Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

[Edge]

Here we go again...

FYI for all Izuna theorists, one contradiction that I haven't seen discussed yet is in the latest chapter (594) where Tobi talks as if he knows Kakashi/Guy

Any ideas? In order for it to make sense, I'd say Tobi has been stalking/monitoring the village and its inhabitants for quite awhile, perhaps he infiltrated the village numerous times.

IMO Kishi threw that bit in there to throw people off (which he seems to enjoy) since it was vague.

Obviously if you're an Obito theorist it makes perfect sense but I'd like to see some backup arguments regarding this for Izuna.

 

[Randombody]

I love how people continue to debunk all Obito theories with "thats retarded" then counter with "It's probably [some guy who was mentioned once, pictured once, and has absolutely no development or characterization whatsoever]."

Kagami would be a million times dumber than Obito, and Obito is already pretty dumb.

Reasons it could be Kagami:
-He's had no development.
-He's 'shrouded in mystery' (see: the manga hasn't ever talked about him because he's totally unimportant)

Reasons it could be Obito:
-Similar jutsu to Kakashi, jutsu that nobody else in the entire Uchiha clan seems aware of, even Madara.
-It's been hinted for a long time, ie foreshadowing.
-Obito has some development, so he isn't a non-character like Kagami.
-Seems to know Kakashi based on comments about him being quick to open his mouth, especially since this is not a characteristic often associated with Kakashi and something only someone who has known him for a long time or knows him very well would know.
-Lots of tension between Tobi and Kakashi in the latest chapter.
-Some tension between Tobi and Guy, who likely would have disliked Obito when young due to the same Lee vs Sasuke reasons.
-On the same page there is a juxtaposition between Kakashi and Tobi's eyes, and the panel involving Kakashi seemingly has absolutely zero reason to be there other than to provide that parallel between them.
-Guy and Kakashi in general have served absolutely no storyline purpose to be in that fight, so it's very possible they're purely there for the sake of IDing Tobi.
-Obito is pretty much the only Uchiha in the entire manga to have exhibited a silly, goofy side.
-Similar names.
-Similar hair.

I'll repeat what I said in the last thread; the main reason people are discounting Obito is because of time discrepancies - this from a goddamn magical super-ninja specializing in time-space ninjutsu - and because it would be a bad twist, at which point they offer up even worse alternatives like Kagami and Shisui.

ps: my first guess is still Izuna via copious lying, second is still Danzou via Izanagi shenanigans, third is Obito via time-space shenanigans. So I'm not an Obito theorist or whatever, but it's definitely got much, MUCH more weight than Shisui or Kagami.

Ignore GAI part.

Link to why you should ignore :

You must be registered for see links

 

[~Dream~]

Random dude is Tobi

 

[unholyakatsuki]

Its not Izuna, he died blind. Even if he didnt die, he would have had to have new eyes implanted, and since he already had the mangekyo awaken, he wouldnt need to reawaken his new eyes. they would then become eternal mangekyo. Plus we have barely any info on him. Stats and jutsus dont match up. Just my opinion.

 

[unholyakatsuki]

Ignore GAI part.


Impossible. Obito was just a kid while Minato fought a full grown Tobi during the Nine Tail destruction of the leaf. How can you counter that rebuttle? That right there eliminates the possibility.

 

[Frikid]

I think tobi is izuna.

First of all i want to base my theory on what tobi have...

Tobi have :

1. A sharingan
2. A rinnegan
3. Senju DNA
4. Knowledge about uchiha shrine
5. Knowledge about So6p
6. Acquaintance with Madara
7. Gave Nagato the rinnegan.
8. Have some of zetsu fused with him.
9. A S/T technique better than the 4th.
10. Ability to use izanagi
11. Ability to control the 9 tails.
12. Ability to use hatred of a person to manipulate them
13. Ability to control perfect or near perfect jinchuriki.

Now I will use the above points to prove my theory.

First of all tobi have Acquaintance with Madara. So he has to be a person of around his age.He and madara shares the same plan , project tsukinomi.

There must be a question in your mind,
If tobi had the rinnegan , why he gave it to young nagato.

