If madara cannot be forgiven then no character can all the 5 villages have done their share of bad things
Lol you're calling me dumb yet you're the one comparing a manga series based on untrue event is a time period 100 years ago to the actual early colonization of America which actually happened... Lol How old are you and what's your keel of education? Troll.you're pretty dumb we all know people from back then were alot more sexist i mean you think the pilgrims weren't sexist you're a fool its how things were back then and Madrara was just one of the people of that time period.
Kaguya almost killed Sasuke had it not been for Naruto. I don't see how she is a worse villain.he was a bad ass villian who deserves praise thank you madara for being a villian and actually doing your job as a villian and now we got someone even worse kaguya.
fodderdara unknowingly turned everyone into zetsus.Lord Madara turned Hell into Heaven. even your fav is living in happiness in IT..
I'm pretty sure Obito was 14 years old while Nagato was like 24 when they met LOLZabuza uses Haku... a child.
Obito uses Nagato, a young, confused adult.
Countless children are slaughtered during warring states period because they are all conscripted as part of military might for clan...
Orochimaru uses Kabuto as a young, confused adult. Tries to use Sasuke. Uses Karin... and, to an extent, Juugo and Suigetsu, uses Sound four, who could hardly be older than Naruto and Sasuke's current age...
Kabuto manipulated a DYING Kimimaro into getting Sasuke to Orochimaru, who couldn't be too old himself.
Using people younger than you isn't exactly a new concept in Naruto.
Just because Madara likes battle doesn't mean he doesn't WANT peace. You can have two conflicting opinions with different emotions for both. It's like... Me for example. I could never kill an animal, but that doesn't necessarily make me a vegan (a standout point of vegans being that they are often against animal slaughter) but I am borderline carnivore. It's a shitty example, but I can't really think of anything else that comes close.
Danzo/Elders use Itachi...
And Madara is "oh such a terrible villain" for using Obito? This isn't exactly a new theme in Naruto.
An end goal doesn't justify the steps taken when alternative steps are possible.Yes I can forgive Madara. As far as he knew, the infinite tsukuyomi would have created eternal peace. It was a great and benevolent idea. It was just unfortunate that Madara was actually deceived by Black Zetsu. Had Madara known that the infinite tsukuyomi was just a ploy for the user to absorb chakara and turn everyone into white zetsu slaves, then he wouldn't have even done the things that he did.
Madara was a tragic hero. Kaguya was the real villain here.
If you think about what Madara's end goal was, not many alternative steps were possible (if any at all). The infinite tsukuyomi actually required him to awaken the rinnegan and gather the bijuus and become the juubi's jinchuuriki. That said, the rinnegan took so long to awaken that Madara actually had to use Obito and Nagato in order to go forth with his plan (because Madara was too old and near death by the time of the rinnegan's awakening). If you ask me why Madara had to use them and do things such as orchestrate people's deaths instead of just peacefully asking the likes of Obito and Nagato (or anyone else) to help them, it is because not many people would understand or be willing to help him if he just asked. Therefore, he had to use underhanded tactics to get their support.An end goal doesn't justify the steps taken when alternative steps are possible.
Besides that, the main focus of OP was the character of Madara. Everything he did before Konoha (the fighting) and after reincarnation (needlessly killing soldiers and enjoying it) was not necessary for his end-goal. His end-goal also doesn't account for his general enjoyment of bloodshed.
He can be defended for his end goal, but everything else is another matter
Potential is the counterpart of achievement, because the latter has already been done but the former has not yet been done.If you think about what Madara's end goal was, not many alternative steps were possible (if any at all). The infinite tsukuyomi actually required him to awaken the rinnegan and gather the bijuus and become the juubi's jinchuuriki. That said, the rinnegan took so long to awaken that Madara actually had to use Obito and Nagato in order to go forth with his plan (because Madara was too old and near death by the time of the rinnegan's awakening). If you ask me why Madara had to use them and do things such as orchestrate people's deaths instead of just peacefully asking the likes of Obito and Nagato (or anyone else) to help them, it is because not many people would understand or be willing to help him if he just asked. Therefore, he had to use underhanded tactics to get their support.
What's more, he had to tell Obito to gather the bijuus because... well obviously the revival of the juubi requires the bijuus. Of course, the shinobi nations wouldn't just hand over their bijuus. Hence, the activities of the akautski and ultimately the 4th great ninja war became necessary.
Therefore, arguments can be made against the notion that "alternative steps are possible".
As for everything he did "before Konoha" (I'm assuming that you are talking about the era of warring states before the establishment of Konoha):
Madara didn't really do anything then (so to speak). Sure, he killed people in war. However, so did everyone else. Hashirama killed people in war. Tobirama killed people in war. Butsuma Senju killed people. Tajima Uchiha killed people. It was war after all. What do you expect?
Furthermore, that war was not a war that Madara started. It was simply a war that he was born into and couldn't help but fight in.
