[Game] Final Fantasy XV: Return of the True King! #38

Who is the MVP?

  • Aether9

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Alice in Noodleland

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Grammaton

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kekw

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mango Sempai

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NatsuDragneel123

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Poison

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rej

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Soulkiller

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Thestatusquo

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Toujo

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • XTMF

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    10
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Ultraviolet

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?????

And?

The intent was there for him to be able to safely claim miller. Its why he had a Niflheim aligned character as his fake

Its not a safe fake if someone else has the same role
Er, no.

The role sheet is just specifying that he reads as guilty, because for a 3rd party that's inherently ambiguous. In almost all 3p roles there is some mention of how you alignment scan. It doesn't substitute a miller slot. I assume a safe claim is provided to all scum players.

I would have really loved to roll Ardyn btw. What a waste.
 

Toujo

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Ratchet the thing about playing Ben Shapiro style is that you can't make dogshit plays and reason your way out of them because I know you wouldn't do them in the first place.
I don't agree that t was dogshit though. That doesn't mean I can't come to the wrong conclusion. I also don't agree that I've played "Ben Shapiro" style, either.
Calling Noctis a fake claim was never, ever logical. Even Gram who was convinced that one of the central roles could be a fake claim denied that theory. For you to adamantly support it up until it was obvious that wasn't going to work shows you have an agenda.
Gram has mechanical information regarding that. I do not.
Then right out of the gate you claim you roleblocked the guy who roleblocks. Poison also contributed to pushing SK's wagon over yours.
Poison was a sensible target. Who would you rather I have blocked? I couldn't have known she could make superkills.
 

Ultraviolet

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I don't agree that t was dogshit though. That doesn't mean I can't come to the wrong conclusion. I also don't agree that I've played "Ben Shapiro" style, either.
Gram has mechanical information regarding that. I do not.
Poison was a sensible target. Who would you rather I have blocked? I couldn't have known she could make superkills.
Of course you can be wrong. But if you're consistently wrong for nonsensical reasons the most likely conclusion is that you're simply scum.

There's a lot of other minor details in here that lend me to this conclusion that I didn't mention, such as you hard pushing for T-Peins role claim and then dropping it when I denied you the opportunity.
 

Toujo

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Just ISO'd Poison and I feel like him and Ratchet have some pretty good partner equity. He hardly mentions him at all or interacts with Ratchet directly up until late EoD when they're competing wagons and gives some really hedgy opinions on "at least one scum in there", says Ratchet looks bad but lets himself get "talked into" voting SK by me/gramma

If the above wagon was truly t/t he could just vote Ratchet and call it a day. Instead he makes a town read on SK a few hours before EoD and when it comes down to the wire he turns around and votes him after being "talked into it"







So here's the million dollar question, why doesn't he vote Ratchet? Why does he compromise his own position of being consistent when it costs him literally nothing if Ratchet is town?

Because he's his fucking partner lmao
Counterpoint: as scum, I should objectively be bussed there, because even if I survive the Day 1 lynch, I'll be up for a lynch Day 2 after the Town flip. Do you believe I'd demand my scum team risk themselves to survive one more day? If so, I don't know what to tell you. You clearly don't think I'm a competent scum player.
 

Ultraviolet

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Counterpoint: as scum, I should objectively be bussed there, because even if I survive the Day 1 lynch, I'll be up for a lynch Day 2 after the Town flip. Do you believe I'd demand my scum team risk themselves to survive one more day? If so, I don't know what to tell you. You clearly don't think I'm a competent scum player.
Or you could nab a free town lynch and then have a planned bus on you tomorrow, which would actually be the optimal play here. Unfortunately for you, SK just happened to claim the one role that you couldn't possible shade.
 

Toujo

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Of course you can be wrong. But if you're consistently wrong for nonsensical reasons the most likely conclusion is that you're simply scum.

There's a lot of other minor details in here that lend me to this conclusion that I didn't mention, such as you hard pushing for T-Peins role claim and then dropping it when I denied you the opportunity.
And how the **** have I been "consistently" wrong? Several people agreed with my read on Soul, that was why he was the leading wagon. My read on Poison was proven correct, and clearly I was right to distrust Rej, so...? 50/50 is "cocnsitently wrong" in your book?

I dropped it because there was no point repeating me asking for a claim if only two people are asking for it. I was right, Millers should be forced to claim, but I can't force people to do something. That's kind of why you get a consensus for these things.
 

