Gaara vs kakazu
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fourth kazekage
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and got killed by naruto when he was much more powerful,whats your point?,he tried to assasinate hashi,he failed and probably ran away.
Negative Knight
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Don't post Gaara again, we know you think he wins xd.
I'll prepare a counter once i'm free
genii96
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Negative Knight
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Its almost common knowledge that people think Doton Domu has surpassed Shikotsumyaku in terms of endurance but i won't go on this claim alone.
Gaara does indeed crush minerals but it would be beyond illogical to say he crushes diamond, in terms of durability Kakuzu's Doton domu is comparable to diamond whilst Kimmi's resembles tempered steel. The only thing capable of scratching another diamond, is simply another diamond. Now don't get me wrong, i'm not saying Kakuzu is completely impenetrable, Doton Domu is essentially an earth technique and so its weak to Raiton techniques. Otherwise, Kakuzu cannot be harmed by normal means.
Kakuzu's masks cannot break within his body unless directly hit, a sand coffin is an all around offense against Kakuzu's body. It would distribute all of the pressure evenly and so definitely not enough to simply shatter the masks alone. All of this is going under the pretense that Kakuzu would actually allow Gaara to do so
Kakuzu's displayed Lightning Release: False Darkness was indeed a B-Rank, but in terms of the sand vs lightning argument that's a moot point.
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, with Raikiri obviously being a superior attack due to Kakashi's own proficiency in using it. However, Kakuzu's Lightning mask was shown to neutralize Kakashi's Raikiri, whilst still leaving burns on his hands due to the intensity of the attack.Kakashi struggling to neutralize Kakuzu's Raiton Gian with Raikiri
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You might claim this doesn't translate directly to penetrative power, but sadly i've come prepared. Thinking back to Killer Bee's fight, his lightning enhanced pencil was enough to cut clean through a tree without ease. Now if you consider this pencil was used as a projectile and not as a melee attack, you notice that penetrative abilities don't only lie within melee attacks like Hell Stab and Chidori, but have wide implications on the element as a whole.
Logically, if an electrified pencil can penetrate a tree, than a Lightning spear which parallels Kakashi's Raikiri is capable of infiltrating Gaara's sand defense.
Killer Bee's electrified pencil cutting through a tree with ease
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For the large bulk of your argument, Sand does NOT conduct electricity.
Here, you're greatly underrating the scale of Kakuzu's own Fuuton. I
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, enough for me personally to see it countering a wave of sand without much difficulty.Another misconception about Sand is, it beats Fire Release without difficutly. While it was shown to be enduring enough of heat when faced against Amaretsu which is a heat intensive instead of a force intensive attack, Gaara would more than
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. The force behind the attack is enough to scatter his sand and put pressure on his defense.Remember, Kakuzu is capable of using each and every of his affinities directly from his body, the main reason he splits his hearts is because in every displayed fight he's been shown to be facing off against multiple foes, something he would need to response to by increasing his overall field presence. Using his affinities directly from his body would be an undeniable tactic used by Kakuzu to decipher the nature of his fighting style. Once he works out he's a scale intensive fighter, he would realize its best to simply keep his hearts merged and utilize his Fuuton to deflect Tsunamis while his Raiton would work to pierce through Gaara's sand.
When Kakuzu's Earth heart was broken he could no longer use Doton Domu efficently (he could only harden his arm) as opposed to his full body. This is evidence for the above claim.
Kakuzu using a Full body Doton Domu before his heart was broken
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If Gaara decides to/survives long enough to take to the skies, Kakuzu can take advantage of this by exploiting the fragile nature of Gaara's flight.
Gaara relies on a thin layer of Sand to alleviate him and carry him around the terrain, he doesn't possess flight himself and so is in a position of vulnerability. Kakuzu would see this as an apt opportunity to remove his masks from his body to pursue Gaara, attacking him from all directions with the separate elements. Sand alone wouldn't be enough to defend against Fire or Wind Release blasts and so Gaara would need to adopt a defensive stance when trying to tank the successive hits, however regardless of whether or not he decides to do so, Raiton Gian would seal the deal, penetrating clean through his defense and electrocuting him.
Later on, after your counter i'll proceed to add quite a bit more into my argument and throw in some theoretical possibilities regarding Kakuzu's own moveset.
genii96
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@ negative knight,
diamond is hard,not strong,you know you can take a hammer and crush a diamond right?,diamond is harder than steel,but steel is way stornger,so kimi's bones being said to be above steel while in base(not even counting CS) means it is indeed above doton domu in strength,not hardness. Also it clearly says gaara crushes the HARDEST minerals,not STRONGEST. Kimi's bones resisted samurai chakra blades in base IIRC,but the pressure exertet by a 13 yr old gaara forced him to go CS1 first,then CS2 for the desert requiem. Kimi's bones in base would easily pierce a tree,or rock.
Sasuke pierced gaara's dome of sand in the CE arc,by the SRA,kimi's bone spear,which not only tried to pierce but DRILL through the sand broke apart while in CS2,his bones resisted chakra blades n base.
