[Discussion] For the posters who understimate how strong Akatsuki really was..

[Michael92]

Well, i can also say that Kakuzu and Sasori were both Underestimated and overestimated at the same time:

Reason for Sasori:

He had some insane "dead anyway in 3 days if you get hit, so too bad for you" attacks. But lets just say that Sasuke with his Susano`o and one amaratsu should be enough.
Or Killerbee with his 8 tail mode.
Naruto with 100ed clones to fight all of Sasories puppets and one Rasen... out of nowhere... Bam! his dead.

But at the same time. How did he manage to beat a man(third Kazekage) who had ironsand whice stops the movement of his puppets? and whice is said to be the greatest Kazekage in historie.

That, and that fact alone puzzels me

Reason for Kakuzu:

He might be fast and have a lot of elements` attack, but seriously. I think many here including me overestimated Kakashi at that time. The same goes for Shikamaru whice doesn`t have any real 1 hit ko attacks like Naruto, Sasuke, Killerbee and Gaara.

He might be good at long/mid range, but any of those mentioned above could have taken him down without too much trouble.

And don`t misstake me. I`m talking about every characters current state in the manga, and the Akatsuki members(except for Itachi, Pein, Madara, Zetsu, and Maybe Kisame) state when they died.

So i would say on a scale from 1 out of 10 in a "best ninja in Naruto historie" scale Where The Sage of the six paths is a 10, First Hokage, 4th Hokage, Madara and Pein was/is a 9. And Naruto and Sasuke at their current state are either a 8 or 9:

Deidara and Hidan:

Good compared to normal ninjas, but nothing compared to Pein, Madara, Itachi, Naruto, Sasuke, Gaara, Killerbee at their current state.

Deidara 6, Hidan 5

Sasori and Kakuzu:

Both had some insane techniques, but they underestimated their opponets and didn`t have much to spare when they died.

Sasori 7.5, Kakuzu 6.5.

And Itachi on probobly 8 or 9, Kisame on 8 or 8.5, Zetsu on "no clue", Konan and Orochimaru(not counting).

So if Madara and co. are going to stand a chance in the future they need at lest 5 new members at 8, or 9.

That was my point all along. I never said all of Akatsuki

 

[Michael92]

Kenshin Himura: The letters in black:
Deidara beated Gaara fair and square (re-read the manga).. He probably can beat all of Konoha with the Exception of Naruto & Kakashi.. (not counting Sasuke here).

First of all. I`m guessing by all in Konoha you also are excluding: Jiraiya, Tsunade, Gai, and all the rest of the past?
I would actually say that Kakashi and Gai are on the same level, but they`re at least 2 places above asuma.

Personally, i think you`re forgetting Gai. You might even count Shino inn with his bugs

Back to "fair and square": You could even say that Konan could have beaten Sage of the six paths fair and square if he was on brink of death when she came along and delivered the final blowxd

Sure you could say that they won, but you`re not counting the condition and the fighters level at that time.
Well you might say thats exactly what we should do, but i`m more referring to the characters in the manga`s current level and not when they fought.

Secondly, his long range attack was fatal, but when he fought an opponent in an open battle field and not by running away or by using the battle field to his advantage first(you know), then we could see how good he really was, like proved in his fight against Sasuke, where Sasuke could have ended the battle right away, and Sasuke didn`t even have any of the sharingaan powers back then

You probobly would say that Sasuke beat Orochimaru fair and square too, wouldn`t you?

Hidan actually beated one of Konoha's best..

If you consider Asuma as one of the best, then you can`t really have much clue at all, now can you?

Sure, he was good, and man i was pissed of when he died, but seriously. Compared to the other great names in the Naruto historie, he was nothing(poor Asuma).

Kakuzu beated Kakashi..

Kakashi wasn`t really on his prime then as i believe he is now. Kakashi and Zabusa are actually the same. They look really awsome at first, but they can`t be compared to the really big names like Itachi, Jiraiya, Pein, Raikage, the 1st and 4th Hokage, and so on. Just to mention some.

Itachi can go god mode...

I never said Itachi, Pein, Zetsu or Madara for that sake, only counting Deidara, Sasori, Konan, Hidan, and Kakuzu(if he had been so great, don`t you think he should have beaten the 1st Hokage or at least ended the battle in a draw?).

Kisame could own all the Kages (with the exception of Danzo) if it wasn't for the betrayal of the gay ass sword..

Kisame was good. And after his (only) 30% chacra fight against Gai you would expect him to be insane. But after seeing him in the fight against Killerbee, i somehow was a little disapointed. He depended way to much on his sword, and without Samahada he didn`t have much more to spare(He might still be alive though, and if so he could get another chance to prove himself)

Pein,let's not even talk about it...