Answer : Nagato is an uzumaki ,he have powerful chakra.As weapons of the sage needs alot of chakra from the person using it, imagine how much chakra would sage's eyes will consume.A normal person cannot handle rinnegan but a uzumaki can surely do. Also i think nagato had a powerful chakra even in uzumakis just liek kushina thats why he was given the rinnegan.

I think that nagato was intentionally put in amegakure.
he lived in amegakure the main battlefield for the villages,
He was surely to lose many of his friends and also his family, and hence develop hatred.

We know tobi is master at using hatred of a person, so he used nagato.

It was all plan of tobi and madara. which can be proved, as when madara said ""so nagato survived... "
ït was there plan to put him into the battle ground , so he and his hatred towards the leaf could grow stronger


One more thing :ice:

Just tell me who can madara trust, to give him his master plan to bring peace to the world ?
Obviously his little bro Izuna.

Madara might helped izuna fake his death so that people could forget about izuna.If people know tobi is izuna , they will know about his weaknesses as well.

One more proof izuna is tobi is that he mastery in using S/T techs.
No, you may wonder how would that help us know who is tobi.
i will explain ..
We know Madara had an eternal rivalry with Hashirama and in the end he fought him to gain his powers. So,

The same way, i think izuna had an eternal rivalry with Tobirama and he fought him.. and he learned how Tobirama used his S/T and made his own S/T with it. He can easily do that because of his sharingan which helps him in learning moves.
Sounds interesting, ain't it ?

Now there must be yet another question in your mind, that if Izuna is Tobi, why did he helped itachi in Uchiha Masscare and why did he wanted to destory konoha ?

Answer :
Izuna loved his brother very much just like the relationship between itachi and sasuke.
So when he saw that madara got rejected as a cadidate for the hokage, and hashirama won, he felt bad for his bro and developed hatred again senjus and konoha.

Also madara was rejected by the Uchihas themselves, so seeing that, izuna also developed hatred against Uchiha clan.

:ice:

Also tobi = izuna fits every timeline.
Zetsu was created with help of senju DNA and senju DNA gives you long life.
Tobi have senju DNA so he also have a long life.

i have written alot for now, :ice: if you think there are any plot holes in my theory or you want to help in improving my theory, Just VM/PM me.
Any comments about my theory are welcome :ice:

 

[yetanotheruser]

Izuna still does not have a motive for world domination just because of his brother. According to the Naruto wiki, he was actually harmonic and devoted.

As already mentioned, it would be damn boring and easily guessable if it was him and that's exactly what Kishi wants.
I don't think Kishi lets us guessing who Tobi is for years just to reveal that he is yet another Uchiha who didn't even have a large impact on other characters and the story itself.

Guys, it's the elder son. He wants to come back with full force and Naruto will represent the younger son of SO6P by inheriting the will of fire of all descendants of the younger son and all hokages, and Naruto & Sasuke will break the curse of hatred which the elder son started.

 

[natzzz]

You must be registered for see images

first read clearly what madara says.1st he says that there is a reason behind all this(revival of himself and the war).then he says that it seems that things aren't going according to plan.meaning that he knows the plan and probably made the plan.then he says he was able to revive me like this.meaning that when madara was alive he planed evrything that is happening right now with someone else and the only one who he could plot a plan and can count to revive him would him would be izuna.even if madara lived 100 more years after fighting hashirama he has no chance of meeting with obito or shisui so its very clear that tobi is izuna.

note:i only use the sig pic cause it looks great.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Like others have mentioned, i'd hate to admit it but the latest chapter does seem to hint at Obito. Like the way Tobi talked to Kakashi and Guy?? It seems, like kishi just might do the dumbest thing that has, like ever happened to his manga to date by making Tobi Obito.

 

[vUmbrav]

I don't see any validity with the elder son of the sage theory. Out of all the stretches being made in theories this one is the biggest. I don't think he's Izuna either because there's no motive for hatred against the leaf. Saying he hates the leaf because he loves Madara is a fallacy. Just because they are brothers does not mean they share the same beliefs. You're once again jumping to conclusions and literally MAKING UP a reason for why he would do this. That's why it's so much of a stretch with this theory because you're filling in gaps that are unknown at this point with speculation.