Also to the common misconception,gaara's sand isnt weak to lightening,his defence in the CE arc cudnt take an A class iercing tech,by part 2,V2 A was said by karin to be at tailed beast levels,look how easily Raikage was stopped by a stream sand. Offensice raiton attacks are usually piercing,as chidori,raikiri,gian etc have show, A also pierced through hachibi's horn clean,so his attack indeed had piercing power,coupled with the fact that he was at tailed beast levels,mean that if gaara blocked him with just that amount of sand,then blocking sand spears which are obvously not as high a level,with even more sand would be done.also sand itself isnt conducting,but as you urself said,the minerals mixed with it increase it's conductivity,just like how impurities make water conductive,nullifying parts of the raiton chakra in gian,this would give a good explanation as to why he was able to stop A's kick while simultaneously blocking the ama spikes underneath,(lightening turns sand to glass,thus coupled with the heat of ama underneath at the same time would go through almost anything),also he has integrated some gold into his sand(gold in 3rd best conductor after silver and copper).
Fuuton katon combo would be blocked by sphere of sand,which protects him all sides and can be done mid air which rebutes your sand platform argument. Also do you see his fuuton blowing this away?
also,gaara's sand sensing jutsu allows him to tell when a mask is around him,it can be spread in a wide terrain,this essentially covers any weak points. Also once gaara senses a mask,he can attack it without looking,we saw him use sand around the clam when he cudnt see it,he was in a field genjutsu,so 3rd eye wouldnt work on the clam,he was able to warp his sand around the clam without having any visual contact and facing the mizukage at the same time.
Also you are underestimating his sand hail,it covers a large area,it would hit multiple hearts at once,those hearts arent as durable as kakuzu,and those large boulders of steel-like sand would crush them,especially as it falls continously,look at this
look how small his dad is,in comparison to the gold dust wall and sand hail dropping down. Those are multiple hearts gone right there.
While crushing kakuzu maybe hard,gaara has other ways to deal with this kind of problems. Apparently he learned from his fight with kimi,that some ninjas arent crushablexd,so he mad a few alterations, a pyramid to seal him would work,not even oil(his true weakness could do anything),or gaara could bury him deeo underground,he was able to go 200m when he was 13,now,we can agree he can go 500m . Also kakuzu cant move in this tech,and his hearts can get to him,gaara is able to handle several opponents at once.
You underrate his sand tsunami,how long did it take to do it against kimi?,that cudnt have been more than 2 minutes,and it changed an entire landscape from a forest to a sand box,now,he can do it way faster(IE seconds) he even did it in one panel against the kages. Also he can manipulate the sand while it is in motion,so he can attack any mask that comes while the tsunami does it's job.
He has become good at clne feints,he was able to create a sand clone and form it into onki to trick the mizukage the instant onoki destroyed the clam,the mizukage was looking blatantly at onoki when he did it. Also his clones can take full form of what he wants,his onoki clone looked just like onoki without any sand-like body properties,unlike vs sasuke when it was basically a sand body,he could fool kakuzu by having a clone take the form of himself while hiding underground to ambush him.
Also IIRC,the masks only shoot out balls of elemental chakra when seperated frm kakuzu,they could only do their strong techs when they joined with him,gian,and the others,even his fuuton/katon were done when they were joined with him,when they were seperated,they just shot out balls of chakra.
Your turn
diamond is hard,not strong,you know you can take a hammer and crush a diamond right?,diamond is harder than steel,but steel is way stornger,so kimi's bones being said to be above steel while in base(not even counting CS) means it is indeed above doton domu in strength,not hardness. Also it clearly says gaara crushes the HARDEST minerals,not STRONGEST. Kimi's bones resisted samurai chakra blades in base IIRC,but the pressure exertet by a 13 yr old gaara forced him to go CS1 first,then CS2 for the desert requiem. Kimi's bones in base would easily pierce a tree,or rock.
Sasuke pierced gaara's dome of sand in the CE arc,by the SRA,kimi's bone spear,which not only tried to pierce but DRILL through the sand broke apart while in CS2,his bones resisted chakra blades n base.
Also to the common misconception,gaara's sand isnt weak to lightening,his defence in the CE arc cudnt take an A class iercing tech,by part 2,V2 A was said by karin to be at tailed beast levels,look how easily Raikage was stopped by a stream sand. Offensice raiton attacks are usually piercing,as chidori,raikiri,gian etc have show, A also pierced through hachibi's horn clean,so his attack indeed had piercing power,coupled with the fact that he was at tailed beast levels,mean that if gaara blocked him with just that amount of sand,then blocking sand spears which are obvously not as high a level,with even more sand would be done.also sand itself isnt conducting,but as you urself said,the minerals mixed with it increase it's conductivity,just like how impurities make water conductive,nullifying parts of the raiton chakra in gian,this would give a good explanation as to why he was able to stop A's kick while simultaneously blocking the ama spikes underneath,(lightening turns sand to glass,thus coupled with the heat of ama underneath at the same time would go through almost anything),also he has integrated some gold into his sand(gold in 3rd best conductor after silver and copper).
