Finally it is over. Time to see how a real villain battles.

[silenceofthelambs]

I don't know about you, but the Pain arc was one of my favorites in the entire manga. There was a lot more action in this arc than in probably any other. And to say Sasuke is stronger than Nagato...last time I checked, Sasuke didn't have the ability to control life and death, or control attraction and repulsion, now did he? Sasuke going to Konoha isn't going to lead up to an attack...two reasons why I think so. First, we've just gone through 20 or some chapters where Nagato completely annihilated Konoha and killed many of its villagers, and secondly...if Konoha is already in ruins, what more is there left to attack?

 

[peaceful]

I don't know about you, but the Pain arc was one of my favorites in the entire manga. There was a lot more action in this arc than in probably any other. And to say Sasuke is stronger than Nagato...last time I checked, Sasuke didn't have the ability to control life and death, or control attraction and repulsion, now did he? Sasuke going to Konoha isn't going to lead up to an attack...two reasons why I think so. First, we've just gone through 20 or some chapters where Nagato completely annihilated Konoha and killed many of its villagers, and secondly...if Konoha is already in ruins, what more is there left to attack?

I never said that Sasuke is stronger than Nagato. I said he has more potential than Nagato and he will be stronger...

 

[Mugiwara]

I never said that Sasuke is stronger than Nagato. I said he has more potential than Nagato and he will be stronger...

And nagato doesnt have potential to get stronger since he a half dead sceleton sitting in a wheelchair, if someone else had the rinnegan, and possibility to master it without interruption from wars and shit, than the user would be alot more stronger, all techs depend on the user, but as for rinnegan, it has much more secrets and much more power in it, maybe some not stronger than MS abilities, but combined, yes, all the ninjutsu in the world against EMS techs.

 

[peaceful]

And nagato doesnt have potential to get stronger since he a half dead sceleton sitting in a wheelchair, if someone else had the rinnegan, and possibility to master it without interruption from wars and shit, than the user would be alot more stronger, all techs depend on the user, but as for rinnegan, it has much more secrets and much more power in it, maybe some not stronger than MS abilities, but combined, yes, all the ninjutsu in the world against EMS techs.

Sasuke just because he is the anti-hero and the main antagonist, just for that, let alone that he is a prodigy even compared to Uchiha standarts, has greater potential than almost everyone except maybe the protagonist. So, following the rules and limitations of SHounen means that he will ultilize it to iis fullest.

 

[Avani]

To be honest, I'm not sure how it will be "exciting" watching those 3 chunnin level ninja

Chunin??? Sasuke or Kabuto never passes the chunin exams....technically they are genins...

He was weak if we take into account his hype and his motherfuckingipwnallofyou Rinnegan which turned out to be even weaker than mangekuy if not simple, base sharingan. He did not play any significant role for the manga except for giving Naruto the opportunity to achieve Sage mode. Oh and killing a wandering and almost missing nin Jiraya.

Weaker than MS??? Shinera tensi would have destroyed entire Uchiha clan before they had time to activate any kind of Sharingan. Power to make a moon, giving life - no, MS is not half as strong. Ever tried to revive anyone?

Whereas Sasuke is a character with a deep personality.

ROFLAO

He has much more potential than Pain and Nagato. Actually in the 50 next chapters he is going to be stronger than Pain.

Pain and Nagato are not two people. In next chapter even Iruka is going to be stronger than Pain. A dead body without rinnegan has no strength.

Finally, Kabuto. Kabuto with Orochimaru has much more potential than Pain as well. Keep in mind that he does not have a doujutsu and he was on par or stronger than Tsunade in part 1 and he most probably surpassed Tsunade by now. So yes, he is a real fighter.

So, summing up Pain was good fighter without depth. He was fodder to say the most.

Kabuto is a nuisance. That's all he is. He was a side kick. He lacks Orochimaru's intellect. Don't get me wrong he is cunning and an excellent Medi nin. But, Oro still was his master.

There are many people who could have avoided Chibaku. Some of them are Kakashi,Madara,Itachi,Zetsu and Naruto

Even Zetsu?

Speculation, speculation and some more of it.

Show me a page that Nagato killed a Sharingan user with Chibaku tensei or any other devastating jutsuwhen he attacked Konoha...

