Gaara (Kage Summit) vs MS Sasuke (Danzo fight)

[Thesaurus]

War Arc Gaara wins,

-Amaterasu is countered like in canon [

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] or an eggshell of sound protects him from Amaterasu on all sides while he uses Third Eye. Sand clones can also be used as feints for Amaterasu.

-Genjutsu is rendered useless as long as Gaara surrounds himself with sand and uses sensor sand to detect Sasuke instead. Gaara's Third Eye might counter genjutsu as well since it's not direct eye to eye contact.

-Sasuke's hawk won't be any faster than Deidara's bird, in which case Gaara's gourd sand

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and crushes a wing so it can't fly.

-If Sasuke hides in Susanoo, Gaara can turn the location into a desert [

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] then use the sand at Sasuke's feet in order to

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then catch him in a sand coffin, large enough to where Sasuke can't break out with Chidori Nagashi, and crush him.

-Sasuke can't spam fireballs into the air since Gaara can block the atmosphere [

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] and if he uses Amaterasu on the surrounding desert to release heat into the sky Gaara can bury the fire deep belowground. So he isn't getting a chance to set up Kirin.

-That was Enton which needs to move rather than spawn like Ama.

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(NV physics). Thought I guess it makes sense since it works based on magnetism and very high temperatures can cause a substance to reach its curie point (sand irl doesn't have one, does in NV apparently). That means Enton arrows are the perfect offence against Gaara's egg, especially if preceded with a normal Amateratsu on the ball to make it begin weakening. Sand clones won't happen if Gaara is airborne, especially when Sasuke can still see him behind his sand with the Sharingan.

-Third eye is linked to Gaara's optical nerve, if it is hit by something Gaara loses sight in that eye regardless of the other eyes health. And third eye wouldn't be a counter since it's linked to Gaara's optic nerve.

-No, but the Hawk is effective if Gaara ever tries Sand Tsunami. In any other situation he dosn't need it.

-Sasuke has control over the fire dragons which he requires to create Kirin. Meaning he can get around any small amount of sand. Unless you are saying Gaara is going to waste a tremendous amount of chakra on creating an abnormally large sand shield which would ultimately be a waste of chakra. He's better off ignoring it then trying to fight it with huge amounts of chakra.

 

[Beans2]

-That was Enton which needs to move rather than spawn like Ama.

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(NV physics). Thought I guess it makes sense since it works based on magnetism and very high temperatures can cause a substance to reach its curie point (sand irl doesn't have one, does in NV apparently). That means Enton arrows are the perfect offence against Gaara's egg, especially if preceded with a normal Amateratsu on the ball to make it begin weakening. Sand clones won't happen if Gaara is airborne, especially when Sasuke can still see him behind his sand with the Sharingan.

You are thinking too much into this. Amaterasu didn't make his sand melt. That's just the free flowing form of Gaara's sand. When sand is exposed to extreme heat, it turns into glass but Gaara's sand didn't do that.

-Sand melts at 1700* C, [

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]

-Limestone melts at about half that temperature [

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]

-Kabuto's cave is made out of limestone. I can't find the Viz scan for

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but Viz TV has Kabuto calling his cave limsteone:

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-Amaterasu didn't melt limestone, ever. [

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][

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]

Not to mention C3's explosion which should be significantly hotter than Amaterasu didn't melt sand [

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]. Amaterasu won't melt sand ever, and it will be very slow at burning through his defense giving Gaara ample time to shed off the layer of sand with Amaterasu on it.

Like you said in your debate thread, Amaterasu has to travel like Enton after 5 meters so as long as Gaara stays at a five meter range (standard for a long range fighter) he can casually block it. And if somehow does make it past his ultimate defense, he just uses sand armour as a precaution then sheds off the ignited sand.

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-Third eye is linked to Gaara's optical nerve, if it is hit by something Gaara loses sight in that eye regardless of the other eyes health. And third eye wouldn't be a counter since it's linked to Gaara's optic nerve.

Then Gaara navigates uses sensor sand.

-No, but the Hawk is effective if Gaara ever tries Sand Tsunami. In any other situation he dosn't need it.

The bird will save Sasuke from a sand tsunami one time. Then it gets killed if it stays on the battlefield for more than a couple minutes.