Fuuton katon combo would be blocked by sphere of sand,which protects him all sides and can be done mid air which rebutes your sand platform argument. Also do you see his fuuton blowing this away?
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also,gaara's sand sensing jutsu allows him to tell when a mask is around him,it can be spread in a wide terrain,this essentially covers any weak points. Also once gaara senses a mask,he can attack it without looking,we saw him use sand around the clam when he cudnt see it,he was in a field genjutsu,so 3rd eye wouldnt work on the clam,he was able to warp his sand around the clam without having any visual contact and facing the mizukage at the same time.
Also you are underestimating his sand hail,it covers a large area,it would hit multiple hearts at once,those hearts arent as durable as kakuzu,and those large boulders of steel-like sand would crush them,especially as it falls continously,look at this
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look how small his dad is,in comparison to the gold dust wall and sand hail dropping down. Those are multiple hearts gone right there.
While crushing kakuzu maybe hard,gaara has other ways to deal with this kind of problems. Apparently he learned from his fight with kimi,that some ninjas arent crushablexd,so he mad a few alterations, a pyramid to seal him would work,not even oil(his true weakness could do anything),or gaara could bury him deeo underground,he was able to go 200m when he was 13,now,we can agree he can go 500m . Also kakuzu cant move in this tech,and his hearts can get to him,gaara is able to handle several opponents at once.
You underrate his sand tsunami,how long did it take to do it against kimi?,that cudnt have been more than 2 minutes,and it changed an entire landscape from a forest to a sand box,now,he can do it way faster(IE seconds) he even did it in one panel against the kages. Also he can manipulate the sand while it is in motion,so he can attack any mask that comes while the tsunami does it's job.
He has become good at clne feints,he was able to create a sand clone and form it into onki to trick the mizukage the instant onoki destroyed the clam,the mizukage was looking blatantly at onoki when he did it. Also his clones can take full form of what he wants,his onoki clone looked just like onoki without any sand-like body properties,unlike vs sasuke when it was basically a sand body,he could fool kakuzu by having a clone take the form of himself while hiding underground to ambush him.
Also IIRC,the masks only shoot out balls of elemental chakra when seperated frm kakuzu,they could only do their strong techs when they joined with him,gian,and the others,even his fuuton/katon were done when they were joined with him,when they were seperated,they just shot out balls of chakra.
Your turn
Brother Numpsay
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misconceptions of Domu Domu:
For one, it doesn't turn the body into diamond, it just makes it as hard as diamond. IF that was the reason then his skin would be shining like Diamond.
2nd: "Another misconception is the whole "diamond is brittle". Diamond cracks under sharp exertion of force not because it is hard, rather it does because it is brittle. Along with hardness, brittleness is another property of diamond. In engineering, hardness was never, is never, and will never be the same as brittleness. So Yes, diamond is brittle, but also hard, and the databook didn't say "Domu is as brittle as diamond". No where in canon was Domu associated with any other property of diamond besides its hardness. If Kakuzu were simply a giant diamond, Chouji Spiked Human Bullet Tank would have cracked him. That attack cratered the ground."
"diamond is hard,not strong,you know you can take a hammer and crush a diamond right?,diamond is harder than steel,but steel is way stornger,so kimi's bones being said to be above steel while in base(not even counting CS) means it is indeed above doton domu in strength,not hardness. Also it clearly says gaara crushes the HARDEST minerals,not STRONGEST. Kimi's bones resisted samurai chakra blades in base IIRC,but the pressure exertet by a 13 yr old gaara forced him to go CS1 first,then CS2 for the desert requiem. Kimi's bones in base would easily pierce a tree,or rock."
As I already explained above also I would like to add in strength feats from Domu with scans:
He took out an Iron gate with one punch
Kakuzu's Domu Durability and Strength> Kimmaruo
For one, it doesn't turn the body into diamond, it just makes it as hard as diamond. IF that was the reason then his skin would be shining like Diamond.
2nd: "Another misconception is the whole "diamond is brittle". Diamond cracks under sharp exertion of force not because it is hard, rather it does because it is brittle. Along with hardness, brittleness is another property of diamond. In engineering, hardness was never, is never, and will never be the same as brittleness. So Yes, diamond is brittle, but also hard, and the databook didn't say "Domu is as brittle as diamond". No where in canon was Domu associated with any other property of diamond besides its hardness. If Kakuzu were simply a giant diamond, Chouji Spiked Human Bullet Tank would have cracked him. That attack cratered the ground."
"diamond is hard,not strong,you know you can take a hammer and crush a diamond right?,diamond is harder than steel,but steel is way stornger,so kimi's bones being said to be above steel while in base(not even counting CS) means it is indeed above doton domu in strength,not hardness. Also it clearly says gaara crushes the HARDEST minerals,not STRONGEST. Kimi's bones resisted samurai chakra blades in base IIRC,but the pressure exertet by a 13 yr old gaara forced him to go CS1 first,then CS2 for the desert requiem. Kimi's bones in base would easily pierce a tree,or rock."
