Free will is only an idea

[|KirA|]

My Will wanted to read the new Naruto.
It didnt exist.
I saw your thread.
I like such discussions, but i have a bad feeling.
My Will says, it is impossible to talk about such topics with people here.
So I agree, Free Will doesnt exist, but u shouldnt post here, if u want serious discussions.

EDIT: If u want, we both can discuss via skype or similiar.

 

[DESTRUCTO]

alright last one for real this time lol

But you still made the decision to lose weight because you wanted to look better, am I right?

You wanted to look better because society is what deems beauty(being thin, muscular, etc.) and yes beauty is different in many forms(you may have your own personal tastes), but that is still considered to be the primary qualities of beauty on the outside

You wanted to be attractive

You didn't want to be lazy because you want to go achieve something and compare yourself to others, not in a negative narcissistic way, but to be defined as accomplished rather than be known as a bum

Our society is what defines these terms

These terms influence your wants, and the wants influence your decisions.

The key phrase is I wanted... Without my desire for such a thing, it wouldn't have happened. That is free will, to get off my lazy ass and do something. No matter the influence.

Are we free? Absolutely not, as we are tied to the things that make us human and that which life would be impossible without, as specified in the OP.

Do we have free will? Certainly, as our will is free, no matter what; one cannot overlook the fact that all action is indeed choice. But free will is only existent where choice is, no matter how biased or compelling it is.

How compellingly contradicting, yet true.

 

[drknght]

but when you see the hundred dollar bill....the first thought to pop into your mind is to pick it up and not the opposite. If there was a hundred dollar bill lying on the ground with no else around.....then it's almost certain that everyone would choose to pick it up.

The choice has been made for you. The hundred dollar bill that is laying there is what's forcing you to choose in the first place....and you only have 2 choices, to pick it up or leave it alone, thus you have no free will in not choosing anything.

And you pick it up because the hundred dollar bill has a positive outcome to it, it is a reward, and humans are inclined to choose to their benefits due to their nature. So this is the outside factor which pulls you into picking up the hundred dollar bill, it influences you and your choice....making the choice not of free will

free will means original choice without any other outside factors edging you to make it.

Now you are just fooling around. I either pick it up or don't. What the **** else can I do. I would pick it up and wipe myself with it. Seriously, this is the last time I fell for this kind of trap.

 

[LolChidori]

I think every one has free will. You have the freedom to act on your own choices. A person can have the free will to stop you, however, you have the obligation to go through with it. It's only a matter of whether you're willing to deal with the consequences or not. Even in a grand society when they prohibit you from doing certain things by law; you are still capable of defying the law. People are forbidden to do things but they still do it-And they face the aftermath. That is all. We are individuals, like it or not. Doesn't matter if you're in ties with the corporation of this world and running on the way they run things. However, there are boundaries of course... Suggests the universal life. You do not have the free will to randomly grow wings and take off at your own leisure.

 

[ProdigyXItachi]

Are we free? Absolutely not, as we are tied to the things that make us human and that which life would be impossible without, as specified in the OP.

Do we have free will? Certainly, as our will is free, no matter what; one cannot overlook the fact that all action is indeed choice. But free will is only existent where choice is, no matter how biased or compelling it is.

Expertly said my friend!! I agree that there is the ability to think and make choices which effect ourselves and those around us. . . I believe that the problem Lightbringer is having is over the definition of "freewill." From an absolute fundamentalist viewpoint maybe there is nothing "free" about the choices we make (because everything we do is ultimately "forced" or determined by our set and setting, both of which are oft outside our limits of control). So . . . another words where do we draw the line???

 

[jdorm]

Well not any goal, and the mindset doesn't control reality. If you are starving in the desert, you can't will yourself to find food; you can't will yourself to not die.
this was a consecuence of your free will, you had free will to train to survive in the desert or take supplies

Just because we will ourselves to become rich, doesn't mean we will(yes the chances of becoming rich would sure increase, but it is not a guarantee)
again this is a consequence of free will the way to be rich depends on your actions not your wish

Same goes with choice, we can't will ourselves to not make certain choices. For example: If you find someone or something(like music) attractive, you cannot will yourself to not be attracted to it.

a positive or a negative even a neutral choice is sign of free will

It is only until the other driving forces of these are realized(like personality) affects our judgement.

free will is the thought of the action not the result of the action

 

[DeViliShChild]

You are only bound by what you choose to be bound by.

 

[Lord of the Kings]

Freewill is the gift of God.In fact,it was based on control.

 

[Ōkami]

Freewill is the gift of God.In fact,it was based on control.

i don't remember giving you free will but whatever

 

[cptenn94]

free will exists.

free will does not mean that you will like the other choice, that you could choose.

you can choose to stop breathing, but a consequence would be death. So because you dont want death you breathe. However you are still free to not breathe.

I could spend time rebukeing all your statements, and show how there is still free will.

Simply when it comes to free will, you are free to make whatever choices that you want, simply you may not like the results of the choice. So that is why you dont make the choice, and that ultimately gives the illusion, that do not have a choice in the matter.


Now all that said, i do like the thought, and considering that you put into your theory. While it truly is inacurate, it was interesting to read.

So with what i have shown is that free will exists.

But what you almost got at that wouldve been correct, is FREEDOM, TRUE FREEDOM, is very rare to find.

