Gadien Sasuke(no sage chakra) VS BSM Minato

[KidGamer65]

He certainly is. Increased Chakra Control has yielded multiple ninja far greater speed and reaction feats and BM Naruto in general is far superior to KCM Naruto, not to mention his Flicker managed to deflect multiple Bijuudama which implies a greater force was exerted in order to do so which should correlate to an increase in speed.

He deflected those with his

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, not his Shunshin. BM Naruto has no reaction feat that far surpasses what KCM Naruto has done. He probably doesn't even have one that surpasses dodging Ay besides saving Kakashi and Gai from Obito, but even that would depend.

 

[lucario14]

Sasuke can only use PS Chidori w/ Rikudo Chakra. And even if we gave him the ability to do without it despite there being no evidence that he can, it's only on par with a normal Bijuu Dama from BM Naruto. BSM Minato's normal Bijuu Dama is much stronger due to Sage Mode let alone anything higher than that.

Preta Path is completely irrelevant. Not only can he not take in too much Senjutsu, how is he going to use Preta while using Susanoo? If he doesn't, he falls to Hiraishin tactics. Ameno isn't a game changer when BSM Minato>>EMS Sasuke's overall speed. Give them both teleportation and it's clear who wins.

Minato can hold his form for 8 minutes. More than enough time to beat Sasuke.

Why do you think EMS sasuke's PS is equal to BM naruto? Also the chidori PS has nothing to do with rikudou chakra and Sasuke's rikudou chidori matched Naruto's rsm bijuudama so I have no reason to believe Sasuke's non-rikudou chidori will not match Naruto's non-rikudou bijuudama (BSM). If you said it before just show me so you don't have to repeat yourself.

 

[ARGUS]

Read above your honestly not worth debating your the most washed up debater on this site Kifflom.

why is it that whenever i side against sasuke, you seem to have a huge problem?

no rikudo chakra makes sasukes PS weak as hell against the senjutsu avatar,
his slashes get blocked by the tails of the avatar with absolutely no damages,

and scaling down from the battle at VOTE, 2 TBBs from 50% kurama shrugged off the entire side of sasukes PS,
now we add the senjutsu buff, and minatos TBB would damage sasukse PS much worse, flash TBB would bust it open, and leave him a fodder,

rinnegan techniques are non factor when he cant use preta inside susanoo, amenos physical attacks are tanked, and he has no means of physicallly evading minatos attacks, added with shadow clones and he gets wrecked

 

[NarutoX28]

He deflected those with his

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, not his Shunshin. BM Naruto has no reaction feat that far surpasses what KCM Naruto has done. He probably doesn't even have one that surpasses dodging Ay besides saving Kakashi and Gai from Obito, but even that would depend.

Sure, but Bijuu Enhancements don't enhance reaction feats (in terms of perception), but generally do enhances one's speed and reaction speed . Awakening Bijuu Mode implies greater Chakra Control and Mastery over their Bijuu hence why Naruto can release more chakra which should thus enhance his Flicker at the very least.

But even then, both Gai and Kakashi's reactions imply that his Flicker used on the Bijuudama was an incredible speed feat.

 

[KidGamer65]

Why do you think EMS sasuke's PS is equal to BM naruto? Also the chidori PS has nothing to do with rikudou chakra and Sasuke's rikudou chidori matched Naruto's rsm bijuudama so I have no reason to believe Sasuke's non-rikudou chidori will not match Naruto's non-rikudou bijuudama (BSM). If you said it before just show me so you don't have to repeat yourself.

Because, it was shown at VoTE.

Bold is based off nothing. EMS Sasuke does not have the feat of using PS Chidori thus he does not get it as there is no logical reasoning anyone can bring that'd allow him to use it when he's only done it with Hagoromo's chakra. The rest is wrong. He scales down to BM, not BSM. It's short, so I might as well just say it again. RSM Naruto isn't BSM Naruto+Hagoromo's Senjutsu. He's BM Naruto+Hagoromo's Senjutsu. His Sage Mode before doesn't go towards the power that makes up his RSM since it's not internal like Kurama's power and Hagoromo's Senjutsu is. Hagoromo's power basically replaced/enhanced his Sage Mode.

So PS Chidori=Bijuu Dama. Not Senjutsu Bijuu Dama. Just how Sasuke's PS=Naruto's BM Avatar, not his BSM Avatar.

Sure, but Bijuu Enhancements don't enhance reaction feats (in terms of perception), but generally do enhances one's speed and reaction speed . Awakening Bijuu Mode implies greater Chakra Control and Mastery over their Bijuu hence why Naruto can release more chakra which should thus enhance his Flicker at the very least.

But even then, both Gai and Kakashi's reactions imply that his Flicker used on the Bijuudama was an incredible speed feat.

