[Game] Final Fantasy XV: Return of the True King! #38

[Sagebee]

Do you read anything or just play in a fanfic version of the game where peoples posts say whatever you want them to say as opposed to what they actually say?

1. Michelle - Probably Town
2. Poison - [Ravus Nox Flueret]
3. Toujo - Town*
4. Rej - [Arden Izunia]
5. SoulKiller - [Noctis Lucis Caelum]
6. Ultraviolet - Probably Town, but scrutinise if I'm janitored
7. T-Pein - Lean scum
8. Grammaton - Lean Town
9. Thestatusquo - Lean Scum, but mostly just apathetic
10. NatsuDragneel123 - AWOL, lean scum
11. KekW - Probably Town
12. Aether9 - Lean Scum
13. Alice in Noodleland - AWOL, lean Scum
14. Sagebee - Lean Town, sadly
15. XTMF - Probably Town

T-Pein
TSQ
Natsu
Aether
Alice

All things being well, and my flip revealing my alignment, I feel good about two scum in here. My choice would be Aether/Alice, then Natsu, then T-Pein, then TSQ.

Ratchet why do you keep bringing up being janitored?

Not only are you probably getting lynched today but you're unlikely to ever be a NK

I don't get why you just don't full claim now

I really should stop entertaining you because you're just scum but it is curious. Wonder if you have a self jannying role

I'm referring to my lynch being janitored. And I bring it up because, with my claim (below) you'll see that, should my alignment not be revealed with my lynch, you in particular if scum can simply argue I was scum, though admittedly with Michelle claiming to have blocked you my initial reason for pointing out to you is lessened somewhat.

Aside from roleblocker, I have a passive where, if I'm killed, my killer is role crushed for one cycle.
I have another passive which makes me immune to investigative abilities. More on this in a minute (including how this informed my mindset for yesterday).
I have my roleblock.
And I have a one-shot ability that reflects all abilities that target me back to the user. I only have a 50% of surviving a kill (regular kill, specifically) via the use of this ability, though.

So, how my investigation immunity informed my play yesterday. Well, firstly, I knew not to bother claiming it. Unlike a Miller, I don't return false results, so there isn't the risk of a Cop claiming to have a guilty on me. Additionally, it's also impossible to confirm, unlike a miller, which will show up on things like role cops and trackers/watchers will work on them. I knew should I claim it, it would be dismissed as me trying to deter investigations, and I'd probably be lynched straight up.

I also knew that I needed to be extremely aggressive in my play. Because if I played the slow game like normal, there was a good chance someone would check me, and then get suspicious that I can't be confirmed via investigations. However, if I was aggressive, and caught scum Day 1, there would be no reason to investigate me, mitigating my passive entirely. I would then also be extremely likely to be killed, so I could pop my one shot, and be mostly happy with my positon for the rest of the game.

This is another reason why I wanted T-Pein to claim. Because while I'm not in a counter claim with him, that does make two town roles hard to confirm, which felt high to me.

Now, here I'm going to metagame a bit. I should have, objectively, gone for Poison, who I was pretty confident was scum from her first post to me in this thread, which I felt was extremely awkward. But hosting meta is at play. Because this marks the third time I've received a role from Oreki wherein I am immune to investigations. In the AB Member Mafia game here, you'll see I was a town role that had this passive, and in another game elsewhere, I had the same passive, though I *think* I was scum in that one (could be wrong though, I forget how many Oreki games I've played). As soon as I saw this passive, I was convinced that Oreki had manually assigned roles to an extent, because the chances of me just happening to receive this role for the third time was astronomically low. So, this is why I went for SoulKiller. After his really poor entrance, my thought process was that Oreki had assigned him an extremely strong role. Either a town leader type role, or scum, and my assumption was probably a scum one. Now, I was actually correct in my theory that Oreki had given Soul a super role, but obviously on the wrong side of my overall conclusion. So that's why I doubled down hard on Soul.

So it goes. I feel like I had the right approach to my role, unfortunately it doesn't always work out. But, that's everything on the table.

These are the quotes that was latest of there discussion where do they elaborate on this.

And again why choose to be antagonistic instead of helpful again wasting my time with these tantrums.

