[Discussion] FTG vs Madara space-time ninjutsu.

[JMAN]

The Flying Thunder God technique does indeed seem to be somewhat faster than Madara's space-time ninjutsu. But it also has its limitations; and if we're talking about Minato and Madara, then many seem to forget that the Flying Thunder God technique is worthless in front of Izanagi. No matter how fast a ninja Minato is, if he has no clue as to what the forbidden illusion is (and it is very likely he does not), then he knows no counter to it, and will have a major problem on his hands. But Izanagi aside, just because Minato's Flying Thunder God technique seems to be faster than Madara's space-time ninjutsu, doesn't necessarily mean it is better.

You see, it was not so much Minato's victory in chapters 502 and 503, but rather Madara's error. He did not know there was a second level to the Flying Thunder God technique, and it was that one mistake that Minato took great advantage of, allowing him to delay Madara and his plans for a certain time. But even still, both techniques are extraordinary creations, and I enjoyed seeing them used in action.

:flaw:


Well when you say that Minato didn't really win but it was madara's mistake that he lost against the Fourth .
Well then you can also say that Kisame lost because it was his mistake and not Gay's strength and about his technique .
You can also say that Konan lost because it was her fault that he she didn't know about Izanagi .

 

[moudhgalya]

And Naruto with practice because of his nearly unlimited chakra he shopuld be able to go for a long time using it

Dude FTG is like reverse summoning...It doesn't take chakra.....

Personally I would prefer FTG in combat too...Madara's may be advanced but as many of U said it has its disadvantages which a smart ninja can easily exploit......

 

[moudhgalya]

To me Minato is a example of the ninja in manga, he got skill, attitude, style, everything, and he is good enought to offer a good fight against Madara, but Madara is also dangerous for what i saw till know.. they're both good, but if i could choose, i would prefer the 5 minuts thing.. but to me, i prefer Minato!

Yo man I completely agree with U here...Minato is the most awesomest ninja...He has everything..Looks,Genius, uberly powerful,extremely caring ..U can go on and on.........

 

[moudhgalya]

Izanagi is an illusion cast on oneself; meaning if Minato were to strike Madara with his Flying Thunder God technique, all he would be hitting is his own dream. I'm not saying Minato didn't win, all I'm saying is if Madara used Izanagi, defeating the Fourth would have been much easier.

With Izanagi he can avoid being hit......thats all....Then he has to attack Minato right ...Minato at that point of time has no feats of any offensive jutsus.....Therefore no way he could have defeated Minato......

 

[silenceofthelambs]

:flaw:


Well when you say that Minato didn't really win but it was madara's mistake that he lost against the Fourth .
Well then you can also say that Kisame lost because it was his mistake and not Gay's strength and about his technique .
You can also say that Konan lost because it was her fault that he she didn't know about Izanagi .

Yes, that's how it goes. If Kisame would have known about Gai's Afternoon Tiger, he would have won, and if Konan knew about Madara's Izanagi, she would have won as well. But unfortunately, they didn't, so that's how those two battles turned out.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

With Izanagi he can avoid being hit......thats all....Then he has to attack Minato right ...Minato at that point of time has no feats of any offensive jutsus.....Therefore no way he could have defeated Minato......

Why not just appear directly behind him and warp him the moment Madara lays his hand on him, as he claimed he was able to do in chapter 502?

 

[DOD_bld]

I would like to jump in on this conversation... During the Kakashi Gieden story, Minato used the FTG by touching the leg of the enemy, placing a seal on him. Which one could assume, that when Minato touches Madara, he could place a seal whilst he is attacking with the other hand, maybe even the same. Yes it is as someone stated a reverse summoning, which as we know uses very little to no chakra to use. Minato has also been shown deflecting an attack with his S/T jutsus meaning he might be able to deflect Madara's attacks avoiding real damage. Now on to the Izanagi ...

Use this hypothetical example just for a minuet please.

