first hokage vs madara?

sasori420 · Aug 8, 2009

Everyone keeps saying how incredible the first hokage was for beating madara and being able to control the tailed beasts. But then he and his brother after being brought back to life was beaten by the third hokage who is incredible but was old as hell
so whats with this madara loosing to 1st stipulation, like did madara loose on purpose against him?

Naruto1217 · Aug 9, 2009

sasori420 said:
Everyone keeps saying how incredible the first hokage was for beating madara and being able to control the tailed beasts. But then he and his brother after being brought back to life was beaten by the third hokage who is incredible but was old as hell
so whats with this madara loosing to 1st stipulation, like did madara loose on purpose against him?

First off, I'm gonna say that (in Manga time) At the time of the Shodaime Vs Madara, Shodaime was a Bad Ass, But so was Madara; Madara was able to control the Strongest Bijuu with his Eyes; That Pretty Damn Awesome if I do say so myself; But the Fact that the Shodaime was able to Defeat him was pretty awesome and Madara was probably bitter.:hypertobi:

That being said, There no way madara wanted to throw this fight b/c he wanted to prove that he was Stronger then the Shodaime and that He diserved the title of Hokage instead of the Shodaime. :hypertobi:

As we all Know, Madara did try again to take down the Hokage of a different time, The Yondaime, but again was Unsuccessful, so He's probably really ticked that his plans keep failing; Sooner or later he's gonna have to deal with one of his failed plans called Naruto Uzumaki. :naruto:

As for Why the Sandaime was stronger then the Shodaime and the Nidaime, I think Kakashi put it best, "The new Generation will always surpass the old Generation." :kakashi:

Thats just how the world works. :headband:

moneyezzz · Aug 9, 2009

lol o wow those were like corpse thy didnt have tha same strenth or charkra tht tha real ones had lol only tha moves people can be so dumb

moneyezzz · Aug 9, 2009

lol how do i give someone neg reps

sasori420 · Aug 9, 2009

moneyezzz said:
lol o wow those were like corpse thy didnt have tha same strenth or charkra tht tha real ones had lol only tha moves people can be so dumb

Find me where in the manga or anywhere that says the corpses are weaker than the actually ppl than ill believe you

moneyezzz · Aug 9, 2009

sasori420 said:
Find me where in the manga or anywhere that says the corpses are weaker than the actually ppl than ill believe you

find me were in tha manga tht it says thy are on tha same strenth u cnt can yu

NipponIchi · Aug 9, 2009

i agree with moneyzzz about the chakra strength bit. it would be stupid if orochimaru could summon 2 people that have the same chakra level or more then him and he still has chakra remaining... like when naruto first summons gamabunta he uses up the fox chakra and has none of his own chakra left because gambunta is i dunno strong & big? i think the chakra you get is from the sacrafise for the summons like the sound or sand ninjas whoever they were.. or its split between orochimarus chakra

moneyezzz · Aug 9, 2009

NipponIchi said:
i agree with moneyzzz about the chakra strength bit. it would be stupid if orochimaru could summon 2 people that have the same chakra level or more then him and he still has chakra remaining... like when naruto first summons gamabunta he uses up the fox chakra and has none of his own chakra left because gambunta is i dunno strong & big? i think the chakra you get is from the sacrafise for the summons like the sound or sand ninjas whoever they were.. or its split between orochimarus chakra

yea like cmon i noe tha 3rd was strong in his prime but he was really old if those were rly tha 1st and 2nd oro could of taken over tha hole leaf

Narutard · Aug 9, 2009

moneyezzz said:
lol o wow those were like corpse thy didnt have tha same strenth or charkra tht tha real ones had lol only tha moves people can be so dumb

i second that

zenron · Aug 9, 2009

sasori420 said:
Everyone keeps saying how incredible the first hokage was for beating madara and being able to control the tailed beasts. But then he and his brother after being brought back to life was beaten by the third hokage who is incredible but was old as hell
so whats with this madara loosing to 1st stipulation, like did madara loose on purpose against him?