Nope. Awakening Bijuu Mode has nothing to do with chakra control, not to mention the mode is the same as KCM. The only time it's different is when Naruto manifests Kurama. Him being capable manifesting Kurama in that stage is the only reason why his cloak would change. If he's faster, then the difference is negligible.

It being an incredible speed feat doesn't mean anything when KCM Naruto was capable of incredible speed feats. The point is, is that better than what KCM Naruto can do?

 

[TRE MERCER]

Minato eats him for breakfast. He's basically EMS Sasuke w/ Rinnegan if he has no Rikudo Chakra. Ameno is nice and all, but it's useless when he himself is slower than Minato, who can also teleport. Not to mention it's useless when Minato has his Avatar up, since Sasuke has no attack that'd do any serious damage to him while Bijuu Dama from BSM Minato would do heavy damage if charged.

No......

Doesn't really matter if he's slower than Minato when he can bring his opponent to him.(

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)-(

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). Both scans of him bringing his opponent to him so i really don't see why he wouldn't be able to pull Minato out of his Avatar. Slower than Minato you might be on to something here. Um no attack that can do any damage? CT which would just auto attract to him weather he use FTG or not the rocks will continue to follow him. Ps can't deal no real damage to his Kurama avatar? Any projectiles are completely useless to use on Sasuke when he has Ameno so Bijuudama's aren't going to work for him not when switch places with the Bijuudama's once they get near rendering them useless. If he tries to charge one up Amaterasu lights him up.​

 

[KidGamer65]

No......

Doesn't really matter if he's slower than Minato when he can bring his opponent to him.(

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)-(

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). Both scans of him bringing his opponent to him so i really don't see why he wouldn't be able to pull Minato out of his Avatar. Slower than Minato you might be on to something here. Um no attack that can do any damage? CT which would just auto attract to him weather he use FTG or not the rocks will continue to follow him. Ps can't deal no real damage to his Kurama avatar? Any projectiles are completely useless to use on Sasuke when he has Ameno so Bijuudama's aren't going to work for him not when switch places with the Bijuudama's once they get near rendering them useless. If he tries to charge one up Amaterasu lights him up.​

Being able to warp Minato doesn't change the fact that Minato will pull a Kaguya and evade with Hiraishin. Unless he can blitz like he did to Madara, which he can't, there is no argument to be had on this point.

Smh. Bijuu Dama rapes CT.

Ameno has a cooldown. Minato doesn't have a cooldown. Not even going to take the Amaterasu point seriously considering a Tired Naruto w/ a V1 chakra cloak tanked the shit out of Amaterasu let alone BSM Minato.

 

[ARGUS]

Lol KG is shitting on all the uchiha clowns

 

[TRE MERCER]

Being able to warp Minato doesn't change the fact that Minato will pull a Kaguya and evade with Hiraishin. Unless he can blitz like he did to Madara, which he can't, there is no argument to be had on this point.

Smh. Bijuu Dama rapes CT.

Ameno has a cooldown. Minato doesn't have a cooldown. Not even going to take the Amaterasu point seriously considering a Tired Naruto w/ a V1 chakra cloak tanked the shit out of Amaterasu let alone BSM Minato.

Why can't he blitz like Madara? There was no movement at all Hiraishin isn't going to help him here. Kaguya reactions shit on BM Minato don't even go there for your sake. Yes a full completely CT not rocks auto spawning toward him and his Kurama avatar so him shooting Bijuudama's still won't help him when rocks will be coming at him from a 360 and just because he blows them up doesn't mean there going to stop.

Ameno does have a cool down time but BM Avatars don't even last more than 8mins so Minato will be obliterated sooner or later. why won't Amaterasu light up a Bijuudama while he's trying to charge it?​

Lol KG is shitting on all the uchiha clowns

Uchiha clown? Because im defending them?​

 

[KidGamer65]

Why can't he blitz like Madara?​

Because he's slower than he was w/ Hagoromo's power.

There was no movement at all Hiraishin isn't going to help him here.

So Sasuke attacking with Chidori isn't a movement? Lmao. You guys need to stop grasping at straws here.

Kaguya reactions shit on BM Minato don't even go there for your sake.

Kaguya being faster than Minato is irrelevant since Sasuke w/ Rikudo Chakra>>>>>Sasuke w/o Rikudo Chakra when it comes to speed. I've already addressed this in my reply to unorthodox. Canonically, RSM Naruto reacted to Rinnegan Sasuke's Ameno blitz. Take away Hagoromo's power from both, and you get EMS Sasuke+BM Naruto. Thus if EMS Sasuke used Ameno on BM Naruto, he'd be able to react, more or less. It's actually very possible that he wouldn't be able to due to the lack of sensing, but BSM Naruto would definitely react, same goes for BSM Minato, who is equal to BSM Naruto at the very least.

Yes a full completely CT not rocks auto spawning toward him and his Kurama avatar so him shooting Bijuudama's still won't help him when rocks will be coming at him from a 360 and just because he blows them up doesn't mean there going to stop.