As I already explained above also I would like to add in strength feats from Domu with scans:
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He took out an Iron gate with one punch
Kakuzu's Domu Durability and Strength> Kimmaruo
Negative Knight
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I have to thank EjBlack for writing out the argument i more or less would of used to counter your idea of crushing Kakuzu using his sand. Along with the present feats of Doton Domu, Kakuzu also tanked by hit full force from a rampaging Two-Tails, which would of crushed any normal shinobi (including Gaara ) but he came out of the fight seemingly unfazed even after this occurrence.
Kakuzu tanking being crushed by the Fully transformed Two-Tails
The Aftermath of being struck (Top right manga panel)
You seem to misunderstand Doton's elemental interaction with Lightning. Sand is most akin to Doton in terms of composition compared to the other elements. Essentially Doton shouldn't have any weakness, with Lightning's penetrative nature being the only thing capable of breaking through such a structure. Its weakness essentially stems from being a solid element which can be cut with a higher penetrative force. The same reason Sasuke's Part 1 Chidori was capable of breaking Gaara's defense.
I'm not saying Raiton > Sand, but simply you need to bare in mind it can be pierced no matter how much its compressed.
As for Gaara's large scale Sand waves/Tsunamis, its common knowledge that these can be blown back with Large scale Fuuton attacks, so i'm not going to divulge into this any further.
As for clone feints and tactics, i need to go into this in more depth. Kakuzu was 91 years old and a keen analyst, experience has taught him to believe in maintaining caution, not rushing in but instead deciphering the nature of his opponent's fighting style before coming up with a suitable counter.
Shikamaru even complimented the plan he constructed to counter Shadow Possession without much effort, notice how he did so in the middle of the explosion, taking advantage of the opponent's own attack to benefit himself.
Kakuzu's plan to overcome Shadow Possession
Kakuzu's intelligence would be enough to work out how to counter Gaara's fighting style, while Gaara would have no knowledge on the extent of Kakuzu's own abilities. This would lead to a whole multitude of applications, not to mention realizing Gaara's automatic sand defense can be overcome by attacking from underneath him. (Remember, Gaara seems to fight opponent's on level ground. If they're aerial fighters he does the same, if they're ground borne he does the same. I'll link you to countless examples if you wish.)
Kakuzu has been shown that he can integrate his threads deep into the ground and unleash them from elsewhere in a relatively short period of time. His Earth Grudge Transformations would be the most ideal in doing so, and so switching to them he could fight from long range whilst avoiding Gaara's attacks.
Kakuzu Earth Grudge Fear Transformation V2
Now Imagine Kakuzu using such a transformation and integrating his threads into the ground beneath. He could simultaneously restrain Gaara without his sand's interference due to sand being incapable of breaking the hold Kakuzu has. Even moments contact with Kakuzu would prove to be fatal since his threads can tear into the bodies of others.
These are all theoretical since Kakuzu has many options in countering Gaara's fighting style, but his ability to attack form beneath would prove to be beyond beneficial in this fight.
Overall Kakuzu's experience has made him battle hardened and not a foe who goes down easily, the longer he lasts in a fight, the more he deciphers on his opponent and the better his counters to their respective fighting styles become.
I'm confident he's fought Sand users before, with his lifespan even dating back to the first ever Kage (Hashirama), he undoubtedly heard of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and possibly even 5th Kazekages. Bear in mind, Akatsuki had much knowledge on the Jinchuuriki and possibly has heard of Gaara's automatic defense.
All of these factors combined give a clear impression that Kakuzu would overcome Gaara's entire arsenal.
This is a relatively short reply due to EjBlack's given rebuttal.
) but he came out of the fight seemingly unfazed even after this occurrence.Kakuzu tanking being crushed by the Fully transformed Two-Tails
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The Aftermath of being struck (Top right manga panel)
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You seem to misunderstand Doton's elemental interaction with Lightning. Sand is most akin to Doton in terms of composition compared to the other elements. Essentially Doton shouldn't have any weakness, with Lightning's penetrative nature being the only thing capable of breaking through such a structure. Its weakness essentially stems from being a solid element which can be cut with a higher penetrative force. The same reason Sasuke's Part 1 Chidori was capable of breaking Gaara's defense.
I'm not saying Raiton > Sand, but simply you need to bare in mind it can be pierced no matter how much its compressed.
As for Gaara's large scale Sand waves/Tsunamis, its common knowledge that these can be blown back with Large scale Fuuton attacks, so i'm not going to divulge into this any further.
As for clone feints and tactics, i need to go into this in more depth. Kakuzu was 91 years old and a keen analyst, experience has taught him to believe in maintaining caution, not rushing in but instead deciphering the nature of his opponent's fighting style before coming up with a suitable counter.
Shikamaru even complimented the plan he constructed to counter Shadow Possession without much effort, notice how he did so in the middle of the explosion, taking advantage of the opponent's own attack to benefit himself.
