#FreedomOfSpeechMustBeAbsolute

[Ken Kaneki]

I love it how you all the way at the end suddenly jump to the mods.

Essentially you are saying that everyone is allowed to scream out any thought that pops up in their heads immediately regardless of whether it's highly offensive, racist, sexist etc. You are saying that everyone is allowed to spread the most filthiest lies about other people, causing their reputations irreversible damage or even worse just because they are allowed to say whatever they want.

Go to Jeruzalem and scream "Heil Hitler" and "death to the Jews" and see how that works out.

Freedom of speech was never meant to mean that you can just blurt out anything you want. Everyone who thinks that, needs a serious reality check as they have no clue what the hell they're saying. Absolute freedom of speech would mean the acceptance of racism, sexism, discrimination etc. while our current society is trying to remove this completely. So a society that wants to remove these things, but uses "absolute freedom of speech", is inherently contradictory to itself. That's a hypocrite society.

The notion of absolute freedom of speech is inherently contradicting itself, it collapses on each other as how can a society function when people are allowed to say that white people are superior, that black people are superior and to say that you are allowed to say one of them but the other not? How is as judicial system supposed to function properly if everyone is allowed to say and even do whatever they want as why would "freedom of speech" be limited to words? There are people who let their 'fists do the talking'. If you do not count that as 'freedom of speech', it means you just put a limiter on your supposed absolute freedom, making it not an absolute freedom at all.

The real essence of "freedom of speech" has always been that it has to happen within certain boundaries. It's very tricky to define these boundaries, but that there have to be boundaries, that much has always been certain. What you describe is borderline anarchy. Let the world burn as long as I can insult the crackers and their family that I hate just because they had the gall to do what they were supposed to do.

Again like Mike, you have little faith in humanity. The world would have already burned if all the people were inherently evil. These rules on freedom of speech are not stopping the world from burning down. People are. Why ? Because their are good people who exercise their rights as well. Don't say we are frail and must be bound to some extent . We aren't.

 

[Avani]

Again like Mike, you have little faith in humanity. The world would have already burned if all the people were inherently evil. These rules on freedom of speech are not stopping the world from burning down. People are. Why ? Because their are good people who exercise their rights as well. Don't say we are frail and must be bound to some extent . We aren't.

Without rules even the earth wouldn't stay in it's orbit. The universe exists and runs by rules. We are frail. Just wait till nature strikes next time.

 

[Silico]

Rules are meant to broken.. Tries to break Newton's law of universal gravitation. Shit my freedom..

 

[Ken Kaneki]

What a guy! Says, "People should decide what's correct for themselves. Not majority not the dictators" and then complains that the owner and admins decided what was correct for themselves accordingly. Are they not included in your definition of "people"? Do they lose this title as penalty for making a site and having their own goals with it and must give in to guests and watch them destroy it?

The moderators decided for the people who may have found any content the mods find unacceptable as acceptable. Instead of arguing it (the speech way) they deleted it and issued bans/infractions. You are confusing infractions/bans/deletion ----> as actions with speech. And of course the moderators should reply to posts in the manner they deem fit via speech.

Without rules even the earth wouldn't stay in it's orbit. The universe exists and runs by rules. We are frail. Just wait till nature strikes next time.

So the rules of universe = people made rules ? No

Rules are meant to broken.. Tries to break Newton's law of universal gravitation. Shit my freedom..

Again human made rules = rules of the universe ?

 

[Silico]

Again human made rules = rules of the universe ?

Rules of order, without order we shall fall.

 

[Reraru]

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can insult anyone's religion without knowing it or understanding it!

 

[Avani]

The moderators decided for the people who may have found any content the mods find unacceptable as acceptable. Instead of arguing it (the speech way) they deleted it and issued bans/infractions. You are confusing infractions/bans/deletion ----> as actions with speech. And of course the moderators should reply to posts in the manner they deem fit via speech.

You are not making any sense. Moderator by definition is someone who 'moderates' i.e. keep things 'moderated'- moderate as in keeping things less extreme/violent. Arguing is not our job to begin with.

So the rules of universe = people made rules ? No

Nope. But you like to talk big. Why limit yourself?

 

[kuchiyosenojutsuironmaidn]

Freedom of speech is absolute in the U.S. ask Kanye West. The problem is that you are confusing recourse with moderation. Mods are needed because of free speech. Being banned from a festival is a direct result of the use of free speech. No matter who actually wanted to talk to the guy, the people in charge were offended and have the "right" to exclude anyone they choose from their gatherings. Your right to free speech does not trump everyone else's rights simply because you exercised yours first. Would it be okay for someone to accuse you of premeditated murder? And how about a false witness to back them up? How about if police officers get in on it, too? You're saying that when it's proven that they are all lying, everybody gets to go home because they were all just exercising their right to free speech? Recourse is iminent; even as a result of silence. Just sayin'.

 

[Flakez]

You wouldn't have known racism or misogynism if people's voices were quashed. Majority does not always mean correct..Dictatorship doesn't mean that the decisions made by the few are correct. Voices, all types, should be heard. Then people should decide what is correct for themselves. Not majority not the dictators. Sure you may not agree or detest certain opinions, but those are still opinions and people can reject /accept it according to themselves. Nobody needs to decide for somebody else.

I'll speak strictly about NB, because it's obvious why you made this thread. As Ira said the admins created this site, and they decided for themselves that racism, sexism, misogyny.. whatever you name it is not accptable and they don't want to see that on their site. They want people to enjoy themselves when they come here, not many people want to come here and see all kinds of bigoted statements. I'm sure there are other forums which allow that type of thing, and you are free to go there if you feel like "we decide what should people view and what not"

There are things which are universially accepted as offensive, and no matter where you go you'll get yourself in trouble. We mods act on reports. When majority of the people report such statements it means they don't want to see it.