The same as i wrote under Itachi

I could go on and on..

Please do

I have intentions to rank them all in this thread..


Lastly i strongly believe after reading yo?r last post, that we have a huge different level scale when we compare Akatsuki members.

You might be comparing them to people like Kakashi(when he fought Kakuzu), and Asuma, but my scale is on a way higher basic.

If they were suppose to be any threat in the future, then all of them have to be at Jiraiya or Sasuke/Naruto level, if not. All of them are going to end up like the rest... Dead.

At least that`s my thought. So before we can come to an agreement we should first and foremost put the members at the same scale, and not like we have them now.

I`m guessing Raven is doing the same as me

 

[Michael92]

Anyway so far from me:
-Deidara 7.5/10
-Hidan 6/10
Next Kisame..

Why not do away with the weakest ones first and then build upwards?

You should do the two who were the superiors to the ones mentioned above first

Sasori and Kakuzu...

 

[Michael92]

He was the best ninja using water element

If you mean alive/recently dead, then i agree with you, but if you mean in historie, then... Blam!... wrong.

That was the 2nd Hokage, who could use the most insane water tech. ever whice had to be preformed with 50 arm seals or so first... He could do it with only 1-3

 

[John Constantine]

Why not do away with the weakest ones first and then build upwards?

You should do the two who were the superiors to the ones mentioned above first

Sasori and Kakuzu...

I already ranked Sasori and described him.. I'm just ranking them randomly for fun..
Gaara and Kakashi didn't got much better since thei're fights against the Akatsuki members..
And Asuma was indeed one of the great Konoha warriors and one of the last Senju..
Gai is very far from Kakashi's level my friend..

I ranked them so far. If you missed it:

- Kisame - 8.5/10
- Sasori - 8.2/10
- Deidara - 7.5/10
- Hidan - 6/10

As for some of the other "good" guys mentioned. I would say:

- Gai - 7/10
- Kakashi - 8.2/10
- Asuma - 6/10

 

[John Constantine]

If you mean alive/recently dead, then i agree with you, but if you mean in historie, then... Blam!... wrong.

That was the 2nd Hokage, who could use the most insane water tech. ever whice had to be preformed with 50 arm seals or so first... He could do it with only 1-3

Alive i meant off course.. Stop making so much damn double and triple posts.. Nothing against you but your attitude is really bad..

 

[Michael92]

Otherwise, i must say that this is a really impresive thread, with a lot of info on each character. Can`t wait for Konan
I hope we can still keep this discussion clean and on topic

Peach Out

 

[Michael92]

I already ranked Sasori and described him.. I'm just ranking them randomly for fun..
Gaara and Kakashi didn't got much better since thei're fights against the Akatsuki members..
And Asuma was indeed one of the great Konoha warriors and one of the last Senju..
Gai is very far from Kakashi's level my friend..

I ranked them so far. If you missed it:

- Kisame - 8.5/10
- Sasori - 8.2/10
- Deidara - 7.5/10
- Hidan - 6/10

As for some of the other "good" guys mentioned. I would say:

- Gai - 7/10
- Kakashi - 8.2/10
- Asuma - 6/10

Alive i meant off course.. Stop making so much damn double and triple posts.. Nothing against you but your attitude is really bad..

xd Sorry, but i just had to since i missed a lot of the discussion earlier. So i had to take post by post, starting with the first

And about Gai. Actually i think he`s underestimated. We haven`t really seen too much of him lately or at all. Like Kakashi and Asuma have gotten a lot of screen time, i`m guessing Gai is up next

 

[John Constantine]

Other wise, i must say that this is a really impresive thread, with a lot of info on each character. Can`t wait for Konan
I hope we can still keep this discution clean and on topic

Rolleyes means Sarcasm men.. You shouldn't use it much. Posters can take it as an offense..
Actually i don't know much about Konan,so i will just re-read 2 or 3 chapters and translate what i think about her..
The others i just did from the top of my head..
Konan and Pein are the only ones i would need to re-read to better describe their powers..
I mean i know alot about Pein but not accurately like some posters here..
I would also like other posters would do their descriptions as well..

Edit: I think Gai is strong but he's very undimentional.. He only uses Taijustsu and he's far from being a genious.. I think 7 out 10 is fair

 

[Michael92]

Rolleyes means Sarcasm men.. You shouldn't use it much. Posters can take it as an offense..
Actually i don't know much about Konan,so i will just re-read 2 or 3 chapters and translate what i think about her..
The others i just did from the top of my head..
Konan and Pein are the only ones i would need to re-read to better describe their powers..
I mean i know alot about Pein but not accurately like some posters here..
I would also like other posters would do their descriptions as well..