Kakuzu's plan to overcome Shadow Possession
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Kakuzu's intelligence would be enough to work out how to counter Gaara's fighting style, while Gaara would have no knowledge on the extent of Kakuzu's own abilities. This would lead to a whole multitude of applications, not to mention realizing Gaara's automatic sand defense can be overcome by attacking from underneath him. (Remember, Gaara seems to fight opponent's on level ground. If they're aerial fighters he does the same, if they're ground borne he does the same. I'll link you to countless examples if you wish.)
Kakuzu has been shown that he can integrate his threads deep into the ground and unleash them from elsewhere in a relatively short period of time. His Earth Grudge Transformations would be the most ideal in doing so, and so switching to them he could fight from long range whilst avoiding Gaara's attacks.
Kakuzu Earth Grudge Fear Transformation V2
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Now Imagine Kakuzu using such a transformation and integrating his threads into the ground beneath. He could simultaneously restrain Gaara without his sand's interference due to sand being incapable of breaking the hold Kakuzu has. Even moments contact with Kakuzu would prove to be fatal since his threads can tear into the bodies of others.
These are all theoretical since Kakuzu has many options in countering Gaara's fighting style, but his ability to attack form beneath would prove to be beyond beneficial in this fight.
Overall Kakuzu's experience has made him battle hardened and not a foe who goes down easily, the longer he lasts in a fight, the more he deciphers on his opponent and the better his counters to their respective fighting styles become.
I'm confident he's fought Sand users before, with his lifespan even dating back to the first ever Kage (Hashirama), he undoubtedly heard of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and possibly even 5th Kazekages. Bear in mind, Akatsuki had much knowledge on the Jinchuuriki and possibly has heard of Gaara's automatic defense.
All of these factors combined give a clear impression that Kakuzu would overcome Gaara's entire arsenal.
This is a relatively short reply due to EjBlack's given rebuttal.
GiantShuriken
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Kakuzu would have his masks surround Gaara and shoot the shit out of him. It would be brutal. Kakuzu wins.
genii96
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@ negative knight
Jeez,you complain abt my long posts,yet you make threads to rebutexd
okay,my bad abt the diamond thing,i'll give you that.
Actually,gaara survived a meteor,so i think he would survive that too. Also,gaara has something called sand pyramid,which us basically an advanced version of sand coffin sealing. Kakuzu's doton would be useless against it.
Well,unlike earth,sand is an insulator,earth conducts electricity,allowing to move through it,whule sand does not,so thats one difference,and i beleive gaara stopped v2 A quite easily,despite him being in tailed best levels.
You know that on order to use thise giant attacks,the mask needs to be with kakuzu right?,as in the mask would come close to him and then he would do it,if they are far,they simply shoot balls of chakra with their affinity. So it's not like he shoots gian,and other of his super jutsus at the same time,when he released all his masks,IIRC,they a shot out balls of their affinity attacks,not any big jutsus.
Anyway,yes it can be pierced,but not by gian,seeing as just a small amount stopped the raikage,i beleive his sand sphere would block gian,or a sand wall infront of him.
His large scale attack blown back easily?
Look at this
this is he aftermath,look at the radius it stretches,
that wont be blown back as easily as you think,and gaara can still control the sand in the tsunami yo u know?,or attack kakuzu while the tsunami is coming.
could he blow that back?,i am pretty sure that even if he blow back a sand tsunami,gaara can do this first
to attack from above,giant wont get all of them,just a few,fire usnt gonna work,earth isnt and water isnt,so if he uses it to blow back the hail,gaara hits him with the tsunami,and gaara can just raise the tsunami upwards,like in the panel,kakauzu aint blowing that back,especially as he wont even know when it's coming,that was done by a wave of his hand.
Yes kakuzu has lots of experience,however,clone feints fool anyone,the mizukage was fooled,he did it in the blink of an eye to lee.the clone,looks just like him,uses sand moves as well,and gaara dosent make them obvious like naruto(i.e,naruto uses clones to fight,gaara hides them and uses them secretly),he wont know the difference,until he hits him,which like the mizukage would be fatal.
Also,gaara's sand shield isnt susanoo,it protects him from everywhere,kimi's bones came from under didnt it?,he reacted fast enough to make a platform for lee and himself. Also there is sand underneath him you know?,so it would protect him,and his sand sphere covers him from all sides.
Gaara flew against the kages in his opener,
he was flying while they were on the ground,so i guess he changed his tactics.
Also abt the hiding the threads thing,threads arent stronger than his sand which restrained an incomplete susanoo,also you forget that his sand is even faster,now that it is lightened by onoki,also,even if kakuzu restrains him,gaara dosent need to move a muscle to move his sand,and his sand armour would block those threads from reaching his heart,he could easily use his gourd sand to wrap kakuzu in a sand pyramid,assuming those threads touch him.
He has abother trick called sand sensing,those threads arent going through the ground and sand there without gaara knowing,also the sand under his fet would protect him as well,you know that it is not just his gourd sand that protects him right?. Also his reactions allowed him to block 3 entons from close range,
thats enough to prove that he can react to the threads.
