[FEAR] The Gedo's Does No Evil

FearxDeath

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Hello guys, welcome to the next installment of Fear Threads! Today I will be discussing a certain similarity that I feel points towards the true intentions of the Juubi. Their are a few different sections but each is extremely short so feel free savor the read.


What is the Gedo?​

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To put it simply the Gedo Mazou is the Juubi without its Chakra, in a sense it is the Juubi in its rawest purest form, unaltered and/or adulterated by its Chakra. As we know the Juubi can take on several different forms and because of that it is hard to account for which form is its true form. Personally alot of people think the God Tree is the Juubi's true form but I disagree, The God Tree is the Juubi's chosen Final form. But if we took Obito, stripped him of all his Hashirama DNA and this and that, wouldnt what we have left by Obito's True form? Idk, Lets move on.

In the picture above we see the Gedo Mazou sitting down in a certain stance. This is the stance that the Gedo often takes when not out and about being controlled by whoever. So then the question must arise... Why this stance?


Analysis of Stance​

Well I believe the stance is a mixture... A mixture of who??

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Now if you dont already know who those crazy monkeys are they are Mizaru, Kikazaru, Iwazaru, and Shizaru. They represent the old saying "See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil, Do no Evil". They represent a corner stone in Shinto and Buddhist beliefs, here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:

"It is also possible that the three monkeys came from a more central root than a play on words. The shrine at Nikko is a Shinto shrine, and the monkey is an extremely important being in the Shinto religion.[citation needed] The monkey is believed to be the messenger of the Hie Shinto shrines, which also have connections with Tendai Buddhism. There are even important festivals that are celebrated during the year of the Monkey (occurring every twelve years) and a special festival is celebrated every sixteenth year of the Kōshin." *BTW If you are familiar with Sir Derp Obito's works then you know that he believes that the Uzumaki are really Kishimoto's interpretations of Shinto Priests, and if the Monkeys are extremely important to Shinto Religion, then this finding lays more claim to the fact that the Sage of 6 Paths may have something to do with the Uzumaki... I disgress*


Interesting Find​

Now this is the interesting part:

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If you look at this image you will notice that:

Its eyes are close/blind folded - It see's no Evil
Its ears are blocked - It hears no Evil
Its mouth is gagged - It speaks no Evil

Now here is where it gets interesting, In the story of the Monkeys the 4th Monkey who does no evil has his hands cross in his lap. And yet we see the Gedo's hands are not only upwards in the opposite position of the 4th monkey, but they are also handcuffed. But... Why? The Gedo cant move or anything, what purpose could handcuffing its hands serve? It is symbolism.

Handcuffs represent someone being forced to do something outside of their control. The Gedo Mazo's Hand being cuffed and then put in a position opposite of the 4th Monkey to me shows that it is being Forced to Do Evil.

See No Evil
Hear No Evil
Speak No Evil

Forced to Do Evil


Meaning​

To me this ties into the True nature and/or motives of the Juubi itself, as we know the Gedo is the Juubi in its rawest purest form. And so the Juubi is either being forced to commit Evil or has been placed in a position in which it must commit Evil.

  1. The Juubi is being forced to go through with the Eye of the Moon Plan against its will.
  2. The Juubi is forced to try and take its power back from the Princess in order to make the world a better place.
Those are 2 options but lets dig a little deeper into this. Who stripped the Juubi of its Chakra? The Sage, and thus it was at that time that the Juubi's hands were cuffed and placed in that position. The question is did the Sage do that to foreshadow how he felt about the situation or did the Juubi do it to express its feelings on the situation. Since I have no clue which answer is correct lets analyse both.

Sage

He stripped the Juubi of its Chakra and sealed it into the moon when he was nearing his death bed. And so it would have been around the time when he had decided to give the younger brother a chance to bring peace to the world his own way. But what if the Sage didnt approve of this decision, what if he agreed with the older brother who thought peace could only be obtained through force but just felt that the younger brother deserved a chance to find peace. And thus sealed the Juubi's hands that way to express that its Chakra, know the tailed beasts, would probably cause much strife and pain to the world, the same way the power of Ninjutsu did, and thus the Juubi's power would do evil, and by extension the Juubi would be forced to do Evil against its will.