-Sasuke has control over the fire dragons which he requires to create Kirin. Meaning he can get around any small amount of sand. Unless you are saying Gaara is going to waste a tremendous amount of chakra on creating an abnormally large sand shield which would ultimately be a waste of chakra. He's better off ignoring it then trying to fight it with huge amounts of chakra.

-Proof that Sasuke can control their direction? Madara couldn't control the direction of his fire dragons otherwise he would have made them

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.
-A strategy Gaara can use is make a giant airborne sand shield then dump it on top of Sasuke. While Sasuke puts up Susanoo to defend himself, Gaara whisks him out of Susanoo using the sand at his feet and crushes him in a sand coffin.

 

[Thesaurus]

You are thinking too much into this. Amaterasu didn't make his sand melt. That's just the free flowing form of Gaara's sand. When sand is exposed to extreme heat, it turns into glass but Gaara's sand didn't do that.

-Sand melts at 1700* C, [

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]

-Limestone melts at about half that temperature [

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]

-Kabuto's cave is made out of limestone. I can't find the Viz scan for

You must be registered for see links

but Viz TV has Kabuto calling his cave limsteone:

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-Amaterasu didn't melt limestone, ever. [

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][

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][

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]

All of this is irrelevant. Sand doesn't free flow like a liquid, yet it did here [x] on several different points [

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]. Sand grains would just be falling individually as they aren't cohesive, but that's clearly not the case. Furthermore, you try to use real life physics on sand which is not how it works at all. This is a manga, and in this manga sand is magnetics when it isn't in real life. So all your points go out the window.

Not to mention C3's explosion which should be significantly hotter than Amaterasu didn't melt sand [

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]. Amaterasu won't melt sand ever, and it will be very slow at burning through his defense giving Gaara ample time to shed off the layer of sand with Amaterasu on it.

Wow. Huge amounts of sand means the sand passes on the energy from one grain to the next. Small amount of sand=easier to melt.
Not to mention Enton is continuous whereas C3 is for a mere instant.

Like you said in your debate thread, Amaterasu has to travel like Enton after 5 meters so as long as Gaara stays at a five meter range (standard for a long range fighter) he can casually block it. And if somehow does make it past his ultimate defense, he just uses sand armour as a precaution then sheds off the ignited sand.

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Yes, how does that matter tho? If Gaara is in his sand dome the dome would just get hit because his auto defence won't work. Not to mention Enton follows whatever the user is looking at, he could make it curve around the small amount of sand that's trying to block it (if you can prove he can actually react that fast). And I never suggested Ama could end this, I claimed Ama could weaken the sand for Enton arrow to end this.

Then Gaara navigates uses sensor sand.

Gaara's sensor sand is useless in such a situation though. He can attack Sasuke within a range, but he can't anticipate where Sasuke goes until he actually starts going. So the sand would never actually reach Sasuke since it'd always be a step too slow. Not to mention if Sasuke uses ninjutsu/enton arrow/amatertasu he won't see it coming as it doesn't detect chakra build up.

The bird will save Sasuke from a sand tsunami one time. Then it gets killed if it stays on the battlefield for more than a couple minutes.

If Gaara attempts Sand Tsunami he dies. Sasuke goes over it via hawk and then uses Amateratsu followed by Enton arrow.

-Proof that Sasuke can control their direction? Madara couldn't control the direction of his fire dragons otherwise he would have made them

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.
-A strategy Gaara can use is make a giant airborne sand shield then dump it on top of Sasuke. While Sasuke puts up Susanoo to defend himself, Gaara whisks him out of Susanoo using the sand at his feet and crushes him in a sand coffin.

When Madara used a stronger version of the technique he had the ability to manipulate the dragons [

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]. Other than quantity and shape manipulation there's literally no difference between the two, so Sasuke should have the came capability. After all, it's connected to Sasuke's mouth for quite some time post-release [

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], just like Madara who was able to make his dragons go outwards and then curve inwards towards Tsunade.

"dump it on Sasuke" Can Sasuke not shunshin away, or are you underrating his shunshin speed when he dodged much faster massive explosions as Hebi. And lol, you're taking this "takes him out of Susano feat way too far. It's not that simple, and to our knowledge, it's only possible after Onoki makes the sand lighter (otherwise there would've been no point in doing so).

 

[NarutoX28]

Well, Jouki Boy outpaced Gaara's Sand. It's hard to say that Gaara wins here ....