Its just because Narutobase doesn`t have any good only the whice sucks by the way, and means.: I`m a crybaby, and everything i say is the only right thing

Yeah, i actually thought you searched up on Kisame and stuff, very deep and intersting, keep going(this smilley looks really gay btw.)

Well actually, by saying: "I can`t wait for Konan" you could take it both way, since there aren`t much to tell about her, other than she sucking assxd

 

[Michael92]

Alive i meant off course.. Stop making so much damn double and triple posts.. Nothing against you but your attitude is really bad..

As long as you don`t comment, last post today/tonight:

How could i have known? If you had said "is", then it would have been easier to understand, but since you said, "was", it got a little confusing.

My attitude ain`t bad Perhaps annoying like Hidan or Naruto sometimes when i have to tripple or quadra-double post, but not bad.

If i`ve been trash-talking or being completely off topic and offended people, then it would have been bad.

That`s like saying your attitude is bad just because you have different opinions than me, whice you at some point have.

You don`t have to be so mean

 

[John Constantine]

Its just because Narutobase doesn`t have any good only the whice sucks by the way, and means.: I`m a crybaby, and everything i say is the only right thing

Yeah, i actually thought you searched up on Kisame and stuff, very deep and intersting, keep going(this smilley looks really gay btw.)

Well actually, by saying: "I can`t wait for Konan" you could take it both way, since there aren`t much to tell about her, other than she sucking assxd

I'm a huge fan of Kisame and know much about him.. I just hope he's still alive..
I mean the whole arc with the Hachibi was a fiasco..It lasted like 2 chapters.
Kisame totally owns Hachibi,all of a sudden the sword turns out to be homosexual and falls in love for Hachibi's chakra..
How convenient Kishimoto?? Cliche..
Not only that but the way he "died" was just lame and ended right there..
Some respect,Kisame was the first Akatsuki introduced along Itach back in Part I..

As long as you don`t comment, last post today/tonight:

How could i have known? If you had said "is", then it would have been easier to understand, but since you said, "was", it got a little confusing.

My attitude ain`t bad Perhaps annoying like Hidan or Naruto sometimes when i have to tripple or quadra-double post, but not bad.

If i`ve been trash-talking or being completely off topic and offended people, then it would have been bad.

That`s like saying your attitude is bad just because you have different opinions than me, whice you at some point have.

You don`t have to be so mean

My mystake there.. I meant "was".. I didn't liked the way you said "If you think Asuma was one of the strongest on Konoha,then you have no clue"..
I think people here already aknowledged me as a good poster with a sheer fair of knowledge about the Naruto world and i didn't liked how you were reacting to my opinions..
But let's face it who do you have stronger then Asuma in Konoha??
Naruto,Gai,Tsunade & Kakashi and perhaps Shikamaru..It's not a lot of people out of tons of Ninjas.. Not counting Jiraiya since he's almost always out of Konoha or Sasuke or Itachi..

 

[yoshimitsu]

alright im back.

since it was kenshin's idea for this thread, ill proceed my analysis as he has following the same order.

firstly,

Kisame doesnt have the ability to beat Jiraiya because sharks dont eat toads?



Probably one of the most retarded statement I have ever said.

May I also remind you it was a mistranslation anyway, and they were talking about kyuubi power.

[...]

Jiraiyas good, but his popularity carries him into ranks that are quite frankly laughable

why the personal attack? what i write i base on verifiable facts and hypothesis deduced logically from the situations. dont just flame me without providing arguments for your claims.

i dont recall any mistranslations or misconceptions you claim i've made. i remember them clearly talking about not being able to defeat jman. itachi was able but he had a hidden agenda, we all know now. i will explore this topic during my itachi analysis.

first off, hidan. he wasnt the smartest or most skilled in any category. he didnt demonstrate the use of ninjutsu or genjutsu, he wasnt the most talented fighter either seeing as kakashi took hidan and kakuzu at the same time.

apart from immortality, he had nothing going for him. if anything, his biggest handicap was being so stupid. if he didnt have that blood curse ability, even asuma would have killed him. he's in fact so stupid he got his partner killed with his own ability.he could have hid himself to do it, but he shows it off whilst unknowingly giving out his secret.

i give him a meager 5/10.

next is deidara. he was a badass in his own way too. he was headstrong as hell, training his eye to see through deception. should have used that perseverance in improving his airborn skills. to me, that was his greatest advantage. he was out of reach of most users.