You may as well, show us a page where any Sharingan user was able to defeat any rinnegan user.

Destroying the entire village is not devastating enough. I see.

Itachi only wanted to assasinate the Uchihas, not completely destroy the village. Also he assasinated Uchihas, not some fodder Konoha citizens. Also keep in mind that Sharingan is best when fighting one on one. Also, in the manga Itachi was shown not to even be exhausted.

I cannot see how this makes Rineggan more proficient than Sharingan.

If MS would have been as strong as rinnegan, Madara wouldn't need to leave the village. Unlike Itachi, Madara had no problems with collateral damage and he did want to kill everybody off in Konoha or destroy it.

Sharingan:abillity to discern chakra. Cause confusion to the opponent. Proficience to genjutsu. Ability to copy any movement or jutsu as shown by Sasuke when he copied Lees tai and Kakashi copying rasengan from Minato. Finally ability to read opponents movement.
Mangekuy: More proficiency in Genjutsu. Amaterasu: Instant flames that can burn anyone. Tsukuyomi: Best genjutsu. Susanoo: Best jutsu we have seen untill know in the manga. Kamui: Ability to suck someone in another dimension.
Eternal mangekuy: Much more proficiency in genjutsu. And if it is Madara's eternal mangekuy power: Ability to make yourself intagible a time-space jutu better than the one the fourth used.

Genjutsu has very limited effect on Rinnegan user. Secondly Rinnegan has abilty to kill of masses in one go.

Rinnegan would make instasnt black flames disappear between rubbles... If Yamato can fight them off and let his team a chance to follow Madara, Shinera tensi would handle it as well.

Susano was excellent - no doubt. But, Rinnegan user had lot more chakra than Sharingan users have shown so far. After wasting so much chakra in destroying the village, Nagato still manage to put up a fight with Naruto.

 

[Preta]

You just like being reported, dont you?

What is that? You can't handle when people are honest with so you whine to the admin? Your lucky others have thicker skins about your off base posts, you could learn something.

Some things that Madara could have done without even causing commotion.

I'm sorry, weren't you just making fun of someone for saying Pain hadn't shown all his power and calling it speculation and more of a fanfic? Pal you have no idea how madara would have done in the same situation, so here's a cute one for you since I know you're a fan of words. Hypocrite. Look it up.

Why are you still here posting nonsensical posts?

Just how far out of your league are you? It just looks embarassing at this point. If you could show that, infact, a sharingan user could match the power I just summed up from Pain, then feel free. But if you have no asnwer, because there isn't one, then just accept it and don't try to fancifully wiggle your way out of it with another of your poorly placed pseudo intellectual words. Not gonna work on this one.

Listen, it's this simple, you slipped up, you failed, now accept it rather than acting like a cornered animal and trying to justify your position to everyone in the thread. Rinnegan is far beyond the Sharingan, Kishi himself told us this when he had J-man give us the history of it, calling it the most powerful of the three eye techniques and the eye technique of the very founder of ninjutsu.

Now, you could have said Madara is more powerful than Pain, and that point could be argued for or against because of madara's experience advantage, but you slipped up and compared techniques instead of their users, stating that sharingan is greater than rinnegan. That has been shown to be simply a fallacy. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you can move on to your next poorly thought out statement.

 

[peaceful]

Chunin??? Sasuke or Kabuto never passes the chunin exams....technically they are genins...

LOL. Pain got defeated by a genin.

Weaker than MS??? Shinera tensi would have destroyed entire Uchiha clan before they had time to activate any kind of Sharingan. Power to make a moon, giving life - no, MS is not half as strong. Ever tried to revive anyone?

The ability to revive does not make Rinnegan stronger thn Sharingan. Also, as i have said many timeschiha members are best when fighting one on one while Rinnegan users ultilize better their powers for mass destruction but they have problems when fighting one on one with strong opponents. We saw Pain strugling to defeat Jiraya, and himself said that he would have been dead has JIraya known his secret. He lost to Naruto. And he had a decent fight wit Kakashi. Whereas Uchiha members like Itachi, who has pwned Orochimaru twice, Kakashi once and Deidara.

ROFLAO

This is a common reaction by people who are Uchiha haters and biased towards Sasuke.

Pain and Nagato are not two people. In next chapter even Iruka is going to be stronger than Pain. A dead body without rinnegan has no strength.