If you all recall, the Uchihas stopped supporting Madara because they realized they didn't want to continue to fight with the leaf. Then Fugaku Uchiha decided to stage a coup against the leaf under Hiruzen's rule. If Izuna Uchiha was really Tobi and loved Madara and was upset that the clan betrayed him, then why would he help Itachi destroy them when he clearly had a perfect chance for revenge against the leaf? His first attempt failed with Kurama, and now he just passes up on this one? I don't buy it, especially considering he was willing to try this by himself at first.

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

I wasted my post on ramen guy, let's see how that goes ;-)

lol... me tooxd

 

[Sasuke2]

Izuna doesn't have a motive to hate Konoha? You guys sure don't read properly ... Senju were responsible for his blindness and death.

 

[yetanotheruser]

Izuna doesn't have a motive to hate Konoha? You guys sure don't read properly ... Senju were responsible for his blindness and death.

A shinobi who loves Konoha is willing to die for his village. And anyways, his blindness is still not an excuse for putting mankind in an infinite genjutsu.

 

[Phoenix Wright]

Kagami Uchiha could be possible now that i think about it.

That or Tobi's Split Personality like it's stated in the poll. Something similar to what Muu did.

 

[iSync]

No theory is my theory.

 

[YoungfacehovNVB]

Criteria For Tobi’s Identity

1) He is from the time of Hashirama Senju, and needs to be someone the Kyuubi would instantly recognize.

He is instantly recognized by the Kyuubi, who as far as we know has been sealed away in an Uzumaki jinchuuriki ever since the battle at the Valley of the End, where Uzumaki Mito sealed it into herself. There are no reports of the Kyuubi having broken free aside from in Yondaime’s time. This means that Tobi is someone the Kyuubi met during the time of Hashirama.

Given the way in which he speaks of past events, he has first-hand knowledge of and was emotionally investment in the Uchiha/Senju conflict.

Izuna fits: Uchiha Izuna was from this time period, and for obvious reasons, was personally and emotionally invested in fighting the Senju.

2) He has to have a credible reason for being pissed off at the Uchiha’s making peace with the Senju, and needs to be personally, emotionally invested in Uchiha Izuna’s eyes being given to Uchiha Madara.

“What kind of monster would hurt his beloved younger brother?! All I ever wanted was to protect the Uchiha clan! […] My younger brother accepted his role and willingly gave his eyes to me….[Tobi clenches his arms in anger]. What happened to the hatred we had for them?! What did my brother sacrifice his eyes for?!”

Izuna fits: He has ample reason to be pissed off at the Uchiha, even more so than Uchiha Madara; he sacrificed his eyes and possibly his life to give Madara the EMS in order to protect the Uchiha in their fight against the Senju, only to have them go and make peace? Why did he sacrifice his eyes and his life for them, then?!

3) He has a credible reason for claiming that the eyes Nagato had “were [his] to begin with.”

Izuna fits: If we accept the likelihood that Nagato’s eyes used to be Uchiha Madara’s (who is the only person we know which awakened the Rinnegan), then we also accept that Nagato’s eyes originally belonged to Uchiha Izuna’s, as we know that Uchiha Madara’s EMS eyes originally belonged to Izuna. Izuna fits this perfectly; no one else has a better credible reason to claim Nagato’s eyes “were his to begin with” than Izuna.

4) He needs to be a person whom Uchiha Madara will trust with his own life and rebirth.

Madara trusted Tobi to bring him back to life with Nagato’s powers. This is a major deal. Who would the great Uchiha Madara trust with his own life?

If we accept Madara’s statement that he awakened the Rinnegan shortly before his death, then this also means that he had only a very short period of time to transplant the Rinnegan into child Nagato. This means that he was 100%, utterly dependent on Tobi to carry out the ‘plan’ he mentioned to Kabuto, which included his resurrection.

Madara also gave Tobi access to the Hashirama-related power which he had nearly died for; an incredible show of trust.

Izuna fits: He is Uchiha Madara’s younger brother, and brotherly ties are a major focal point of this manga. We know that Rinnei Tensei can bring the dead back to life, and we know that Uchiha Madara gained the Rinnegan before dying. It would make sense if he used the Rinnegan to bring back Izuna.

