Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions
- Thread starter Avani
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Hey ppl and this is my first post also.
I voted kagami uchiha,coz i think tobi must be some1 who got the info about the first jinchuurika mito´s weakening of the seal when giving birth,since thats when the weakening of a feemale jinchuurika seal was first discovered and kushina was second jinchuurika. So far we know that elders knew that weakening of seal and kagami is same age as elders.
Tobi also knew the birth place and how to to get there without noticing,when he attacked minato,kushina and naruto.
What if kagami was there protecting mito as anbu when she was giving a birth and thats how he got the info bout the seal and the birth place etc. (just a thought)
Just before tobi pulled the 9tails out of kushina he said "do you have ANY idea how long i´ve waited for this moment" i dont know but for me it sounds that he has been waiting for some time.
As tobi stated that he is uchiha so i dont think that obito would have know about the seal weakening and i dont think izuna would have know that too because he was dead.(as manga stated) But if izuna or madara is tobi they might have got the info somehow tho.
I voted kagami uchiha,coz i think tobi must be some1 who got the info about the first jinchuurika mito´s weakening of the seal when giving birth,since thats when the weakening of a feemale jinchuurika seal was first discovered and kushina was second jinchuurika. So far we know that elders knew that weakening of seal and kagami is same age as elders.
Tobi also knew the birth place and how to to get there without noticing,when he attacked minato,kushina and naruto.
What if kagami was there protecting mito as anbu when she was giving a birth and thats how he got the info bout the seal and the birth place etc. (just a thought)
Just before tobi pulled the 9tails out of kushina he said "do you have ANY idea how long i´ve waited for this moment" i dont know but for me it sounds that he has been waiting for some time.
As tobi stated that he is uchiha so i dont think that obito would have know about the seal weakening and i dont think izuna would have know that too because he was dead.(as manga stated) But if izuna or madara is tobi they might have got the info somehow tho.
Ok, I finally have my theory on Tobi's identity.
Tobi IS Madara.
We've been trying to figure him out forced to the fact that since Edo Madara was revived he must've been someone else. We thought of anybody possible, trying to cope with all the possible explanations, guessing and guessing about any possible Uchiha or non-Uchiha.
Kishi's been trolling with us all the time.
Tobi IS Madara.
He never lied to anybody. All he said was true.
Madara awakened the Rinnegan short before dying. He read all the secrets on the Stone Momument. Who knows what secrets, aside the one of the So6P story, that monument reveals? With the EMS you discover the Rinnegan everyone thought being only a myth really exists and how to evolve into it (it's the logical step forward of a quest). What could have he read with the Rinnegan on the stone, who knows? How to prolong your life by transferring (if only a bit) of yourself (part of soul, body, who knows) into "something else"? With something else I mean Black Zetsu. Why don't we ever see black duplicates? Zetsu is not someone, is a something. Completely made out of the First DNA, perfectioned during the time into Zetsu, a useful servant.
Tobi is of course made (we don't know how much) of Zetsu's DNA.
Madara was pure genius, he must have planned how to survive "becoming" Tobi. Doing researchs, experiments, sharply plotting his come back.
Madara is somehow living inside this Tobi-body which is made up by Zetsu (First cells - to keep the Rinnegan activated and fuel it with the most power possible), has a Sharingan (probably not an EMS but we've never seen) specific for S/T jutsu, may have a third eye, sure he has now a Rinnegan instead of the Sharingan lost for Izanagi).
Madara was the best Uchiha ever. He could know all of the Uchiha ocular jutsus. He was able to awaken the Rinnegan. Legend.
Madara died and left what he could into this body he carefully prepared. He gave Nagato the Rinnegan since he wanted to test it and most of all he wanted to keep it safe and close (Nagato was from the Uzumaki clan, strong life, descendants of the First, he had to be the front leader behind Akatsuki). In Tobi's shape he couldn't use it properly. He only can use one jutsu per Sharingan (yes, per Sharingan...), he has lots of Sharingans collected in order to stock them and preventing anyone else from getting them, using if he needs them).
