[FE@R] Juubito's Black Hole Release: Analyzed

[FearxDeath]

It explodes like an atomic bomb, but not in the same way. It produces so much radiation from gamma rays most likely, that it make the air around it super hot, so everything would be on fire also, and either because of that or not, creates a massive shockwave/blast that would destroy anything around it in a large area. It's destructive power is like an atomic bomb, but you need far less antimatter to achieve the same destructive power. and I don't know where you get that antimatter attracts matter.it's not a black hole, it doesn't have its own gravity. They have to suspend it in a vacuum and make it float with magnets or something so it doesn't touch matter, but it's not attracting matter. If it attracted matter even if they suspended it matter would want to go to it anyway, and you probably couldn't store it safely. Oh and go read my other post for exactly what sandaime said. He said I suspect not probably, and more than four, and greater than kekkei genkai, even a kekkei touta.

Do you have a source that backs up the claims you are making? Or am I suppose to take all this on faith?

 

[boshans]

No I didn't look it up on any site or anything, I just like science. How it explodes I am pretty certain of. I don't know about the attracting matter part, I didn't read that or hear that anywhere, that's just my scientific reasoning based on facts I know, but it sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Mr Hiru]

I will proof-read this tommorow @__@

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Here I am just going to Analyzed Juubito's Black Hole Release, or so it is popularly called.​

Clearing the Air​

Spoiler

First off people seem to think that this is a mixture of all 5 Elements. People assume this because:

1) Rinnegan allows one to Master and use all 5 Nature Types
2) Being able to use 2 or More Nature Types qualifies one to used KKG, 3 is a KKT (Kekkie Tota')
3) And since BH Release has never been seen before it must be a mix of all 5?

But here is the Rub, the Rinnegan does allow one to master all 5 Nature Types, but it doesnt let one Master KKG. Which is this? Because to this day the only KKG we have seen any Rinnegan user use is the ones he was born with, this excludes Madara and Obito who use Mokuton but that is because they have Hashirama cells.

With that we see that it is unlikely for the Rinnegan to provide use of KKG, which makes sense as KKG have already been said to only be accessible to members of the clans said KKG pertains to.

Enter Juubi​

Spoiler

So the question is, can the Juubi use all KKG's?

Why do we think this??? Because its the Juubi, Duh, The Progenitor? Beginning and the End? Alpha and Ome; let me stop myself right there. To be completely honest I am not quite sure if the Juubi itself can use any Jutsu's. I dont think it can use any releases, I dont think he can use seals, I dont even think it can use Yin/Yang Release... Think about it, Do any the Tailed Beasts use Ninjutsu? No!

And since we know that the Rinnegan doesn't provide one with KKG either, the question remains, what is this Black Hole Release?

People want to bring this up in response to whether or not Juubito can mix Natures IE use KKG.

Spoiler

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But keep in mind that he says "probably" and only makes this conclusion based on the fact that it is similar to Oonoki's Dust Release which is a Kekkie Tota. Now I am not one to dismiss what a character says when they state something as a fact, but when they say "probably" and "looks similar too" then I take it with a grain of salt. Especially based on the above where I show that it is unlikely that the Rinnegan itself allows KKG/KKT or above.

Hint​

Spoiler

Look very closely!

Spoiler

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Does that Black Ball look like anything else to you?

Spoiler

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Anti-Matter Release?​

Spoiler

Could this not be a KKG but rather a new Element in itself? Anti-matter? Here are a few things you should consider.

1) Anti-Matter is matter, but rather than their atoms having an Electron like matter does, theirs have what is called a Positron, its like Bizzaro World. But the important thing is that it is Matter with an Opposite charge, and Opposites attract. Which could explain how Chibaku Tensei works.

2) Anti-Matter again has the Opposite Charge as Matter, and What happens when a Positive meets a Negative? They cancel each other out, Which is what happens when Anti-Matter and Matter come together, they both cease to exist. Which explains why Obito's Anti-Matter Release de-materializes everything in its path.

