Gaara vs Mu

[Beans2]

Location: Where they last fought
Intel: Manga
Conditions: Same as when they last fought except neither side gets assistence, just a 1v1

Scenario 2: Location is Gaara vs Kimimaro

 

[Apêx1]

Gaara wins more times than naught, I believe. Mostly due to his Sand bunshin capability in my opinion, though I could be wrong.

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

Gaara wins the first scenario, but loses the second.

 

[super yang]

muu wins both scenarios w/ jinton.
muu has the attack range & tactical mobility advantage

 

[Forbidden Technique]

All that needs to be mentioned here are suna bunshins and sand sensing.

 

[Beans2]

All that needs to be mentioned here are suna bunshins and sand sensing.

What's Gaara's counter to jinton? I think Mu takes this low diff.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

What's Gaara's counter to jinton? I think Mu takes this low diff.

Suna Bunshins that Mu can't differeniate, number one. Number two, the fact Gaaras sand is a whole lot faster then Jintons prep. I think you're massive Mu fanboy.

 

[Beans2]

Suna Bunshins that Mu can't differeniate, number one. Number two, the fact Gaaras sand is a whole lot faster then Jintons prep. I think you're massive Mu fanboy.

Why can't Mu differentiate between them? Do suna bunshins split chakra evenly? Can Gaara even make more than one at a time? Gaara's sand speed is laughed at though. Mu > Onoki = Deidara's bird > Gaara's sand, and jinton prep only takes a few seconds. Gaara and Onoki were both about to be vaporized to death if Naruto didn't save their asses, nothing Gaara could do would save him there.

I think you overrate your favorites (like Gaara) way too much. You don't understand what other characters are capable of so oftentimes you downplay their feats. I even had to explain to you why Mu beats Tsunade and Sakura. I'm not a Mu fanboy like you claim, you just don't know much about him so you downplay his feats.

 

[juzumaki]

Muu takes it

 

[Made in Heaven]

Gaara ? Yep, Gaara .

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Why can't Mu differentiate between them? Do suna bunshins split chakra evenly? Can Gaara even make more than one at a time? Gaara's sand speed is laughed at though. Mu > Onoki = Deidara's bird > Gaara's sand, and jinton prep only takes a few seconds. Gaara and Onoki were both about to be vaporized to death if Naruto didn't save their asses, nothing Gaara could do would save him there.

I think you overrate your favorites (like Gaara) way too much. You don't understand what other characters are capable of so oftentimes you downplay their feats. I even had to explain to you why Mu beats Tsunade and Sakura. I'm not a Mu fanboy like you claim, you just don't know much about him so you downplay his feats.

Give me one example in the manga where a sensor has differentiated a clone from the original. Yes, I don't see why not. Not really though. Check your manga facts on that speed comparison. Again, check your manga facts and understand what happened because that wasn't the case at all.

Lol, Mu low-diffs war-arc Gaara is all I need to say here to make everything you said laughably ironic.

 

[Apêx1]

Oddly enough, Kawarimi no jutsu could have Gaara win this fight as well. And I'm not even joking here.

 

[Beans2]

Give me one example in the manga where a sensor has differentiated a clone from the original. Yes, I don't see why not. Not really though. Check your manga facts on that speed comparison. Again, check your manga facts and understand what happened because that wasn't the case at all.

Lol, Mu low-diffs war-arc Gaara is all I need to say here to make everything you said laughably ironic.

Sensors can detect chakra levels within people

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If a sand clone doesn't have the same amount of chakra in it as the original Gaara, Mu would

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and that one contains a greater quantity of chakra than the other. Completely different from kage bunshins which divide chakra evenly.

Mu > Onoki in speed. They both started moving at the same time

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but Mu reaches

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and we can see Onoki is already worn out while Mu shows no signs of exhaustion [

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]. On top of that Mu has great sensing which improves his reactions unlike Onoki who has no sensing ability. He was faster than any of the shinobi who were tailing him including Dodai who reacted to and outmaneuvered the Third Raikage

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Onoki is at least as fast as Deidara on his bird

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Deidara's clay bird consistently outsped Gaara's sand on multiple occasions throughout their fight, and Deidara even dodged it on foot as well

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Don't say Gaara's sand speed has significantly improved since Early Shippuuden since even Joki Boy easily outsped his sand

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Considering Mu has reacted to Gaara's sand assaults multiple times in canon, gaara's sand speed is laughed at

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Not to mention Naruto saved Gaara's ass twice from Mu in canon

1 - nothing Gaara could do with his sand to stop Mu vaporizing him from this distance

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2 - same exact thing happens, gaara can't do anything except prepare nearby sand for naruto to use as a springboard. Gaara can't do a thing to Mu at that distance

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Perhaps we have different ideas on what a low-diff win implies, but if a single jinton ends the match i consider it a low difficulty win for Mu

Oddly enough, Kawarimi no jutsu could have Gaara win this fight as well. And I'm not even joking here.

