Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

[Shinweiss]

I never said he has time traveling. I mean, he could, but I highly doubt Kishi would sink that low. If it is Obito it's likely he got stuck in his little pocket dimension for some time, and that time flows differently there, see also: Tsukuyomi. Accidentally sucking himself into his void would explain the time difference, how he survived, and it would've given him plenty of alone time in agony; remember that Tsukuyomi's entire purpose is to screw up peoples' heads, effectively doing it to himself for a few years would certainly account for the difference in personality.

Obito got a fair bit of development in the Kakashi Gaiden. We got to actually see his character, he had some spotlight, he had some development. What has Kagami had? He was mentioned in some flashbacks. Obito's page in the naruto wiki is literally four times the size of Kagami's page. Shisui likewise had a few couple-page flashbacks that looked at him, from memory. Obito got the second-main character spot in a gaiden that lasted, what, 5 chapters? Something like that? That's a colossal amount more development than either of them so don't pretend Obito is just as unimportant, he's still a very minor character but there's minor then there's nonexistent. Kagami's an extra and Shisui exists purely in "Itachi did this" flashbacks.

The only reason Kagami has less things conflicting the explanation is because there's less things about him period. Remember that cat that Team 7 caught on one of their first missions? That's how important Kagami is, that's how much screen time he's had.

Plot holes can be explained by convenient Sharingan magic, but even the Sharingan can't make up for zero development. Though if Kishi tried to say that Kagami had seen plenty of spotlight but Izanami's power was to hypnotize readers I would honestly give him some credit for trying.

We're talking about someone (Uchihas) whose entire ability theme is hypnotism. You really can't take anything at face value, whether it's being crushed by boulders, talking to someone you might be, or getting stabbed through the chest. Given that just about ANYTHING could be explained by one of the Sharingan's existing abilities, let alone one we may be yet to see, reasons why someone COULD be Tobi hold far more weight than reasons they couldn't be.

"Obito can't be Tobi because we think he died, unlike Kagami who we think died."

 

[SasukeTheBijuu]

Has to be the older son

 

[Sasuke2]

Obito shouldn't even be an option ... those who follow the manga properly know that it's not possible solely for the timeline reason + logical reasons.
Future Sasuke is missing OP

 

[Deidera]

Everything Tobi said to Konan was a lie ,as it wasn't him who gave Nagato the renigaan
or helped Yahiko and Nagato form akatsuki,,it was the real Madara who did all those things and he Tobi knows about that What if Tobi has ever met Madara,maybe he heard his plan and wanted to do it himself and we all know Tobi knows a lot about people like Itachi ,Kakashi . Guy....etc
Also, isn't it strange that we've never seen his normal eye not sharingan? and when he used izanagi he eye closed like Danzo's many sharingans but when Itachi used a very similar tech.in izanami his eye lost it's light but didn't close,What could this mean???
All in all I've always thought that he's Kagami don't ask, just go read the 'omg Tobi' thread.

 

[alexu9696]

Criteria For Tobi’s Identity

1) He is from the time of Hashirama Senju, and needs to be someone the Kyuubi would instantly recognize.

He is instantly recognized by the Kyuubi, who as far as we know has been sealed away in an Uzumaki jinchuuriki ever since the battle at the Valley of the End, where Uzumaki Mito sealed it into herself. There are no reports of the Kyuubi having broken free aside from in Yondaime’s time. This means that Tobi is someone the Kyuubi met during the time of Hashirama.

Given the way in which he speaks of past events, he has first-hand knowledge of and was emotionally investment in the Uchiha/Senju conflict.

Izuna fits: Uchiha Izuna was from this time period, and for obvious reasons, was personally and emotionally invested in fighting the Senju.

2) He has to have a credible reason for being pissed off at the Uchiha’s making peace with the Senju, and needs to be personally, emotionally invested in Uchiha Izuna’s eyes being given to Uchiha Madara.

“What kind of monster would hurt his beloved younger brother?! All I ever wanted was to protect the Uchiha clan! […] My younger brother accepted his role and willingly gave his eyes to me….[Tobi clenches his arms in anger]. What happened to the hatred we had for them?! What did my brother sacrifice his eyes for?!”

Izuna fits: He has ample reason to be pissed off at the Uchiha, even more so than Uchiha Madara; he sacrificed his eyes and possibly his life to give Madara the EMS in order to protect the Uchiha in their fight against the Senju, only to have them go and make peace? Why did he sacrifice his eyes and his life for them, then?!

3) He has a credible reason for claiming that the eyes Nagato had “were [his] to begin with.”

Izuna fits: If we accept the likelihood that Nagato’s eyes used to be Uchiha Madara’s (who is the only person we know which awakened the Rinnegan), then we also accept that Nagato’s eyes originally belonged to Uchiha Izuna’s, as we know that Uchiha Madara’s EMS eyes originally belonged to Izuna. Izuna fits this perfectly; no one else has a better credible reason to claim Nagato’s eyes “were his to begin with” than Izuna.