Madara was desperate to prolong his life since he managed to awaken the Rinnegan. He wanted to finally be superior to the First. He read on the stone with the Rinnegan he could become the Ten Tail's host.
He surely wants to complete his eye moon plan.
But Kabuto revived Edo-Madara specifically for a reason: threaten Tobi and gain hedge on him. Kabuto failed. Madara revived through the Edo and he's now free.
He's been dead since, how could he know how things turned out? He senses the Nine Tails and wants to to control it. His consciounsess and memory are not updated.
Madara died short before he started controlling the 4th Mizukage. He was still gathering the Tailed Beasts in order to become the Ten Tails Jinjuurichi. He died and left the rest of the plan to what he called Tobi. The name Tobi IS from Tobirama, because Madara planned for Tobi to use the Sharingan with S/T jutsu capabilities, that's what he only needed from "then" on. It's a mock of Tobirama's name, who was the master in that tecnique Madara surpassed. Minato clearly said it, he was able to defeat him only because Tobi proved itself not being strong enough for him within Tobi's body.
Since Madara has been revived, Tobi has no more meaning in calling himself Madara if the REAL one is around. So "he is NO ONE" from that moment on.
Tobi is worried about what Madara could do when he meets him, there will be TWO people wanting the same thing.
The Outer Path was meant to be used on Madara by Nagato when he was strong enough to revive him if the time has come for the Tailed Beasts to be gathered by Akatsuki. Then he could be alive again and finally become the Ten Tails' host and cast the infinite genjutsu.
But something went wrong: Nine-Tails and Eight-Tails not captured, Tobi had to start a war because he didn't manage to accomplish the mission. Nagato betrayed them and used it on Konoha's people. Ability gone.
Madara's going to be furious when he knows all these things. but hey, he's alive again and immortal! Perfect situation for completing his plan.
Tobi is worried because he's going to confront himself (the real Madara) at his best.
Kabuto's role is crucial since he revived Madara powered up.
There's one interesting thing I noticed about Kabuto. When he summons Edo-Tensei Madara, their first dialogue is to be reinterpreted: Madara was supposed to be brought back by Nagato via the Rinnegan. He discovers he's under Edo-Tensei and supposes only one person could have done it because the plan was not going well: Orochimaru. Kabuto says he's his "servant". He's referring to Orochimaru because he was the one working with Madara. They were looking through the same things (immortality, sharingans power). Orochimaru wanted Itachi's Sharingans (they were the best he could be capable of stealing) and has always been twisted and unpredictable.
Orochimaru will play a decisive role in this war. He may be lying when he says he's got no interest in this war but there's a chance he doesn't want to get involved with immortal Madara. He's definitely going to do something unpredictable, Orochimaru.
And yes, immortal Madara has a Curse Mark.
And yes, Sasuke wants to meet them: Tobi and Madara, after his little trip with Orochimaru.
Now, the final: if Tobi IS Madara, how come Tobi didn't know how Edo Tensei worked while Madara managed to release the contract? Was he fooling Kabuto? Why?
Orochimaru is somehow involved in it. If Tobi was created by Orochimaru AND Madara, Orochimaru must have been tricked Madara somehow.
Now, the conclusions: I tried to put all things together from the perspective that we've been looking too far from the real evidence. We've been under continuous deceptions from Kishi and it all started when we assumed Tobi was lying about being Madara.
I'm very confident that Orochimaru is deeply involved in it. I can't still be so sure about the kind of involvement, but in its simplicity I think the're still so many secrets to be revealed that goes in the direction I tried to trace with this post.
I know there are many uncertainties in my theory and some points should be more convincing but, in the end, I think Tobi IS Madara himself.
+rep to whoever will read this to the end.
Tobi IS Madara.