As for his actions as an edo tensei and after his revival as a rinne tensei:
You say that he needlessly killed soldiers, but that is not true. Just as in the era of warring states, the 4th great ninja war was... war! He had to kill them or else they would seal him away, and that would of course ruin his plan. You can't really fault someone for killing in war (and if you say that he is the one who started this war, I already explained why this was necessary).
As for his enjoyment of bloodshed, you misunderstand Madara. Madara didn't enjoy bloodshed. Madara enjoyed fighting. This is common in these shonen battle series. Almost every shonen battle series has at least one character who enjoys fighting. Usually, that person does not necessarily enjoy killing. Rather they enjoy the fighting itself.
Think about Goku. He loves fighting, but not necessarily killing. He loves to fight all out battles against powerful opponents, and in general, he likes to have both himself and the opponent walk away alive and live to train and fight again another day.
Of course, when killing is necessary, then Goku will kill. He does not like the killing, but even so, he still enjoys the fighting in the meantime.
That is how Madara is. Madara enjoys the fighting, not the killing. Madara just has to kill because whenever we saw him fight, it was during a time of war.
A testament to my point that Madara enjoys fighting and not killing, is the fact that edo Madara got really excited about fighting edo Hashirama. Edo Hashirama was already dead, so there would literally be no bloodshed or death in that. It would be just fighting. Heck, Madara even wanted to fight Hashirama before becoming the juubi's jinchuuriki so that it could be a fair fight. That emphasizes that Madara really just liked fighting, not necessarily killing.
To be honest, Madara hated killing/bloodshed. This is why he was trying to make peace in the first place. This is even why he shared dreams with Hashirama back when they were kids.
Yes I can forgive Madara. As far as he knew, the infinite tsukuyomi would have created eternal peace. It was a great and benevolent idea. It was just unfortunate that Madara was actually deceived by Black Zetsu. Had Madara known that the infinite tsukuyomi was just a ploy for the user to absorb chakara and turn everyone into white zetsu slaves, then he wouldn't have even done the things that he did.
Madara was a tragic hero. Kaguya was the real villain here.
bobito titn't gather no bijuus it was tobidara...there are tings edomadara ignored..If you think about what Madara's end goal was, not many alternative steps were possible (if any at all). The infinite tsukuyomi actually required him to awaken the rinnegan and gather the bijuus and become the juubi's jinchuuriki. That said, the rinnegan took so long to awaken that Madara actually had to use Obito and Nagato in order to go forth with his plan (because Madara was too old and near death by the time of the rinnegan's awakening). If you ask me why Madara had to use them and do things such as orchestrate people's deaths instead of just peacefully asking the likes of Obito and Nagato (or anyone else) to help them, it is because not many people would understand or be willing to help him if he just asked. Therefore, he had to use underhanded tactics to get their support.
What's more, he had to tell Obito to gather the bijuus because... well obviously the revival of the juubi requires the bijuus. Of course, the shinobi nations wouldn't just hand over their bijuus. Hence, the activities of the akautski and ultimately the 4th great ninja war became necessary.
Therefore, arguments can be made against the notion that "alternative steps are possible".
As for everything he did "before Konoha" (I'm assuming that you are talking about the era of warring states before the establishment of Konoha):
Madara didn't really do anything then (so to speak). Sure, he killed people in war. However, so did everyone else. Hashirama killed people in war. Tobirama killed people in war. Butsuma Senju killed people. Tajima Uchiha killed people. It was war after all. What do you expect?
Furthermore, that war was not a war that Madara started. It was simply a war that he was born into and couldn't help but fight in.
As for his actions as an edo tensei and after his revival as a rinne tensei:
You say that he needlessly killed soldiers, but that is not true. Just as in the era of warring states, the 4th great ninja war was... war! He had to kill them or else they would seal him away, and that would of course ruin his plan. You can't really fault someone for killing in war (and if you say that he is the one who started this war, I already explained why this was necessary).
As for his enjoyment of bloodshed, you misunderstand Madara. Madara didn't enjoy bloodshed. Madara enjoyed fighting. This is common in these shonen battle series. Almost every shonen battle series has at least one character who enjoys fighting. Usually, that person does not necessarily enjoy killing. Rather they enjoy the fighting itself.
Think about Goku. He loves fighting, but not necessarily killing. He loves to fight all out battles against powerful opponents, and in general, he likes to have both himself and the opponent walk away alive and live to train and fight again another day.
Of course, when killing is necessary, then Goku will kill. He does not like the killing, but even so, he still enjoys the fighting in the meantime.
That is how Madara is. Madara enjoys the fighting, not the killing. Madara just has to kill because whenever we saw him fight, it was during a time of war.
A testament to my point that Madara enjoys fighting and not killing, is the fact that edo Madara got really excited about fighting edo Hashirama. Edo Hashirama was already dead, so there would literally be no bloodshed or death in that. It would be just fighting. Heck, Madara even wanted to fight Hashirama before becoming the juubi's jinchuuriki so that it could be a fair fight. That emphasizes that Madara really just liked fighting, not necessarily killing.
To be honest, Madara hated killing/bloodshed. This is why he was trying to make peace in the first place. This is even why he shared dreams with Hashirama back when they were kids.