Smh. You're talking about CT w/o cores? A feat that only Rikudo Sasuke has shown? Try again.

Ameno does have a cool down time but BM Avatars don't even last more than 8mins so Minato will be obliterated sooner or later. why won't Amaterasu light up a Bijuudama while he's trying to charge it?

Ameno can be used around 3 times before it enters a long ass cooldown. 8 minutes is more than enough to wipe Sasuke's Susanoo off the face of the planet.

Smfh. You were talking about Amaterasu lighting up Bijuu Dama? Well that's either worse or just the same when it comes to effectiveness. Amaterasu does nothing at all.​

 

[Apêx1]

Lmao. Just like the rest said, Kyuubi said that his eyes have such power and that his chakra is sinister. Similar to Madara's. He never compared the power of their chakra. He never mentioned power and chakra together. Power with eyes and sinister with chakra. Not to mention nothing states or implies that Sasuke's chakra is more powerful than Kurama's.



The bold has nothing to do with the potency of Sasuke's chakra. Like I've said, and others have said. Kyuubi never said squat about Sasuke's chakra being as powerful as Madara's. He said that his eyes have power in them like Madara's did, and he said that Sasuke's chakra is more sinister than his own, just like Madara's. You say that Hebi Sasuke as chakra "just as powerful as Madara's", even though his EMS Susanoo is nowhere near as strong as Madara's. Which wouldn't make a bit of sense if Kyuubi really did say that Sasuke's chakra is comparable to Madara's in the power area. No evidence that Sasuke's chakra is as powerful as Madara's as Adult w/o Hagoromo's chakra. Both being Indra's reincarnates isn't a good enough argument.




Completely irrelevant since OP stated that this is BSM Minato. Whether or not he can actually do it doesn't matter. OP's conditions trump.



How in the world does that even make sense? The Bijuu Dama is already on Minato's person while he's charging it up. How is Ameno going to warp it somewhere it already is? Especially when it's still being charged up. Kunai can't be destroyed by PS's shockwaves. Smh. The fact that it's so small while the AoE of the slash is not focused on the Kunai at all, and is humongous in comparison ends that argument. It could only cause the ground to break apart. Mokuton and rubble were still left behind. So how are Kunai going to be wiped out? Makes no sense.

Minato not being able to spam Flash Bijuu Dama is irrelevant. Not even sure what you mean by the term "spam". If you mean that he can't use it over and over again, then you'd have to actually provide some kind of reasoning for that.





Yeah, it does. That only means that the boost isn't as great as you'd assume that it would be based on Obito's statement.




Read above.



What are you talking about? Minato can use Flash Bijuu Dama as long as he has chakra to use Flash Bijuu Dama. Considering the amount that a flash Bijuu Dama takes up is far far below Kurama's total reserves, I think it's safe to say that he can use it as many times as he wants before his time limit is up. Then there's the fact that Ameno has a cooldown. Minato has no cooldown. If he keeps spamming it to deal with Flash Bijuu Dama (a plan that doesn't even work anyway) after 3-4 uses, he's stuck on a long cooldown like he was vs. Kaguya, and with no way to evade BD.



The best speed feat I can recall from BM Naruto is when he used Flash Shunshin to save Kakashi and Gai. Not sure if that trumps him evading V2 Ay point blank. Naruto only kept up with Juubito via his reaction speed and Kurama Avatar's movement speed, and considering Sage Mode is a huge boost to speed and reactions, I'm not really that surprised. If he were keeping up physically than something would be up.

If you are going to deny the likelihood of Sasuke being as powerful as Madara when they are around the same age then there's no reason for me to debate anything here. I'll agree to disagree as Gaiden Sasuke with no Sage Chakra is apparently an unquantifiable shinobi as implications are irrelevant smh. It's a manga fact that sinister chakra is more powerful then normal chakra [

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][

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]. Hence when it's sinisterly comparable to Madara's, it can mean the power of their chakra is comparable as Obito implies they are in a direct relationship to one another. There's also the fact that Sasuke's chakra during Hebi was already powerful enough to suppress Kurama's chakra, which Kurama noted as 'impossibly' [

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]. If you choose to still deny this, the fact that they are parallels, the fact that they both are Indra's reincarnates and possess the Chuko Tomoe, then I will assume you are actually waiting for me to bring you a manga scan from Gaiden in which Sasuke outright states "if i didn't have Sage chakra I'd roughly be on Madara's level."

 

[Kagustuchi]

Thus if EMS Sasuke used Ameno on BM Naruto, he'd be able to react, more or less. It's actually very possible that he wouldn't be able to due to the lack of sensing, but BSM Naruto would definitely react, same goes for BSM Minato, who is equal to BSM Naruto at the very least.

BM Naruto can sense [

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]

 

[TRE MERCER]

Because he's slower than he was w/ Hagoromo's power.