The longer the fight goes on,the more sand gaara makes,and the nore advantage he gets.catching on to gaara's fighting style wont really help. He attacks from everywhere,and can attack from anywhere,he has no pattern,deidara didnt know abt his gourd sand until their fight,so kakzuz wont until the fight,gaara fights by waving hands,not handseals,a wave of a hand can mean anything,his sand hail would destroy at least 2 masks due to the range,he could so this right under kakauzu
or this
if gaara indeed gets overwhelmed,then he takes flight in his sand sphere,where kakuzu's threads wont matter,gaara attacks and defends at the same tme,so whil kakuzu is attacking,he would also be under pressure as well.
Jeez,you complain abt my long posts,yet you make threads to rebutexd
okay,my bad abt the diamond thing,i'll give you that.
Actually,gaara survived a meteor,so i think he would survive that too. Also,gaara has something called sand pyramid,which us basically an advanced version of sand coffin sealing. Kakuzu's doton would be useless against it.
Well,unlike earth,sand is an insulator,earth conducts electricity,allowing to move through it,whule sand does not,so thats one difference,and i beleive gaara stopped v2 A quite easily,despite him being in tailed best levels.
You know that on order to use thise giant attacks,the mask needs to be with kakuzu right?,as in the mask would come close to him and then he would do it,if they are far,they simply shoot balls of chakra with their affinity. So it's not like he shoots gian,and other of his super jutsus at the same time,when he released all his masks,IIRC,they a shot out balls of their affinity attacks,not any big jutsus.
Anyway,yes it can be pierced,but not by gian,seeing as just a small amount stopped the raikage,i beleive his sand sphere would block gian,or a sand wall infront of him.
His large scale attack blown back easily?
Look at this
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this is he aftermath,look at the radius it stretches,
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that wont be blown back as easily as you think,and gaara can still control the sand in the tsunami yo u know?,or attack kakuzu while the tsunami is coming.
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could he blow that back?,i am pretty sure that even if he blow back a sand tsunami,gaara can do this first
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to attack from above,giant wont get all of them,just a few,fire usnt gonna work,earth isnt and water isnt,so if he uses it to blow back the hail,gaara hits him with the tsunami,and gaara can just raise the tsunami upwards,like in the panel,kakauzu aint blowing that back,especially as he wont even know when it's coming,that was done by a wave of his hand.
Yes kakuzu has lots of experience,however,clone feints fool anyone,the mizukage was fooled,he did it in the blink of an eye to lee.the clone,looks just like him,uses sand moves as well,and gaara dosent make them obvious like naruto(i.e,naruto uses clones to fight,gaara hides them and uses them secretly),he wont know the difference,until he hits him,which like the mizukage would be fatal.
Also,gaara's sand shield isnt susanoo,it protects him from everywhere,kimi's bones came from under didnt it?,he reacted fast enough to make a platform for lee and himself. Also there is sand underneath him you know?,so it would protect him,and his sand sphere covers him from all sides.
Gaara flew against the kages in his opener,
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he was flying while they were on the ground,so i guess he changed his tactics.
Also abt the hiding the threads thing,threads arent stronger than his sand which restrained an incomplete susanoo,also you forget that his sand is even faster,now that it is lightened by onoki,also,even if kakuzu restrains him,gaara dosent need to move a muscle to move his sand,and his sand armour would block those threads from reaching his heart,he could easily use his gourd sand to wrap kakuzu in a sand pyramid,assuming those threads touch him.
He has abother trick called sand sensing,those threads arent going through the ground and sand there without gaara knowing,also the sand under his fet would protect him as well,you know that it is not just his gourd sand that protects him right?. Also his reactions allowed him to block 3 entons from close range,
thats enough to prove that he can react to the threads.
The longer the fight goes on,the more sand gaara makes,and the nore advantage he gets.catching on to gaara's fighting style wont really help. He attacks from everywhere,and can attack from anywhere,he has no pattern,deidara didnt know abt his gourd sand until their fight,so kakzuz wont until the fight,gaara fights by waving hands,not handseals,a wave of a hand can mean anything,his sand hail would destroy at least 2 masks due to the range,he could so this right under kakauzu
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or this
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if gaara indeed gets overwhelmed,then he takes flight in his sand sphere,where kakuzu's threads wont matter,gaara attacks and defends at the same tme,so whil kakuzu is attacking,he would also be under pressure as well.
Negative Knight
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My replies aren't that long, they're a good length xd
Gaara didn't survive or tank the meteor, he simply managed to hold it off with the help of Oonki in numerous ways e.g. lightening the meteor, holding it off with is strength and etc. Not to mention the meteor is not a drilling type attack like Raiton so i don't exactly see the relevance of stating it. Even if Gaara by some chance was to survive Raiton Gian he would be paralyzed/stunned, and severely at that.
As for your alternative methods for getting Kakuzu killed, they seem to be essentially flawed. Sealing is only a battle option when it comes to Edos, its not a part of Gaara's ordinary fighting style. He simply seeks to crush or bury the opponent, sealing won't play a part in this fight.
