rest doesn't matter. You don't need to be anywhere near as fast as something in order to react to it. Sasuke was nowhere near as fast as KN0 or KN1 yet he was dodging them with ease. Hiashi's movement speed is not enough to blitz Tsunade or Sakura, thus his advance is met with a fist and he loses as he can't clash against a Byakugo user's fist without his own turning to mush.




Incorrect my good sir, X-ray vision lets them see through any and
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We have facts of it seeing through everything ever shown in the manga. Chakra, Mass, barriers, living organisms, earth, pure energy etc.

The way Gengetsu justu works is by using his chakra and the clams chakra (his chakra) to blend in the mist (fact) and disquise his presence, while the infinite amount of chakra is what fools the vision to casting facades (fact). I can use the databook or manga to show you, but please dont make me waste my time. lol To break it down further, No matter what, the xray vision will allow him to locate the clam and Gengetsu, unless youre saying the cease to exist on the planet. The mist is literally... I just know youre going to make me use the databook and scans.lol
None of this is relevant. X-Ray Vision lets you see inside and through objects. He can't locate Gengetsu with X-Ray Vision unless he can see him to begin with, which would make this all pointless. Same goes with Mu. X-RAY VISION IS USELESS IF YOU CANNOT SEE YOUR OPPONENT. What do you even think those scans prove? Nothing but what i've been telling you. X-Ray Vision lets people see through and into objects. Nothing more, nothing less. That doesn't let him locate invisible targets. The mechanics are nowhere close to being the same.


Muu... He literally cannot erase his Skeletal system, organs, blood etc. He uses the light to reflect water droplets to decieve the eyes, floowed by cutting his chakra off from being sensed. (databook and manga). Byakugan has been shown to see bones in a human (which he has), he gets seen with no dificulty.

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Yes. Thus he cannot be visually perceived. X-Ray Vision lets you see into and through objects. It doesn't let you locate invisible targets nor would it let him "see through" the water droplets when the water droplets aren't acting as a physical barrier that's hiding his appearance. They are reflecting light away from him making it visually impossible to perceive him as light has to be shining on something in order to see it. That's how the eyes pick up visual signals.


Yet you contradict the manga because on the same target he didnt have to charge for so long (when he ripped the arm, which is smaller then the head btw). WHy? Because he still had some of naruto's chakra. Plus, the time he talks before using the MS, is ample time he is using to charge his MS (fact from all MS users). And just like AMa can be seen/sensed charging, yet is "instant when excecuted", the same logic applys to kakashi eye unless modified with a buff (chakra of hashirama).
Chapter 600 except for the Gedo Mazo thing, and that was long after Naruto's chakra had faded from him, but I'll agree here since he already needed to build chakra to warp the Mazo.
I already told you that I agree with the second Gedo Mazo feat needing him to build a large amount of chakra. The bold is based on nothing, and the rest doesn't matter as it doesn't connect to the rest of the point.

How is it not? Just because they didnt state it? Bro... It is cannon fact that all jutsu needs to be charged and create chakra from with in before it is cast. Unless youre stating kakashi is immune to Naruto universe rules created by Kishi, then I dont know what we're talking about.lol Ninjas will always use any time needed to create chakra in their bodies to intiate jutsu, shunshin, CES etc.
Where did I say that it doesn't need to be charged? Nowhere. I said that the charge time for warping human sized objects is too fast for Hiashi to yell out to Gai and for Gai to move him out of the way.

Susanoo arrow, was also reacted to by a old man with out the sharingan mentally. WHats your point? The arrow doesn't move faster then a human can think/talk (fact), and to create chakra build up, all i have to do is mentally think it up. The susanoo Arrow has been overrated on this site for too many years.
Keyword is mentally. Not physically. Mentally. Hiashi has to see the chakra build up, yell to Gai, and then Gai has to actually act. That's not gonna happen before a part of someone's body is warped. Gedo Mazo was already in Kakashi's crosshairs when it was summoned away yet it still didn't get away completely unharmed.

THis is all you had to say.lol I already conceded on this scenerio. lol
I still gotta address everything.


Yea, SHit ton of things I have in the next month or so. Also, have you seen the new Naruto game where you can create your character? DO you plan on copping it?
Oh shinobi strikers? Yeah I might. Depends on what game modes are available. I'm not trying to play a game that's 100% online.
 

Lord Tywin

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Xray vision allows him to see through the Chakra mist that is casting the Genjutsu. The clam and everyone there are physical objects. And the X-ray vision allows the user to see them through anything (whether chakra, pure mass, or pure energy etc).
Exactly. Mu's ability is to refract light rays around him. It says nothing about being able to refract x-rays. By logic this should be applicable, but then again manga didn't give byakugan the ability to see through muu's ability during the war when everyone was worried about Muu's ability. So in general no, Byakugan won't see Muu when he's using his camo, and it won't see through clam genjutsu
 
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