4) He needs to be a person whom Uchiha Madara will trust with his own life and rebirth.

Madara trusted Tobi to bring him back to life with Nagato’s powers. This is a major deal. Who would the great Uchiha Madara trust with his own life?

If we accept Madara’s statement that he awakened the Rinnegan shortly before his death, then this also means that he had only a very short period of time to transplant the Rinnegan into child Nagato. This means that he was 100%, utterly dependent on Tobi to carry out the ‘plan’ he mentioned to Kabuto, which included his resurrection.

Madara also gave Tobi access to the Hashirama-related power which he had nearly died for; an incredible show of trust.

Izuna fits: He is Uchiha Madara’s younger brother, and brotherly ties are a major focal point of this manga. We know that Rinnei Tensei can bring the dead back to life, and we know that Uchiha Madara gained the Rinnegan before dying. It would make sense if he used the Rinnegan to bring back Izuna.

Counter-Argument: Nagato wasn’t able to bring back Jiraiya because he had died too long ago! How could Madara bring back Izuna, who had died even longer ago!

Response: Uchiha Madara planned to use Nagato to bring himself back to life. If we accept that Madara died while Nagato was a child (which is necessary, as Nagato was given the Rinnegan as a child), and that Nagato was expected to ‘grow’ into his power, then this shows Madara thought it was fully possible for Nagato to resurrect him, despite years having passed. Which indicates that it is also fully possible for Madara to resurrect Izuna, despite years having passed.

5) He needs to have a credible grudge against Konoha, and has to have waited a long time for his vengeance against Konoha.
Spoken to Kushina: “Do you have any idea how long I’ve waited for this moment?!”

Izuna fits: His reason for a grudge against Konoha are obvious and profound; he gave his eyes to fight against the Senju who controlled the village, then eventually expelled his brother out from it. If we accept that he died or was maimed back in Hashirama’s days, then he has been waiting a long, long time indeed for his vengeance.

6) Tobi needs to be an Uchiha.

Although not Madara, Tobi still needs to have an Uchiha’s body; he uses the sharingan with expertise not seen outside a native Uchiha, and does not appear to have any problems with his body not being suited for the sharingan.

Izuna fits: Self-explanatory.

7) Tobi has to have a credible reason for being at least partly made out of Zetsu goo, even as far back as the fight with Yondaime.

Izuna somewhat fits: Tobi claims that Uchiha Izuna died in battle after losing his eyes. Knowing that Rinnei Tensi is capable of bringing the dead back, and also knowing that Zetsu goo is based off of Hashirama’s DNA, it’s credible that for Madara to bring Izuna back, he had to use Zetsu goo for whatever reason. Admittedly, more data is required here.

8) He has an old, wrinkly face, despite being partially made out of Zetsu goo.

Izuna fits: If we accept that Izuna was brought back to life with the Rinnegan while Nagato was a child, then at least 30+ years have passed, as we know that Nagato (being Jiraiya’s first disciple) should be as old or older than Minato. If Izuna was brought back in a partially ‘real’ body which aged, and if he had died in his 20’s, then he would now be in his 50’s or 60’s, explaining the wrinkly face. This is also supported by the fact that he indicates if Itachi knew some of his secrets, the Amaterasu would have killed him, indicating that at least part of him was non-Zetsu goo and thus vulnerable to being killed.

 

[alexu9696]

Tobi Is Izuna Uchiha come all the ones that suport this theory vote it !!

 

[Raffnir]

Hiho,

I think it could be Obito. Because of the similar jutsu to Kakashi. And we dont know how Kakashi got his mangeyko sharingan. (or maybe its just me who dont know??)
I think, when Tobi = Obito, they have the same Sharingan and when Tobi was able to get his mangeyko sharingan, it auto transformed Kakashis Sharingan into the mangeyko.
________________________________________

Its also possible for me, that its someone like Nagato who can use dead bodys. And Tobi is just a dead Body controled by this Guy we dont know. But when i read this now, i think its stupid ^^. Nvm

Sry for my bad english. :/

 

[Shinweiss]

Again Izuna is still my primary vote for pretty much all the above reasons. Tobi does also like to consider himself Madara, and he doesn't like to lie. Tobi likes to manipulate using shades of truth. It's possible Izuna considers himself and Madara linked, or even the same person (similar to how he wants to become one with everyone using Mugen Tsukuyomi) after he gave his eyes/life for him.

Though I would contest the first point. Has Kurama ever been seen acknowledging that he knows current-Tobi directly? He didn't mention anything when Naruto first fought with Tobi or when they fought at the Summit from memory. A link would be appreciated. As far as I remember he only acknowledged knowing Minato-era Tobi which we still aren't 100% sure are the same person.

