[Discussion] Existence of a God.

[KuroKaze]

I dunno if this has been said already, but I would state my opinion on this matter anyway.

Let me answer your question by asking a more fundamental question. What would be left of you once I take the 'GOD' or your 'RELIGION' from you. The answer lies in how 'One defines his/her GOD'.

Lets take two extreme cases of people that may exist:-

Type-1

People who 'realizes' the fact that there are things in our universe, that are not 'yet' ("yet" being the key word here) explained by science but they 'can be'. So what is 'Religion' for them? The answer is moral/ethics. You say 'moral' , they say 'religion'. And the 'GOD' is their own conscience. They are simply 'naming' it as religion, that's all.

A higher version of this phenomenon is 'believing in a supreme power'. (which would make one a hypocrite, coz he/she knows there ain't any in the first place.). But they do. And the reason for doing so is tied to a very fundamental nature of humans. It is the "Fear of not being watched over/controlled". And this is so deeply rooted to our nature that, we simply can't get rid of it. And those who 'have' got rid of it are known as 'Atheists'.

So, what would remain if we took away their religion form them? The answer is still 'morals/ethics'. They can still live their life normally, the only difference would be, now they will not have a 'synonym' for 'morals/ethics' that's all.

Type-2

Those who deny the very concept of 'evolution' (and hence all the scientific facts before them) all together and 'think' that they would be 'hopeless', If one takes away their 'GOD' from them. Because you see, that's all they have(at least they think they have). The dependency on a supreme entity called GOD is so high that it's reflected in a both good and BAD way in their lives and other's. The concept of 'religion' for them is 'MUCH MORE' than 'morals/ethics'.

So, what would remain if we took away their religion from them? "NOTHING"(according to them). The world will come to an end for them.

This is my opinion on why/in what way, people believe in a supreme entity called 'GOD'. And most of the people lie somewhere between these two types and some on two extremes.

Bottom line- It doesn't matter 'what' you believe in, but the real question is:- 'Are your beliefs somehow compromising/affecting the rights/beliefs of others ?', If not, then no one 'should' care.

 

[vickmontero]

Fools think in their heart that there is no God!!! Check to see if you are the fool

 

[Punk Hazard]

Asking where god came from makes no sense. It just creates an endless cycle.

It's also a very convenient excuse for some of you to avoid your own hypocrisy. ¨Humans popping out of nowhere? Are you dumb? We were made by the magician that popped out of nowhere, clearly.¨

 

[Donald Trump]

Let me break this down for you without a wallie.

You go into a restaurant for the first time and order something new. It looks good, so you believe it tastes good. You base that off of its appearance. Turns it it was good. Yay!

You see, belief in a spiritual deity of any kind is just based off of how you were raised and how you think. I believe in god because I read the bible, and I know that good things happen because of good people and god. There is no questioning it, there is no 3,000 word essay on it.

Belief is belief. It's simply what you go with without question.

 

[a banned cartoon]

At bold, it doesn't mean God exists either. It's like I'm saying that the core of Jupiter is filled with sharingans. You can't disprove me. Unless theists show a valid argument and have evidence it's considered invalid.
@green what do you mean by purpose ?

The arguments everyone will present will just become a never ending loop. Science can prove God doesn't exists, but we haven't proved he doesn't yet. So truthfully nobody knows.

 

[Made in Heaven]

It's also a very convenient excuse for some of you to avoid your own hypocrisy. ¨Humans popping out of nowhere? Are you dumb? We were made by the magician that popped out of nowhere, clearly.¨

Except humans had a beginning and so did the universe. There would need to be an uncaused cause at some point.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Except humans had a beginning and so did the universe. There would need to be an uncaused cause at some point.

And God doesn't have a beginning? Why does it make sense that God had no beginning but the universe didn't?

 

[Made in Heaven]

And God doesn't have a beginning? Why does it make sense that God had no beginning but the universe didn't?

Because there needs to be a cause that had no beginning for things to start going into motion to begin w/.

 

[P3ĮÑ]

God exists

ah the burden of proof would be upon me, right? well I bring to you the most effective proof.

He has helped this thread gain 14 pages and is keeping NB alive

You must be registered for see images

 

[Punk Hazard]

Because there needs to be a cause that had no beginning for things to start going into motion to begin w/.

And why can't the Big Bang be that cause?

 

[Insidious Smile]

That's true but people don't have the right to discriminate against others because you think your belief is "right".


Why would theists need a religion to have purpose ? XD

I'm not homophobic but you must be gay. I heard that in the bible it is written that God hates homosexuals, which explains this hate thread and your distorted Logic.

 

[Fodder#3]

omg you simpletons.

1. In a dictatorship, you have to watch what you say. Your freedom of speech is restricted. Criticising a dictator and a religion could have the same repercussions for an individual as they're both seen as absolute. Try to read through the lines so you get the point, please. You talk about Hitler's economic achievements and forget to mention that Hitler drove millions of people to their death and controlled many young men as puppets.