We've been trying to figure him out forced to the fact that since Edo Madara was revived he must've been someone else. We thought of anybody possible, trying to cope with all the possible explanations, guessing and guessing about any possible Uchiha or non-Uchiha.
Kishi's been trolling with us all the time.
Tobi IS Madara.
He never lied to anybody. All he said was true.
Madara awakened the Rinnegan short before dying. He read all the secrets on the Stone Momument. Who knows what secrets, aside the one of the So6P story, that monument reveals? With the EMS you discover the Rinnegan everyone thought being only a myth really exists and how to evolve into it (it's the logical step forward of a quest). What could have he read with the Rinnegan on the stone, who knows? How to prolong your life by transferring (if only a bit) of yourself (part of soul, body, who knows) into "something else"? With something else I mean Black Zetsu. Why don't we ever see black duplicates? Zetsu is not someone, is a something. Completely made out of the First DNA, perfectioned during the time into Zetsu, a useful servant.
Tobi is of course made (we don't know how much) of Zetsu's DNA.
Madara was pure genius, he must have planned how to survive "becoming" Tobi. Doing researchs, experiments, sharply plotting his come back.
Madara is somehow living inside this Tobi-body which is made up by Zetsu (First cells - to keep the Rinnegan activated and fuel it with the most power possible), has a Sharingan (probably not an EMS but we've never seen) specific for S/T jutsu, may have a third eye, sure he has now a Rinnegan instead of the Sharingan lost for Izanagi).
Madara was the best Uchiha ever. He could know all of the Uchiha ocular jutsus. He was able to awaken the Rinnegan. Legend.
Madara died and left what he could into this body he carefully prepared. He gave Nagato the Rinnegan since he wanted to test it and most of all he wanted to keep it safe and close (Nagato was from the Uzumaki clan, strong life, descendants of the First, he had to be the front leader behind Akatsuki). In Tobi's shape he couldn't use it properly. He only can use one jutsu per Sharingan (yes, per Sharingan...), he has lots of Sharingans collected in order to stock them and preventing anyone else from getting them, using if he needs them).
Madara was desperate to prolong his life since he managed to awaken the Rinnegan. He wanted to finally be superior to the First. He read on the stone with the Rinnegan he could become the Ten Tail's host.
He surely wants to complete his eye moon plan.
But Kabuto revived Edo-Madara specifically for a reason: threaten Tobi and gain hedge on him. Kabuto failed. Madara revived through the Edo and he's now free.
He's been dead since, how could he know how things turned out? He senses the Nine Tails and wants to to control it. His consciounsess and memory are not updated.
Madara died short before he started controlling the 4th Mizukage. He was still gathering the Tailed Beasts in order to become the Ten Tails Jinjuurichi. He died and left the rest of the plan to what he called Tobi. The name Tobi IS from Tobirama, because Madara planned for Tobi to use the Sharingan with S/T jutsu capabilities, that's what he only needed from "then" on. It's a mock of Tobirama's name, who was the master in that tecnique Madara surpassed. Minato clearly said it, he was able to defeat him only because Tobi proved itself not being strong enough for him within Tobi's body.
Since Madara has been revived, Tobi has no more meaning in calling himself Madara if the REAL one is around. So "he is NO ONE" from that moment on.
Tobi is worried about what Madara could do when he meets him, there will be TWO people wanting the same thing.
The Outer Path was meant to be used on Madara by Nagato when he was strong enough to revive him if the time has come for the Tailed Beasts to be gathered by Akatsuki. Then he could be alive again and finally become the Ten Tails' host and cast the infinite genjutsu.
But something went wrong: Nine-Tails and Eight-Tails not captured, Tobi had to start a war because he didn't manage to accomplish the mission. Nagato betrayed them and used it on Konoha's people. Ability gone.
Madara's going to be furious when he knows all these things. but hey, he's alive again and immortal! Perfect situation for completing his plan.