Flamebait, whatever. I compared the Pain who fought Naruto with the Sasuke we are going to see in the next few chapters.

Kabuto is a nuisance. That's all he is. He was a side kick. He lacks Orochimaru's intellect. Don't get me wrong he is cunning and an excellent Medi nin. But, Oro still was his master.

Kabuto was said to be on par with Kakashi or even stronger. We can logically assume that he has improved since part 1 and that he has become even stronger after absorbing Orochimaru.

Even Zetsu?

He can go below the earth.

Speculation, speculation and some more of it.

No. It is a conclusion based on a logical process of thinking based on the abilities we have seen from these characters.

You may as well, show us a page where any Sharingan user was able to defeat any rinnegan user.

You can make it less abvious that you are not reading my posts. Whatever, i will just quote myself:

We have only seen only one user with Rinnegan whereas we have seen countless Uchihas. So the possibilty of an Uchiha defeating a Rinnegan user is around 1% and decreases even more if we take into account that the user is around Naruto's level which means he is strong. On the other hand the possibilty of a Rinnegan user defeating an uchiha member is around 60% something that rises even more if we take into account that there were fodder Uchiha members. So, no i am quite right with my statement.

Destroying the entire village is not devastating enough. I see.

The village can be re-built.

If MS would have been as strong as rinnegan, Madara wouldn't need to leave the village.

Your post makes no sense. Elaborate, please.

Unlike Itachi, Madara had no problems with collateral damage and he did want to kill everybody off in Konoha or destroy it.

We do not know the whole truth yet. So let leave this topic alone untill we see what the manga shows.

Genjutsu has very limited effect on Rinnegan user. Secondly Rinnegan has abilty to kill of masses in one go.

No it has not. If Pain is affected by Tsukuyomi then because of the shared vision every body will be affected and Nagato dies.

Susano was excellent - no doubt. But, Rinnegan user had lot more chakra than Sharingan users have shown so far. After wasting so much chakra in destroying the village, Nagato still manage to put up a fight with Naruto.

LOL. Madara has just survived because of his chakra. Also their chkara is even more sinister than this of Kuybis. By the way Sharingan user can control Kuybi. Kuybi>Nagato...

 

[Mugiwara]

Pain had only problem killing jirayia because he was running away and hiding, and the beginning he only faced 3 of the 6 bodies, and luckily killed one body as he charged through his barrier, when the 5 bodies found him, the instantly killed him without using any special techniques.
when he was fighting against kakashi, he only used 2 bodies, and then backup came, and he still owned all of them.

If he was going up against a harder opponent and his intentions were to kill him, he would have used Kuchiyose: Gedō Mazō.

And again, nagato could have killed kyuubi if he wanted, but he wanted to seal its chakra away, with gedo mazo.

 

[peaceful]

Pain had only problem killing jirayia because he was running away and hiding, and the beginning he only faced 3 of the 6 bodies, and luckily killed one body as he charged through his barrier, when the 5 bodies found him, the instantly killed him without using any special techniques.
when he was fighting against kakashi, he only used 2 bodies, and then backup came, and he still owned all of them.

If he was going up against a harder opponent and his intentions were to kill him, he would have used Kuchiyose: Gedō Mazō.

No. jiarya lost because he was surprised of the sudden attack, because he thought he had killed the bodies. Even Pain said that he would have been dead had Jiraya known his secret.

 

[Mugiwara]

thats all what being ninja is about, not letting the opponent notice u and surprising it.

 

[peaceful]

thats all what being ninja is about, not letting the opponent notice u and surprising it.

Oh well, then Itachi is a lot better ninja than pain.

 

[Mugiwara]

Oh well, then Itachi is a lot better ninja than pain.

But thats not what we are discussing, we are discussing which eye tech is better

 

[sageofmyobokuzan]

LOL. Pain got defeated by a genin.



The ability to revive does not make Rinnegan stronger thn Sharingan. Also, as i have said many timeschiha members are best when fighting one on one while Rinnegan users ultilize better their powers for mass destruction but they have problems when fighting one on one with strong opponents. We saw Pain strugling to defeat Jiraya, and himself said that he would have been dead has JIraya known his secret. He lost to Naruto. And he had a decent fight wit Kakashi. Whereas Uchiha members like Itachi, who has pwned Orochimaru twice, Kakashi once and Deidara.