So Sasuke attacking with Chidori isn't a movement? Lmao. You guys need to stop grasping at straws here.




Kaguya being faster than Minato is irrelevant since Sasuke w/ Rikudo Chakra>>>>>Sasuke w/o Rikudo Chakra when it comes to speed. I've already addressed this in my reply to unorthodox. Canonically, RSM Naruto reacted to Rinnegan Sasuke's Ameno blitz. Take away Hagoromo's power from both, and you get EMS Sasuke+BM Naruto. Thus if EMS Sasuke used Ameno on BM Naruto, he'd be able to react, more or less. It's actually very possible that he wouldn't be able to due to the lack of sensing, but BSM Naruto would definitely react, same goes for BSM Minato, who is equal to BSM Naruto at the very least.

There was no movement he pulled Madara inbetween him and Naruto clearly.(

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). But then again you don't believe ftg can spawn seal either we debated this awhile back and you lost terribly. Also he's shown the ability to spawn/swap weapons inside of the target G.E Madara.(

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). Don't give me that Madara ran into the blade when infact Sasuke was still on the ground when he used Ameno.(

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). Yes if he teleports but not if he brings Naruto to him im not sure why you can't seem to get that through your head.​

Smh. You're talking about CT w/o cores? A feat that only Rikudo Sasuke has shown? Try again.

Only Rikkudo Sasuke has Ameno but your not crying about that why because you seem to think he has a counter for it. Don't try and bring that's an Hagoromo buffed feat unless you can give direct proof stating that Sasuke won't be able to do it without Hagoromo chakra.​

Ameno can be used around 3 times before it enters a long ass cooldown. 8 minutes is more than enough to wipe Sasuke's Susanoo off the face of the planet.

Smfh. You were talking about Amaterasu lighting up Bijuu Dama? Well that's either worse or just the same when it comes to effectiveness. Amaterasu does nothing at all.

So Minato is going to take Sasuke out within 8mins not a chance in hell. Bijuudama are either grabbed or thrown off course via Shockwaves and hands or they can become the core of CT and be ambushed by rocks before they can even get close. Sasuke then uses Ameno to get him and his Ps behide Minato which he's done so before.(

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). Once he gets behide him he spawns Minato on his Ps blade. He's not beating Sasuke at all and with the time limit given this becomes at stomp match.​

 

[KidGamer65]

If you are going to deny the likelihood of Sasuke being as powerful as Madara when they are around the same age then there's no reason for me to debate anything here. I'll agree to disagree as Gaiden Sasuke with no Sage Chakra is apparently an unquantifiable shinobi as implications are irrelevant smh. It's a manga fact that sinister chakra is more powerful then normal chakra [

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][

You must be registered for see links

]. Hence when it's sinisterly comparable to Madara's, it can mean the power of their chakra is comparable as Obito implies they are in a direct relationship to one another. There's also the fact that Sasuke's chakra during Hebi was already powerful enough to suppress Kurama's chakra, which Kurama noted as 'impossibly' [

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]. If you choose to still deny this, the fact that they are parallels, the fact that they both are Indra's reincarnates and possess the Chuko Tomoe, then I will assume you are actually waiting for me to bring you a manga scan from Gaiden in which Sasuke outright states "if i didn't have Sage chakra I'd roughly be on Madara's level."

There are no implications. You simply don't have evidence for your claims.Not to mention you keep on twisting what Kurama said to try and have your argument connect with your speculation even that's not how it works.

-Stop mentioning sinister and powerful in the same sentence. For the last time they are not the same thing. I don't know how many people have to come here and explain this to you. Sasuke's chakra being sinister means that it's sinister. That simple. Not to mention he never said that his chakra is just as sinister as Madar'as, he said that Sasuke's chakra is more sinister than his own, just like Madara. Meaning that they both have more sinister chakra than Kurama, not that their chakra is comparable. Especially since you claim that their chakra is comparable when Sasuke is in Hebi form and Madara is in EMS form. (which already sounds like BS) Then we have MS Sasuke w/ Armored Susanoo, who's chakra power>>>Hebi Sasuke's. Then we have EMS Sasuke, who's chakra power>>>MS Sasuke's at his strongest. So how are EMS Sasuke and EMS Madara still comparable after all those massive jumps? What's worse is that EMS Sasuke's PS is far weaker than EMS Madara's, showing the gap in power between them despite your claim that Hebi Sasuke's chakra is comparable to Madara's.

-Suppressing Kurama is irrelevant when talking about how powerful his chakra is in comparison to Madara's. It's clear as all hell that you are reaching here.

-Choku Tomoe is irrelevant. Those are abilities. Them sharing an ability only they can achieve doesn't mean that they are destined to reach the same maximum potential strength.