Counter-Argument: Nagato wasn’t able to bring back Jiraiya because he had died too long ago! How could Madara bring back Izuna, who had died even longer ago!

Response: Uchiha Madara planned to use Nagato to bring himself back to life. If we accept that Madara died while Nagato was a child (which is necessary, as Nagato was given the Rinnegan as a child), and that Nagato was expected to ‘grow’ into his power, then this shows Madara thought it was fully possible for Nagato to resurrect him, despite years having passed. Which indicates that it is also fully possible for Madara to resurrect Izuna, despite years having passed.

5) He needs to have a credible grudge against Konoha, and has to have waited a long time for his vengeance against Konoha.
Spoken to Kushina: “Do you have any idea how long I’ve waited for this moment?!”

Izuna fits: His reason for a grudge against Konoha are obvious and profound; he gave his eyes to fight against the Senju who controlled the village, then eventually expelled his brother out from it. If we accept that he died or was maimed back in Hashirama’s days, then he has been waiting a long, long time indeed for his vengeance.

6) Tobi needs to be an Uchiha.

Although not Madara, Tobi still needs to have an Uchiha’s body; he uses the sharingan with expertise not seen outside a native Uchiha, and does not appear to have any problems with his body not being suited for the sharingan.

Izuna fits: Self-explanatory.

7) Tobi has to have a credible reason for being at least partly made out of Zetsu goo, even as far back as the fight with Yondaime.

Izuna somewhat fits: Tobi claims that Uchiha Izuna died in battle after losing his eyes. Knowing that Rinnei Tensi is capable of bringing the dead back, and also knowing that Zetsu goo is based off of Hashirama’s DNA, it’s credible that for Madara to bring Izuna back, he had to use Zetsu goo for whatever reason. Admittedly, more data is required here.

8) He has an old, wrinkly face, despite being partially made out of Zetsu goo.

Izuna fits: If we accept that Izuna was brought back to life with the Rinnegan while Nagato was a child, then at least 30+ years have passed, as we know that Nagato (being Jiraiya’s first disciple) should be as old or older than Minato. If Izuna was brought back in a partially ‘real’ body which aged, and if he had died in his 20’s, then he would now be in his 50’s or 60’s, explaining the wrinkly face. This is also supported by the fact that he indicates if Itachi knew some of his secrets, the Amaterasu would have killed him, indicating that at least part of him was non-Zetsu goo and thus vulnerable to being killed.

This is exactly my same theory. To add to it, the only person I feel best fit to parade around as Madara could be none other than his brother. He would know Madara the best and have as much knowledge as he would.
I see a lot of arguments saying theres proof that Izuna died, but the only one that told the story of Madara & Izuna was Izuna Tobi. He also lied about being Madara so we know how credible his words are.

On another note, I still think there's an absolute connection between Izuna-Kakashi-Obito. Now, agreeing that Tobi is Izuna, then you'd have to agree the sharingan that Tobi has aren't his (because he gave his to Madara). Tobi has a collection of Sharingan but there's a lot of attention to the one in his right eye socket. His S/T justu derives from that eye. Proof:

1. The design of his masks always revealing the right eye ONLY (until he got the rinnegan) hints the importance of that eye
2. That eye is so important to him that when in peril against Konan he ripped the other side of his mask off and sacrificed his left eye to use Izanagi. If it were just a regular sharingan, he could of easily used his right eye and just replaced it with another one from his collection.
3. Based on the sharingan evolution theory revealed by Madara, Tobi should be able to go from Madara's rinnegan to EMS but yet, he still kept the right eye and put ONE Rinnegan in the left socket.

That proves that THAT sharingan's ability is precious to him.

The only two people to demonstrate S/T jutsu abilities through using a SHARINGAN in the ENTIRE series are......you guessed it...TOBI and KAKASHI.
Tobi's in the right, Kakashi's in the left. If you think about the two eyes together, the have complimentary abilities and would work as a pair two one user.......Obito!
The difference is, Tobi, being a Uchiha and having Senju DNA would be more than capable of activating the jutsu without having to use MS while the amateur, non-uchiha Kakashi wouldn't be.