Because Kawarimi is effective against an acute sensor like Mu. Because Kawarimi is even a factor in kage level battles.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Gaara wins low difficulty...

Sand clones complimented by floating sand domes means not only can Mu not see Gaara he won't know which Gaara is in the real one. Gaara watches Muu every movement via third eye. Once he tries to fire Jinton sand rips him apart. ​

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Sensors can detect chakra levels within people

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If a sand clone doesn't have the same amount of chakra in it as the original Gaara, Mu would

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and that one contains a greater quantity of chakra than the other. Completely different from kage bunshins which divide chakra evenly.

So you have nothing then? I didn't think so. DMS Kabutos sensing couldn't differentiate the real Itachi from a Karasu Bunshin (uses less chakra then a Kage Bunshin), which tells me sensing can't differentiate clones. Mu couldn't differentiate Onokis Iwa Bunshins, so there is nothing suggesting Suna Bunshins are a special case. Dojutsu can see chakra levels as well apparantly, and no one barring Madara is capable of distinguishing clones.

Mu > Onoki in speed. They both started moving at the same time

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but Mu reaches

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and we can see Onoki is already worn out while Mu shows no signs of exhaustion [

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]. On top of that Mu has great sensing which improves his reactions unlike Onoki who has no sensing ability. He was faster than any of the shinobi who were tailing him including Dodai who reacted to and outmaneuvered the Third Raikage

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....? For this to be a valid claim, they both would have to be racing to reach this particular rock for whatever reason that does not exist. They both left the battlefield, and it appears that Onoki followed Mu to that discrete location. What do you expect...? Mu is an Edo that doesn't feal fatigue, while Onoki is in his 70's. Obviously Onoki is going to be exhausted after matching all thos Jintons with an Edo Mu. Yes, Mu's sensory abilities does indeed which gives him a jump start at reacting to things. I'll give you that. The only shred of validity you have here. Gaaras sand that was weighed down by heavy gold dust was suitable enough to capture the 3rd Raikage, so that example doesn't help you.

Onoki is at least as fast as Deidara on his bird

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Deidara's clay bird consistently outsped Gaara's sand on multiple occasions throughout their fight, and Deidara even dodged it on foot as well

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Don't say Gaara's sand speed has significantly improved since Early Shippuuden since even Joki Boy easily outsped his sand

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Yeah, until Gaara started using an abundance of sand to compensate, that quickly overwhelmed Deidara in the air. What you don't understand about Gaara is that his sand doesn't always move at a constant speed. It can increase or decrease depending on the amount of chakra he applies into it:

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Gaara can adjust his sand to a speed, hardness, and scale suitable enough to capture his targets. So you using two instances in the manga where Mu was able to avoid a very miniscule amount of sand doesn't mean Mu can always avoid Gaaras sand indefinitely. Far from it, actually.

In the scenario with Joki Boi, Gaara specifically said he didn't expect it to be that fast. Rather then wasting a whole lot of chakra adjusting the scale of sand to a massive amount and increasing it's speed, he opted into slowing it down with gold dust instead. Gaaras best sand speed feats were when it was being used side to side with Minato's FTG, Kakashi's kamui, and 8G Gai during the end of the war. So I have no idea in what fantasy of yours Mu is going to "laugh at" the speed of Gaaras sand.

Considering Mu has reacted to Gaara's sand assaults multiple times in canon, gaara's sand speed is laughed at

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Lol, ridiculous. Mu avoiding a miniscule amount of sand twice equates to him being deemed untouchable in front of all Gaaras sand attacks.... Wow. In your second scan Madara was able to avoid it as well, yet Gaara adjusted to his speed shortly after [

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]. As I already explained, the speed of his sand can be increased and adjusted accordingly.

Not to mention Naruto saved Gaara's ass twice from Mu in canon

1 - nothing Gaara could do with his sand to stop Mu vaporizing him from this distance

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2 - same exact thing happens, gaara can't do anything except prepare nearby sand for naruto to use as a springboard. Gaara can't do a thing to Mu at that distance

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Perhaps we have different ideas on what a low-diff win implies, but if a single jinton ends the match i consider it a low difficulty win for Mu

Gaara was fast enough to immediately get in front of Onoki as Mu initiated Jinton. He showed absolutely no sense of urgency despite knowing Jintons lethalness. So where you came to the conclusion Gaara couldn't do anything at that very instance is beyond me. Gaara was only surprised when he saw Naruto appearing beyond Mu, not because of Mu charing up Jinton.

