France wtf!?

[ArabianLuffy]

Theists believe in one god. Atheists believe in none. If you are, let's say, a fanatic Christian who has misinterpreted the religious texts, you are still a theist, because you believe in a god. That can make you a non-Christian, but never an atheist.

I'll be non-Christian if I misrepresented God's teachings?

 

[Brandy]

I'll be non-Christian if I misrepresented God's teachings?

Am I not making myself clear? If you are a person who believes in the existence of a god or gods, you are a theist. No matter your interpretations of the holy texts (the Bible, the Quran, etc), you are still a theist, because you believe in a god or gods.

Even if you are a part of the LGBTQ, you can still be religious. Many homosexuals and trans believe in a creator of sorts, which makes them theists.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

That's not entirely true, they've held belief systems based off of ideals. The word religious is a vague term per se. I think Arabian Luffy is referring to the source of ideals being a divine power(legitimate source) vs man(illegitimate source) made ideas. As for cultures they come from customs and norms, some customs have religious aspects to them other customs do not. They become the identity of a people there's nothing Xenophobic about it unless the source of ideals is taken into account. Authoritiarianism can be both good and bad if the source of ideals is taken into account.

Are you trying to say authoritarianism is justified so long as it follows scripture to the letter? That's ridiculous. What do you mean by "considering the source of ideals" and does it go beyond differentiating religious ideas from ordinary ones? If not, that's an awful metric to determine what is and is not good, bad, or xenophobic. What you're saying is too vague to actually write on.

Wrong.

It's true. The obvious examples being the kings of Europe justifying their position with divine right as peasants starved, how muslims are considered incompatible with the western world largely because of their religious beliefs, and the trail of discrimination left by religions, which can easily be seen in the homophobia of places like Congo after Christian missionaries touched it.
You can say their interpretations weren't right all you want, but they could say the same of your own since it's so subjective. You may as well say "people like myself" in place of "right."

 

[ArabianLuffy]

Am I not making myself clear?

I'm confused when you said (That can make you a non-Christian, but never an atheist.)

No matter your interpretations of the holy texts (the Bible, the Quran, etc), you are still a theist, because you believe in a god or gods.

Brandy, the misinterpretations of God's words are what led to the slaughter in the name of God. It happened in Christianity and Islam. What ISIS did is inconsistent with Quran's teachings, and lately they came up with the idea of what I would translate to English which is called "The Jihad of ***", the fight, the struggle by ***. ISIS implemented this idea in their soldiers. Make ISIS soldiers breed from women, and they scheduled it and this made it ridiculous. Non of what ISIS did represent anything of Islam. ISIS ideology as a whole is inconsistent and what proves my words a self-proclaimed attacks of ISIS on Muslims. Even on sunni Muslims.

- They claim to be sunni Muslims
- They attack and kill sunni Muslims
- They even destroy Mosques, the houses of God (Allah)

How what they do make ISIS Muslims? How we fit together what they claim to be and what they do against Muslims? You can't say: "No matter your interpretations of the holy texts (the Bible, the Quran, etc), you are still a theist". Interpretations require understanding of God's teachings.

Even if you are a part of the LGBTQ, you can still be religious. Many homosexuals and trans believe in a creator of sorts, which makes them theists.

LGBTQ can be religious, but ask them if they're familiar with the story of Lut (Lot in some saying). God made his position clear against who kill, steal and mate with the same gender. God took it upon Himself to torture who ruin on Earth. The story has been mentioned in Quran, and I believe also the story shared in Old Testament and Bible before Quran.

 

[Brandy]

How what they do make ISIS Muslims?

It doesn't make them Muslims, but it doesn't make them atheists either. They're theists who believe in a misinterpreted version of the Quran.

You can't say: "No matter your interpretations of the holy texts (the Bible, the Quran, etc), you are still a theist".

I can say that, because it's true.

LGBTQ can be religious, but ask them if they're familiar with the story of Lut (Lot in some saying). God made his position clear against who kill, steal and mate with the same gender. God took it upon Himself to torture who ruin on Earth. The story has been mentioned in Quran, and I believe also the story shared in Old Testament and Bible before Quran.

What's your point?

 

[Skorm]

I had to meme this.

You must be registered for see images

 

[ArabianLuffy]

I can say that, because it's true.

To you they are theist, but to true theists like Jews, Christians and Muslims it's extremist misrepresenting God's words.

What's your point?

My point is for example the Muslim community rejects homosexuality. It's against nature, and because of homosexuality, things like same gender marriage came to existence and this led to control of language that learners in French schools won't say father and mother? I dunno what Judaism and Christianity would say on this matter.

 

[Brandy]

To you they are theist, but to true theists like Jews, Christians and Muslims it's extremist misrepresenting God's words.