3) I am still not sure how he can control the attraction of the Anti-Matter, As even Nagato showed when he used it, while the Anti-Matter was in his hands it did not attract anything, it was only when he released it that it began to attract matter. But this is probably done with Chakra somehow, the same way Juubito controls the Shape and Size of it.

But check this out [

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]:

"- Yes. For storing small amounts of energy in an extremely compact way, antimatter is very useful. The energy density stored in antimatter is about 1 billion times higher than in batteries.

- But: the amount of antimatter that is produced each year in big accelerator labs such as CERN or Fermilab corresponds to an energy that would allow a 100 W light bulb shine for 15 minutes. "

It seems that Anti-Matter can hold a charge much like a Battery but about a billion times higher, which means you can crank up its attraction to the matter around it, or even turn it down, if one knew how. I believe Obito and Nagato do.

4) I believe it takes alot of chakra to upkeep these Anti-Matter Balls/Material, which is why we dont see extended use of the Technique by Rinnegan users, It took nearly all of Nagato remaining strenght just to use to form the ball.

Importance of Nothingness​

Spoiler

The Rinnegan has been linked to the Samsara which is where the Paths of Pain get their names. But then how does Nothingness/Emptiness come from?

A Key Budhist Teaching known as Sunyata [

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], Here is an excerpt [

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]:

"Emptiness is a key concept in Buddhist philosophy, or more precisely, in the ontology of Mahayana Buddhism. The phrase "form is emptiness; emptiness is form" is perhaps the most celebrated paradox associated with Buddhist philosophy. It is the supreme mantra."

"What is emptiness then? To understand the philosophical meaning of this term, let's look at a simple solid object, such as a cup. How is a cup empty? We usually say that a cup is empty if it does not contain any liquid or solid. This is the ordinary meaning of emptiness. But, is the cup really empty? A cup empty of liquids or solids is still full of air. To be precise, we must therefore state what the cup is empty of. Can a cup be empty of all substance? A cup in a vacuum does not contain any air, but it still contains space, light, radiation, as well as its own substance. Hence, from a physical point of view, the cup is always full of something. Yet, from the Buddhist point of view, the cup is always empty. The Buddhist understanding of emptiness is different from the physical meaning. The cup being empty means that it is devoid of inherent existence."

Conclusion​

Spoiler

I believe that Black Hole Release is actually Anti-Matter Tech. I wont act like I am the first one to think this, but I think I do a fair job in explaining why I believe so.

Thanks to "

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" for proposing the idea.

Enjoy the Read​

An interesting reading my friend.

Spoiler

3) I am still not sure how he can control the attraction of the Anti-Matter, As even Nagato showed when he used it, while the Anti-Matter was in his hands it did not attract anything, it was only when he released it that it began to attract matter. But this is probably done with Chakra somehow, the same way Juubito controls the Shape and Size of it.

How about creation of high density mass to induce a gravity field, just like the Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation? That's the way blackholes works, theorically. The shape of the gravity field varies with the shape of the high density mass.

 

[FearxDeath]

No I didn't look it up on any site or anything, I just like science. How it explodes I am pretty certain of. I don't know about the attracting matter part, I didn't read that or hear that anywhere, that's just my scientific reasoning based on facts I know, but it sounds reasonable to me.

I see, the reason I ask is because the 2 things we are claiming to be "Science" are now contradicting each other. So it would be good to have a way we could look at something scientific for reference.

An interesting reading my friend.

Spoiler

3) I am still not sure how he can control the attraction of the Anti-Matter, As even Nagato showed when he used it, while the Anti-Matter was in his hands it did not attract anything, it was only when he released it that it began to attract matter. But this is probably done with Chakra somehow, the same way Juubito controls the Shape and Size of it.

How about creation of high density mass to induce a gravity field, just like the Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation? That's the way blackholes works, theorically. The shape of the gravity field varies with the shape of the high density mass.

I did say in a part of my thread that the object was alot denser than it way, I used the term super saturated. But for the density needed to induce the kinds of gravitation forces that we have seen in CHibaku Tensei would be unreal. The moon itself doesnt have that kind of gravity, neither does the aerth, Black Holes have a density liken with sun's, hence why they are mainly formed when dying stars reach super nova exploding. which is why I want to lean towards something else, like Anti-matter attracting Matter where as increased density = increased attraction.