Earth isn't weak because it conducts electricity, its weak because its a solid element. Water conducts electricity and yet, under most circumstances it strengthens itself using the conduction of electricity to its advantage. The same scenario that happens to Earth would happen to Gaara's Sand, its simply susceptible to piercing raiton attacks.
Ah, you seem to cling to the feat of blocking A's kick too much. Like i said earlier, Raiton only beats sand when it utilizes its piercing nature, A's armour is a current of lighting, a continous stream of expelled chakra to coat himself. It has nothing to do with increasing the penetrative nature of his attacks.
I'll show you a pattern i've noticed. Raiton-enhanced melee attacks are more powerful, the more concentrated they are. If the user uses a single hand imbued with the entirety of their Raiton chakra its much more potent than someone coated from head to tail in Raiton. Much like, the Third Raikage's three-fingered hell stab is the most penetrative of the three.
Ranking of Raiton-enhanced attacks:
1) Three-fingered Hell Stab
2) One handed Raikiri/Chidori
3) Raiton Armour Kick
From that small dose of information alone, i hope you can see why blocking the Fourth Raikage's kick was not an impressive feat, this is without considering his kick wasn't penetrative or drilling in any way. Its a common misconception that all Raiton attacks increase penetrative nature, in the case of Raiton No Yoroi this is far from the case. It simply increases electrical movement across synapses, his kick was no different to that of his ordinary ones.
All of those feats are Gaara within a desert, without a desert he needs to create his source, and even then, the terrain would still be largely unaltered other than the ground. If the fight we're to happen in an open-field Kakuzu would have apt time to counter, if in a forest then he would be able to take cover, if at a water source then the result is self-explanatory. Essentially, if the terrain doesn't favour Gaara, then Kakuzu can counter his Sand Release.
While i'm at it, i may as well counter Sand Hail. Gaara first needs to coagulate his sand into clumps and use them from an aerial position, which involves dropping them from an altitude higher than that of the masks themselves. Considering the heights the masks can fly to, the speeds they've been shown to flight at and the limited nature of sand hail when used outside a desert, all add up to it being an insufficient method when not aerial and in a desert.
If Gaara where for some random reason to happen to be aerial in this fight and use Sand Hail, he would have to be on a platform of sand to perform the attack, which would inevitably result in taking the offensive.
If he were to do that, he would leave himself open to elemental bombardment from the masks, with the Raiton mask piercing his automatic defense with ease whilst he prepares the attack. Acknowledge that whilst Gaara can be on both an offensive and defensive, he can't do the extremities of both at any one moment. If shrouded in a sand dome, he'll be largely ineffective in putting pressure on Kakuzu, but without it, he's highly susceptible to being overwhelmed by the masks. Remember, the masks attack from every direction. Gaara's sand defense may very well be overwhelmed by the sheer number of offensives, the only efficient way of surviving would be to utilize his Sand dome. Going on the defensive would be Gaara's best bet in this fight.
Right now we seem to be doubting Kakuzu's own arsenal. He had a natural affinity for Earth Release and lived for almost one hundred years. I wouldn't put it past him to utilize clones and Hiding like a Mole technique or other basic techniques. For most characters you can't assume such things, but with Kakuzu, if the affinity is present, the learnt technique isn't forgotten. Anyway, ignore this part, its completely theoretical and simply me venting my thoughts.
However, it does have some basis in the sense Kakuzu sent his arm underground. If he was capable of such a thing without digging a hole (he did so in mere moments), i think i may be right in the sense he could travel underground (his arm moved around underground).
Alright, you seem to be confusing Kakuzu's fighting style that he displayed in the anime with the manga. His masks can use large scale techniques on their own, even without Kakuzu's intervention.
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Clone feints and such may work, but they would bring no bonus to Gaara by using them. Clones are only used to learn their opponent's fighting style or avoid definite attacks e.g. Deidara vs Sasuke.
Remember, his Sand Dome is an incomplete sphere, he's exposed from beneath him, if he wasn't his dome would be an aerial one, but liked i established Gaara fights on equal ground and not immediately taking to the air and spamming waves of sand.
The reason he started in the air was due to the danger of facing Four fearsome Kage on the ground, under normal circumstances there's no danger to fighting on the ground and so he would do so.
The threads would simply restrain his feet and pull him downwards, if that's done Gaara's sand can't hope to protect or offset the attack. Kakuzu seems to attack from underground with his threads, i honestly don't see what Gaara's automatic sand would do if his feet were caught and dragged through the ground. This is a highly likely tactic for Kakuzu considering the following things:
1) He was a part of Akatsuki and knew the abilities of the Jinchuuriki
2) He would easily decipher the nature of Gaara's automatic sand defense
3) He's exposed from beneath and so Kakuzu can capitalize on that. He's done a similar thing with Shikamaru's Kage Mane shuriken.
Sand sensing isn't a battle oriented attack. He uses it to locate foes and such e.g. Muu and anyone who needs to be detected. Unless Kakuzu somehow escapes Gaara's view, this won't play a part in this fight.