Kabuto was said to be on par with Kakashi or even stronger. We can logically assume that he has improved since part 1 and that he has become even stronger after absorbing Orochimaru.


No it has not. If Pain is affected by Tsukuyomi then because of the shared vision every body will be affected and Nagato dies.

i think we all understand that naruto is not an ordinary genin dude i think its accepted that naruto can be categorized as kage level now, i mean he's been battling kage level people in all of part 2

and if uchihas excel at fighting battles one on one than wouldnt the six paths of pain destroy an uchiha member?? cause it would be six against one??

so are u saying that kabuto is going to be a match for sasuke now??? how can kabuto be a true villain when he is planning on killing another one of your true villains?? so that means only one of them will get to be a villain because only one is going to survive the battle, which is probably sasuke, unless you think someone could beat an uchiha member. and also how is sasuke going to develop into a true villain when we know naruto is going to change sasuke's mind and bring him back to the side of good?? so basically sasuke is going to have the same change of heart that nagato did

im sure nagato knows of itachi's techniques so couldnt he just have the body itachi is facing close its eyes while the other bodies surrounding him are unaffected allowing the body or bodies in itachi's eyesight to still see itachi, allowing them to still attack him. this would also drain itachi or sasuke's energy because of how much it harms the user with each use

 

[peaceful]

i think we all understand that naruto is not an ordinary genin dude i think its accepted that naruto can be categorized as kage level now, i mean he's been battling kage level people in all of part 2

The other firstly said that Kabuto and Sasuke are both Genin. And so i said that Naruto is still a genin too. What do you keep not reading my previous posts?

and if uchihas excel at fighting battles one on one than wouldnt the six paths of pain destroy an uchiha member?? cause it would be six against one??

It depends on the user. But an average Uchiha member would lose to Pain.

so are u saying that kabuto is going to be a match for sasuke now??? how can kabuto be a true villain when he is planning on killing another one of your true villains?? so that means only one of them will get to be a villain because only one is going to survive the battle,

There is that thing which is called plot you know. Neither of them has to die if they battle.

which is probably sasuke, unless you think someone could beat an uchiha member. and also how is sasuke going to develop into a true villain when we know naruto is going to change sasuke's mind and bring him back to the side of good?? so basically sasuke is going to have the same change of heart that nagato did

Speculation.

im sure nagato knows of itachi's techniques so couldnt he just have the body itachi is facing close its eyes while the other bodies surrounding him are unaffected allowing the body or bodies in itachi's eyesight to still see itachi, allowing them to still attack him. this would also drain itachi or sasuke's energy because of how much it harms the user with each use

That is something you stole from me. I was the first one to say it in the Pain s Itachi thread in one of my two big posts.

 

[sageofmyobokuzan]

The other firstly said that Kabuto and Sasuke are both Genin. And so i said that Naruto is still a genin too. What do you keep not reading my previous posts?

It depends on the user. But an average Uchiha member would lose to Pain.

There is that thing which is called plot you know. Neither of them has to die if they battle.

Speculation.

That is something you stole from me. I was the first one to say it in the Pain s Itachi thread in one of my two big posts.

depends on the user?? wouldnt it also depend on the strength of the opponents?? just because its an advanced uchiha does not mean the same rules dont apply, if you pit a single uchiha against multiple opponents controlled by someone of the same caliber of that uchiha, so a kage level opponent like nagato, is it not logical that the opponent to the uchiha member would have the upper hand???

you honestly think that kabuto, who has a man crush on oro, is going to settle for anything less than killing sasuke??? if anything kabuto is gonna force sasuke to kill him, unless you think a non-uchiha like kabuto could hang with an uchiha of sasuke's caliber. are you saying that sasuke could beat pain but kabuto would give sasuke a run for his money???? when that is a 1 v 1 fight??

and really, you think its speculation that naruto is gonna change sasuke?? so the fact that naruto has never once failed to keep his ninja way means nothing i guess. naruto swore he would bring sasuke back and if we look at the manga, and the fact that naruto is the protagonist, im pretty sure he will succeed. wait im not pretty sure, im deadset on the idea of naruto changing sasuke

wait what do u mean stole from you?? i just explained how nagato could avoid tsukoyomi and you say i stole it from you. i dont remember you saying that and im apologize if it appeared i was trying to steal your idea. but let me ask you this. if you said that in another thread arent you contradicting yourself right now?? cause i was saying nagato could defeat itachi because of his six paths of pain, and you said i stole the idea from you, which means at one time you said the same thing. so you also think that the rinnegan is better than the sharingan?? if this isnt what your trying to say by all means say so. but you have me confused with that last statement??