It is possible though, but a bit too grandious. He creates an object as dense as the sun, 1,000,000 earths, in order to create a moon?

 

[Mr Hiru]

I see, the reason I ask is because the 2 things we are claiming to be "Science" are now contradicting each other. So it would be good to have a way we could look at something scientific for reference.




I did say in a part of my thread that the object was alot denser than it way, I used the term super saturated. But for the density needed to induce the kinds of gravitation forces that we have seen in CHibaku Tensei would be unreal. The moon itself doesnt have that kind of gravity, neither does the aerth, Black Holes have a density liken with sun's, hence why they are mainly formed when dying stars reach super nova exploding. which is why I want to lean towards something else, like Anti-matter attracting Matter where as increased density = increased attraction.

It is possible though, but a bit too grandious. He creates an object as dense as the sun, 1,000,000 earths, in order to create a moon?

Well, I guess it makes sense to create that 'gravitational field' for some seconds, and then making it disappear or reduce its intensity, not something constant in the time as the Sun.

 

[FearxDeath]

Well, I guess it makes sense to create that 'gravitational field' for some seconds, and then making it disappear or reduce its intensity, not something constant in the time as the Sun.

Makes sense, but the one thing I dislike about the Black Hole Idea is that Black Holes may attract things, but they always attract things, if you reduce the black holes density to where it no longer has a gravitational pull then it destabilizes and falls apart. Almost like if you cool down fire to the point that it is no longer hot then it fizzles out. So the fact that we see the Black Holes floating around for extended periods of time no attracting anything should show that it isnt likely a Black Hole.

I think the 2 main ideas on this are my Anti-Matter Idea, and the 5 Element KKG idea. Mine could be wrong as ill even admit its pretty out their, just something I thought was worth mentioning.

 

[valandil988]

As I mentioned previously in my post if it is the so called "black hole" idea as in he is using gravitational sheer comparable to that on the event horizon of a black hole then he MUST be exerting and equal and opposing field only a tiny distance from his technique. However this is gravity manipulation we are talking about something completely impossible so using physics to describe whats happening is dumb. For all we know he could be creating the field and just manipulating the forces so that the attractive force such a technique would create simply doesn't effect anything other than that which enters the "blackness".

 

[Mr Hiru]

Makes sense, but the one thing I dislike about the Black Hole Idea is that Black Holes may attract things, but they always attract things, if you reduce the black holes density to where it no longer has a gravitational pull then it destabilizes and falls apart. Almost like if you cool down fire to the point that it is no longer hot then it fizzles out. So the fact that we see the Black Holes floating around for extended periods of time no attracting anything should show that it isnt likely a Black Hole.

I think the 2 main ideas on this are my Anti-Matter Idea, and the 5 Element KKG idea. Mine could be wrong as ill even admit its pretty out their, just something I thought was worth mentioning.

I'm not saying that your idea is wrong, even so, I agree. What I say is that the nature of its behaviour could be explained through the creation of a black hole, since Anti-Matter possess mass (what is really different in Anti-Matter is their electric charge).

At least it's all I can say, since the core of Chibaku Tensei seems to be a 'black' sphere (so the gravitational force is strong enough to absorb the light that of course, has mass on each photon).

So feel free to make use of the concept of electric field instead of gravitational field (with some algebra you can prove that electric fields are way more poweful than gravitational field), so in that case the power of Chibaku Tensei could be connected to atoms.

 

[yoshimitsu]

I only read the part pertaining to anti-matter and I don't agree.

anti-matter is as you say, matter whose particles are inversely charged. But they do not attract each other the way you claim. if opposite charges always attract each other, then how do you explain the electron spinning around the proton, and protons so tightly bound together? there are theories for it (weak nuclear force in particular) but very little is known about anti-matter, more specifically the gravitational effects of it interacting with matter.

and on a last note, when matter and anti-matter collide they do not annihilate. they create strings of other particles.

also, matter and anti-matter may co-exist as one; particle/string known as muon. again, nothing definitive can be said about their behaviour (besides that they must always be "white" and although stable they are still very radioactive).