You can't decide definitions on your own whims. Theists ARE people who believe in a god or gods. Even if they believed in, for example, Set, the Egyptian god of chaos and evil, they would still be theists.

My point is for example the Muslim community rejects homosexuality. It's against nature, and because of homosexuality, things like same gender marriage came to existence and this led to control of language that learners in French schools won't say father and mother? I dunno what Judaism and Christianity would say on this matter.

What does the Quran say about stealing?Because right now you're stealing my precious time with these pointless arguments of yours.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Are you trying to say authoritarianism is justified so long as it follows scripture to the letter? That's ridiculous. What do you mean by "considering the source of ideals" and does it go beyond differentiating religious ideas from ordinary ones? If not, that's an awful metric to determine what is and is not good, bad, or xenophobic. What you're saying is too vague to actually write on.

This will definitely head into a philosophical discussion and I'm not going to go into that. That's too much and time consuming.

By Authoritiarianism being a good thing I mean the rule of law. Following scripture to the letter then goes into complicated territory of who's interpretation is right. There are times when there is leniency in the scriptural law, due to circumstance or overriding principles and if follows to the letter it wouldn't be right. You'd have primary principles and secondary principles. In essence the law is incorruptible where's humans are, it's not bound by our whims and desires but by it's own principles.

I'm saying a person's ideals decide whether something is right or wrong. Something may be right in the eyes of one person and at the same time wrong in the eyes of another. Who and what decides something is right or wrong? Humans, who are influenced by their own ideals/agenda/goals amongst other things? Then people would argue the divine is the only legitimate source as it's not influenced by us and is neutral towards all. So the source of law would need to be the divine.

It's going to remain vague, I was only pointing out religion is not responsible for Xenophobia. Peoples personal experiences, cultural differences, environment, nature and even preservation of species etc are the true influencers.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

This will definitely head into a philosophical discussion and I'm not going to go into that. That's too much and time consuming.

By Authoritiarianism being a good thing I mean the rule of law. Following scripture to the letter then goes into complicated territory of who's interpretation is right. There are times when there is leniency in the scriptural law, due to circumstance or overriding principles and if follows to the letter it wouldn't be right. You'd have primary principles and secondary principles. In essence the law is incorruptible where's humans are, it's not bound by our whims and desires but by it's own principles.

I'm saying a person's ideals decide whether something is right or wrong. Something may be right in the eyes of one person and at the same time wrong in the eyes of another. Who and what decides something is right or wrong? Humans, who are influenced by their own ideals/agenda/goals amongst other things? Then people would argue the divine is the only legitimate source as it's not influenced by us and is neutral towards all. So the source of law would need to be the divine.

It's going to remain vague, I was only pointing out religion is not responsible for Xenophobia. Peoples personal experiences, cultural differences, environment, nature and even preservation of species etc are the true influencers.

Literally all the influences you named in the last part are shaped by religion. What would it even mean to not follow scripture by the letter? Even the spirit of the letter is subject to interpretation. Laws are literally never without judges for a reason.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Literally all the influences you named in the last part are shaped by religion. What would it even mean to not follow scripture by the letter? Even the spirit of the letter is subject to interpretation. Laws are literally never without judges for a reason.

They're not, it's a multitude of factors and largely by human ideals, not the divine, which lead to Xenophobia. The judge system is interesting because a judge also puts their own spin on it. They become God in a sense which leads to the corruption of the law.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

They're not, it's a multitude of factors and largely by human ideals, not the divine, which lead to Xenophobia. The judge system is interesting because a judge also puts their own spin on it. They become God in a sense which leads to the corruption of the law.

Yes, they are. We're literally talking about a theocracy. Laws and policies affect the environment people grow in, so religion does have an influence over the environment if the laws are based on it. Religion is also a moral code, so people's behavior will often align to it, thus meaning even the people surrounding you emit religious influence on your ideals. If I went to another country and there was a shit ton of gay guys holding hands, I'd probably consider that a bad experience if I were muslim. The preservation of a species part can be seen in conflicts where one religious group fears they cannot coexist with others and attempts to create safehavens for themselves(Pakistan & Israel being the most glaring). There are legitimate differences between religious groups and others and it's polarizing enough to make them xenophobic.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Yes, they are. We're literally talking about a theocracy. Laws and policies affect the environment people grow in, so religion does have an influence over the environment if the laws are based on it. Religion is also a moral code, so people's behavior will often align to it, thus meaning even the people surrounding you emit religious influence on your ideals. If I went to another country and there was a shit ton of gay guys holding hands, I'd probably consider that a bad experience if I were muslim. The preservation of a species part can be seen in conflicts where one religious group fears they cannot coexist with others and attempts to create safehavens for themselves(Pakistan & Israel being the most glaring). There are legitimate differences between religious groups and others and it's polarizing enough to make them xenophobic.