What I think was the true story of Madara & Izuna?:::
After taking his eye, Madara promised to retrieve him the senju dna and a new pair of eyes. He DIDN'T DIE.

another notable fact is when he went to retrieve the rinnegan from Konan he boldly stated that it was HIS eyes. This would be true on the grounds that Izuna gave his eyes to Madara, who then gave them to Nagato.

another thing, who would be able to fool Itachi to believing that he was Madara other than Izuna?


A few pieces missing: How did Madara actually die since we know now he didn't die in the battle against the 1st?

 

[vUmbrav]

Izuna doesn't have a motive to hate Konoha? You guys sure don't read properly ... Senju were responsible for his blindness and death.

Um, no Madara was responsible for his death by taking his eyes. Besides the clan eventually came to peace with the Senju... except Madara of course. But that does not mean that Izuna also hated the clan. And he is the only character that we know died for sure. Even Obito is unconcluded (It's not Obito btw).

 

[NamikazeNagato]

Madara and Izuna were the first to awaken the Mangekyo Sharingan.

They learned how to do this by reading the Stone Tablet which was left by the So6p using their three tomoe Sharingan (the location of the tablet was discovered by them). Afterwards, they became the two most powerful people in their clan, but then disaster struck!

Madara began going blind. In order to save his brother Izuna came up with an idea. He went back to the tablet and read it using his MS to see if he could get anything new. He discovered the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan and how to unlock it. He went back and told his brother about it and offered him his eyes.

Madara, shocked by his brother's sacrifice promised to repay him and got his eyes. With the EMS, he made Uchiha even more powerful. Eventually, Senju and Uchiha became one and formed Konoha. Madara challenged Hashirama for title of Kage, but his fellow clansmen were against it. Feeling betrayed he left the village, but not before reading the Stone Tablet with his EMS.

Some time later he comes back to Konoha with the Nine Tails. Hashirama "defeats" him and Madara "dies". Well, the whole purpose of the fight was to get Hashirama's DNA to implant it within himself and unlock the Rinnegan. He used Rinne Tensei to ressurect his brother. Surprised, Izuna asks how it's possible and Madara reveals everything that's happened so far including Uchiha's betrayl.

Now Izuna has no eyes but Madara reveals he obtained some before leaving the village by killing a member. He gives these eyes to Izuna and tells him about his "Eye of the Moon Plan". Close to dying, he also tells Izuna that all he should focus on is ressurecting the ten tails hense his new name, "Tobi" which translates to ten tails.

He also tells him to take his eyes and find an Uzumaki to give it to. Izuna ask why an Uzumaki in which Madara replies that Uzumaki Mito was able to become the host of the Nine Tails which means Uzumaki chakra is extremly versatile. Also, Madara tells him to ressurect him using the same technique he used on him. Tobi and agrees and the rest is history! How he manages to stay alive this long? Oh, well Madara harvested Senju DNA and created that giant Hashirama in which Zetsu was born. Also, Madara used his DNA to create Black Zetsu to aid and watch over Tobi (or that soon became it's purpose after Izuna was revived.)

 

[Beetle]

I voted split personality of Madara.. like a specialized Zetsu clone. Not the same person, just created in his image. Izuna is my next best guess.

 

[Sasuke2]

A shinobi who loves Konoha is willing to die for his village. And anyways, his blindness is still not an excuse for putting mankind in an infinite genjutsu.

What reason does Madara have? I_I the plan is pretty stupid if you ask me

Um, no Madara was responsible for his death by taking his eyes. Besides the clan eventually came to peace with the Senju... except Madara of course. But that does not mean that Izuna also hated the clan. And he is the only character that we know died for sure. Even Obito is unconcluded (It's not Obito btw).

No ... Izuna gave his eyes to Madara so he could fight and crush the Senju.
Izuna died fighting on a battlefield blind.
The clan didn't come to peace with Senju, they were just tired of fighting and oppressed Madara because they thought he took Izuna's eyes by force and wanted nothing but power. The clan forced Madara to sign a truce with Senju, rendering Izuna's sacrifice meaningless, spitting on his grave.