 

[valandil988]

I only read the part pertaining to anti-matter and I don't agree.

anti-matter is as you say, matter whose particles are inversely charged. But they do not attract each other the way you claim. if opposite charges always attract each other, then how do you explain the electron spinning around the proton, and protons so tightly bound together? there are theories for it (weak nuclear force in particular) but very little is known about anti-matter, more specifically the gravitational effects of it interacting with matter.

and on a last note, when matter and anti-matter collide they do not annihilate. they create strings of other particles.

also, matter and anti-matter may co-exist as one; particle/string known as muon. again, nothing definitive can be said about their behaviour (besides that they must always be "white" and although stable they are still very radioactive).

Exactly they are doing experiments right now about how anti-matter effects gravity. I wager heavily on it simply being the same as any other matter under the influence of gravity. No wierd anti-gravity effects. Trust me I WOULD LOVE IT if it did but xd but we as the human race aren't that lucky :dunno:

 

[yoshimitsu]

i don't know why i forgot to add: black holes and anti-matter are not related. if they turn out to be, then i will be wrong but for now there is no physical evidence that black holes are made of anti-matter.

and the theories involving dark matter are a joke. dark matter is where it's said that the laws physics break down. that's because dark matter is a joke and invented with the precise amounts of energy it needed to be for GUTs to make sense.

 

[FearxDeath]

As I mentioned previously in my post if it is the so called "black hole" idea as in he is using gravitational sheer comparable to that on the event horizon of a black hole then he MUST be exerting and equal and opposing field only a tiny distance from his technique. However this is gravity manipulation we are talking about something completely impossible so using physics to describe whats happening is dumb. For all we know he could be creating the field and just manipulating the forces so that the attractive force such a technique would create simply doesn't effect anything other than that which enters the "blackness".

I see, so your saying it is a Black Hole but does not have to follow reality because its a manga after all and manga's don't necessarily follow reality. If that's your defense then we are finished here. If not then elaborate as I may have misunderstood.

I'm not saying that your idea is wrong, even so, I agree. What I say is that the nature of its behaviour could be explained through the creation of a black hole, since Anti-Matter possess mass (what is really different in Anti-Matter is their electric charge).

At least it's all I can say, since the core of Chibaku Tensei seems to be a 'black' sphere (so the gravitational force is strong enough to absorb the light that of course, has mass on each photon).

So feel free to make use of the concept of electric field instead of gravitational field (with some algebra you can prove that electric fields are way more poweful than gravitational field), so in that case the power of Chibaku Tensei could be connected to atoms.

1) Well said

 

[osba]

sooo... when is this "tomorrow" you speak of?

 

[valandil988]

I see, so your saying it is a Black Hole but does not have to follow reality because its a manga after all and manga's don't necessarily follow reality. If that's your defense then we are finished here. If not then elaborate as I may have misunderstood.

Yes you can apply logic to gravity manipulation as much as we want but its still "GRAVITY MANIPULATION" Ie we don't know the true limits the author put upon this power yet. It may not in fact be gravity manipulation but force manipulation. We simply don't know. So Obito could be creating a sheering force which doesn't allow light to escape much like the event horizon in a black hole, but the logical side effect of you know destroying the entire planet may be stopped just as easily by that same force manipulation. Obviously his enemies are not pushed away from his black chakra technique which would be something we would see if he was creating a "conventional" counter force to his own technique to preserve the planet. Ergo if this idea is correct he must somehow confine the effect to a very small area. Ergo force or space manipulation, no more logical than gravity manipulation. At least chakra is somewhat explained within the manga, how Edo tensei and the Deva path and the rinnegan work are not.

Its possible that the rinnegan's true power is not to effect gravity on objects but a form of space-time manipulation. It would make more sense for the Rinnegan to have control over a volume of space not just the gravitation forces, manipulating space creates gravitational forces.