 

[Beans2]

All of this is irrelevant. Sand doesn't free flow like a liquid, yet it did here [x] on several different points [

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]. Sand grains would just be falling individually as they aren't cohesive, but that's clearly not the case. Furthermore, you try to use real life physics on sand which is not how it works at all. This is a manga, and in this manga sand is magnetics when it isn't in real life. So all your points go out the window.

How convenient it is for you to just dismiss my point with "this is a manga, not real life". :lol. Bottom line is, if the sand had actually melted then rock would have also. Except Amaterasu failed to melt rock. Multiple times. [

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][

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]. So the sand didn't melt. Your only evidence for it actually melting is that the sand's form was in a shape that resembled something dripping, but that point is null considering Gaara's sand can be manipulated to take whatever form he wants it to and literally in the same panel the Amaterasu didn't affect other parts of sand the same way.

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Gaara's sand resembles liquid free flowing all the time. If you still want to claim it melted the sand, you'd have to claim Gaara's sand was melted in all these instances: [

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I'm done if you still think Amaterasu melted sand.

Wow. Huge amounts of sand means the sand passes on the energy from one grain to the next. Small amount of sand=easier to melt.
Not to mention Enton is continuous whereas C3 is for a mere instant.

I don't know what your point is here but an atomic bomb explosion literally turned a desert into glass after it melted.

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Yes, how does that matter tho? If Gaara is in his sand dome the dome would just get hit because his auto defence won't work. Not to mention Enton follows whatever the user is looking at, he could make it curve around the small amount of sand that's trying to block it (if you can prove he can actually react that fast). And I never suggested Ama could end this, I claimed Ama could weaken the sand for Enton arrow to end this.

If Gaara blocks Sasuke's line of sight Amaterasu can't hit him. Enton can't curve around a visible barrier if the user can't see behind it. Bold: He reacted to it in canon. Sasuke uses Amaterasu on the sand, Gaara sheds off the layer of sand that's affected. Sasuke shoots an enton arrow, Gaara intercepts with sand before it even reaches his sand dome or if it hits, he gets rid of the flames the same way. Amaterasu isn't melting Gaara's sand and it can be shed off long before it burns through.

Gaara's sensor sand is useless in such a situation though. He can attack Sasuke within a range, but he can't anticipate where Sasuke goes until he actually starts going. So the sand would never actually reach Sasuke since it'd always be a step too slow. Not to mention if Sasuke uses ninjutsu/enton arrow/amatertasu he won't see it coming as it doesn't detect chakra build up.

Sand tsunamis and sand walls say hello. Gaara can detect Sasuke's general area with sensor sand then box him in with massive aoe sand attacks, not to mention Gaara obviously doesn't have to do battle without eyesight the entire duration of the battle. Genjutsu is only an effective attack at a certain range and Gaara will just not see his eyes if he's far away, not to mention Sasuke will have to be using Sharingan to constantly avoid Gaara's sand assaults so he won't be able to force eye contact with Gaara. So genjutsu sniping is highly unlikely here.

If Gaara attempts Sand Tsunami he dies. Sasuke goes over it via hawk and then uses Amateratsu followed by Enton arrow.

Wow...Gaara's sand follows the bird and catches it then kills it. Already addressed the part about Amaterasu.

When Madara used a stronger version of the technique he had the ability to manipulate the dragons [

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]. Other than quantity and shape manipulation there's literally no difference between the two, so Sasuke should have the came capability. After all, it's connected to Sasuke's mouth for quite some time post-release [

You must be registered for see links

], just like Madara who was able to make his dragons go outwards and then curve inwards towards Tsunade.

No he didn't? If Madara actually was able to control their direction he would have made them go around Tsunade. Since his target was the Gokages and he knew Tsunade would just tank with Byakogou.

"dump it on Sasuke" Can Sasuke not shunshin away, or are you underrating his shunshin speed when he dodged much faster massive explosions as Hebi.

It's AOE is too big for Sasuke to monkey hop out of range. The only explosion I can assume you are referring to is C4, and Sasuke didn't shunshin out of range before the nano bombs reached him. All he did was hold his breath until he was out of the nano bombs range, not to mention it takes the C4 bombs much longer to spread out than it does for Gaara to dump his sand shield on top of Sasuke. Sasuke has no other option than to just tank with Susanoo. And if he tries to run then Gaara just blocks him with a sand tsunami.