 

[Sagebee]

Did someone claim jailkeeper or did I imagine it?

Also same can be said about you do you read either be helpful or just shut up

 

[Grammaton]

Also same can be said about you do you read either be helpful or just shut up

yes, checking something I caught a glimpse of is exactly the same as just inventing quotes and lecturing people on being helpful isnt it.

ignored.

 

[Sagebee]

yes, checking something I caught a glimpse of is exactly the same as just inventing quotes and lecturing people on being helpful isnt it.

ignored.

Are you going to be antagonistic and distracting all the way through the game are you going to focus on the game

 

[Aether9]

1. Michelle - Probably Town
2. Poison - [Ravus Nox Flueret]
3. Toujo - Town*
4. Rej - [Arden Izunia]
5. SoulKiller - [Noctis Lucis Caelum]
6. Ultraviolet - Probably Town, but scrutinise if I'm janitored
7. T-Pein - Lean scum
8. Grammaton - Lean Town
9. Thestatusquo - Lean Scum, but mostly just apathetic
10. NatsuDragneel123 - AWOL, lean scum
11. KekW - Probably Town
12. Aether9 - Lean Scum
13. Alice in Noodleland - AWOL, lean Scum
14. Sagebee - Lean Town, sadly
15. XTMF - Probably Town

T-Pein
TSQ
Natsu
Aether
Alice

All things being well, and my flip revealing my alignment, I feel good about two scum in here. My choice would be Aether/Alice, then Natsu, then T-Pein, then TSQ.

so what makes alice ahead of natsu? also when did your read on me changed?

 

[XTMF]

so what makes alice ahead of natsu? also when did your read on me changed?

Has Natsu even posted more than twice?

 

[Ultraviolet]

Can I get anyone else discussing Ratchet's alignment

 

[Grammaton]

Their play seems town to me, but theres some circumstantial evidence that bothers me, would be my tldr

 

[Ultraviolet]

Their play seems town to me, but theres some circumstantial evidence that bothers me, would be my tldr

Can you elaborate here because I am not seeing it

 

[Grammaton]

Can you elaborate here because I am not seeing it

basically the reasons i outlined on Day 1. I dont understand the scum motive for anything he has done, that cant be more satisfactorily explained by him being wrong town.

The stuff that bothers me is the rb / jk dichotomy, and his position on that being to not pursue Michelle over it, which surprises me given his initial read on her and how vehement he was. If hes fully explained the transition to that somewhere, id like to read it but I dont recall seeing it.

Theres also Poison not moving her vote with 15 minutes til EoD, even though she acknowledged SK had claimed Noctis in such a way that it was apparent she wouldnt have wanted to lynch him, but without knowing where she would have put it, hard to put a value on this.

 

[Toujo]

so what makes alice ahead of natsu? also when did your read on me changed?

Has Natsu even posted more than twice?

It's more that I've got more town reads than scum reads, and having reflected on Day 1 I don't really like how you mostly seemed to parrot what was said after it was said. Alice is ahead of Natsu because I felt like Alice's few contributions were mailed in, Natsu is there because he isn't really trying, and I feel like scum lies in there. To be honest, you probably belong behind the two of them.

 

[Toujo]

The stuff that bothers me is the rb / jk dichotomy, and his position on that being to not pursue Michelle over it, which surprises me given his initial read on her and how vehement he was. If hes fully explained the transition to that somewhere, id like to read it but I dont recall seeing it.

I haven't really processed it. I don't see it as a huge issue, and I think Michelle claiming it here is super risky if she's scum because I've already claimed roleblocker Day 1, so I don't see the scum incentive to put a target on her back with that when she could simply just have not claimed it.

 

[Grammaton]

I haven't really processed it. I don't see it as a huge issue, and I think Michelle claiming it here is super risky if she's scum because I've already claimed roleblocker Day 1, so I don't see the scum incentive to put a target on her back with that when she could simply just have not claimed it.