The idea of the Sage disagreeing with the younger brother is actually something I have theorized before, you can check it out here. [ ][ ]


Juubi

This is pretty self evident, stripped of its powers and now sealed the Juubi feels that not only will the power that was stolen from it by the Princess but its very own Chakra would be used to cause great Evil. And thus chose that position to reflect the fact that its power would be used to do great Evil against its Will.

Perhaps a final warning to the Sage for the action he was about to commit. (With him being a Shinto Priest, he would undoubtedly understand the message.)


Conclusion​

What do you guys think? I mean I know by this time no one still believes the Juubi is pure Evil as some may have thought. But could it actually be oppose to the idea of Evil? Not in the sense that it is good, but in the sense that it does not acknowledge evil in a sense.

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Enjoy the Read!!!​


UPDATE #1

I would rather not use the word evil, but could you define evil?

The Juubi has created everything in Naruto world right?
Including mankind?

Mankind fought with each other, before the Juubi's chakra was taken (the fruit).
The Juubi didnt intervene yet, because it was not being involved in the fighting.

When princess Kaguya ate the forbidden fruit and used the Juubi's power, the
Juubi became involved. This is the reason why the Juubi attacked.
Not because of being good, evil or whatever, but because it got involved in the wars.

The Juubi is a creator and doenst want to be involved in the wars of its creation.
However, when the princess took the Juubi's power (the fruit), Juubi was being made
part of the war.

The Juubi wants all its power back, but not because it would be against evil. The Juubi wants back what belongs to it.
As Kurama said
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It has no feelings or ideals, it cant be sensed.

Its quite sad really, how mankind even made the 9 bijou part of the war, so they basically continued using the
Juubi's chakra for war, even when in a different form with feelings and ideals, which the 9 bijou have.

Hard to imagine how something without feelings and ideals can create though, dont you think?
So maybe it does have them in some/one form.
What I meant was more than it is against the notion of evil, as in it does not intervene. I was perhaps a little vague when mentioning the 3 Wise Monkeys.

The 3 Wise monkeys Stories can be better translated to mean:

Rather than See no Evil - Do not Look at Evil
Rather than Hear no Evil - Do not listen to Evil
Rather than Say no Evil - Do not Speak of Evil
Rather than do not Evil - Well.. Still do not Evil

So in a sense it is ignoring Evil as oppose to trying not to commit Evil. Which explains why the Tree and its people can live in peace around it while their are wars going on all over the place.

And perhaps that is what made the Sage feel that the Juubi lacked feelings and ideals because he felt it would have to be that way in order to ignore all the evil that was going on around it within intervening. Lets actually look further into this:

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Now here is the interesting part:

Ideals [ ] :

3. An ultimate object of endeavor; a goal.
4. An honorable or worthy principle or aim.

Now this is a weird because we know that the Tailed Beast never met the Juubi, they were created at the same time that it was sealed away. So then how do they know about it? The Sage. What they know of the Juubi was what was told to them from the Sage.

Now let us relate this to someone else who has no Goals or Ideals [ ]:

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But does this make Orochimaru Evil? I dont think so, he has shown that he is capable of great good. And on top of that he isnt exactly selfish. I think he just grasps a bigger picture which allows him to look past some seemingly horrible things in order to attain that bigger picture. Now in the same sense we have the Juubi, now remember that for a long time it and its people were living in "Peace" during a time where the world was pretty much at war.

I believe that this evil was allowed to go on simply for the fact that their was a bigger picture. Perhaps if the war was allowed to take its course then eventually peace would be obtained?

Now we have Kaguya's son who see's the warring happening and attempts to use his power to stop the warring only to find that the Juubi is trying to prevent him from doing so. Now ofcourse if the Juubi is obssessed with taking back its power instead of trying to stop the warring then this could come off as a lack of empathy for the human race, and a lack of aim since if it got its power back it would merely go back to being the God Tree and living in seclusion.

This is just my long and wordy way of saying that the Sages words may be misinterpreted as meaning the Juubi is void of emotion and evil, when in actually he was just expressing his disdain for the fact that the Juubi could be so callus.
 
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FreakensteinAG

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An interesting in-manga discovery complemented with extensive details on what it represents (the four Shinto monkeys) and how it ties into what we currently know prompts me to give this thread some thanks =D
 

Draxus

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The Juubi is neither good nor evil. It's a force of nature.

I really don't get how you can say the Gedo is the Juubi stripped it of it's chakra and yet call it "the purest form". That's very contradictory, as it implies alteration, and your Obito metaphor doesn't equate.