And lol, you're taking this "takes him out of Susano feat way too far. It's not that simple, and to our knowledge, it's only possible after Onoki makes the sand lighter (otherwise there would've been no point in doing so).

It is that simple. It's as simple as turning the location into a desert so he can use the sand at Sasuke's feet. Onoki lightened Gaara's gourd sand. Not the desert sand at Madara's feet which Gaara used to pull take him out of Susanoo so that point is irrelevant.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Gaara wins. Susano'o is useless when Gaara can bypass it from underneath at any given moment.

 

[Thesaurus]

How convenient it is for you to just dismiss my point with "this is a manga, not real life". :lol. Bottom line is, if the sand had actually melted then rock would have also. Except Amaterasu failed to melt rock. Multiple times. [

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][

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]. So the sand didn't melt. Your only evidence for it actually melting is that the sand's form was in a shape that resembled something dripping, but that point is null considering Gaara's sand can be manipulated to take whatever form he wants it to and literally in the same panel the Amaterasu didn't affect other parts of sand the same way.

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Gaara's sand resembles liquid free flowing all the time. If you still want to claim it melted the sand, you'd have to claim Gaara's sand was melted in all these instances: [

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][

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][

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][

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][

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]

I'm done if you still think Amaterasu melted sand.



I don't know what your point is here but an atomic bomb explosion literally turned a desert into glass after it melted.

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If Gaara blocks Sasuke's line of sight Amaterasu can't hit him. Enton can't curve around a visible barrier if the user can't see behind it. Bold: He reacted to it in canon. Sasuke uses Amaterasu on the sand, Gaara sheds off the layer of sand that's affected. Sasuke shoots an enton arrow, Gaara intercepts with sand before it even reaches his sand dome or if it hits, he gets rid of the flames the same way. Amaterasu isn't melting Gaara's sand and it can be shed off long before it burns through.



Sand tsunamis and sand walls say hello. Gaara can detect Sasuke's general area with sensor sand then box him in with massive aoe sand attacks, not to mention Gaara obviously doesn't have to do battle without eyesight the entire duration of the battle. Genjutsu is only an effective attack at a certain range and Gaara will just not see his eyes if he's far away, not to mention Sasuke will have to be using Sharingan to constantly avoid Gaara's sand assaults so he won't be able to force eye contact with Gaara. So genjutsu sniping is highly unlikely here.



Wow...Gaara's sand follows the bird and catches it then kills it. Already addressed the part about Amaterasu.



No he didn't? If Madara actually was able to control their direction he would have made them go around Tsunade. Since his target was the Gokages and he knew Tsunade would just tank with Byakogou.



It's AOE is too big for Sasuke to monkey hop out of range. The only explosion I can assume you are referring to is C4, and Sasuke didn't shunshin out of range before the nano bombs reached him. All he did was hold his breath until he was out of the nano bombs range, not to mention it takes the C4 bombs much longer to spread out than it does for Gaara to dump his sand shield on top of Sasuke. Sasuke has no other option than to just tank with Susanoo. And if he tries to run then Gaara just blocks him with a sand tsunami.



It is that simple. It's as simple as turning the location into a desert so he can use the sand at Sasuke's feet. Onoki lightened Gaara's gourd sand. Not the desert sand at Madara's feet which Gaara used to pull take him out of Susanoo so that point is irrelevant.

Fair enough, it doesn't melt sand. I won't bother debating this extensively now since I'll be debating this same match-up with Akasuna in like a week or two. So take it as a concession fam

 

[Unorthodox]

Gaara wins. Susano'o is useless when Gaara can bypass it from underneath at any given moment.

Before or after the susanoo arrow 1 shots

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Before or after the susanoo arrow 1 shots

:/ You know better then to be quoting me, lmao. Go debate Mickey Mouse.

 

[Icelerate]

:/ You know better then to be quoting me, lmao. Go debate Mickey Mouse.

Concession accepted, Unorthodox wins. Susanoo arrow one shots.

 

[NarutoX28]

Gaara wins. Susano'o is useless when Gaara can bypass it from underneath at any given moment.

Except Gaara needed Lightened Sand in order to do so against Madara's Susano'o who was occupied against Naruto, Onoki, and a Shinobi Division.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Concession accepted, Unorthodox wins. Susanoo arrow one shots.