The entirety of my argument builds up a much larger picture. Kakuzu effectively can't be killed or crushed by Gaara, his Raiton can penetrate his defense, Fuuton or Katon/Fuuton combinations repel his waves of sand. He can attack from underneath and pull Gaara through the ground to overcome his defense. His analytical skills are on such a level he's able to deduce the nature of his opponent's fighting style with as little as one use and make an efficient counter in quick haste.
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Articuno
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Wow, I came to this threads with a few points in mind, but after reading Negative Knights's posts I honestly don't feel like I've got anything else to say here than the appropriate "^This"
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XZA
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Gaara did indeed survive the meteor. Look at the page once again. When the second meteor came down on the first meteor Gaara's shield of sand protected him from the impact of the second attack. He doesn't need to block it. Gian is a narrow lightning blast. Gaara has been shown a multitude of times to create a sand cloud under him and lift him into the air in a instant and dodge instantaneous techniques such as the flower tree world and the dance of the clematis flower. What is the difference with a technique like Gian?
And sealing will play a part in this fight. Kakauzu has 5 hearts, 4 of which are in different bodies. Those masks are not too much different from edo's. He can simply cover the masks in sand and seal them away. He has 4 masks, each one with different abilities. The fire and earth mask should be seal able. Why? Looking at what evidence from the manga, Gaara's sand > fire as it took amaterasu, the most powerful fire technique and did not turn to glass. Its not possible for fire to burn sand as sand has no oxygen to fuel it, so sand sucks the oxygen out of fire and causes it ti disperse completely. The earth only has 1 technique shown in the manga anime, that being earth spear. Gaara used sand lightning needles which was a spray of needles that release lightning. This would easily kill the earth mask even if sealing didnt work.
The fourth raikage used the lightning Armour to amputate his own arm. That would imply that it has piercing properties meaning Gaara's sand is able to defend against piercing property lightning techniques.
I re-watched the fight between Gaara and Kimimmaro. Looking at it, he took him a couple minutes to create enough sand to create that giant sand wave. Looking at what KAKUZU HAS BEEN SHOWN TO USE, he cant do anything that requires you to go underground other than threads. You mean to tell me that those puny threads can "stop" or "neutralize" that amount of sand? It doesnt matter where he is, he can crush the earth minerals from the surrounding sand and break it down to create a large amount of sand in minutes.
Exposed my ass. Gaara creates a third while inside the sphere which lets him see everything going on. If an attack comes from below Gaara's shield of sand would defend irregardless of he can see it or not. Gaara has been able to countless times bring up the hardest minerals from the ground and infuse them with his shield of sand to create a very impact resistant shields seen with Gaara's fight against kimminaro which over pressured kaguya bone and caused it to crack and protected an entire village from a gigantic explosion. Plus, Gaara can easily substitute himself with a sand double like he did in the manga against lee, in half a second, meaning Gaara has good reflexes, reaction time
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And sealing will play a part in this fight. Kakauzu has 5 hearts, 4 of which are in different bodies. Those masks are not too much different from edo's. He can simply cover the masks in sand and seal them away. He has 4 masks, each one with different abilities. The fire and earth mask should be seal able. Why? Looking at what evidence from the manga, Gaara's sand > fire as it took amaterasu, the most powerful fire technique and did not turn to glass. Its not possible for fire to burn sand as sand has no oxygen to fuel it, so sand sucks the oxygen out of fire and causes it ti disperse completely. The earth only has 1 technique shown in the manga anime, that being earth spear. Gaara used sand lightning needles which was a spray of needles that release lightning. This would easily kill the earth mask even if sealing didnt work.
The fourth raikage used the lightning Armour to amputate his own arm. That would imply that it has piercing properties meaning Gaara's sand is able to defend against piercing property lightning techniques.
I re-watched the fight between Gaara and Kimimmaro. Looking at it, he took him a couple minutes to create enough sand to create that giant sand wave. Looking at what KAKUZU HAS BEEN SHOWN TO USE, he cant do anything that requires you to go underground other than threads. You mean to tell me that those puny threads can "stop" or "neutralize" that amount of sand? It doesnt matter where he is, he can crush the earth minerals from the surrounding sand and break it down to create a large amount of sand in minutes.
Exposed my ass. Gaara creates a third while inside the sphere which lets him see everything going on. If an attack comes from below Gaara's shield of sand would defend irregardless of he can see it or not. Gaara has been able to countless times bring up the hardest minerals from the ground and infuse them with his shield of sand to create a very impact resistant shields seen with Gaara's fight against kimminaro which over pressured kaguya bone and caused it to crack and protected an entire village from a gigantic explosion. Plus, Gaara can easily substitute himself with a sand double like he did in the manga against lee, in half a second, meaning Gaara has good reflexes, reaction time
This isnt finished and I havent proof-read it yet or anything, Im just too tired to continue. Expect a edit in the morning, scum U_U
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dat name
UchihaInza
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Gaara but it wouldnt be easy