Tobi is worried because he's going to confront himself (the real Madara) at his best.
Kabuto's role is crucial since he revived Madara powered up.
There's one interesting thing I noticed about Kabuto. When he summons Edo-Tensei Madara, their first dialogue is to be reinterpreted: Madara was supposed to be brought back by Nagato via the Rinnegan. He discovers he's under Edo-Tensei and supposes only one person could have done it because the plan was not going well: Orochimaru. Kabuto says he's his "servant". He's referring to Orochimaru because he was the one working with Madara. They were looking through the same things (immortality, sharingans power). Orochimaru wanted Itachi's Sharingans (they were the best he could be capable of stealing) and has always been twisted and unpredictable.
Orochimaru will play a decisive role in this war. He may be lying when he says he's got no interest in this war but there's a chance he doesn't want to get involved with immortal Madara. He's definitely going to do something unpredictable, Orochimaru.
And yes, immortal Madara has a Curse Mark.
And yes, Sasuke wants to meet them: Tobi and Madara, after his little trip with Orochimaru.
Now, the final: if Tobi IS Madara, how come Tobi didn't know how Edo Tensei worked while Madara managed to release the contract? Was he fooling Kabuto? Why?
Orochimaru is somehow involved in it. If Tobi was created by Orochimaru AND Madara, Orochimaru must have been tricked Madara somehow.
Now, the conclusions: I tried to put all things together from the perspective that we've been looking too far from the real evidence. We've been under continuous deceptions from Kishi and it all started when we assumed Tobi was lying about being Madara.
I'm very confident that Orochimaru is deeply involved in it. I can't still be so sure about the kind of involvement, but in its simplicity I think the're still so many secrets to be revealed that goes in the direction I tried to trace with this post.
I know there are many uncertainties in my theory and some points should be more convincing but, in the end, I think Tobi IS Madara himself.
+rep to whoever will read this to the end.
By all means please taunt me if my Obito Theory is wrong, but I will surely do the same to you when I'm proven right
& How exactly has my theory changed, I've always said Tobi is Danzou & Obito, please enlighten me to where I "changed" anything....
& How exactly has my theory changed, I've always said Tobi is Danzou & Obito, please enlighten me to where I "changed" anything....
Bloodytaste
Member
well if we look at tobi know, the only rational Character as an Uchiha he could be is Obito.
Kishi just ****ed up the Timeline,
See Kakashi he should be 13/14 in this picture, wtf u grow so much in 1 year ? So Guys people who refere to Timeline, Age and Height to disprove it is obito...well then u have admit that this is not KAKASHI in this picture. Plz don't be ridiclous about looks...growth & age in Naruto is nothing to build a fact on. NEVER DO THIS CUZ ITS INSANE.
Tobi has a artifical Body, the only Uchiha who would need one and fits perfect in there is Obito. Obito would be 31 right know, an i think his Face is similar Zabuza, so this wrinkels are no clue of his age. Tobis Sharingan ability seems to be an improved Kamui...and that Kakashi sends Object into the same Dimension Tobi does would mean, that both got the same eye. And if Tobis right eye is his own, and guys Tobis Sharingan is his own one, because he never hides it means he has to be obito, if this eye is obitos eye. (or Obitos brother).
You Guys may think im crazy but i belive that Shisui was Obitos Younger Brother, and that Kagami could be their father~ If Tobi is Obito this would also explain why he was that much interestet in Shisuis Eye. I mean Tobi seems to have so many Sharingan eyes, why does he care about 1 Eye which has some Strong Genjutsu that only can be used once all 10 years? Its useful, but not that useful. So if Shisui would be his brother, he could get the EMS + an own Rinnegan. He would not need to tranplant anymore, but cuz it was estroyed he had to take nagatos/real madaras.~
Kishi just ****ed up the Timeline,
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See Kakashi he should be 13/14 in this picture, wtf u grow so much in 1 year ? So Guys people who refere to Timeline, Age and Height to disprove it is obito...well then u have admit that this is not KAKASHI in this picture. Plz don't be ridiclous about looks...growth & age in Naruto is nothing to build a fact on. NEVER DO THIS CUZ ITS INSANE.