Now go ahead and look at this scan closely:

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Gaara literally made a solid sand cloud out of the scattered grains of sand floating in the air way faster then Mu could charge up his Jinton. All Gaara had to do was replicate this very same feat on Mu's hands to disrupt Jinton and possibly catch him in a sand prison. Gaara was always capable of defending Onoki in the first scenario, only Naruto showed up out of nowhere so Gaara obviously opted into aiding him.

 

[heyguys]

mu stomps

 

[Lariatoo]

Whoa...
That's a tough one...
Gaara sand sensing makes Muu's ivisibility moot, but I don't know if Gaara is fast enough to avoid Jinton (since his defense ain't tanking crap).
But Gaara probably still wins more times than not due to Bunshins.

 

[To Whatever]

I believe Muu still takes this.

He can make Gaara's sand slower via ninjustu.

I'm not sure if Gaara can sense Muu when he's flying or not but I still think he can beat gaara.

 

[RicardoA]

Muu has the advantage in terms of firepower, but i'm sure Gaara would end up winning given his versatility (mostly because of his sand clones and sand sensing). At least more times than not.

 

[Beans2]

So you have nothing then? I didn't think so. DMS Kabutos sensing couldn't differentiate the real Itachi from a Karasu Bunshin (uses less chakra then a Kage Bunshin), which tells me sensing can't differentiate clones. Mu couldn't differentiate Onokis Iwa Bunshins, so there is nothing suggesting Suna Bunshins are a special case. Dojutsu can see chakra levels as well apparantly, and no one barring Madara is capable of distinguishing clones.

Burden of proof is on you, bro. I explained why it would make sense for a sensor to differentiate between clones if the clones had different chakra levels, it's up to you to show me an instance where a sensor couldn't tell the difference. And so far you only provided two examples which fail to prove anything.

1 - Mu couldn't tell a rock clone from the original Onoki? Show me a scan of that because the only time we see Onoki's rock clones are

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and we never see them again after that.

2 - ...it's pretty obvious that Kabuto didn't even realize there was another Itachi on the battlefield, he was caught up in the heat of the moment and didn't notice Itachi had made a clone. It's not that Kabuto couldn't tell the difference; he didn't notice the presence of more than one Itachi on the battlefield at all. Smh I already explained this to you once, I'll write it again here.

Let me start with saying that being a sensor does not mean you can necessarily track/focus/multitask on everything at once, and diversions still work. Point: Kabuto managed to

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but after being

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Sasuke was able to

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. If you look in the bottom left of that last scan you can see Itachi removing Susano'o, so that means that was the real Itachi and not a clone - so in the short time Itachi wove the seals for the clone which Kabuto stabbed in place of the real Itachi; a conclusion further supported by how the real Itachi was

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who was momentarily distracted by the explosion of crows. Kabuto was distracted because he was assaulted by Magatamas, pierced by a Susano'o arrow, swinging from the ceiling and solely focused on grabbing the sword, and he was also blind; so it's understandable that in the heat of the moment he was overwhelmed and did not notice Itachi create a crow clone. This does not equate to Kabuto being unable to differentiate between the chakra levels in a clone versus an original.

....? For this to be a valid claim, they both would have to be racing to reach this particular rock for whatever reason that does not exist. They both left the battlefield, and it appears that Onoki followed Mu to that discrete location. What do you expect...? Mu is an Edo that doesn't feal fatigue, while Onoki is in his 70's. Obviously Onoki is going to be exhausted after matching all thos Jintons with an Edo Mu. Yes, Mu's sensory abilities does indeed which gives him a jump start at reacting to things. I'll give you that. The only shred of validity you have here. Gaaras sand that was weighed down by heavy gold dust was suitable enough to capture the 3rd Raikage, so that example doesn't help you.

Maybe you should try looking in the bottom panel of that scan

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It's the exact same place where

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had just happened a minute before. No other jinton had been used at that point and from the clean cut shape of the rocks it's pretty evident that jinton cut them. Mu and Onoki's last relevant positions to each other before moving can be seen here

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It was almost no distance at all and Mu still reached his position long before Onoki did, you can make up claims like "Mu left for somewhere and Onoki followed him" when it could just as easily be the other way around; the manga shows them moving at the same time. It doesn't change the fact that Mu got there before Onoki did.