As for it's pose... it's clearly derived from the lotus posed often taken by Buddah's (a symbol of peace), however it's altered to show the creature has been bound and gagged. I think they symbolism is more like it's being forced into bondage in order to create peace, not to be against evil.
 
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FearxDeath

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Are you comparing it to the 3 non evil monkey?
Yes you are, i didnt READ AT FIRST
There are 4 Monkeys.. x__x

The Juubi is neither good nor evil. It's a force of nature.

I really don't get how you can say the Gedo is the Juubi stripped it of it's chakra and yet call it "the purest form". That's very contradictory, as it implies alteration, and your Obito metaphor doesn't equate.

As for it's pose... it's clearly derived from the lotus posed often taken by Buddah's (a symbol of peace), however it's altered to show the creature has been bound and gagged. I think they symbolism is more like it's being forced into bondage in order to create peace, not to be against evil.
1) Thats a good point, the one where you said it is neither good nor evil. I wanted to say something like that but at the same time I didnt want to make it seem indifferent. A better thing to say would have been to say it was oppose to Evil as oppose to saying it is Against Evil. Now to say any further in lieu of that would be to challenge the assertion made in the comparison between the 4 Monkeys and the Gedo. Which I dont think can be done...

2) I dont see how it is contradictory. Take a Mustang that has all the works. When you take away the neon lights, the hydralics, the spinners, then what you have left is a Mustang in its purest form unadulterated by anything extra. I guess the point you could make is that the Juubi's Chakra is not an adition or an extra but a part of its core being, and relate that to taking out the Mustangs engine and asking whether a Mustang without an engine is any purer. Regardless this is merely a difference in opinion, I recommend we agree to disagree on this point.

3) Now your saying you see a different symbolism than I did? Then make a thread letting everyone know what you found. As for me I see it referincing the 4 Monkeys.. If you disagree then ill be glad to hear why, but saying "I like this symbolism better" does really do anything to give or take away from what I did said. It only serves to divert attention away from the subject of the thread...

I like your reply, its decent. Its a shame we couldnt agree on a few more things though.
 

davidou

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That is an interesting theory .

There is just one "monkey" in Naruto.

So, the handcuffs on the sage ( the 4 monkeys , gedo mazou ) says that SO6P wanted to tell anyone who is next to that hidden statue:
-"the sage was controlled "


But he wrote his own story ( very important fact ) in an encrypted language.Contradictory.


Who controlled it and how is that possible?

Why would a guy seal the sage?
Although I don't think the SO6P is a "good" guy , he would have to be a very bad one to do that , devil?

I think Kishimoto is doing his own story , using a mix of concepts used in many great stories.I liked your thought.
 

Draxus

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3) Now your saying you see a different symbolism than I did? Then make a thread letting everyone know what you found. As for me I see it referincing the 4 Monkeys.. If you disagree then ill be glad to hear why, but saying "I like this symbolism better" does really do anything to give or take away from what I did said. It only serves to divert attention away from the subject of the thread...
I did say why. The relation to you make to the 4 monkey's is indirect, but the relation to the budda lotus pose is direct. It's the exact same pose, he's even sitting on a lotus.

Also I don't have the need to make a thread for every I have like you. It's silly to make a completely different thread about the same topic.
 

Meowazziel

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I would rather not use the word evil, but could you define evil?

The Juubi has created everything in Naruto world right?
Including mankind?

Mankind fought with each other, before the Juubi's chakra was taken (the fruit).
The Juubi didnt intervene yet, because it was not being involved in the fighting.

When princess Kaguya ate the forbidden fruit and used the Juubi's power, the
Juubi became involved. This is the reason why the Juubi attacked.
Not because of being good, evil or whatever, but because it got involved in the wars.

The Juubi is a creator and doenst want to be involved in the wars of its creation.
However, when the princess took the Juubi's power (the fruit), Juubi was being made
part of the war.

The Juubi wants all its power back, but not because it would be against evil. The Juubi wants back what belongs to it.
As Kurama said
You must be registered for see images
It has no feelings or ideals, it cant be sensed.

Its quite sad really, how mankind even made the 9 bijou part of the war, so they basically continued using the
Juubi's chakra for war, even when in a different form with feelings and ideals, which the 9 bijou have.