Yes, it would be crazy coincidence for them to have such similar abilities, but then given what Madara has pulled off so far there's really not any ability beyond his potential; it could have been him at the time.

I just think Obito is still a possibility and a far more valid one than Kagami, which is why I defend the point. It seems so silly to throw such a big possibility off the table.

 

[vUmbrav]

@Alexu Valid theory, very credible, I like it.

 

[Deidera]

The only thing the Zetsu goo helps is the Obito theory,which I don't like....

 

[15RC]

Tobi will be revealed as Izuna, Madara's younger brother. Izuna died in battle and revived many years later by Madara once he awakened the Rinnegan. Izuna took on the name Madara after Madara had died. The Eye of the Moon Plan is their version of bringing peace to the world. If the plan succeeds, the name Madara Uchiha will be in the history books as the one who brought peace to the world.

 

[lorul2]

Obito with some Zetsu added in.

 

[anthonyfitz]

only time will tell but i think its defiantly a uchiha we've seen before

 

[Jonesy161]

Tobi just said in the newest chapter to Kakashi that there is no point in removing his mask as Kakashi doesn't remember faces. Whoever Tobi actually is, Kakashi knew him on a personal level at one point in time.

So I think it turned back around to Kakashi's childhood team mates and/or friends. No idea who it may be though...

 

[Ikari Shinji Kun]

Tobi just said in the newest chapter to Kakashi that there is no point in removing his mask as Kakashi doesn't remember faces. Whoever Tobi actually is, Kakashi knew him on a personal level at one point in time.

So I think it turned back around to Kakashi's childhood team mates and/or friends. No idea who it may be though...

I don't like admitting it, but you're right. He also said his plan is to create peace. If the plot does twist and Tobi is Obito (please for the love of god I hope I'm wrong) His motive would be to create peace, because he would've seen friends or loved ones die in the war before he died.

 

[Codex]

I don't like admitting it, but you're right. He also said his plan is to create peace. If the plot does twist and Tobi is Obito (please for the love of god I hope I'm wrong) His motive would be to create peace, because he would've seen friends or loved ones die in the war before he died.

I know the feeling; Obito is the first the thing that popped in my head while reading the most recent chapter, and I damn near rage-quit. Kishi wouldn't do that, right? Right? Anymore, I just don't know. I get the feeling he doesn't care about continuity, and is just trying to throw in as many twists as possible. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Animaster21]

Tobi just said in the newest chapter to Kakashi that there is no point in removing his mask as Kakashi doesn't remember faces. Whoever Tobi actually is, Kakashi knew him on a personal level at one point in time.

So I think it turned back around to Kakashi's childhood team mates and/or friends. No idea who it may be though...

I'm pretty sure Tobi was talking to Guy when he said that, referring to Kisame. As I recall, Guy asked Tobi who he was and Tobi said the thing about not remembering faces.

Anyway, I'm tossing up between Kagami and Izuna, but leaning towards Izuna. All the reasons mentioned so far have made sense, and Obito would literally cause most of the fandom to throw one massive worldwide hissy-fit.
BUT...Here's a strange theory; what if Kishi never tells us who Tobi is? What if he just dies and dissolves into Zetsu goo and we never get to find out who he is? In that case, every member of the fandom would probably throw a worldwide hissy-fit, lol.

 

[aema83]

We still know so little about Tobi, even if what we got can lead us to many theories and assumptions.
Anyway, he's not Obito, he's not Kagami. Get over with it.
The only two possible leads are Tobi being someone so "ancient" and powerful (the elder son of So6P = Rinnegan given to Nagato) or Izuna Uchiha, which could be due to the "strong bonds" cliché recurring so many times in the manga.
He must be someone at least as powerful as Madara, c'mon. He has a massive amount of chakra and abilities, he's controlling the Tailed Beasts all at once, he's using Rinnegan's abilities like he's always been capable of. He's not just space-time jutsu.

Don't expecting to see Tobi's ID revealed soon, anyway...

BTW, I voted "The ramen guy". It must be him, in the end.

 

[aema83]

Tobi just said in the newest chapter to Kakashi that there is no point in removing his mask as Kakashi doesn't remember faces. Whoever Tobi actually is, Kakashi knew him on a personal level at one point in time.

So I think it turned back around to Kakashi's childhood team mates and/or friends. No idea who it may be though...

Read carefully.
Tobi's referring to Guy.
Plus, in chapter 567, while fighting the Tailed Beasts and Tobi, Guy shouts at Kakashi that he doesn't remember people's faces. Tobi's not deaf, then...
And it's not Kakashi knowing Tobi, but the contrary. Tobi has a deep understanding of his enemies, plus all the intel he gathered from former Akatsuki members.
Kishi likes to toy with distracted readers so that you fall for it. That's just deception.

 

[Animated]

A copycat whose rolemodel is Madara.
I don't seem to take those theories seriously any more.. so I DON'T CARE WHO TOBI IS..