Tobi has a artifical Body, the only Uchiha who would need one and fits perfect in there is Obito. Obito would be 31 right know, an i think his Face is similar Zabuza, so this wrinkels are no clue of his age. Tobis Sharingan ability seems to be an improved Kamui...and that Kakashi sends Object into the same Dimension Tobi does would mean, that both got the same eye. And if Tobis right eye is his own, and guys Tobis Sharingan is his own one, because he never hides it means he has to be obito, if this eye is obitos eye. (or Obitos brother).
You Guys may think im crazy but i belive that Shisui was Obitos Younger Brother, and that Kagami could be their father~ If Tobi is Obito this would also explain why he was that much interestet in Shisuis Eye. I mean Tobi seems to have so many Sharingan eyes, why does he care about 1 Eye which has some Strong Genjutsu that only can be used once all 10 years? Its useful, but not that useful. So if Shisui would be his brother, he could get the EMS + an own Rinnegan. He would not need to tranplant anymore, but cuz it was estroyed he had to take nagatos/real madaras.~
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NinJaGirl99
Member
I have no idea who Tobi is. Read a lot of theories and some make sense and some don't. Love the Ramen Guy theory. Just makes me LOL. I really do hope he is someone completely out of left field, someone not on anyone's list. Now that would be exciting.
I think I'm going to check characters who were born in Aug. Maybe that could be a clue? A reveal of Tobi's identity on or near his birth date would be interesting.
All I know is, who ever Tobi is his back story and reveal had better be wicked awesome or else I'm going to be disappointed. Looks like we will find out in the next few weeks.
I think I'm going to check characters who were born in Aug. Maybe that could be a clue? A reveal of Tobi's identity on or near his birth date would be interesting.
All I know is, who ever Tobi is his back story and reveal had better be wicked awesome or else I'm going to be disappointed. Looks like we will find out in the next few weeks.
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Just throwing in my two cents. Tobi is Kagami Uchiha. Kagami means mirror and as we can see in this weeks manga, that's the power that Tobi possesses. It's a mirror dimension. We all know tat everyone with the Sharigan has different powers. His Sharigan is always activated . Not because he's a non- Uchiha like kakashi. It's because he's always on his guard to become intangible if attacked. Look at this weeks manga. In a mirror dimension, everything is opposite. The kunai that was deflected was moving away from Tobi and towards Naruto until Kakashi used Kamui sending the kunai into the alternate dimension which changed its direction to head toward Tobi. Same with the rasengan. The rasengan went threw Tobi's wrist and left arm and was Kamui near his left shoulder( the manga is drawn two dimensional which is why it looked like it was heading for Tobi's face) . The rasengan hit Tobi on the opposite shoulder in the alternate dimension. He may be around danzo's age or younger. What do we know about him? Every few decades a genius is born to Uchiha. Look at Itachi. He was ANBU at 13. Maybe he took the name "Tobi " to honor the 2nd homage for saving his life. If he was young during the reign o the 2nd hokage, then the age is appropriate for all the things we know Tobi was involved in. Whatever happened to hm to change his idealogy will be revealed.
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LeafSpirit 20
Active member
Its obito, and kishi is giving us clues clear as water. The reason kakashi is in this fight and that thanks to him the tables are being turned to tobi, plus like i said, about two chapters ago, tobi told kakashi that "he still hasnt learned to keep his mouth shut" and kakashi had a startled expression as in him having an idea who tobi might be. The reason kakashi is in this fight and his contribution is having a great outcome is reason enough to bealive tobi is obito, kishi put kakashi in this fight for some touching moments with his old comrade later
My theory has never changed cheif... explain to me where you see a change in my thoery
& to all those who are trying to use "logic" like Kishi is from Japan, in Asia they are alot of short people, so Obito being tall at 15 is wrong, should STFU lol, dude how old is Naruto?, he's tall, so is Shikamaru, Chouji, Rock Lee, etc please stop trying to use real world logic because.................. THIS IS AN ANIME\MANGA!!!!