he also was an artsy-wartsy guy, which they didn't really develop in the series, which i thought was really cool. if only he played an instrument too..

his only flaw was his speed. if he were able to outrun kakashi's warp MS ability, he'd be really strong. gaara is also very strong, but you cannot base deidara's strength on his victory over gaara alone. yes he had been tricked by deidara and had some bombs tunnel their way through the sand, but do keep in mind gaara was primarily focused on the safety of his village.

in a 1v1 battle, gaara probably would not have used such sand techs close to him. he would most probably attack with it and only use shields to defend himself. without having to care for the safety of countless citizens you are responsible for, gaara could have focused on a single target and not waste so much pointless chakra.

i can't say the outcome of said duel, but it surely would not have been as easy as it was for deidara.

also, vs his battle with sasuke, speed played a huge roll. even at the initial stages of the battle, deidara was impressed by sasuke's speed and had to take flight in order to protect himself. if he trained himself to be super fast, he could throw bombs from a far distance, travel faster than the velocity of the bombs thrown, throw more subsequently, and create some huge chain bomb extravaganza worthy of calling art. or maybe circle an enemy and throw bombs quickly.

i give deidara 6.5/10, with the potential of being a 7.5+/10

 

[John Constantine]

Nice yoshimitsu..
Similar from what i think..
I gave Hidan a 6..You a 5..
I gave Deidara a 7.5..You a 6.5..
I guess you are more strict then myself ahahaha
I was re-reading the Sasori's fight and i had to say it was fantastique battle and Sasori definetely deserves my 8.2..
I gave Kisame 8.5..
What's your take on Kisame and Sasori,yoshimitsu??

 

[Michael92]

My mystake there.. I meant "was".. I didn't liked the way you said "If you think Asuma was one of the strongest on Konoha,then you have no clue"..
I think people here already aknowledged me as a good poster with a sheer fair of knowledge about the Naruto world and i didn't liked how you were reacting to my opinions..
But let's face it who do you have stronger then Asuma in Konoha??
Naruto,Gai,Tsunade & Kakashi and perhaps Shikamaru..It's not a lot of people out of tons of Ninjas.. Not counting Jiraiya since he's almost always out of Konoha or Sasuke or Itachi..

Alright, i may have crossed the line and i should perhaps have placed a "" there, but the way you presented Asuma seemed a little above his level.

I mean, if we`re going to talk about people in Konoha`s historie since you pointed out "was".

Then others than you already mentioned:

Shino and Neji at their current levels(should be interesting to se more of them), Rock lee might beat him with his insane speed and unlocking gates(if he fights like he did against Gaara, then i don`t think Asuma would survive, agree?), all the Hokages, Danzo, probobly the white fang,Yamato, Sai (maybe, but doubt it).

Those are the ones i can think of. And besides, if you place Asuma on a Naruto historie scale, he wouldn`t reach higher than 6 as you yourself
mentioned.

PS: i thought you btw, meant that my attitude was bad because i posted 3 post in row, just because i didn`t have any choise.

But as i can see now what you meant, point taken. Didn`t mean to offend you by no means

 

[yoshimitsu]

next is kisame. i thought he was a real good villain. he was very strong, even without samehada. as kenshin pointed out, he took on gai and his gate opening tricks with very little energy and was still at ease.

as far as him not being able to defeat jiraiya, one first has to know what jiraiya can do. we know he's a water, fire, hair user. he's skilled in ninjutsu, taijutsu, has toad senseis good at genjutsu, is good at summoning, has sage-mode, is a veteran in actual combat, is a sannin as bestowed by whats his face, pervert, drunk, and maybe asuma's uncle? i think jman is related to the 3rd, and the 3rd is asuma's father.

in sage mode, jiraiya probably has gills too. or can make water bubbles underwater to breathe in. in any case, that water prison should not be a problem for jiraiya. jiraiya's smart too, he would come up with a plan to seperate samehada from kisame. or he would summons ma and pa to trap him in a genjutsu. or maybe samehada might go to jiraiya, since some claim the sword is female and jiraiya is a huge flirt. also, frog sashimi is a lot more of a commodity than shark sashimi.

also, we know kisame is a proud fellow. when sasuke tells suigetsu to do whatever he wants because he probably could not defeat kisame yet, kisame smirks and thinks to himself "yet?" he also demonstrates his masculinity when fighting gai on both occasions, even if the latter was vs a clone of sorts. he takes him on very lightly as if he were sure of winning.

all this to say, he would not openly admit defeat towards jiraiya if he didn't have a good reason. maybe they've had a tumble in the past and kishi never bothered to write about it. maybe jiraiya knew kisame's weaknesses because of said battle. conclusion : i believe jman would win vs kisame, sword or not.