You said we should argue the statement instead of deleting it.. yeah because that works on the internet. How many times have you actually got to an agreement.. 0 is likely the answer. People start throwing insults left and right because this is the internet, and you hide behind your screen. Majority of the people don't like seeing that, as I mentioned above.

 

[Reraru]

In my opinion freedom of speech is when you are allowed to prove yourself right when people blame you for the things you didn't do. Or simply one's opinion not insulting. Tch, there is no freedom of speech in this world.

 

[Ken Kaneki]

Rules of order, without order we shall fall.

Have more faith my friend. People aren't so bad.

You are not making any sense. Moderator by definition is someone who moderates. Arguing is not our job to begin with.

And again you were assigned this role because somebody thought / or it is a convention that all speech that is not acceptable(to some people) must be countered by having people who would delete their speech in the first place. Nobody had the faith that proponents of the right shall be victorious. Faith in people is missing I see.

 

[SoulKiller]

I see that the mods are doing some damage control....

 

[Flakez]

I see that the mods are doing some damage control.... *smirks*

What I ( and others) have said applies to almost any internet community, it's not exclusive to NB. And also real life in general.

 

[Reraru]

@ken kenkai in your signs it says freedom is speech is expressing yourself. Charlie didn't express his self he insulted Islam. It is so wrong.


Similarly if a person expresses his thoughts it's alright but if he bashes someone it's wrong even if it's a mod.

Trolls get banned for bashing right? Similarly charlie got banned.

 

[SoulKiller]

What I ( and others) have said applies to almost any internet community, it's not exclusive to NB. And also real life in general.

You clearly missed what I intended when I said "damage control" but I will leave you with yourself thoughts to figure it out yourself ^^

Have a nice day sir.

 

[Ken Kaneki]

I'll speak strictly about NB, because it's obvious why you made this thread. As Ira said the admins created this site, and they decided for themselves that racism, sexism, misogyny.. whatever you name it is not accptable and they don't want to see that on their site. They want people to enjoy themselves when they come here, not many people want to come here and see all kinds of bigoted statements. I'm sure there are other forums which allow that type of thing, and you are free to go there if you feel like "we decide what should people view and what not"

There are things which are universially accepted as offensive, and no matter where you go you'll get yourself in trouble. We mods act on reports. When majority of the people report such statements it means they don't want to see it. [\QUOTE]

If I would have wanted to make a thread SPECIFICALLY about NB, I would not have added so many examples. I just linked it to NB because it was pertinent to the discussion. And once again 'GLOBALLY ACCEPTED' keeps on changing. Nobody has the authority to say what is now accepted may not be changed later. So nobody should have the right to take away someone's right to state his opinion.

You said we should argue the statement instead of deleting it.. yeah because that works on the internet. How many times have you actually got to an agreement.. 0 is likely the answer. People start throwing insults left and right because this is the internet, and you hide behind your screen. Majority of the people don't like seeing that, as I mentioned above.

I am seeing so much distrust amongst people that it is astounding.

 

[Yubel]

We all know the Charlie Hebdo incident. Also a lot of people have threatened the makers of South park. People have even expressed anger at Russell Peters. Salman Rushide's work, "The Satanic Verses" has earned him the hatred of many, he was even not allowed to attend a literature festival. There are countless examples and the reasone are many, but none of them are sufficient. I believe in free speech, even when it is offensive to me. Following is a compilation of some extracts.


Right to free speech is essential. However free speech is often not tolerated even on NB and infractions and bans are issued. Even when you think somebody's freedom of speech is hurtful, you have the freedom to decide not to consume the product of their freedom of expression. #FreedomOfSpeechIsAbsolute.

The way I've always understood freedom of speech is you're allowed to say whatever you want aslong as you don't intentionally offend a group of people, race or religion. However, if you're just making your point without any hateful intentions and the person takes offense then it's their problem, not yours.

 

[Avani]

Have more faith my friend. People aren't so bad.


And again you were assigned this role because somebody thought / or it is a convention that all speech that is not acceptable(to some people) must be countered by having people who would delete their speech in the first place. Nobody had the faith that proponents of the right shall be victorious. Faith in people is missing I see.

And people by posting such stupid stuff and acting like hoodlums prove that such faith will be misplaced. You are too blinded yourself to even notice that this faith in people you speak of, is missing from your own end.

@ken kenkai in your signs it says freedom is speech is expressing yourself. Charlie didn't express his self he insulted Islam. It is so wrong.


Similarly if a person expresses his thoughts it's alright but if he bashes someone it's wrong even if it's a mod.

Ah they insulted many not just staff and were posting factually wrong stuff- praise to their friends and bashing to everyone else. But people like to extend support to such trolls in lieu of certain personal benefits, while acting as if they are the one upholding internet rights.

 

[Ken Kaneki]

@ken kenkai in your signs it says freedom is speech is expressing yourself. Charlie didn't express his self he insulted Islam. It is so wrong.
.

Now we actually have a person who approves of Charlie Hebdo incident, a 'globally unacceptable' event. Should you ban them or listen to them ? They have thier side of the story to and must be listened to.

 

[Flakez]

You clearly missed what I intended when I said "damage control" but I will leave you with yourself thoughts to figure it out yourself ^^

Have a nice day sir.

If you refering to the thread that was made earlier, I wasn't here, so this has nothing to do with that.

@Ken Again you are free to say certain things, but you can't go around saying offensive things to a person or group of people. That doesn't work anywhere. Everyone has a right to state their opinion as long it's done in a proper, non offensive matter.

What distrust? I have been part of many internet communities over the years, and I know first-hand what I'm talking about.