-And Indra's reincarnation is irrelevant. Stop using this poor logic. Naruto and Hashirama are both Ashura's reincarnations, but Naruto can't even hope to reach Hashirama's level without a Bijuu, nor can he even hope to reach Hashirama's chakra amount or the strength of his chakra w/o a Bijuu. Or are you going to argue that Prime Naruto should have chakra on par with Hashirama's just like Sasuke and Madara, based on the fact that they are both reincarnates. Smh.


I'm waiting for you to give me evidence. That simple. This whole post only shows me that you don't have real evidence.

What's funnier is that despite you have no evidence for your claims, I still addressed your arguments. EMS Madara loses, so does Sasuke even if you give him his Susanoo feats.

BM Naruto can sense [

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]

Sage Sensing is better for precognitive purposes.

 

[Kagustuchi]

Because, it was shown at VoTE.

Bold is based off nothing. EMS Sasuke does not have the feat of using PS Chidori thus he does not get it as there is no logical reasoning anyone can bring that'd allow him to use it when he's only done it with Hagoromo's chakra. The rest is wrong. He scales down to BM, not BSM. It's short, so I might as well just say it again. RSM Naruto isn't BSM Naruto+Hagoromo's Senjutsu. He's BM Naruto+Hagoromo's Senjutsu. His Sage Mode before doesn't go towards the power that makes up his RSM since it's not internal like Kurama's power and Hagoromo's Senjutsu is. Hagoromo's power basically replaced/enhanced his Sage Mode.

So PS Chidori=Bijuu Dama. Not Senjutsu Bijuu Dama. Just how Sasuke's PS=Naruto's BM Avatar, not his BSM Avatar.




Nope. Awakening Bijuu Mode has nothing to do with chakra control, not to mention the mode is the same as KCM. The only time it's different is when Naruto manifests Kurama. Him being capable manifesting Kurama in that stage is the only reason why his cloak would change. If he's faster, then the difference is negligible.

It being an incredible speed feat doesn't mean anything when KCM Naruto was capable of incredible speed feats. The point is, is that better than what KCM Naruto can do?

BM did allow his Bunshin to use a Rasengan sized BD with one hand, while in KCM he couldn't form it with both hands and 2 chakra arms. It even took a Bunshin and his original to make a tiny one in KCM. So his knead/release and his Chakra control definately got a big boost (as well as his pysical strength).

I don't want people to run with this speed argument though. I definately think he got quite a bit faster, but the feats are kinda sketchy. So the best that should really be argued for is that he got a little faster, if his cloak and everything else powers up so should his speed.

Sage Sensing is better for precognitive purposes.

No doubt, I was just pointing out that he can without Senjutsu.

 

[King Of Pop]

=KIFF;19281440]
no rikudo chakra makes sasukes PS weak as hell against the senjutsu avatar,

based on what? are you saying sasukes chakra is incapable of getting stronger after 15 plus years? i doubt would be that weaker but even so his ps took the combined attack of chidori and bijju dama from rsm avatar and came out with a damaged side. scale that down and it would take more tbbs to break it open and this is if sasuke just stands there and let the tbb hit him.

his slashes get blocked by the tails of the avatar with absolutely no damages,

ok.

and scaling down from the battle at VOTE, 2 TBBs from 50% kurama shrugged off the entire side of sasukes PS,

ok

now we add the senjutsu buff, and minatos TBB would damage sasukse PS much worse, flash TBB would bust it open, and leave him a fodder,

while minato charges up those tbbs, sasuke teleports behind his avatar head and slahes away at it or is he waits for minato to fire them and then at the last second he switches places with minato and thoses tbb hits him. or he keeps the fight purely cqc as he did with narutos avatar, minato wont be charging up tbbs in close range as he would damage himself as well. bm lasts for like 8 mins in which case minato becomes fodder and sasuke kills him.

sasukes ps was shown to fly at incredible heights in gaiden so its very agile. tbbs can be dodged

rinnegan techniques are non factor

ok

amenos physical attacks are tanked,

only in his avatar state however if he only has his cloak on then sasuke can damage him with his sword as it pierced clean through adult narutos bsm cloak so minatos is not any different. but other than that yeah

and he has no means of physicallly evading minatos attacks

his eyes have tracked a jj and struck at him when he was 17,so minatos speed is garbage in comparison, if he uses hiraishin to attack sasuke responds with ameno and cuts him down with his blade. this is if minato attacks head on without his avatar. he doesnt need to physically evade, all he needs to be able to do is evade mentally and then he puts up soosano or he counter attacks with ameno

added with shadow clones

shadow clones are fodder and gets swatted away with ps slashes.

and he gets wrecked[/QUOTE]
ridiculous. even if he does lose, he doesnt get wrecked

 

[KidGamer65]

There was no movement he pulled Madara inbetween him and Naruto clearly.(

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). But then again you don't believe ftg can spawn seal either we debated this awhile back and you lost terribly. Also he's shown the ability to spawn/swap weapons inside of the target G.E Madara.(

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). Don't give me that Madara ran into the blade when infact Sasuke was still on the ground when he used Ameno.(

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). Yes if he teleports but not if he brings Naruto to him im not sure why you can't seem to get that through your head.​

Smh. Sasuke tells Naruto to aim his Rasengan towards him. First indication that they had to actually move. Second indication are the impact marks that appear on Madara's sides. They thrust at him and then Sasuke warped Madara in front of him.