I never entirely removed religious influence from cultures and ideals go back to when I originally quoted you. I said it's not the factor responsible for Xenophobia. Holding hands is a norm in Muslim countries, but you'd associate it with being gay. What gives you the idea it automatically makes one gay, portrayal in your culture, norms developed over time, or is there a religious injunction that makes it so? Those that follow scripture consider divine the source of ideals and would dislike sodomy, as they consider it the act of deficiency. That doesn't make them wrong or their opponent right. Pakistan was born on the presumption of preservation of freedom to practise Islam, not preservation of species. Israel wasn't born out of preservation of species, if it was they wouldn't have put it where they'd be surrounded by opponents. It was born out of Zionist ideology and to give the US, UK and France a strategic ally in the Middle East. Religion was used to draw the Jews back in, en masse. I admit the Jews(not all) do have a master race complex, but that's them. Generally they don't make people Xenophobic, the want to survive and preservation of species do(some would call them evolutionarily inherited factors). Fear of the other is the driving factor and religion may become the tool in some instances, but it's not the cause. Look at the Chinese and Japanese they have ingrained hatred for one another, but that's not because of religion. They have other reasons, but if they start using religious difference to cement the hatred that doesn't make religion responsible for it.

 

[ArabianLuffy]

You can't decide definitions on your own whims.

Where in this thread I ever defined anything? Don't put words I didn't say in my mouth. Let me make myself clear: Those who misrepresent God's words, those who misinterpret sources such as the holy book, don't represent a religion whatever religion is.

Theists ARE people who believe in a god or gods. Even if they believed in, for example, Set, the Egyptian god of chaos and evil, they would still be theists.

I can't say anything about that.

What does the Quran say about stealing?

Cut the hand that steals.

Because right now you're stealing my precious time with these pointless arguments of yours.

You're the one who mentioned LGBTQ. Such an Ad hominem, but you can run from this debate. You have nothing to argue about.

 

[Brandy]

Where in this thread I ever defined anything?

"To you they are theist, but to true theists like Jews, Christians and Muslims it's extremist misrepresenting God's words."

There is no such thing as a "true" theist, which you defined as Jews, Christians and Muslims. If you believe in any god, you are a theist, no matter your religion or interpretations of the holy texts.

Cut the hand that steals.

Do you honestly believe in this kind of punishment?

You're the one who mentioned LGBTQ. Such an Ad hominem, but you can run from this debate. You have nothing to argue about.

This thread is literally about the LGBTQ and their indirect cause to France's new law. You blame atheists for this new law, when religious and non-religious trans were actually the cause of it.

 

[ArabianLuffy]

"To you they are theist, but to true theists like Jews, Christians and Muslims it's extremist misrepresenting God's words."

and I used ISIS as an example. I didn't deny them being theists. I questioned it for killing people of their same faith.

There is no such thing as a "true" theist, which you defined as Jews, Christians and Muslims. If you believe in any god, you are a theist, no matter your religion or interpretetions of the holy texts.

OK. Fine.

Do you honestly believe in this kind of punishment?

Simply, yes. It deters Muslim community from stealing. Sure stealing still happening and our authorities lean to other alternative punishments like:

- Paying high fine + Prison for unknown how long
- Lashing to starts from 40s and up. Depends on what an official judge see fit. Counting age, times a thief tried to steal. Until after 2nd or 3rd time of stealing, the judge will
Probably all 3 (fine + lash + prison)
- or the final judgement after meeting other requirements mentioned above

Because of outside influence from other countries, Saudi Arabia re-considered the Islamic laws of stealing. If a thief did steal again, cutting his hand is bound to happen, because stealing (Kleptomania) is a mental illness that in Islam's view, the only treatment is cutting one hand of a thief.

This thread is literally about the LGBTQ and their indirect cause to France's new law. You blame atheists for this new law, when religious and non-religious trans were actually the cause of it.

What is the point of the story of Lot that is shared in all the Abrahamic religions? This habit of homosexuality, where you think it came from? I understand very well that I'm being harsh and sounds like an asshole, but should I lie to a religious part of the LGBTQ?

 

[Skorm]

What about all those people who doesn’t want to be defined as a person?

 

[salamander uchiha]

What about all those people who doesn’t want to be defined as a person?

Then they should lose human, rights me thinks

 

[Skorm]

Then they should lose human, rights me thinks

No, just person rights O_______O. Or well, person 1/2 rights z-z

 

[salamander uchiha]

No, just person rights O_______O. Or well, person 1/2 rights z-z

Person is too vague, a cockroach also has it's own personailty. What rights does it have lol?