It may even be an extension on Kamui. Now theres and idea that might make more sense. Kamui fits into the sphere of space-time manipulation, now if the Rinnegan manipulates Space-time to create gravitation forces then it fits nicely into the Rinnegans sphere of capability. It would also make sense for Obito to use an advanced variant of his signature technique not an entirely new one we are not familiar with.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Yes you can apply logic to gravity manipulation as much as we want but its still "GRAVITY MANIPULATION" Ie we don't know the true limits the author put upon this power yet. It may not in fact be gravity manipulation but force manipulation. We simply don't know. So Obito could be creating a sheering force which doesn't allow light to escape much like the event horizon in a black hole, but the logical side effect of you know destroying the entire planet may be stopped just as easily by that same force manipulation. Obviously his enemies are not pushed away from his black chakra technique which would be something we would see if he was creating a "conventional" counter force to his own technique to preserve the planet. Ergo if this idea is correct he must somehow confine the effect to a very small area. Ergo force or space manipulation, no more logical than gravity manipulation. At least chakra is somewhat explained within the manga, how Edo tensei and the Deva path and the rinnegan work are not.

Its possible that the rinnegan's true power is not to effect gravity on objects but a form of space-time manipulation. It would make more sense for the Rinnegan to have control over a volume of space not just the gravitation forces, manipulating space creates gravitational forces.

It may even be an extension on Kamui. Now theres and idea that might make more sense.

Space and Mass sir. Gravitational forces can't appear just like that over a volume, they need a core object with some density that creates the attractional field. The space would only limit the range of this force field.

That's why this technique is not ordinary, if it were only space, even Minato could do this since he can manipulate space and time. This need the 'creation' of a tangible high-density mass that attracts other things, and as far as we know, the creation jutsu belongs only to those who achieved the Rinnegan (the Sage included).

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[valandil988]

Space and Mass sir. Gravitational forces can't appear just like that over a volume, they need a core object with some density that creates the attractional field. The space would only limit the range of this force field.

That's why this technique is not ordinary, if it were only space, even Minato could do this since he can manipulate space and time. This need the 'creation' of a tangible high-density mass that attracts other things, and as far as we know, the creation jutsu belongs only to those who achieved the Rinnegan (the Sage included).

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Yes I know that, but I've never seen the Deva path use high density objects like pocket black holes to affect his forces or jutsu. And Chibaku tensei isn't a super dense object created from nothing, if it was when pain lost control of it, it would have devoured the world lol.

So how exactly does pain and Madara use Shinra tensei? Manipulating space around their own bodies, or manipulating their mass? If you assume that it just means that you can't have jutsu like Chibaku Tensei. Pain created that jutsu from NOTHING IE it had no super dense body, it was pure space-time manipulation. Minato can't do that because its not the same kind of space-time manipulation. Minato seems to use finesse, and wormholes lol. The Deva path seems to bludgeon space-time into compliance, and it can be done at a distance from his body, like when he used that enormous rock to interrupt Naruto's Bijudama during their battle.

When Naruto resists Pains Shinra Tensei the force is returned back on him in a strange application of Newton's 3rd law. How that factors in on how this manipulation of gravity is affected is puzzling. To creating a repelling force on an object travelling towards you, you must make youself "Lighter" so to speak. More like you create an anti gravity effect outwards, your mass must become negative so to speak. Forcing any objects away. When Naruto resisted Tendo was thrown a massive distance. An interesting application of newtons gravitational laws. Not entirely sure that that interpretation is correct however.

However saying that mass is required to enforce these effects defies Chibaku Tensei as I have said previously. I don't see whats so wrong about assuming that it is direct space-time manipulation rather than mass manipulation. Both are equally absurd lol.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Yes I know that, but I've never seen the Deva path use high density objects like pocket black holes to affect his forces or jutsu. And Chibaku tensei isn't a super dense object created from nothing, if it was when pain lost control of it, it would have devoured the world lol.

So how exactly does pain and Madara use Shinra tensei? Manipulating space around their own bodies, or manipulating their mass? If you assume that it just means that you can't have jutsu like Chibaku Tensei. Pain created that jutsu from NOTHING IE it had no super dense body, it was pure space-time manipulation. Minato can't do that because its not the same kind of space-time manipulation. Minato seems to use finesse, and wormholes lol. The Deva path seems to bludgeon space-time into compliance, and it can be done at a distance from his body, like when he used that enormous rock to interrupt Naruto's Bijudama during their battle.