Are people still using this retarded "Teleport weapons INTO someone's body"? Sasuke switched with his sword, and his sword attacked Madara. DB already clarified that using Ameno with weaponry will let you attack with said weaponry.

Bold is irrelevant and false. Whether or not he warps or Naruto warps, he still has to be fast enough. He warped Kaguya right to him and what happened? Oh wait, Kaguya easily reacted. Stop wanking Ameno. The lengths you'll reach to try and prove your arguments is always amusing.

Only Rikkudo Sasuke has Ameno but your not crying about that why because you seem to think he has a counter for it. Don't try and bring that's an Hagoromo buffed feat unless you can give direct proof stating that Sasuke won't be able to do it without Hagoromo chakra.​

I'm still waiting for those feats. Ameno is a Rinnegan jutsu. He has Rinnegan here. The rest are enhancements of his abilities that he didn't show until he got Rikudo's chakra. So stop *****ing about me not giving him Rikudo Chakra Sasuke's feats when he doesn't have Rikudo's Chakra. Lmao, you people are so daft. Isn't even funny.

-Kakashi combined Kamui with his Shuriken, and attributed it with Rikudo's Chakra.
-Sasuke combined PS with Chidori. Guess what? He had Rikudo's chakra.

What's next? Are you clowns going to say that Naruto can make Avatar clones, take in the world's Nature Energy, and use BDFRS without Hagoromo's chakra? Smh.

So Minato is going to take Sasuke out within 8mins not a chance in hell.[/QUOTE]

Based on what again?

Bijuudama are either grabbed

SM Mokujin which is equal to Madara's PS in physical power can only grab a Bijuu Sized Bijuu Dama with it's hands. Thus Sasuke isn't grabbing Flash Bijuu Dama.

or thrown off course via Shockwaves

That doesn't even make sense. If he fires a shockwave straight ahead, it'll either explode or go backwards towards Madara. Since you can't prove that the shockwave can do the latter, it's either the former or nothing happens and Sasuke still gets hit.

and hands or they can become the core of CT

Rikudo Chakra Sasuke feat kid. Stop giving them to him.

Sasuke then uses Ameno to get him and his Ps behide Minato which he's done so before.(

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).

Which does nothing since Minato would just teleport away or tank his attack.

Once he gets behide him he spawns Minato on his Ps blade

That's not how Ameno works. He switches with a weapon and then it attacks the opponent. PS can't hurt Kurama, thus this plan is garbage.

He's not beating Sasuke at all and with the time limit given this becomes at stomp match.

​

Like I said, only the Uchiha tards argue that this is a stomp. Especially since your arguments are piss poor.

BM did allow his Bunshin to use a Rasengan sized BD with one hand, while in KCM he couldn't form it with both hands and 2 chakra arms. It even took a Bunshin and his original to make a tiny one in KCM. So his knead/release and his Chakra control definately got a big boost (as well as his pysical strength).

I don't want people to run with this speed argument though. I definately think he got quite a bit faster, but the feats are kinda sketchy. So the best that should really be argued for is that he got a little faster, if his cloak and everything else powers up so should his speed.


No doubt, I was just pointing out that he can without Senjutsu.

Lmao, how did I forget. Then you and NarutoX28 have a point. I'll agree that he got faster.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Smh. Sasuke tells Naruto to aim his Rasengan towards him. First indication that they had to actually move. Second indication are the impact marks that appear on Madara's sides. They thrust at him and then Sasuke warped Madara in front of him.

Are people still using this retarded "Teleport weapons INTO someone's body"? Sasuke switched with his sword, and his sword attacked Madara. DB already clarified that using Ameno with weaponry will let you attack with said weaponry.

Bold is irrelevant and false. Whether or not he warps or Naruto warps, he still has to be fast enough. He warped Kaguya right to him and what happened? Oh wait, Kaguya easily reacted. Stop wanking Ameno. The lengths you'll reach to try and prove your arguments is always amusing.

He told him that so they both can hit him at the same time but that still doesn't change the fact that he appeared on their techs clearly. Not sure why your still trying to deny the obvious. Even if his sword attacked Madara this isn't going to help your case because in the act of this happening to Minato he gets one shotted unless your think the sword was Hagoromo buffed Lmao. He was in med air when he warped Kaguya.(

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). Thus his speed was decreased and then there's the fact that he didn't spawn her to him. Once again comparing Kaguya reactions to Minato's L00l stop.