I understand the point youre making, but shes (to my knowledge) fairly universally town read at this point anyway, which would mitigate that risk somewhat

 

[Ultraviolet]

I'm referring to my lynch being janitored. And I bring it up because, with my claim (below) you'll see that, should my alignment not be revealed with my lynch, you in particular if scum can simply argue I was scum, though admittedly with Michelle claiming to have blocked you my initial reason for pointing out to you is lessened somewhat.

Aside from roleblocker, I have a passive where, if I'm killed, my killer is role crushed for one cycle.
I have another passive which makes me immune to investigative abilities. More on this in a minute (including how this informed my mindset for yesterday).
I have my roleblock.
And I have a one-shot ability that reflects all abilities that target me back to the user. I only have a 50% of surviving a kill (regular kill, specifically) via the use of this ability, though.

So, how my investigation immunity informed my play yesterday. Well, firstly, I knew not to bother claiming it. Unlike a Miller, I don't return false results, so there isn't the risk of a Cop claiming to have a guilty on me. Additionally, it's also impossible to confirm, unlike a miller, which will show up on things like role cops and trackers/watchers will work on them. I knew should I claim it, it would be dismissed as me trying to deter investigations, and I'd probably be lynched straight up.

I also knew that I needed to be extremely aggressive in my play. Because if I played the slow game like normal, there was a good chance someone would check me, and then get suspicious that I can't be confirmed via investigations. However, if I was aggressive, and caught scum Day 1, there would be no reason to investigate me, mitigating my passive entirely. I would then also be extremely likely to be killed, so I could pop my one shot, and be mostly happy with my positon for the rest of the game.

This is another reason why I wanted T-Pein to claim. Because while I'm not in a counter claim with him, that does make two town roles hard to confirm, which felt high to me.

Now, here I'm going to metagame a bit. I should have, objectively, gone for Poison, who I was pretty confident was scum from her first post to me in this thread, which I felt was extremely awkward. But hosting meta is at play. Because this marks the third time I've received a role from Oreki wherein I am immune to investigations. In the AB Member Mafia game here, you'll see I was a town role that had this passive, and in another game elsewhere, I had the same passive, though I *think* I was scum in that one (could be wrong though, I forget how many Oreki games I've played). As soon as I saw this passive, I was convinced that Oreki had manually assigned roles to an extent, because the chances of me just happening to receive this role for the third time was astronomically low. So, this is why I went for SoulKiller. After his really poor entrance, my thought process was that Oreki had assigned him an extremely strong role. Either a town leader type role, or scum, and my assumption was probably a scum one. Now, I was actually correct in my theory that Oreki had given Soul a super role, but obviously on the wrong side of my overall conclusion. So that's why I doubled down hard on Soul.

So it goes. I feel like I had the right approach to my role, unfortunately it doesn't always work out. But, that's everything on the table.

Irt Ratchet's claim

The first and foremost problem from a set up standpoint is the abundance of roleblocking roles. Town having both a roleblock and jailkeep is problematic and unlikely if either of the following exist:

- Some other variation of a roleblock ability
- A Doctor, or other such protective ability

While I wouldn't say it's impossible, his stated target in Poison and their death happen to make for a convenient fake claim. If Ratchet is scum, he most likely borrowed the RB part of his claim from Poison, so if he claimed to target a living player, he's either forced to claim whomever poison targeted as his claim or he lies about RB'ing someone and risks being ousted.

On top of that, his target comes out of literally nowhere. There's 0 reason to suspect he actually thought poison was suspicious and was just conveniently concealing the fact. If there's anything that passes smell check here it's that Ratchet stated *on purpose* that he was targeting SK with the intention of lying about it. That could be a townie move, I've done similar things myself, but there's a lot of other possible reasons why he could have done so.

*thinking*

Actually, it occurs to me in the middle of this very post that Ratchet attracting so much negative attention to himself fits exactly with his claim of being able to reflect abilities. But NOT in a good way. Following yesterday's events, who do you think was most likely to target Ratchet? Probably townies with abilities. So, I can't say I'm fond of that.

Oh yeah, and the investigation proof thing. Which is padded with the qualifier that he's played in a game before where Oreki assigned him that modifier as town. I'll take his word for that but, but still yuck. How the **** does this add up to a town role? Or Shiva's flavor. On top of that, I suspect he'd be more likely to question T-Peins claim instead of letting it go.