getting back to the point, kisame was worthy of being an akatsuki, again sword or not. i doubt it's the sword that gives kisame the ability to generate massive amounts of water or breathe underwater. even before their merger, kisame has gills under his eyes. he had a natural advantage over killer bee because of his giant moving water bubble tech. bee also wasted precious time and air coming up with ideas to save the raccoon and his rapping friend.

so in order to judge a fight, not the fighter, one must look at the circumstances of the fight. not being able to breathe underwater is a bitch. having your sword betray you is a bitch.

the fighter should be judged according to how they react to such situations, not merely by how strong one is. pure power is for the really powerful characters. most of them come up with schemes to overcome their opponent.
i think once im done with the akatsuki guys, ill talk about the heroes, of which id really like to address shikamaru and shino.

kisame, sword or not, gets 7.5/10. samehada gets 5/10, disloyalty is not a turn on in chicks.

NOTE:
Just so people my basis of judging, 10 is not the sage of the six paths. we've never seen him, therefore we do not know the extent of his powers. one can speculate as to how strong he is, but that is irrelevant. suppose he is the strongest of all by far, then everyone else would appear to be 1's or 0.5's to him. a 10/10 is like, sarutobi-hokage. we saw him handle orochimaru and 2 former hokages at his old age, and was able to seal orochimaru's arms. he was also praised as the strongest of all the kages, hokages included. imagine him during his youth? Kishi hasn't developed this yet, or if ever, but from the info he has provided, i can say the 3rd is a 10/10 in my book.

edit: also, just like nagato, kisame would petrify upon attempting to drain sage chakra.

 

[John Constantine]

Alright, i may have crossed the line and i should perhaps have placed a "" there, but the way you presented Asuma seemed a little above his level.

I mean, if we`re going to talk about people in Konoha`s historie since you pointed out "was".

Then others than you already mentioned:

Shino and Neji at their current levels(should be interesting to se more of them), Rock lee might beat him with his insane speed and unlocking gates(if he fights like he did against Gaara, then i don`t think Asuma would survive, agree?), all the Hokages, Danzo, probobly the white fang,Yamato, Sai (maybe, but doubt it).

Those are the ones i can think of. And besides, if you place Asuma on a Naruto historie scale, he wouldn`t reach higher than 6 as you yourself
mentioned.

PS: i thought you btw, meant that my attitude was bad because i posted 3 post in row, just because i didn`t have any chose.

But as i can see now what you meant, point taken. Didn`t mean to offend you by no means

All we are analysing here is present and recent past..
I'm not talking about the White Fangs,Sages & Minatos of the world.. That would be insane to compare for..
In this thread to be specified and i think everybody understood we are talking from beginning of Shippuden till now..
Forget those "Monsters of the past".. You can mention them to measure a guy's strenght like saying Kakuzu is very strong because he survived to Hashirama but not compare to them..

 

[Sharpism]

Don't forget that Hidan was a replacement... I'm pretty sure the FIRST person to be in his place with Kakuzu was just as strong and Kakuzu probably took a cheap-shot due to annoyance.. o___o;

 

[John Constantine]

NOTE:
Just so people my basis of judging, 10 is not the sage of the six paths. we've never seen him, therefore we do not know the extent of his powers. one can speculate as to how strong he is, but that is irrelevant. suppose he is the strongest of all by far, then everyone else would appear to be 1's or 0.5's to him. a 10/10 is like, sarutobi-hokage. we saw him handle orochimaru and 2 former hokages at his old age, and was able to seal orochimaru's arms. he was also praised as the strongest of all the kages, hokages included. imagine him during his youth? Kishi hasn't developed this yet, or if ever, but from the info he has provided, i can say the 3rd is a 10/10 in my book.

I agree with most of your post again and i to think that Jiraiya would beat Kisame (eventhough i prefer Kisame)..
But to say Sarutobi is a 10/10 is pushing it.. Maybe in his prime but we didn't got to see that..
At his fight against Orochimaru he was easily dealed by Oro and Oro wouldn't even need the 2 Hokages.
That was just for emotional purposes from Oro to mess with Sarutobi..
I believe the 2 Hokages were far from his full force.. Take a look at my thread about the subject..

You must be registered for see links

 

[John Constantine]

Don't forget that Hidan was a replacement... I'm pretty sure the FIRST person to be in his place with Kakuzu was just as strong and Kakuzu probably took a cheap-shot due to annoyance.. o___o;

That was mentioned.. Not only one but several of them LOL