None of us have real freedom.

We have to obey laws and act and be a certain way.

In a truly free society, you would be able to kill your neighbor.
Take anything you wanted.
Go anywhere you wanted.
etc, anything you can imagine.

So simply, freedom itself is not always a good thing, you need to have some basic rules, or all freedom can be controlled.
If you lived in a free society, and wanted to make a farm, and just farm, someone could take away your ability to farm(ie takeing your freedom to farm) and destroy all your crops and equipment.

So in essence, there is no such thing as true freedom, as long as free will exists, and or there are no rules.
The closest thing to true freedom, is these few laws. 1 no killing unless the person wanted to be killed. 2 respecting others properties

with those laws, you get the closest thing to true freedom as possible, as the only thing you are not free to do, is take away others freedom(as killing someone removes them from the world, and renders them unable to continue to do the things they desired(as they did not want death, and if you mess with others properties, then they are not free to live without you messing with their properties.


So in essence there is such a thing as free will, true honest free will. But there is no true freedom.

 

[drknght]

What is the difference between a free person and a prisoner?

 

[Vexorian]

I agree with you to a certain point, but this is what I have to say. I do what I need to most of the time, and the rest of the time I do what I want. In that little bit of time, I do have free will, regardless of what you have to say about it.

 

[Dribbles]

The definition of free will is defined by you, no one else.

 

[Ldude]

So many idiots. :sy:

 

[Scryed]

It's more like Free will is a difficult thing to interpret when it comes to our choices here.

 

[Kamikage]

OT: I don't know what's up with the insults, but I think you're confusing necessities with what we can choose to do. Like this post. I'm choosing to post because I want to share my opinion. However, I can choose not to if I want to keep my opinion to myself. If you say that I don't have "free will" because your thread made me want to post this, then that's wrong because then that would be the same as me saying you have "free will" because you are sharing your opinion that we don't have "free will" on NB. Then you would counter it with what you believe in and I would do the same. In the end, it's all on you. Personally, I believe we have "free will" because we can make out own decisions. I can choose not to eat, then I'll die. I can choose not to breath, then I die. I can choose to do what might seem impossible, and if I fail, I die. It's my choice of doing the wrong thing that would lead me to dying. On the other hand, I could choose to live. With basic facts like gravity and all that, those laws, and we do not have "free will" over laws. Laws are rules, and you could break them, but it could be punishable or difficult to break. So again, in my opinion, we have "free will" over things that aren't laws or necessities...

 

[Gaara]

Didn't read it on my free will.

Lol same. I just read replies.

 

[Ganta]

To sum it up, we have free will but choose not use it to the fullest due to consequnces that society we live in puts on us.

 

[Lightbringer]

What is the difference between a free person and a prisoner?

The thing is about a free person and a prisoner.....a prisoner is put into a cell block and he has limited amount of choices, and many of this choices are influenced by the prison laws.

He can't will himself out, otherwise he wouldn't be a prisoner, so now he is forced to make certain choices everyday because of the prison laws. So he has no choice but to choose.

It is like saying if I take away your Skittles, and only let choose either the 1 red or 1 green one(yet there are many different other colors I hold) I am limiting your choice forcibly; while I(the free person) can choose whatever skittle I want and how many I want with no limit.

We, just like prisoners, are limited with choice but on a much larger scale. We are limited by reality and all our decisions are because certain forces collided which put us in the position to choose, and when we choose, reality chose the number of "skittles" and the color we can choose from.

if we see someone or something(like music) and we are attracted to it, we can't force ourselves to not be attracted to that object or person; only until the other external factors(like a persons personality) is revealed are we forced to alter our judgement in some way. We cannot choose to not be influenced by these factors.

So my point is that "free-will" is an incorrect term to use....there is nothing "free" about our choice. But instead the correct term would be just "will" because that is the human force which inevitably makes the choice we are given.

Free will would mean we are unshackled with choice, and the choice is pure and original; there are no driving factors that decided how many choices we have, what kind of choices, or the situation.

 

[drknght]

The thing is about a free person and a prisoner.....a prisoner is put into a cell block and he has limited amount of choices, and many of this choices are influenced by the prison laws.

He can't will himself out, otherwise he wouldn't be a prisoner, so now he is forced to make certain choices everyday because of the prison laws. So he has no choice but to choose.

It is like saying if I take away your Skittles, and only let choose either the 1 red or 1 green one(yet there are many different other colors I hold) I am limiting your choice forcibly; while I(the free person) can choose whatever skittle I want and how many I want with no limit.

We, just like prisoners, are limited with choice but on a much larger scale. We are limited by reality and all our decisions are because certain forces collided which put us in the position to choose, and when we choose, reality chose the number of "skittles" and the color we can choose from.

if we see someone or something(like music) and we are attracted to it, we can't force ourselves to not be attracted to that object or person; only until the other external factors(like a persons personality) is revealed are we forced to alter our judgement in some way. We cannot choose to not be influenced by these factors.

So my point is that "free-will" is an incorrect term to use....there is nothing "free" about our choice. But instead the correct term would be just "will" because that is the human force which inevitably makes the choice we are given.

Free will would mean we are unshackled with choice, and the choice is pure and original; there are no driving factors that decided how many choices we have, what kind of choices, or the situation.

My point was that the prisoner gets food for free and a free person has to work for it.