Please let's not go there with the wanking this is the same man that Said Sasuke's Hagoromo buffed Ps can't even squish the 3rd Raikage lmao. Also the Gedo Mazo can be one shotted by a Rasenshuriken let's not go there with the wanking.​

I'm still waiting for those feats. Ameno is a Rinnegan jutsu. He has Rinnegan here. The rest are enhancements of his abilities that he didn't show until he got Rikudo's chakra. So stop *****ing about me not giving him Rikudo Chakra Sasuke's feats when he doesn't have Rikudo's Chakra. Lmao, you people are so daft. Isn't even funny.

He clearly said Rinnegan Sasuke without Hagoromo chakra therefore he has all his same feats just without his chakra your claiming Minato wins then you complain when arguments gets thrown in your face Lmao stop. If Hagoromo chakra really granted you a core-less CT why didn't Madara display this feat? He still used the orbs. STOP winning and counter the argument.​

-Kakashi combined Kamui with his Shuriken, and attributed it with Rikudo's Chakra.
-Sasuke combined PS with Chidori. Guess what? He had Rikudo's chakra.

Baseless assumption on Sasuke's behalf.​

What's next? Are you clowns going to say that Naruto can make Avatar clones, take in the world's Nature Energy, and use BDFRS without Hagoromo's chakra? Smh.

This is all completely different from a CT it's not like he did this with PS or anything.​

The feats Sasuke displayed and the counters i've given above you clown.​

SM Mokujin which is equal to Madara's PS in physical power can only grab a Bijuu Sized Bijuu Dama with it's hands. Thus Sasuke isn't grabbing Flash Bijuu Dama.

Thus Ameno is brought into the picture once he tries that.​

That doesn't even make sense. If he fires a shockwave straight ahead, it'll either explode or go backwards towards Madara. Since you can't prove that the shockwave can do the latter, it's either the former or nothing happens and Sasuke still gets hit.

So BM Naruto can throw off tbb's while in his base form but PS shockwaves can't? Slap yourself this is the part of the debate where things aren't going well for you so your resort to idiotic non-sense. PS shockwaves throws the Bijuudama off unless you think Naruto mini tails contain more power than them l00l.​

Rikudo Chakra Sasuke feat kid. Stop giving them to him.



Which does nothing since Minato would just teleport away or tank his attack.

Countered. Minato bare body is going to tank a PS blade? SMH....​

That's not how Ameno works. He switches with a weapon and then it attacks the opponent. PS can't hurt Kurama, thus this plan is garbage.




Like I said, only the Uchiha tards argue that this is a stomp. Especially since your arguments are piss poor.

So Ps can't hurt Kurama? Yet you claim there on the same tier yet Ps won't be able to hurt it your making yourself look like a complete fool here. That's not how Ameno works l0l he's did it multiple times in cannon. Yes it is a stomp once Minato has no Kurama avatar.​

​

[TheSages456]

the scenario being suggested is impossible. the rinnegan itself possesses hagoromos chakra(six paths chakra). this sasuke is no different than the rinnegan sasuke shown in the manga.

if the rinnegan that sasuke is using is his own, that means that he gained six paths chakra in order to awaken it.
the only way this thread can make sense is if the rinnegan that sasuke is using is not his own, because there is no possible way for him to possess his own awakened rinnegan and not possess six paths chakra himself.

sasuke destroys minato with low diff.

 

[KidGamer65]

He told him that so they both can hit him at the same time but that still doesn't change the fact that he appeared on their techs clearly. Not sure why your still trying to deny the obvious. Even if his sword attacked Madara this isn't going to help your case because in the act of this happening to Minato he gets one shotted unless your think the sword was Hagoromo buffed Lmao. He was in med air when he warped Kaguya.(

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). Thus his speed was decreased and then there's the fact that he didn't spawn her to him. Once again comparing Kaguya reactions to Minato's L00l stop.​

They didn't appear on his techs. That's not how teleportation works. Not here, not ever. They thrust, and then he warped Madara in between them so they could hit him.

Stop comparing Rikudo Sasuke's Ameno to regular Rinnegan Sasuke's Ameno. He could blitz JJ Madara with it, yet he's nowhere near that fast w/o Hagoromo's power. The sword is moved by the technique. Not by Sasuke. Not to mention a sword can't even pierce the Kurama Avatar. All Sasuke's techniques are enhanced. What's pathetic is that you feel the need to give a buffed Sasuke's feats to a Sasuke w/o that buff since you know without feats he can't perform here, he gets slaughtered.

Kaguya's reaction speed is irrelevant. The point is, if what you were saying made any damn sense, then Kaguya wouldn't have evaded him twice. Kaguya did so because she is fast enough to react to Rinnegan Sasuke. Just how Sasuke w/o Hagoromo's power is slower than BSM Minato.