Yeah, until Gaara started using an abundance of sand to compensate, that quickly overwhelmed Deidara in the air. What you don't understand about Gaara is that his sand doesn't always move at a constant speed. It can increase or decrease depending on the amount of chakra he applies into it:

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Gaara can adjust his sand to a speed, hardness, and scale suitable enough to capture his targets. So you using two instances in the manga where Mu was able to avoid a very miniscule amount of sand doesn't mean Mu can always avoid Gaaras sand indefinitely. Far from it, actually.

Which changes absolutely nothing. If Gaara focuses more chakra into his sand, Mu senses a higher abundance of chakra mixed in with the sand and becomes aware of which parts of the sand are fastest and therefore which pose the greatest threat to him. The fact that Mu avoided a sand arm coming at him from directly below at almost point-blank range means that any assaults coming from a further distance away are reacted to easily. The fact that it was a small portion of sand actually makes the feat more impressive, since it takes more time to move a large mass of sand unlike a small amount which Gaara can use to quickly snag opponents.

Overwhelming Mu with huge aoe sand attacks like against Deidara won't work either. It takes longer to move a larger amount of sand, and Mu can sense it coming behind him

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(and still

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on his bird despite his bird's flight speed being slower than Mu's). You don't have any feats of Gaara's sand speed being fast enough to catch Mu.

If Mu can use weighted-rock technique (which he almost certainly can) he can also make Gaara's sand speed much slower by weighing it down [

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]

In the scenario with Joki Boi, Gaara specifically said he didn't expect it to be that fast. Rather then wasting a whole lot of chakra adjusting the scale of sand to a massive amount and increasing it's speed, he opted into slowing it down with gold dust instead. Gaaras best sand speed feats were when it was being used side to side with Minato's FTG, Kakashi's kamui, and 8G Gai during the end of the war. So I have no idea in what fantasy of yours Mu is going to "laugh at" the speed of Gaaras sand.

Tbh this is the worst excuse I've ever heard. You have no proof that wasn't Gaara's fastest sand speed. Gaara had no reason to hold back or preserve his chakra as the Mizukage was the last of the Edo kages to be sealed (or so Gaara thought.) Gaara didn't even come up with the plan of using his father's gold dust until later on in the fight. Joki Boy consistently outsped Gaara's sand, there's no other way to put it. "Keeping up" with FTG, Kamui, and 8th Gate holds no meaning here, those techniques are tiers above Gaara's sand in speed. Sakura was "keeping up" with Naruto and Sasuke, does that mean she is as fast as them? Lol, obviously not.

Lol, ridiculous. Mu avoiding a miniscule amount of sand twice equates to him being deemed untouchable in front of all Gaaras sand attacks.... Wow. In your second scan Madara was able to avoid it as well, yet Gaara adjusted to his speed shortly after [

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]. As I already explained, the speed of his sand can be increased and adjusted accordingly.

Yep, Mu's reflexes and evasion feats show that he can consistently outspeed Gaara's sand just like Joki Boy did, whereas you have no scans of Gaara's sand being fast enough to catch Mu. Yes Madara dodged that sand as well, Madara with great sharingan precognition and who

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.

Gaara was fast enough to immediately get in front of Onoki as Mu initiated Jinton. He showed absolutely no sense of urgency despite knowing Jintons lethalness. So where you came to the conclusion Gaara couldn't do anything at that very instance is beyond me. Gaara was only surprised when he saw Naruto appearing beyond Mu, not because of Mu charing up Jinton.

Now go ahead and look at this scan closely:

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Gaara literally made a solid sand cloud out of the scattered grains of sand floating in the air way faster then Mu could charge up his Jinton. All Gaara had to do was replicate this very same feat on Mu's hands to disrupt Jinton and possibly catch him in a sand prison. Gaara was always capable of defending Onoki in the first scenario, only Naruto showed up out of nowhere so Gaara obviously opted into aiding him.

Gaara being fast enough to move in front of a backbroken Onoki means nothing when the distance between them is still way too large for Gaara to span (

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. Gaara showed no signs of fear or alarm but he didn't show any sign of remaining calm or being fearless there either, all we see is his total surprise that Naruto suddenly appeared on the battlefield. Given that we don't see Gaara's reaction until after Naruto arrives you can't use him "not being afraid" as evidence that he could have dealt with jinton or the situation at hand, and from that distance there was clearly nothing he could do about the jinton about to vaporize him. Gaara was gonna be a dead man bro, the manga makes that crystal clear.

Gaara amassing grains of sand together to form a small amount of sand for Naruto to use as a springboard at close range does not mean he can make a cloud of sand appear out of thin air at a much greater distance to move Mu's arms apart and disrupt the jinton formation. Mu only needs to avoid Gaara's initial sand assault, move to a safe distance, then atomize him with jinton.