We didn't really see a lot of the first and second's powers to be honest. The only reason that I believe they were eventually defeated was because they were caught by surprise with a Jutsu that basically kicks ass. The main power that the first had was the ability to control the bijuu(besides the kyuubi), and he didn't have that in the fight. However, the skills we did see were pretty amazing compared to the things we saw the third do. He created an entire forest(We have seen the power that yamato has, and the first's power is so much more) and turned everything into darkness. This shows to me that he is pretty powerful. We only see the second doing one move, where he creates heaps of water out of nothing, so we can't really say how powerful he really is.

I don't think that Hashirama and Tobirama lost to the third on purpose. They were being completely controlled by orochimaru. They didn't have the option of disobeying.

However, in the manga, it does state that the 3rd Hokage is known as the "strongest"(Iruka says it to Konohamaru's academy class).

The only reason I think Hashirama defeated Madara because the combined powers of the other bijuu were stronger than the kyuubi. I don't think the power of the people themselves really mattered at that point, with the limitless amounts of chakra flying about.

I was reading part of the Manga just this morning, and thought the same thing you did. This was the explanation I came up with.

Moneyz - At the top of every post, the third button a long(the flag). You can neg rep someone there, although it really isn't needed. It was a valid question.

Chakra · Aug 9, 2009

sasori420 said:
Everyone keeps saying how incredible the first hokage was for beating madara and being able to control the tailed beasts. But then he and his brother after being brought back to life was beaten by the third hokage who is incredible but was old as hell
so whats with this madara loosing to 1st stipulation, like did madara loose on purpose against him?

those "hokages" did not fight at full strength because they weren't their real bodies. they were sacrificial bodies that morphed to look like the hokages because their souls entered the bodies.

also due to that summoning jutsu, they did not fight logically. they were merely robots with powers of the 1st and 2nd hokages but lack the complete power level and mentality.

twistedlink · Aug 10, 2009

1st hokage had all beasts apart from 9tails

Madara had 9tails

Akatsuki states clearly you need to seal 8 of the tailed beasts to balance the power.

Therefore having 8 tailed beasts is the same power or more than the 9tails.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, the 1st hokage is probably not that great once you strip him of his tailed beasts.

the 2nd hokage was chosen when the 1st was still young looking, like 30 odd.

And then you see the 3rd being given the title when he was TINY unless 1st and 2nd were 8ft tall the 3rd got the job when he was a CHILD, and the 1st hokage still looked 40-50 max.

Personally when he distributed the beasts he lost a lot of power and his brother and the 3rd were much stronger after that.

Technically also 1st hokage didn't win against madara, as madara is still alive.

platinum69 · Aug 10, 2009

This was the jutsu used to summon the 1st and 2nd...

* Name: Summoning: Impure World Resurrection (口寄せ・穢土転生, Kuchiyose: Edo Tensei; Viz "Summoning: Worldly Resurrection", English TV "Summoning Jutsu: Reanimation")
* Type: Kinjutsu, S-rank, Supplementary[1]
* User: Orochimaru
* Hand Seals: Tiger → Snake → Dog → Dragon
* Debut (Anime): Naruto Episode 69
* Debut (Manga): Chapter 117

Summoning: Impure World Resurrection is a forbidden technique used to revive the dead. The ninja will first sacrifice a living person to provide the vessel that the dead soul will inhabit. The dead body will then be encased in ash and dirt to resemble the original body of the person that was resurrected. When the ninja wishes to recall the souls, a portal will open in the ground and the caskets holding the bodies will appear. When the caskets open the bodies will be gray and in a state of minor decay, requiring a special seal to restore their appearance. At this point, the revived person remembers their former lives, and thus is not under the user's control. The same seal used to restore their appearance also wipes the soul of its free will, putting them under the user's control. This technique can also be used to summon multiple people at once, depending on the amount of sacrifices and the chakra level of the user.

Once complete, the revived is impossible to kill by normal means. If a limb is destroyed or removed, it will simply regenerate. To kill the revived, the soul has to be removed. When the Third fought against the revived First and Second Hokages, he had to create shadow clones and perform the Dead Demon Consuming Seal on both of them to kill them. In doing so, the bodies turned back to ash and dust, with the bodies of the individuals sacrificed to lay among the ashes.

reference from Wikia: