Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

Who do you think Tobi is?

  • Jubbi

    Votes: 5 0.6%
  • Sage of Six Paths O.O

    Votes: 14 1.6%
  • Izuna uchiha

    Votes: 170 19.6%
  • Kagami uchiha

    Votes: 97 11.2%
  • Obito Uchiha

    Votes: 177 20.4%
  • Fugaku Uchiha

    Votes: 9 1.0%
  • Shisui Uchiha

    Votes: 17 2.0%
  • Setsuna Uchiha

    Votes: 4 0.5%
  • Madara's Son

    Votes: 12 1.4%
  • Obito's father

    Votes: 18 2.1%
  • Madara's split personality (created before original body died.)

    Votes: 39 4.5%
  • A copycat whose rolemodel is Madara.

    Votes: 7 0.8%
  • An unknown Uchiha

    Votes: 21 2.4%
  • Real Madara in Zetsu body

    Votes: 5 0.6%
  • Some one from Madara's time ( can't decide though)

    Votes: 10 1.2%
  • Elder son of Sage of Sixth Path

    Votes: 44 5.1%
  • Zetsu

    Votes: 21 2.4%
  • First Edo tensie

    Votes: 2 0.2%
  • Tobirama

    Votes: 8 0.9%
  • Another Senju

    Votes: 4 0.5%
  • An Uzumaki

    Votes: 10 1.2%
  • Tobi (No one we know)

    Votes: 31 3.6%
  • The ramen guy

    Votes: 71 8.2%
  • Someone other than these.

    Votes: 23 2.7%
  • I am done. No theory. ( Not anymore at least.)

    Votes: 48 5.5%

  • Total voters
    867
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Dutcheries

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I have been reading this thread since last Sunday and what occurred to me is.

1. Lots of people dont have discussions with each other. Is more arguingwho tobi is and then get annoyed or even pissed-off.

2. There are allot of different theories (some based on a few assumptions and other on facts and logic.

3 What I also find is that the most Tobi=Obito theories are based on very little Manga facts, timeline facts,logic and what tobi said in the manga.

For example: A member does a really great job to type a massive explanation about that tobi = izuna. And the Obito theorists reply ''Well tobi lies about everything, or He doesn't want naruto-verse to know that he is Obito and the so called proof that Tobi = Obito is that he has is eye and that He knows mutch about Kakashi etc.''

But when a Tobi=Obito theorist wants to proof that he is Obito. The post is very small, Few facts, 1.000.000 assumptions. And lots of rage, anger, and denial and then tobi = Izuna Theorists reply with another Big explanation.

And for the sake of argue, I dont have a theory of my one, I like to read other people's theory and follow the ones who makes the most sense.

I think when it comes to reading others people theories you most read it objectively. And when it comes to making one you most go far back into the story and take out the facts as far as we know, fill in the plot-holes with plausible explanation what fitts in the naruto-verse story. Timelines are a big help.

Dont be hating because I dont hate either. When I read a very stupid theory I wont even comment on that members Theory. Only in general.
 
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Millosh

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Izuna. Safest bet. Best motives, fits the knowledge. Second bet would be the disappointed So6p.

Other potentials due to them not being revived: Obito, So6p, Kagami, Uchiha ancestor and maybe Shisui. They are all belived dead but haven't been shown to have been revived. Apart from a completely new character and/or Madara's split persona, I don't think any other are possible. Whatever and whoever he is, he must be connected to Zetsu. I am still puzzled by the black half more than the white one. Also, IF he knows who Tobi is, Orochimaru's experiments could have played some part in the mystery.

I still believe it's Izuna. But regardless, it is obvious Kishi is doing this mainly to hype his work up and raise the interest. I hope he gives a good reason for him wearing that mask (those masks)....apart from ****ing with us. There are NO characters to whom Naruto would react as "WTF?! IT'S YOU!!!!" upon seeing the face behind the mask.
 

sageadvice

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Re: *Spoiler* Tobi statement

Well tobi definitly isn't obito but I guess he could be someone close you never know with Kishi
yes, i'm guessing setsuna is obito's dad. again, if you have rinnegan, why keep one of your rinnegan as a sharingan? it's because he's unwilling to ever part with that sharingan as it's his son's.

Tobi is oppressive tyrant driven by grief over a moment in time he cannot erase. From Narutopedia:

Setsuna can mean "moment" or "instant" (刹那), or "painful", "trying" or "oppressive" (as a shorter version of 切ない, setsunai).

and, yes, i recognize that my point about it being his dad in no way confirms that his dad is setsuna, but i think, besides the name coincidence, setsuna makes sense timewise. i've mentioned physical similarities and the dispositional similarities between setsuna and tobi before, and i have also pointed out that, curiously, the only seemingly unimportant and pointless (aka fodder) part of tobi's history of konoha was setsuna's failed effort to get a coup of konoha started, but i also want to mention that setsuna is easily old enough to be obito's dad and madara's pupil.

the only other realistic options i can see are kagami, rin, or some sort of frankensteinian zetsu construct with no other identity. of those options, the construct option would be a total troll and would ruin the series, so i don't think it could be that. I suppose it's also remotely possible it's the ichiraku guy.

so, my ranking for tobi's identity goes:

1. Setsuna
2. Kagami
3. Rin
4. Zetsu Construct
5. Ichiraku Guy

obito wasn't old enough to do most of what tobi is responsible for, and he has no motive. izuna is long dead, as the memories tobi offered us as he told us konoha's history show him in a coffin. so, he seems to have personal knowledge of his death, and, while tobi is a liar, i doubt the visuals from that chapter representing our inside look at his memories were lies. the uchiha elder son is as dead as the senju/uzumaki younger son. and the so6p wouldn't have divvied up the daidarabotchi if he wasn't sure he was dying. last, the idea that tobi is actually a conspiracy of people would mean that this manga is going to need to run another five years to get that all figured out, and we know it's not going that long. that possibility is just too not neat and tidy a possibility for it to give us closure within two years.
 

CudaJoe

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Okay, I will create a Obito STORY for you guys and see if this fits for a motive.

In regards to Obito being crushed by the rock.
At this point we know Obito unlocks his sharingan. Tobi is able to phase in and out of objects (by moving parts of himself to another dimension) only possessing the sharingan, its not an MS technique. You never see his eye change to MS when he does this.

Enters Obito, Rin, kakashi and the boulder: Obito can not feel the right side of his body as he lies under rock, at this point he is unaware of his sharingans abilities and he subconciously sent that part of his body to the other dimension to protect himself. He cant feel the right side of his body because it isnt there anymore and this happens to be part of the ability to sustain his life while dodging "attacks". The last thing he asks of Kakashi is to protect Rin from now on. Rin and Kakashi leave and Obito lies there for a day before he realizes he's not dying yet. It doesnt make sense. He tries to stand up and realizes his body phases right through the boulder!!!!.
At this point he decides not to go back to Konoha as he knows the person he loves, loves Kakashi and he doesnt want to get in the way, I mean why not, right? They think he's dead and it might be better off that way for Rin to move on so he feels in his heart, but he continues to watch from afar. he continues to master his ninjitsu ability, mainly his sharingan.



In regards to the comment about Kakashi standing in front of the grave from Tobi.

Fast forward to the Ninja war, the battle place is the bridge. Kakashi and Rin are stopping the invading Ninja army at the bridge, Obito does not participate in this war but is still watching after his true love, Rin. A tactic by the invading Ninja army is used to decieve Kakashi and launch an incoming fatal assault to Rin. Obito sees this attack all too clearly and is confindent that Kakashi also sees it coming and decides not to interfere. He was wrong. He sees Rin ran through and killed right before him. Kakashi is in a state of shock followed by a state of Rage!!!

Kakashi goes on a vengeful assault, basically holding off the invading ninja army by himself.
In the meantime, Obito goes through a mental breakdown. He starts wondering what if would the outcome have been if he interfered and revealed that he was alive to Rin. That she would have been happy to see him and glad he saved her. He starts to grow alot of resentment and anger to Kakashi, to the leaf for that fact for not reinforcing this obvious weakness in the bridge. He feels in his heart by letting Rin die, he in fact killed her himself...


In regards to the comment made by Kakashi and Tobi with reference to the Battle at the Bridge :).

He unlocks his MS ability. He unknowingling transports himself to the other dimension and reappears back on the other side of the bridge behind enemy lines while kakashi hold them off. In his own fit of rage, Obito slays each and every ninja that he comes across. It is literally a one sided fight and every attack passes through him without harming him, he ends up transporting a small group of the ninjas to the alternate reality where he fights them on his own turf. The leader of the invading army and kakashi both witness this. Fear is struck into the invading ninja army as they havent a clue where their commrades went. This technique was the first of its kind witnessed in such a massive exodus of ninja into the void.

From Kakashi's perspective he saw an unknown fighter battling multiple ninja and witnessed adept skills in dodging on going attacks as if they passed right through him, from his perspective and the location he was, he could only see shadow fighting. When he was done his the small force at the bridge he moved forward to see who his "ally" was but he only found some bodies. Obito had already phased back out of the fight and back to the shadows. Kakashi at this point has no idea who it was and decides to keep it a secret. Kakashi becomes the Hero of the leaf. At this point Obito decides he is going to get back at the Leaf, for letting "her die". This includes all members of the leaf including uchiha, whom he never really had a care for since they didnt look at him as an Uchiha.

In regards to, "How did Nagato get the Rinnegan?!?!? Obito was too young to be the giver of the eyes."

During this time period Obito meets another with the same ideals. This other character happens to be in possession of a Sharingan as well, he was older Uchiha whom captured the Hidden mists kage and provided Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato during the war back in the day. This man wore a mask (white mask much like Leaf special unit but with one eye hole) and told him of a small group he needs him to become involved with. The masked man already has some involvement with this group, the Akatski. As he was the one who originally forced its developement from the shadows. In order for Obito to enter into the Atkatski and pull it off as replacing the masked mans involvement (at this point names were not shared between the masked man and Nagato's group). Why does the mask man need his help? well because he's getting really old, he is in fact Madara Uchiha whom everyone thought had died during the battle with hashirama. Obito is suppose to carry on the character of the masked man while carrying out Madara's plan (to revive Madara in the near future). At this point Obito knows about the Rinnegan and its abilities.

Tobi is born and the Akatski is manipulated from within. Ideals become twisted to follow Tobi's plan. Knowing how important information is, Tobi changes his character and role in the Akatski so some enemies never catch on to who he is and what he is, a.k.a Orochimaru who's looking to get a hold of a Sharingan. Last thing Tobi wants is to become a target from another treacherous Akatski member. As Tobi's ability is unheard of in the Ninja world, Tobi enters the Leaf village and overhears a rumor in the Uchiha that their maybe a Coup de Tat to take over the Leaf. This is golden information. He goes ahead and "accidentally reveals" the plan to leaf ninja either within the village or out in the field and then he watches... You know the rest.



This is what I feel might be a good reason why Obito CAN be Tobi. There it is, an Obito Theory that isnt short, and shares enough reasons and ideas to possibly make it stick :p



So if Madara gave his eyes to Nagato, what did he control the mist kage with???

Madara was a collector of the sharingans at the time, he had already had his eyes transplanted in order to give the Rinnegan to Nagato. The collection continues when Obito Tobi collects the assortment from other various uchiha including the Uchiha massacre. Im sure some of the Uchiha had their sharingan out in full flare, not all were killed in their sleep.



What about Zetsu? I havent a clue. lol. He's more unknown than Tobi is at this point. He seems to be a henchman for "the Tobi's / masked men". Its possible that he was even around since Madara.
We will save ideas about Zetsu for the Zetsu Theories Threads. This is an Obito Theory Thread.
Of course madara did die, could be from natural causes, or his old battle wounds. He was weakened after his fight Im sure.
 
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supino

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The way I see it, Madara is dead, officially dead since he's been edo tensei'd.
If madara awakened the Rinnegan just before his death, then as we know his body would have been collected by Konoha, at at least by the Uchiha clan as is tradition in the ninja world.
true any way you see it... and not true. it was stated in the manga that he most likely survived the battle and died some time later. when Madara himself admitted that he got the rinnegan before he died it pretty much verified Kabuto's hypothesis.

It doesnt matter whether the plan was to revive Madara with "Rinne Tensei" or not because that plan failed. It doesn't make any sense to implant the Rinnegan into a child who can't use their full powers when there are available adults to implant them into. I don't believe Izuna really died, or if he did he was raised from the dead by Madara once he unlocked the Rinnegan.
wait, that the plan to bring back Madara via rinne tensei failed is one thing, and using rinne tensei for that purpose is another and reveals the original intentions of the perpetrator/-s.

implanting the rinnegan in a child does make sense given the chakra required, Nagato as an Uzumaki had the quality and quantity required to use the rinnegan. if even your average sharingan consumes chakra like a hungry piranha and in order to better control it even Senju DNA is needed, just think what it would take to control the rinnegan.

Madara confirmed Izuna's death! and even if he could use the rinne tensei to bring him back Nagato has already explained that there is a time limit during which the dead person can be revived. this strongly suggests that Madara would not be able to bring back his brother as Izuna died years, if not decades, before Madara awoke the Rinnegan. Unless, Madara found a way to preserve his brother's body in a condition of limbo.

Its a fact that Tobi/Izuna has a large collection of sharingan, which I believe was part of his motive to have the Uchiha killed off, along with revenge. Since Tobi has the weird zetsu body thing, that leads me to believe he's survived beyond Hashirama's time which is why he's old. Rinne Tensei brings people back as they were, full flesh and blood.
the edo tensei brings people back in the state they were when they died. Madara was brought back different and Kabuto explained that.

IF Madara revived Izuna he would have had to live many years to see Hashirama die and obtain his DNA. Remember Orochimaru used to be a member of Akatsuki and implanted Senju DNA in Danzo before he ever left ROOT to join Akatsuki.
actually we do not know that... both Danzou and Orochimaru could have made contact any other time. it's likely they could have met after the Uchiha massacre. but ok, i see your point here.
 

Ichigo9000

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I think Tobi will be revealed as Izuna.
My only thing to back up this claim is that Izuna lost both eyes so it would have been easy to transplant Obito's Sharingan into one eye and a normal sharingan into the other.
I don't mind if I'm wrong I just enjoy reading the manga and this is a theroy I didn't really put much thought into.
 

Helloguy

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I'm still going with a mash up of Obito zetsu and someone else know

Then around the fight with the fourth it wasn't the tobi we know now but zetsu and someone else
 

MattyB

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I think Tobi has something to do with Orochimaru, I think Orochimaru will tell Sasuke who Tobi is at around the same time as Naruto finds out.

Why? I mean it's just a theory but there are three things we know about Orochimaru are that 1. He experimented with the 1st's DNA 2. He waits until his victims are at their weakest and then messes with their minds and 3. He always wanted a Sharingan.

I also believe both Orochimaru is linked to Zetsu in some way. We have seen that some of Tobi's skin is white and possesses some of the characteristics of White Zetsu. I propose that, sometime after Kakashi left Obito, Orochimaru approached him and introduced the Zetsu 'cells' or whatever into Obito (This may have happened with or without Oro's influence, given we don't know much about either half of Zetsu we don't know much about his plans, which may involve the sharingan. The only other point that ties into this is that BZetsu is in some way linked with the forest and iirc Obito died in a forest or something, maybe). I think this somewhat explains how the Sharingan that was thought to have been crushed was able to survive/regenerate as well as the whole zetsu-white-arm-goopy thing.

I also think this battle will reveal Kakashi's MS story. I'm pretty sure it's been revealed that you don't actually need to kill your best friend to unlock it, but rather go through something of a similar emotional magnitude. I think Tobi/Obito/Zetsu killed Rin and unlocked his MS, and Kakashi was somehow involved resulting in him unlocking his own MS due to Rin's death. This would also explain why they have similar but 'opposite' powers much like Izanami/Izanagi and Ameterasu(sun)/Tsukuyomi(sp? moon).

All just theories, but I reckon that, plot holes notwithstanding, Tobi's story will be similar to this.
 
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DrukenT

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I'm hoping, with this last chapter
I'm the type who hates tobi is obito
but everything points to the more I do not think it's a trap
I have reviewed the chapter where it all begins 239 to 244
dialogues, all agree

obito somehow managed to survive, saying that your right side is completely crushed
is false, that there is obito's right eye
and I'm pretty sure it helped orochimaru
he knows the whole truth
obito was rebuilt with the same element as zetsus

I really have lost interest in this, if obito just going to stop reading the manga, so much waiting for this...

only have to wait the coming weeks, kishimoto said tobi's identity be revealed in coming weeks

on the other hand, seeing the good side, obito kakashi had to meet again somehow, had outstanding bills ... if possible explain what happened to the rim.

and I'm tired of thinking, but I really
obito if not, will Izuna

madara known, orochimaru, perhaps the essence of Izuna was placed in a container made for him. that tobi, madara really knows all about.

orochimaru as I know the whole truth, just waiting the next chapter, for these 2 I'm going

Izuna
Obito

kagami
I do not think it makes no sense, is more likely to be obito, theory at least that Kagami is obito father and brother of Shisui is true, then I'm going by kagami

just wait ...
 

natssuu

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Its Obito or someone else that Kakashi knows. Can't be Izuna or anyone listed on the poll.

Kakashi knows who it is.
Why it has to be someone that Kakashi knows? Also Tobi must have been grown man during 2nd great ninja war. That's the time when Madara died, so Tobi is at least as old as the sannins.
 

Helloguy

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Who 's to say that he wasn't another person when he fought the fourth

or maybe just maybe an altered confused and deranged Obito/zetsu who went all crazy after something happened
 
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