Hard to imagine how something without feelings and ideals can create though, dont you think?
So maybe it does have them in some/one form.
 
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FearxDeath

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Kikazaru, Iwazaru and Shizaru

I don't know the fourth monkey :|
I said the 4th monkey in the thread... showed you a picture with him in it... Feel free to use Google if you still have doubts... You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink.

That is an interesting theory .

There is just one "monkey" in Naruto.

So, the handcuffs on the sage ( the 4 monkeys , gedo mazou ) says that SO6P wanted to tell anyone who is next to that hidden statue:
-"the sage was controlled "


But he wrote his own story ( very important fact ) in an encrypted language.Contradictory.


Who controlled it and how is that possible?

Why would a guy seal the sage?
Although I don't think the SO6P is a "good" guy , he would have to be a very bad one to do that , devil?

I think Kishimoto is doing his own story , using a mix of concepts used in many great stories.I liked your thought.
Did you even read my thread?

I did say why. The relation to you make to the 4 monkey's is indirect, but the relation to the budda lotus pose is direct. It's the exact same pose, he's even sitting on a lotus.

Also I don't have the need to make a thread for every I have like you. It's silly to make a completely different thread about the same topic.
Just because you say it is indirect doesnt make that so. One thing you fail to realize is that the 3 Wise Monkeys are heavy laiden within Budhism.

"The source that popularized this pictorial maxim is a 17th century carving over a door of the famous Tōshō-gū shrine in Nikkō, Japan. The carvings at Toshogu Shrine were carved by Hidari Jingoro, and believed to have incorporated Confucius’s Code of Conduct, using the monkey as a way to depict man’s life cycle. There are a total of 8 panels, and the iconic three wise monkeys picture comes from panel 2. The philosophy, however, probably originally came to Japan with a Tendai-Buddhist legend, from China in the 8th century (Nara Period). It has been suggested that the figures represent the three dogmas of the so-called middle school of the sect."

Now you look at it and see Budha with his hands handcuffed, I look at it and see a representation of the Monkeys... And your here to tell me that your interpretation is better than mine? F**k you...

I would rather not use the word evil, but could you define evil?

The Juubi has created everything in Naruto world right?
Including mankind?

Mankind fought with each other, before the Juubi's chakra was taken (the fruit).
The Juubi didnt intervene yet, because it was not being involved in the fighting.

When princess Kaguya ate the forbidden fruit and used the Juubi's power, the
Juubi became involved. This is the reason why the Juubi attacked.
Not because of being good, evil or whatever, but because it got involved in the wars.

The Juubi is a creator and doenst want to be involved in the wars of its creation.
However, when the princess took the Juubi's power (the fruit), Juubi was being made
part of the war.

The Juubi wants all its power back, but not because it would be against evil. The Juubi wants back what belongs to it.
As Kurama said
You must be registered for see images
It has no feelings or ideals, it cant be sensed.

Its quite sad really, how mankind even made the 9 bijou part of the war, so they basically continued using the
Juubi's chakra for war, even when in a different form with feelings and ideals, which the 9 bijou have.

Hard to imagine how something without feelings and ideals can create though, dont you think?
So maybe it does have them in some/one form.
Yah I am going to change the conclusion where I question whether its against evil, what I meant was more than it is against the notion of evil, as in it does not intervere.

The 3 Wisemonkeys Stories can be better translated to mean:

Rather than See no Evil - Do not Look at Evil
Rather than Hear no Evil - Do not listen to Evil
Rather than Say no Evil - Do not Speak of Evil

So in a sense it is ignoring Evil as oppose to trying not to commit Evil. Which explains why the Tree and its people can live in peace around it while their are wars going on all over the place. And perhaps that points towards the Juubi having no Ideals or feelings, maybe the Sage felt that way about the Juubi and said that to the Tailed Beasts simply because he felt it would have to be that way in order to ignore all the evil that was going on around it within intervening.

Interesting, ill have to add this idea to an Update when I get back.
 

FearxDeath

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yep I did ,you are not smart enough to understand , bad for you.
I loved the discussion.
Fine let me explain to you why I ask:

There is just one "monkey" in Naruto.
You say there is only 1 Monkey in Naruto, I assume when you say this you are reffering to the Gedo from which I drew a comparison to the 4 Wise Monkeys. Now if I take it for what I think you mean then this statement is completely rhetorical and didnt need to be said...