 

[peaceful]

you honestly think that kabuto, who has a man crush on oro, is going to settle for anything less than killing sasuke??? if anything kabuto is gonna force sasuke to kill him, unless you think a non-uchiha like kabuto could hang with an uchiha of sasuke's caliber. are you saying that sasuke could beat pain but kabuto would give sasuke a run for his money???? when that is a 1 v 1 fight??

OMG. The fight can be interrupted you know. Use some common logic at least just for the sake of the argument.

and really, you think its speculation that naruto is gonna change sasuke?? so the fact that naruto has never once failed to keep his ninja way means nothing i guess. naruto swore he would bring sasuke back and if we look at the manga, and the fact that naruto is the protagonist, im pretty sure he will succeed. wait im not pretty sure, im deadset on the idea of naruto changing sasuke

Still it is speculation.

wait what do u mean stole from you?? i just explained how nagato could avoid tsukoyomi and you say i stole it from you. i dont remember you saying that and im apologize if it appeared i was trying to steal your idea. but let me ask you this. if you said that in another thread arent you contradicting yourself right now?? cause i was saying nagato could defeat itachi because of his six paths of pain, and you said i stole the idea from you, which means at one time you said the same thing. so you also think that the rinnegan is better than the sharingan?? if this isnt what your trying to say by all means say so. but you have me confused with that last statement?

Tsukuyomi is not the only power of Sharingan. And read the previous posts and you will understand why i chose these words.

 

[sageofmyobokuzan]

OMG. The fight can be interrupted you know. Use some common logic at least just for the sake of the argument.

Still it is speculation.


Tsukuyomi is not the only power of Sharingan. And read the previous posts and you will understand why i chose these words.

you mean the sake of your argument right? why is it so unreasonable to think the fight will not get interrupted. the only reason you brought up the fight getting interrupted is because it keeps you from having to answer my post. how many times has a fight gotten interrupted in the manga??? especially in part 2.

ok fine dude its speculation for now

i found one of your posts from that thread but i dont think gedo mazo had been revealed yet. and yes it shortens lifespan but if nagato were facing an elite uchiha like madara, sasuke, or itachi im pretty sure that he would use it if he had to and that would be the deciding factor

 

[kitu9]

im sorry but i hate how u stated that naruto is genin lvl first off its stated in the manga that he surpassed the 4th and jaraiy (miss spelled) so stop this nonscence its obvious that u made a mistake and u dont wont to admit it its pathetic.

 

[Avani]

LOL. Pain got defeated by a genin.

Yep.

The ability to revive does not make Rinnegan stronger than Sharingan. Also, as i have said many timeschiha members are best when fighting one on one while Rinnegan users ultilize better their powers for mass destruction but they have problems when fighting one on one with strong opponents. We saw Pain strugling to defeat Jiraya, and himself said that he would have been dead has JIraya known his secret. He lost to Naruto. And he had a decent fight wit Kakashi. Whereas Uchiha members like Itachi, who has pwned Orochimaru twice, Kakashi once and Deidara.

Jiraiaya knew resengan and sage mode- same as Naruto and could have used it better if he realised how Nagato was using it. Jairaiya didn't even see the 6 pain at start and had a disadvantage of being at enemy's turf he knew nothing about. So yeah Nagato was probablly right in his assertation.

Decent fight for Kakashi- that's a better way to put it. I doubt that Kakashi could survive shinera tensi.

This is a common reaction by people who are Uchiha haters and biased towards Sasuke.

Sweeping generalisation like that is not here nor there and shows lack of a proper argument on your part. It also shows inability to accept that everyone who aren't uchiha fanboy category must be the haters.

Itachi is one of my favourite charcter and I don't hate Sasuke. I just think he needs a big punch to set his brains working. He hasn't shown much of depth in recent years...- obsessiveness, yes.