Madara and Minato are fighting, Minato hits Madara with rasengan "killing" him. Madara then stands up and is right behind Minato (as in the Konan fight) very much to Minato's surprise. Minato being a quick thinker uses FTG away to somewhere away from possible instant attacks, but in the process touches Madara's chest as if to push him away, placing a seal... Minato and Madara continue to fight as before, knowing that physical attacks will pass through him, Minato attacks. Madara, not being dumb, sees what Minato is attempting, (the same type of attack again) and warps to another location to avoid a secondary attack. POOF! Minato appears in front of Madara and stabs him in the eyes (plural) taking out the possibility of him using them at all... and proceeds to kill him via random violent attacks...

FIN

thank you ... thank you ... you may now throw all of your Kumi my direction... and Reps!

 

[niblack89]

The fight with Tobi proved that FTG is more versatile in battle then Tobi's space-time. Minato could have finished off Tobi but he had more important matters to deal with. Tobi saw that he had a FTG seal on him meaning Minato could instantly go to Tobi's location.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

The fight with Tobi proved that FTG is more versatile in battle then Tobi's space-time. Minato could have finished off Tobi but he had more important matters to deal with. Tobi saw that he had a FTG seal on him meaning Minato could instantly go to Tobi's location.

So why didn't he kill him? In chapter 502, Minato voiced his intention to do so. Explain why Madara didn't die by Minato's hand.

 

[niblack89]

So why didn't he kill him? In chapter 502, Minato voiced his intention to do so. Explain why Madara didn't die by Minato's hand.

As hokage your duty is to protect the village. Minato just needed to remove the kyuubi from his grasp. A full scale battle would weaken Minato. Tobi would have a hard time predicting were Minato will be next. Taking down the kyuubi would be hard. He weakend Tobi and removed the kyuubi his mission was a success. Facing Tobi and the kyuubi would be impossible even for Minato. Hints him giving Naruto the kyuubi.

Any way the FTG as saw could even escape Tob's space-time. In the long run Tobi's space-time is better at traveling it would seem. Tobi could find anyone and go places he wishes but the FTG is faster it would seem. Also without it would be impossible for someone to escape his space-time but Minato's can end you without you knowing your dead.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

As hokage your duty is to protect the village. Minato just needed to remove the kyuubi from his grasp. A full scale battle would weaken Minato. Tobi would have a hard time predicting were Minato will be next. Taking down the kyuubi would be hard. He weakend Tobi and removed the kyuubi his mission was a success. Facing Tobi and the kyuubi would be impossible even for Minato. Hints him giving Naruto the kyuubi.

Any way the FTG as saw could even escape Tob's space-time. In the long run Tobi's space-time is better at traveling it would seem. Tobi could find anyone and go places he wishes but the FTG is faster it would seem. Also without it would be impossible for someone to escape his space-time but Minato's can end you without you knowing your dead.

Wasn't it Minato's duty as Hokage to kill Madara? His failure that night allowed a very large threat to continue roaming around.

 

[niblack89]

Wasn't it Minato's duty as Hokage to kill Madara? His failure that night allowed a very large threat to continue roaming around.

The kyuubi was running around destroying the village. Stopping the kyuubi was his main priority. Tobi escaped so he left him alone. Minato knew Tobi was a threat so he gave Naruto the kyuubi and saved him for Naruto.

Even Minato couldn't face Tobi and the kyuubi in the same day. Hashirama had a KKGK that allowed him to make biju's his pet Minato doesn't. He wounded Tobi and removed the kyuubi from his possession then sealed it away from him so it could be used against him. To be tecnical if Hashirama did his job Madara would be dead.

 

[silenceofthelambs]

The kyuubi was running around destroying the village. Stopping the kyuubi was his main priority. Tobi escaped so he left him alone. Minato knew Tobi was a threat so he gave Naruto the kyuubi and saved him for Naruto.

Even Minato couldn't face Tobi and the kyuubi in the same day. Hashirama had a KKGK that allowed him to make biju's his pet Minato doesn't. He wounded Tobi and removed the kyuubi from his possession then sealed it away from him so it could be used against him. To be tecnical if Hashirama did his job Madara would be dead.