When Naruto resists Pains Shinra Tensei the force is returned back on him in a strange application of Newton's 3rd law. How that factors in on how this manipulation of gravity is affected is puzzling. To creating a repelling force on an object travelling towards you, you must make youself "Lighter" so to speak. More like you create an anti gravity effect outwards, your mass must become negative so to speak. Forcing any objects away. When Naruto resisted Tendo was thrown a massive distance. An interesting application of newtons gravitational laws. Not entirely sure that that interpretation is correct however.

However saying that mass is required to enforce these effects defies Chibaku Tensei as I have said previously. I don't see whats so wrong about assuming that it is direct space-time manipulation rather than mass manipulation. Both are equally absurd lol.

Well, then I can just leave you at that with this: As far as we have been taught, space-time jutsus can't attract objects, they can only transport them through other dimensions.

Chibaku Tensei can't be a space-time jutsu only because the rocks it attracts were colliding, these objects never went to other dimension, and furthermore, they were being transported in the real world.

This said, I hate to disagree with what you said about Shinra Tensei... Shinra Tensei is not a jutsu where the user manipulates the space around the user, it's only an

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where the user turns itself into the core object that changes its physical properties to repel everything on the way. Oh yeah, it's possible for the user to change its mass if they have enough mastery over the earth element, Oonoki knows how to. It wouldn't be strange if a Rinnegan user can go even further.

 

[valandil988]

Well, then I can just leave you at that with this: As far as we have been taught, space-time jutsus can't attract objects, they can only transport them through other dimensions.

Chibaku Tensei can't be a space-time jutsu only because the rocks it attracts were colliding, these objects never went to other dimension, and furthermore, they were being transported in the real world.

This said, I hate to disagree with what you said about Shinra Tensei... Shinra Tensei is not a jutsu where the user manipulates the space around the user, it's only an

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where the user turns itself into the core object that changes its physical properties to repel everything on the way. Oh yeah, it's possible for the user to change its mass if they have enough mastery over the earth element, Oonoki knows how to. It wouldn't be strange if a Rinnegan user can go even further.

Possible, yes space-time jutsu seem to be solely used for transporting objects. But by definition they are affecting massive changes and I mean MASSIVE changes in space-time to create wormholes etc. Such effects if taken literally would create massive sheering effects in gravity. If you effect space-time you effect gravity its that simple. Mass effects space and space creates a force on an object within a field around the mass. If you cut out the middle man and produce a space-time effect, by manually warping space directly without a mass then you get an effect very similar to Chibaku Tensei.

I didnt really understant what you ment about Chibaku Tensei,

"Chibaku Tensei can't be a space-time jutsu only because the rocks it attracts were colliding, these objects never went to other dimension, and furthermore, they were being transported in the real world."

You seem to have ignored what I said on the subject. Pain creates a central core of gravitation from nothing which he can manipulate at a distance. It contains no super dense core black hole or something equally exotic. It is simply space-time manipulation. He is warping space time to the point where a small volume in space exhibits the same effects of an event horizon in a black hole, IE its completely black. You seem to believe that space-time ninjutsu is limited to transporting objects, this is a fallacy, if you can manipulate space-time using seals, which use no obvious mass then you could manipulate space-time in other ways. IE creating forces like Shinra tensei would be easy by comparison. Manipulating space-time directly is probably what the Rinnegan allows the user to do.

Space-time manipulation via seals is probably very limited compared to the Rinnegan.

I considered it, if you used the Rinnegan to lighten yourself to the level at which someone could actually do a Shinra tensei, IE you make your mass negative to create "anti-gravity", they would likely vaporize their outer layers. Their molecules would push each other away from each other. IE the outer layers of the body would be forced away from the main body. Sounds gruesome really. You might skin yourself alive D:

 

[Mr Hiru]

Possible, yes space-time jutsu seem to be solely used for transporting objects. But by definition they are affecting massive changes and I mean MASSIVE changes in space-time to create wormholes etc. Such effects if taken literally would create massive sheering effects in gravity. If you effect space-time you effect gravity its that simple. Mass effects space and space creates a force on an object within a field around the mass. If you cut out the middle man and produce a space-time effect, by manually warping space directly without a mass then you get an effect very similar to Chibaku Tensei.