Finally, his reasoning for suspecting Soul on the basis of having an important role assignment is

A) Inconsistent with his actions after Soul claimed, since Noctis should have fit perfectly with that theory
B) Perfectly consistent with Scum Ratchet concluding Soul was 3p and going after him ferociously

All in all, Ratchet's gotta go. His alignment flip is absolutely necessary, especially because if he is to be believed at least in-part, we cannot deal with him reliably by vig or investigation (While I think Ratchet is scum and thus lying, there's probably partial truth to his passive abilities). We need that info. If he's town we'll be able to pick up the pieces.

 

[Ultraviolet]

basically the reasons i outlined on Day 1. I dont understand the scum motive for anything he has done, that cant be more satisfactorily explained by him being wrong town.

The stuff that bothers me is the rb / jk dichotomy, and his position on that being to not pursue Michelle over it, which surprises me given his initial read on her and how vehement he was. If hes fully explained the transition to that somewhere, id like to read it but I dont recall seeing it.

Theres also Poison not moving her vote with 15 minutes til EoD, even though she acknowledged SK had claimed Noctis in such a way that it was apparent she wouldnt have wanted to lynch him, but without knowing where she would have put it, hard to put a value on this.

Well, it's Day 2 now. The context is different enough for that read to be totally invalidated - the fact that Ratchet was not only ultimately wrong but attempted to cast doubt on an OBVIOUSLY town role before shoddily diverting to the next wagon totally negates the objection I had to lynching him from yesterday - which is that he has no scum motive. He reversed that entirely at the very end of the day.

 

[Sagebee]

@natsudragoneel123 you've disappeared most of the game lets get some input from you

@Houtarou can we get the vote count so far

 

[Sagebee]

For some some reason it's not letting me @ natsu properly

 

[Ultraviolet]

@Houtarou can we get the vote count so far

lol

 

[Sagebee]

lol

What's so funny?

 

[XTMF]

Irt Ratchet's claim

The first and foremost problem from a set up standpoint is the abundance of roleblocking roles. Town having both a roleblock and jailkeep is problematic and unlikely if either of the following exist:

- Some other variation of a roleblock ability
- A Doctor, or other such protective ability

While I wouldn't say it's impossible, his stated target in Poison and their death happen to make for a convenient fake claim. If Ratchet is scum, he most likely borrowed the RB part of his claim from Poison, so if he claimed to target a living player, he's either forced to claim whomever poison targeted as his claim or he lies about RB'ing someone and risks being ousted.

On top of that, his target comes out of literally nowhere. There's 0 reason to suspect he actually thought poison was suspicious and was just conveniently concealing the fact. If there's anything that passes smell check here it's that Ratchet stated *on purpose* that he was targeting SK with the intention of lying about it. That could be a townie move, I've done similar things myself, but there's a lot of other possible reasons why he could have done so.

*thinking*

Actually, it occurs to me in the middle of this very post that Ratchet attracting so much negative attention to himself fits exactly with his claim of being able to reflect abilities. But NOT in a good way. Following yesterday's events, who do you think was most likely to target Ratchet? Probably townies with abilities. So, I can't say I'm fond of that.

Oh yeah, and the investigation proof thing. Which is padded with the qualifier that he's played in a game before where Oreki assigned him that modifier as town. I'll take his word for that but, but still yuck. How the **** does this add up to a town role? Or Shiva's flavor. On top of that, I suspect he'd be more likely to question T-Peins claim instead of letting it go.

Finally, his reasoning for suspecting Soul on the basis of having an important role assignment is

A) Inconsistent with his actions after Soul claimed, since Noctis should have fit perfectly with that theory
B) Perfectly consistent with Scum Ratchet concluding Soul was 3p and going after him ferociously

All in all, Ratchet's gotta go. His alignment flip is absolutely necessary, especially because if he is to be believed at least in-part, we cannot deal with him reliably by vig or investigation (While I think Ratchet is scum and thus lying, there's probably partial truth to his passive abilities). We need that info. If he's town we'll be able to pick up the pieces.

I'd be shocked if Ratchet was Invest Immune.