So, the handcuffs on the sage ( the 4 monkeys , gedo mazou ) says that SO6P wanted to tell anyone who is next to that hidden statue:
-"the sage was controlled "
The handcuffs were never on the Sage... Never.. The handcuffs were on the Gedo Mazo, the Gedo Mazo is the empty shell of the Juubi.. At no point in time were handcuffs ever on the Gedo Mazo.. This is the statement is what makes me think you did not read.

But he wrote his own story ( very important fact ) in an encrypted language.Contradictory.
This is only contradictory because you believe HE was the one who was being controlled, again this isnt true, I have no clue where you got this notion from as my thread states the complete opposite. Hence why I ask if you truly read/understood my thread.

Who controlled it and how is that possible?

Why would a guy seal the sage?
Although I don't think the SO6P is a "good" guy , he would have to be a very bad one to do that , devil?
Again the Sage was never sealed, I never say this in my thread, which AGAIN makes me wonder whether you read it/understood it.


I think Kishimoto is doing his own story , using a mix of concepts used in many great stories.I liked your thought.
Interesting Idea
 

Draxus

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Just because you say it is indirect doesnt make that so. One thing you fail to realize is that the 3 Wise Monkeys are heavy laiden within Budhism.

Now you look at it and see Budha with his hands handcuffed, I look at it and see a representation of the Monkeys... And your here to tell me that your interpretation is better than mine? F**k you..
First off, you made the thread so you're putting you idea out they to be scrutinized by the public, if I feel my interpretation is better than yours, I'll state it if I want. No need to get offended or be a **** about it. You should be happy someone wants to bring actual discussion to your thread. Or do you just post these incessant theories to have your e-peen stroked?

You relation is indirect because the statue is not actually in those poses, while it IS in the lotus pose. That's the difference and I'm saying either way is better. I'm through here.
 
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Xlad

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Really interesting thought. I never knew why Gedo Mazo was in that idled state, but your explanation really makes sense as to what the Gedo symbolizes. I am not too certain about the feelings and ideals, though.

But still. Lol
 

FearxDeath

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I am in an update :win:

So basically you are saying that the Juubi does have ideals?
:) Yes, if anything its ideals are on a far larger scale than that of anyone else in the series.

First off, you made the thread so you're putting you idea out they to be scrutinized by the public, if I feel my interpretation is better than yours, I'll state it if I want. No need to get offended or be a **** about it. You should be happy someone wants to bring actual discussion to your thread. Or do you just post these incessant theories to have your e-peen stroked?

You relation is indirect because the statue is not actually in those poses, while it IS in the lotus pose. That's the difference and I'm saying either way is better. I'm through here.
You make a very good point, but you have to understand that even scrutiny must meet a certain level of coherance. If I were to post that an elaborate thread on why Cheeseburgers are good, you can reply saying I am wrong; you can reply saying I am right; you can reply saying I didnt do enough research or that I screwed up somewhere; or even reply that you disagree; but replying saying Pizza is better is a little weird because that is off topic. We have now gone from the viability of Cheese burgers being good to comparing Cheeseburgers to Pizza, and the worst part about this is that these are both opinions. How can someone actually make factual evidence that Pizza is better than a Cheeseburger and vice versa?

What I am trying to say is that you feel that the Budha example is a better representation of the Gedo's stance on the flower, while I feel the 4 Wise Monkeys do the stance more justice. These are opinions, and I simply cant get into an argument on whether my opinion is better or worse than someone else's... it just doesnt make sense. With that I leave you with a qoute of my first reply to your post.

"3) Now your saying you see a different symbolism than I did? Then make a thread letting everyone know what you found. As for me I see it referincing the 4 Monkeys.. If you disagree then ill be glad to hear why, but saying "I like this symbolism better" [doesnt] really do anything to give or take away from what I did said. It only serves to divert attention away from the subject of the thread..."

Dont get me wrong the Budha symbolism was a good find, and I would love to see you make a thread about it and follow it up. Just understand that it serves no purpose to say "This symbolism is better" as oppose to "There is also this symbolism what do you think?" One comes off as challenging, the other informative.

Really interesting thought. I never knew why Gedo Mazo was in that idled state, but your explanation really makes sense as to what the Gedo symbolizes. I am not too certain about the feelings and ideals, though.

But still. Lol
Thanks :)
 
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