Toujo

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Or you could nab a free town lynch and then have a planned bus on you tomorrow, which would actually be the optimal play here. Unfortunately for you, SK just happened to claim the one role that you couldn't possible shade.
Bullshit. Even if I got a Noctis lynch, the following Day Phase I'd be likely lynched, and then when my wagon is analysed Poison would look really bad. Nothing optimal about that, and you know it. Like I said, your logic here requires me to have told Poison to side with Soul, and then suddenly to demand Poison vote to save me, compromising the both of us for a one-day reprieve. It's literally never how I've approached scum, and even if you take my history aside, it's such a self-centered and suboptimal strategy to employ that it makes no sense if you assume even basic competency from Scum!Ratchet.
 

Ultraviolet

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And how the **** have I been "consistently" wrong? Several people agreed with my read on Soul, that was why he was the leading wagon. My read on Poison was proven correct, and clearly I was right to distrust Rej, so...? 50/50 is "cocnsitently wrong" in your book?

I dropped it because there was no point repeating me asking for a claim if only two people are asking for it. I was right, Millers should be forced to claim, but I can't force people to do something. That's kind of why you get a consensus for these things.
Your read on Soul was based on his meta, I don't think anyone shared that with you. Soul was keeping a low profile, because in hindsight he was one of the games most important power roles, so people independently came to the conclusion that he was sus.

Distrusting Rej literally says nothing about your alignment lol

I know you to be quite the stubborn person, I think if you had any sincere belief that he should full claim you would chastise me for disagreeing with you and not drop the issue quite so readily, instead you understood that pursuing this path would compromise your position
 

Ultraviolet

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Bullshit. Even if I got a Noctis lynch, the following Day Phase I'd be likely lynched, and then when my wagon is analysed Poison would look really bad. Nothing optimal about that, and you know it. Like I said, your logic here requires me to have told Poison to side with Soul, and then suddenly to demand Poison vote to save me, compromising the both of us for a one-day reprieve. It's literally never how I've approached scum, and even if you take my history aside, it's such a self-centered and suboptimal strategy to employ that it makes no sense if you assume even basic competency from Scum!Ratchet.
You're heavily relying on the assumption that you and your team mates are perfectly in unison they can very well act on their own. Poison was not aware Noctis was the lynch at the time he casted his vote, and there was plenty of other people on SK's wagon that could serve as potential mislynches going into tomorrow. Depending on who your team mates are, no, it is *not* optimal to go -1 day one and expect them to coast off that credibility.
 

Toujo

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Your read on Soul was based on his meta, I don't think anyone shared that with you. Soul was keeping a low profile, because in hindsight he was one of the games most important power roles, so people independently came to the conclusion that he was sus.
Nope, my read on Soul was based on his play *this game*. The point is, he was awful, and several people agreed with me. His play doesn't suddenly become good because he was actually Town, he played like scum and duly was forced into claiming.
Distrusting Rej literally says nothing about your alignment lol
Sure, but it does say I was right. And given that I'm addressing your claim that I've been *consistently wrong*, I think it's very much relevant to bring up. Or are you going to try and tell me providing examples of being right doesn't attack the notion that I've been wrong far too often to be Town?
I know you to be quite the stubborn person, I think if you had any sincere belief that he should full claim you would chastise me for disagreeing with you and not drop the issue quite so readily, instead you understood that pursuing this path would compromise your position
Then you don't know me as well as you think you do. You brought up he was likely to be a certain character, I agreed with you (thinking it was Ravus), and decided to drop it after it gained no traction, because it was a waste of time. Now, information has come to light that requires it to be reviewed, which is why I'm asking for it again. You can spin whatever conclusion you like, but don't pretend there is only one way to read this here.
 

Ultraviolet

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Just ISO'd Poison and I feel like him and Ratchet have some pretty good partner equity. He hardly mentions him at all or interacts with Ratchet directly up until late EoD when they're competing wagons and gives some really hedgy opinions on "at least one scum in there", says Ratchet looks bad but lets himself get "talked into" voting SK by me/gramma

If the above wagon was truly t/t he could just vote Ratchet and call it a day. Instead he makes a town read on SK a few hours before EoD and when it comes down to the wire he turns around and votes him after being "talked into it"

I am reading SK's ISO and it's just his fascination about ratchet and clearing Michelle, he is a well thought out and explained read why Toujo push on Michelle is not good and is wrong but SK is not clearing Michelle.