Surprise surprise. Icelerate crawls out of a crack in the wall and attempts to bait me. Totally didn't see that one coming.

Except Gaara needed Lightened Sand in order to do so against Madara's Susano'o who was occupied against Naruto, Onoki, and a Shinobi Division.

Didn't know MS Sasuke's susano'o was equivalent to Madaras. Didn't know I said Gaara would need to pull Sasuke out of his susano'o either.

 

[NarutoX28]

Didn't know MS Sasuke's susano'o was equivalent to Madaras. Didn't know I said Gaara would need to pull Sasuke out of his susano'o either.

It doesn't matter if Sasuke's Susano'o is weaker when Gaara needed his Sand lightened despite him being in far better circumstances than Madara was. Even then, Sasuke's reflexes are high enough to detect Gaara's sand considering he could follow V2 Ei's flicker (until he escaped his Field of Vision) whereas Gaara's Sand struggled to outpace Jouki Boy.

 

[Thesaurus]

Surprise surprise. Icelerate crawls out of a crack in the wall and attempts to bait me. Totally didn't see that one coming.



Didn't know MS Sasuke's susano'o was equivalent to Madaras. Didn't know I said Gaara would need to pull Sasuke out of his susano'o either.

The strength of the Susano is irrelevant.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

It doesn't matter if Sasuke's Susano'o is weaker when Gaara needed his Sand lightened despite him being in far better circumstances than Madara was. Even then, Sasuke's reflexes are high enough to detect Gaara's sand considering he could follow V2 Ei's flicker (until he escaped his Field of Vision) whereas Gaara's Sand struggled to outpace Jouki Boy.

Gaara's sand being lightened only enabled him to either successfully pull Madara out of susano'o and/or allowed his sand manipulation speed to be fast enough to catch Madara off guard. There is no reason why he'd need it to be lightened to accomplish a feat he has already done [

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]. He isn't avoiding Gaaras AoE sand attacks.

The strength of the Susano is irrelevant.

And why is that?

 

[Thesaurus]

Gaara's sand being lightened only enabled him to either successfully pull Madara out of susano'o and/or allowed his sand manipulation speed to be fast enough to catch Madara off guard. There is no reason why he'd need it to be lightened to accomplish a feat he has already done [

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]. He isn't avoiding Gaaras AoE sand attacks.




And why is that?

I am not the one who needs to prove why a stronger chakra would equate to a Susano more difficult to remove from its user

 

[NarutoX28]

Gaara's sand being lightened only enabled him to either successfully pull Madara out of susano'o and/or allowed his sand manipulation speed to be fast enough to catch Madara off guard. There is no reason why he'd need it to be lightened to accomplish a feat he has already done [

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]. He isn't avoiding Gaaras AoE sand attacks.

So Sick Kimimaro has comparable reflexes to 3T Sasuke who managed to react and parry Killer Bee for multiple panels while being noticeably weakened as stated by Jugo? Yeah, no. Susano'o is far quicker than Sasuke's actual strike speed, so the likelihood of actually being caught by Gaara's Sand is little to none. He'd need his sand to be lightened in order to accomplish that feat.

Gaara's AoE was only a factor when he had the Shukaku. Without it, he got heavily nerfed as Jouki Boy managed to outpace his Sand.

 

[Unorthodox]

:/ You know better then to be quoting me, lmao. Go debate Mickey Mouse.

My debate is over i just squashed your bf kidgamer you know everytime i reply to you, you try to brush it off instead of making an accurate counter i must put fear in your eyes.

ghost in shell you lame with you sneak dissin ass disliking everything about phucking fan

 

[Thesaurus]

My debate is over i just squashed your bf kidgamer you know everytime i reply to you, you try to brush it off instead of making an accurate counter i must put fear in your eyes.

ghost in shell you lame with you sneak dissin ass disliking everything about phucking fan

You must be registered for see images

 

[Forbidden Technique]

My debate is over i just squashed your bf kidgamer you know everytime i reply to you, you try to brush it off instead of making an accurate counter i must put fear in your eyes.

ghost in shell you lame with you sneak dissin ass disliking everything about phucking fan

Entertain a clown, you become part of the circus niga. When you make an actual compotent comment that's actually accurate with the manga, I'll take you seriously. Until then, go debate Big Bird dawg lmao.