Also Kakashi most definitely realized it was Obito when he said there is only 1 jutsu at the end of the chapter. Meaning there using the same eye's doujutsu, & Kakashi knows who the other eye belongs to, Obito Uchiha
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Kagami Uchiha was no push over. During the 1st ninja war , the 1st and 2nd Hokage died. When Tobirama turned over the mantle of Hokage , he was on a mission with 6 children.we know that age does not matter in this manga( Sasuke and Naruto are OP) so why would the Hokage at the time be on a mission with six kids. The Hokage assigns the missions. Kigami may be a few years younger than the third. The third and te elders survived. Maybe Kagami felt that Madara's ideology about The Senju and Konaha were true. He was alive when Madara left. He was alive when the second ousted the Uchiha from government. The second then died and the third picked up his will of fire. Following his footsteps. As long as the elders live, he hides his face. He knows about Kakashi because Zetsu is the perfect spy. You have seen Zetsu report back to Tobi. Tobi was the head of Atsuki. They reported to pain who reported to hm?
Don't you think it is a little too obvious though. Kishi has never been forthcoming when it comes to foreshadowing/clues etc. The only thing that is obvious here is the big genjutsu Kishi has you guys under. You have to look beyond the obvious and think outside the box. Trust me he doesn't want any of us to know who he is until the big reveal. That's how you build suspense.
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No. Kakashi's Kumui can warp objects that he wills to be warped. Tobi has to touch the object to warp it. Unless of course it's himself hat he's warping. Kakashi is using MS and Tobi is 3 tomei Sharigan. I don't remember Kakashi warping anything with his 3 tomei Sharigan. The only similarity is the dimension being used.
LeafSpirit 20
Active member
I somehow agree with you, but kishi HAS given away some clues to upcoming plots clearly.. Like naruto being the son of the fourth hokage.. I could predict that since the original naruto(when they were kids) as naruto was always staring out of all the faces of the hokages in the mountain, he was always staring at the fourth hokages face while he said something emotional, that plus other clear giveaways.
I think that tobi and kakashi indeed were using the same dimension for warping things, but just because their jutsus are link to each other doesnt mean that im a pro kamui==tobi st==obito, my guess is that tobi can use his st jutsu without a sharingan like zetsu does, well i am purely assuming here that zetsu is also using st jutsu, but if it were so, then i think the only need for his sharingan is for link vision, if you come to think of it this way, tobis st jutsu is like a reverse of inos shintenshin, in tobis case, his body while being dematerialzed is inside a dimension while his mind is outside the real world, but for inos case, she is able to see things because she is using somebody elses body, going back to tobi, thats the thing that i cant really figured out thats why i came up with this idea that the use of his sharingan is to see things outside his dimension while being there by creating this ghost phenomena that it will appear as if when he dematerializes, your slipping through him but in reality, hes not there, so there you go, my guess is that tobi is not an uchiha, hes just using his fave sharingan to better his st jutsu, cmon if he the elder son - he can just murder anyone he liked to, he doesnt need help of madara, well if he is izuna - why keep your sharingan when you have the rinnegan, coz those are literally came from your own eyes, if he is obito - f$&@)$$@! But obito is better theory rather than tobi being kagami setsuna or fugaku f$&@! As i can see, the ramen guy is the best choice so far :sy:
SilverSlick
Banned
No, no, no, the timeline is fine. Kishi hasn't messed anything up regarding the timeline. You're just saying this because it screws the Obito theory over. Just look at my post I made earlier and it kills the Obito theory.
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