Hot take SK is town.

Scum SK always against half the player's list specially Michelle and me for weird reasons, the fact that he is thinking about things and not having someone as fixed alignment is something I find extraordinarily not Scum!SK trope. But despite his tone he is not sounding like he is pretending to be a town. Also I just read 40 posts maybe I'll read more.

Also can anyone tell me what minamoto love reacted SK's argument with Toujo, I laughed for a minute lmao.
Yeah no, Toujo definitely looking bad from SK ISO.

SK doesn't look from Sk's obsession with only one player.

SK does look from his opinion on Michelle reads.

@Ultraviolet i make nothing of Sk's push on me that I skimmed through. If SK is indeed scum, and tried to mislynch me that way then I would say he is not scum with Michelle and Ted who has seen me play, and I don't think SK would make such a bad and useless push.

@Toujo I haven't read your case against me, but I'm sure it's bad looking at Sk's replies to your case.

Why trying to mislynch busy poison? Grow up, old men, that's not how it is done.
I know right. I'm just confused.

Maybe I shouldn't vote at all cause I'm legit unsure and just sheeped grammaton cause case made sense.
So here's the million dollar question, why doesn't he vote Ratchet? Why does he compromise his own position of being consistent when it costs him literally nothing if Ratchet is town?

Because he's his fucking partner lmao
Noted that you didn't even respond to this
 

Toujo

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You're heavily relying on the assumption that you and your team mates are perfectly in unison they can very well act on their own. Poison was not aware Noctis was the lynch at the time he casted his vote, and there was plenty of other people on SK's wagon that could serve as potential mislynches going into tomorrow. Depending on who your team mates are, no, it is *not* optimal to go -1 day one and expect them to coast off that credibility.
No, not "perfectly" in unison. Just in some form of unison. I would like to think, after a whole Day Phase as the leading wagon, I would have took a moment or two to ensure my team mates look good in light of a likely flip of mine. I probably wouldn't demand they bus me, but I certainly would tell them to keep it open given that, even if I survived that day, the pressure on me probably wouldn't go away. Actually, I would have probably just bussed Poison and tried to ride the credit myself, because I've played Mafia for a little while, and understand that being scum requires longer-term planning. The idea that I'd have my scum team so careless as to compromise at least one of my partners needlessly for the gain of a single day phase for myself assumes I'm not just extremely selfish as a team mate, but also so self-absorbed that I would rather sacrifice the whole game just to avoid the ignomy of being lynched Day 1. Horseshit.
 

Grammaton

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Er, no.

The role sheet is just specifying that he reads as guilty, because for a 3rd party that's inherently ambiguous. In almost all 3p roles there is some mention of how you alignment scan. It doesn't substitute a miller slot. I assume a safe claim is provided to all scum players.

I would have really loved to roll Ardyn btw. What a waste.
No he has a specific passive denoting that he will investigate guilty. Its ambiguous on the part of the host as to what that guilty is (one would assume Niflheim aligned, as scanning as Ardyn aligned would be self explanatory), but lets say that passive didn't exist, he would scan as Ardyn Aligned. Why then go to the trouble of including this as a passive at all if the intent wasn't to be able to claim it?
 

Ultraviolet

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I've literally spent the past, like, thirty minutes responding to it? What?
I mean the specific allegation about partner equity, you're using wifom logic to explain why a team mate should bus you here but you don't actually refute the accusation that Poison is your partner and provide an explanation for his inconsistent actions.

The fact that he shaded you heavily but voted for his "town lean" SK, after asking for a valid reason from townies to switch his wagon points strongly to him having incentive not to lynch you. And calling you scum, from his standpoint, allows him to have his cake and eat it too by distancing. Who cares about what *you* would have liked your partners to do, they have their own agency.
 

Ultraviolet

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No he has a specific passive denoting that he will investigate guilty. Its ambiguous on the part of the host as to what that guilty is (one would assume Niflheim aligned, as scanning as Ardyn aligned would be self explanatory), but lets say that passive didn't exist, he would scan as Ardyn Aligned. Why then go to the trouble of including this as a passive at all if the intent wasn't to be able to claim it?
Again, the host needs to specify by default what a 3p will scan as, especially for a "survivor" role. You're looking too far into it.

That said I'm not *completely* opposed to just a character claim
 
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