Smh. Mid air only chances his foot speed. Not his striking speed. Try again though kiddo. I think you can make yourself look dumber, since I'm sure that's your goal.

Please let's not go there with the wanking this is the same man that Said Sasuke's Hagoromo buffed Ps can't even squish the 3rd Raikage lmao. Also the Gedo Mazo can be one shotted by a Rasenshuriken let's not go there with the wanking.

​

I'm still waiting for you to stop wanking Sasuke and start conceding. Cause I already know you don't have any good arguments. Maybe you should leave the debating up to your other half and stop coming at me like you're stupid.

He clearly said Rinnegan Sasuke without Hagoromo chakra therefore he has all his same feats just without his chakra your claiming Minato wins then you complain when arguments gets thrown in your face Lmao stop. If Hagoromo chakra really granted you a core-less CT why didn't Madara display this feat? He still used the orbs. STOP winning and counter the argument.​

Lmfao. You sound stupid as hell. So OP restricted Rikudo Chakra only for us to give him the feats that required said chakra? Then why would he restrict it? Smh. Stop making these dumbass excuses. Stop whining and moaning about Rikudo Sasuke's feats and start giving me EMS Sasuke w/ Rinnegan and no Rikudo Chakra feats. Keep mentioning irrelevant feats and you'll keep getting the same replies.

Baseless assumption on Sasuke's behalf.​

Not really. He's only done it with Hagoromo's chakra, thus he doesn't get it without Hagoromo's chakra. Someone who showed the ability to combine their techs with their Susanoo like Sasuke attributed it to Hagoromo.

This is all completely different from a CT it's not like he did this with PS or anything.​

It's not different. Stop grasping at straws to make it seem like it's different, because it's not. Hagoromo's chakra enhanced the efficiency and power and abilities of their techs.

-Raikiri got stronger and got the power to warp like Kamui.
-Shuriken and Kamui were combined.
-Naruto made Avatar clones.
-Naruto was able to combine Bijuu Dama and Rasen Shuriken.
-Naruto was able to take in the world's Nature Energy.

The feats Sasuke displayed and the counters i've given above you clown.​

The feats he displayed when he was buffed by the chakra he doesn't have here you mean.

Thus Ameno is brought into the picture once he tries that.​

Ameno to what?

So BM Naruto can throw off tbb's while in his base form but PS shockwaves can't? Slap yourself this is the part of the debate where things aren't going well for you so your resort to idiotic non-sense. PS shockwaves throws the Bijuudama off unless you think Naruto mini tails contain more power than them l00l.​

How stupid can you get? BM Naruto slapped STANDARD BD's away. Are these two the same thing now?

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FOH clown. You sound stupid as fuck. The fact you've resorted to giving Sasuke feats he can't perform and now you've decided to say that Standard BD=Flash BD in size and strength apparently only shows me that your argument isn't going how you thought it would go, which is surprising considering every time you try to argue with me you end up getting shitted on.

Like I said, leave it to your best bud. At least the things he says aren't 110% bullshit.

Countered. Minato bare body is going to tank a PS blade? SMH....​

No, his Avatar will. Smh. Can you read?


That's not how Ameno works. He switches with a weapon and then it attacks the opponent. PS can't hurt Kurama, thus this plan is garbage.

So Ps can't hurt Kurama? You claim there on the same tier yet Ps won't be able to hurt it your making yourself look like a complete fool here. That's not how Ameno works l0l he's did it multiple times in cannon. Yes it is a stomp once Minato has no Kurama avatar.​

[/QUOTE]

-Scans showing PS failing to hurt Kurama with it's sword slash, the strongest thing Sasuke has available in this thread.

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Uchiha **********s argued that EMS Sasuke would chop through Naruto's tails like they were butter or something, but when canon takes a fat dump on their face, they ignore it and continue on with their BS wet dream fantasies. Sasuke hit Naruto's tails 3-4 times, yet no tail was even injured. How the hell is he going to "one shot" Minato's Avatar like you and your buddy have been saying when Minato has a Senjutsu boost here and Sasuke has no boost. His PS is on par with the BM Avatar at best, and he can't even hurt that unless Naruto/Minato were to sit there and let him land a bunch of direct hits, let alone the BSM Avatar.

-Kaguya vs. Ameno. Round 1

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-Kaguya vs. Ameno. Round 2.

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Kishimoto: Ameno is useless against Kaguya.
Fans who can't read the Manga (You): Hurr durr he can spawn directly on opponent instantaneously no movement requirred hurrrr"

Instant teleportation+an attack has never been instant and it never will. If it was, then Kaguya wouldn't have made Sasuke look like a fool twice.

And there is no "w/o the Avatar" Because the 8 minutes is enough for Minato to beat Sasuke. He just keeps using Flash BD till his Susanoo breaks open, and even if I agree that it's as strong as Madara's (which I've been arguing this whole debate) 3 of them and it's GG no Re for sure.