I didnt really understant what you ment about Chibaku Tensei,

"Chibaku Tensei can't be a space-time jutsu only because the rocks it attracts were colliding, these objects never went to other dimension, and furthermore, they were being transported in the real world."

You seem to have ignored what I said on the subject. Pain creates a central core of gravitation from nothing which he can manipulate at a distance. It contains no super dense core black hole or something equally exotic. It is simply space-time manipulation. He is warping space time to the point where a small volume in space exhibits the same effects of an event horizon in a black hole, IE its completely black. You seem to believe that space-time ninjutsu is limited to transporting objects, this is a fallacy, if you can manipulate space-time using seals, which use no obvious mass then you could manipulate space-time in other ways. IE creating forces like Shinra tensei would be easy by comparison. Manipulating space-time directly is probably what the Rinnegan allows the user to do.

Space-time manipulation via seals is probably very limited compared to the Rinnegan.

I considered it, if you used the Rinnegan to lighten yourself to the level at which someone could actually do a Shinra tensei, IE you make your mass negative to create "anti-gravity", they would likely vaporize their outer layers. Their molecules would push each other away from each other. IE the outer layers of the body would be forced away from the main body. Sounds gruesome really. You might skin yourself alive D:

Look at that bolded sentence, and look at this...

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Do you really think that Chibaku Tensei only creates a gravitation field from an empty core? Are you sure that technique is not a core that was created with a variation of this jutsu that of course, is part of the Yin Yang Release techniques arsenal inside the Rinnegan?

I believe it is just like this, since every time this jutsu is used in one or other way, the user seem to sacrifice lifeforce or a piece of itself (look at Izanagi, Izanami... both of them sacrifices the user's eye. Chibaku Tensei, Rinne Tensei... both of these techniques seem to sacrifice enough chakra to suck lifeforce).

 

[boshans]

I see, the reason I ask is because the 2 things we are claiming to be "Science" are now contradicting each other. So it would be good to have a way we could look at something scientific for reference.

I would like to elaborate a little bit. I don't think you're wrong or anything, just trying to hypothesize together to maybe figure out how the thing works. I also didn't mean I was completely coming up with everything I said. How an antimatter "bomb" explodes I was referring to a science show I recently saw, so that part I am fairly sure is based on real science fact. Basically, as you know, if antimatter comes into contact with matter, they annihilate each other. I didn't really mean it blows up like an atomic bomb, just the devastation would be similar, and you would need far less antimatter to get the same amount of devastation with an amount of uranium. Unless you detonate an antimatter bomb in space or something, the gamma rays released from it would superheat the air in a wide vicinity, so everything around it would immediately be on fire, even the air itself would dramatically increase in temperature so it'll be like an oven. Since it has this superheating effect, it basically condenses the air also and you would get a shockwave like an atomic bomb also. Not to mention everything around it would die from the intense radiation it would release also. The attraction part I am not sure about. I mean, antimatter is just pretty much oppositely charged matter, it doesn't have more mass or anything. Mass is what causes attraction, but it isn't heavier than normal matter, and normal matter doesn't attract, or have gravity(obviously I mean smaller, earthly objects, matter with massive mass have gravity, like planets.) I mean if you think about it, air itself is matter, so they should explode as soon as obito makes them if it's antimatter, since they are in the air, and that would mean antimatter is touching matter. Unless of course obito is creating a vacuum around it, or using magnetism to suspend it inside of those black balls, that way it isn't touching the air either. That's basically how we store real antimatter, suspend it in a magnetic field. Maybe that's how the black balls he attached to minato works. He suspended antimatter inside the black ball, and after he attaches it/shoots it away, he has the magnetic field he created on a timer or something that dissipates the field after a time, letting the antimatter touch the air/matter, thereby blowing up. That might explain that version, the dust release type black balls I don't have a good explanation for.