Madara is a really good three dimentional villain. He is a kick ass fighter, has a sense of humour, is cunning and manipulative to the highest degree and doesn't dirty his hands if he can avoid it- gets puppets to do the job. I like how he was introduced and how his personality and abilities just keep on adding.

Rest of the Uchiha clan- never gave any reader much reason to love or hate them.

Kabuto was said to be on par with Kakashi or even stronger. We can logically assume that he has improved since part 1 and that he has become even stronger after absorbing Orochimaru.

He was said to be on par with Kakashi-- I agree. But, if Kabuto has grown so has Kaksahi and others. He absorbed Oro- so ? Oro was defeated by the Third, Naruto, Sasuke. Oro lost to Hanzo- who was killed by Pain.....Oro was a good villain, but he was not the strongest himself. For attacking Konoha he had to rally Sand with Sound.

He can go below the earth.

Nagato was playing with that earth.

No. It is a conclusion based on a logical process of thinking based on the abilities we have seen from these characters.

Your personal logic is just your opinion. That's all.

You can make it less abvious that you are not reading my posts. Whatever, i will just quote myself:We have only seen only one user with Rinnegan whereas we have seen countless Uchihas. So the possibilty of an Uchiha defeating a Rinnegan user is around 1% and decreases even more if we take into account that the user is around Naruto's level which means he is strong. On the other hand the possibilty of a Rinnegan user defeating an uchiha member is around 60% something that rises even more if we take into account that there were fodder Uchiha members. So, no i am quite right with my statement

You are talking statistics and still that argument is neither here nor there. I see Madara, the double MS user, working under Nagato's command and so did Itachi. I asked you to show me a page about sharingan defeating rinnegan, because you asked about the reverse. A direct fight is not shown in the manga, so you won't get an evidence of either. Period.

Kishi himself called rinnegan as the most powerful technique. We know that rinnegan originated all other jutsus. Rinnegan created the ninja world and so on...

Yeah, Madara was using the organisation for his own purpose and manipulating others but, that doesn't proves sharingan stronger than rinnegan . Just proves Tobi's cunningness. Cunningness is not a Sharingan blood limit thus cannot be useed in comaprison of eye techniques.

Even if Madara fought with Nagato one on one, it wouldn't be much different that Orochimaru beating down Sasuke during chunin exams. Nagato is a kid compared to Madara. That's not a about coampating eye technique.

Madara couldn't destroy Konoha on his own- He tried and ended up losing control ovewr Kyuubi. Madara with Rennigan - Now that's a real scary thought.

Village can be re-built.

What about villagers? Shinera tensi had potential to kill all of them. Tusnade saved them due to her own abilitis still she couldn't save them all.

[qote]Your post makes no sense. Elaborate, please.[/quote]

It made enough sense, if someobdy was not in denial. Madara with rinnegan wouldn't need anybody's help in destroying Konoha. He wouldn't have had problems like his own clan disobeying him. And could have easily blackmailed Hashirama to vacate the Hokage postion.

We don't know the whole truth yet. So let leave this topic alone untill we see what the manga shows.

Well, his talk with Sasuke and his comments afterwards showed quite of it. And it's really interesting that you speculate on every thing else and yet want to leave this one out.

No it has not. If Pain is affected by Tsukuyomi then because of the shared vision every body will be affected and Nagato dies.

Speculation - even when manga declared that rinnegan is the most powerful technique, you refuse to believe it based on your personal biases.

LOL. Madara has just survived because of his chakra. Also their chkara is even more sinister than this of Kuybis. By the way Sharingan user can control Kuybi. Kuybi>Nagato...

If you really have been reading the manga, you will know that in Naruto verse things don't work this simple ...

Temari>Shikamaru>Hidan doesn't translate into Temari>Hidan.

 

[peaceful]

Only one statement because i have to go because tomorrow i am having exams. I will answer to the other points tomorrow.

If you really have been reading the manga, you will know that in Naruto verse things don't work this simple ...

Temari>Shikamaru>Hidan doesn't translate into Temari>Hidan.
You said that. You are actually wrong. Becuase if Temari can use Shikamaru in a fight versus Hidan without losing her powers then yes it means that temari>shika shika>hidan then temari>hidan.