Minato himself said Madara was a greater threat than the Nine-Tails. Could the village not have held back the fox for a few more minutes while he at least tried to kill Madara? Hashirama didn't do his job, and Minato didn't either. Two attempts to kill one very dangerous person, both failures. And look at what's happened as a result. What, really, was the "main priority" that night?

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

Personally, I'd rather have Madara's ability if I were a ninja...

It doesn't need a seal in order to go somewhere. As far as I know, Madara can teleport pretty much anywhere that he knows. He even teleported in front of Sasuke once in an area I am sure he wasn't familiar with.
He can make himself invulnerable. He can go through shit.

Minato just made FTG look cool. It's still a boss ass jutsu.

AND, I don't think it took much chakra at all. The time he was exhausted from using it was from teleporting the Kyuubi. You know, the thing inside Naruto which causes the plot of the story?

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

The Flying Thunder God technique does indeed seem to be somewhat faster than Madara's space-time ninjutsu. But it also has its limitations; and if we're talking about Minato and Madara, then many seem to forget that the Flying Thunder God technique is worthless in front of Izanagi. No matter how fast a ninja Minato is, if he has no clue as to what the forbidden illusion is (and it is very likely he does not), then he knows no counter to it, and will have a major problem on his hands. But Izanagi aside, just because Minato's Flying Thunder God technique seems to be faster than Madara's space-time ninjutsu, doesn't necessarily mean it is better.

You see, it was not so much Minato's victory in chapters 502 and 503, but rather Madara's error. He did not know there was a second level to the Flying Thunder God technique, and it was that one mistake that Minato took great advantage of, allowing him to delay Madara and his plans for a certain time. But even still, both techniques are extraordinary creations, and I enjoyed seeing them used in action.

I'm sorry to say this, but you tend to defend Madara a bit more than I'd like :-(.

To disagree with you, it wasn't an "error" Madara made. It was a secret that Minato kept. The point of your jutsu is to keep them secret. An enemy doesn't sit there and do the Water Dragon Missile Technique and tell the enemy before it's executed "Oh, I'm about to weave 40-some-odd signs at you, then the water in that river over there is going to take the form of a dragon and charge right at you. A Doton technique to hide yourself in the earth would be effective as my technique whizzes over you".

The point of your jutsu is to keep them secret. Saying that Madara "didn't know" there was a level two to the FTG is like saying it's Minato's fault he didn't yell out "HEY I'M ABOUT TO DO FTG!!!!!".

Minato did an extremely good job doing so, especially fighting someone as intuitive and knowledgeable as Madara.

 

[Almighty PAIN]

Flying thunder God (hiraishin no jutsu) this technique granted minato the nickname "konoha's yellow flash"

 

[Redcloud]

If Madara has a "Space-Time" ninjutsu, is it possible for him to travel backwards / forwards through time itself?

 

[moudhgalya]

Why not just appear directly behind him and warp him the moment Madara lays his hand on him, as he claimed he was able to do in chapter 502?

There is a lot of difference between claiming and actually doing it...There are instances of it in the manga.........

 

[moudhgalya]

Minato himself said Madara was a greater threat than the Nine-Tails. Could the village not have held back the fox for a few more minutes while he at least tried to kill Madara? Hashirama didn't do his job, and Minato didn't either. Two attempts to kill one very dangerous person, both failures. And look at what's happened as a result. What, really, was the "main priority" that night?

well the thing is he didn't want Konoha to be destroyed by Kyuubi....Otherwise he would have surely killed Madara as he already tagged him....Also Kushina was dying.....(A bit of plot too)...

Anyway its finally Naruto thats going to kill Madara...So we can say Minato was successful.........

 

[Spartan117]

So why didn't he kill him? In chapter 502, Minato voiced his intention to do so. Explain why Madara didn't die by Minato's hand.

Use your common sense bro... He ran away.. thats why Minato didn't win. Also would you go and save the entire-almost-dieing-village or stay and waste time trying to kill someone like madara? Madara ran away as far as I recall.