Religion is just an expansionist, political tool. Both Islam and Christianity were tools to breed a standardised, collective mass of the same degenerate views as to control that mass of people. The first few popes in biblical times waged wars to conquer land and estates and nowadays the Vatican owns enormous amounts of estates. And how do you confuse the weak-minded into obedience? Use a core of truth in a beautiful lie so that they'll always come back to that small truth whenever they question their belief. It's a well-thought outpreposteroussloop that will perpetuate the same degenerate thinking. I take religious scripts very seriously as there are scientific truths and astrology based stories found in it. However, I do not condone the restriction of the mind by religious and cultural stupidity. (you prob didn't get any of that, did you)

2. what?.. way to stupify the argument. Lol Anywho, I said what I said because when religious people want to defend their belief, they get ''offended'' which goes back to the 'holy' scenario. Instead of thinking up a legitimate argument, they want to shut critics up by saying they're offended. I never said I'd force anyone to shut up, I said ''they should be silent if they have no argument''. Way to go to twist my words in your benefit. Here, you see it clearly in the eyes of a christian and muslim how they want to hang this woman who dares criticise their illogical views:

You must be registered for see links

3. And you weren't listening. I shared with you the real underlying meaning of the word 'holy'. Not the immediate description from the dictionary. Religion has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call 'sacred or 'holy'. What it means is; Here is an idea or notion that you're not allowed to say anything bad about. You're just not. why? Because you're not. Get it?

4. I don't need to look up Prophet Muhammad's words. I have morals of my own and don't need an ancient book to tell me how to be a good person. Also, muslims keep saying Islam is peaceful. Let me respond to that. First of all, I always defend muslims whenever they're called terrorists. I hate that. The imperialists from the wests have terrorised more muslims than the other way around. You'll always find me backing up the muslims on that one. On the other hand, Islam is not peaceful. period. It is the individuals that call themselves muslims who are either peaceful or hostile. Most are peaceful. At its heart, it is not peaceful. Like I said, it's a tool for expansionist, political goals. Go look at the beginning of Islam around the 7th century and how it spread. We as a species should go back to judging a person by his individual traits, and stop seeing his religion as part of his nature. You don't represent Islam. History represents it. You could follow the Qu'ran in a way I would. I simply take from it what seems logical and elevates my thinking, and try to apply it into my everyday habits. Other than that, it's completely useless other than a means to control.

1. Please read what you stated. When did we talk about freedom? Werent we talking about national interest? I don't understand you man. You first talk about how Dictatorship is a bad form of government; I porvide an explanation to why dictatorship isn't a bad form. Then you start to talk about freedom of speech? I don't get it. Anyways, you are right, as you give up freedoms; you gain security. That's how governments work. Whether it be democracy or dictatorship. Like I said before, you can get much more done with dictatorship against democracy. And there are benefits of democracy as well; you generally have more freedoms. Here let me give you an example: In a democracy, the party in power has to go through debates and votes in order for a bill to be passed down. Which is a very slow process. So for the party to get something done; it tales time for it to happen. Its possible that it may be thw only thing they might be able to achive in their elected period of time. As for a dictatorship, the person/group in power can get stuff done much quicker. Because the ultimate decision depends on the person/group in power. Most dictatorship's debate about it as well; which stalins government use to do as well. But it would ultimately be up to the person/group in power. To build a bridge, it could take years for the process to be approved in an democracy; but in dictatorship it can take a single day to get it approved.

There are times when even democracies will become temperarly a dictatorship; so it can control and give security to the nation. Once again its all about National Interest, whether it be democratic countries or dictatorships.

Also, Hitler got his country out of its great depersion and hyperinflation within 4 years. That was before he went all psycho.


2. Thank you for finally explaining what you are trying to say. Dont use the word 'holy'. Holy is an adjective. Your misusing it and misinterpreting it. Just take out the word holy from your sentence and it will make perfect sense. From the perspective of being someone fron the faith and religion of Islam, it is wrong for her/him to be hanged. Since in the Quran, we cannot judge these people. God will judge them. Now you talk about how people who cannot argue should silence down and not use the 'offended' term to imply negativity. Yoy are correct, religions that 'suppose' they have the right God, should indeed be able to win arguments easily; well because its 'God'. But as you see Islam has not lost anysort of argument. It has not been contradictory. Please show me where somone[religious figure of islam] has not been able to argue that they pull out the 'offended' card. I'm here to speak behave of my religion; not others. So whatever I say, please don't think I'm here defending all religions; that be preposterous. I don't believe other religions out there are correct and these other religions have a hell load of contradiction-interpolations.

3. I don't know what you are talking about.

4. Please provide proof when you claim my religion to be not peacefull. Enlighten me. Also how is a means of control? Isnt Governments a means of control as well? Do you support anarchy? When was it that control is a bad thing. Control is good. You dont want chaos; you want control. Thats why the police exist. Thats why laws exist. Thats why judges exist. Its for control. I cant think of a society where no control exist. Sorry bud, but you live in a society/world where control is a need

 

[ministerC4]

I'm not homophobic but you must be gay. I heard that in the bible it is written that God hates homosexuals, which explains this hate thread and your distorted Logic.

Gays are born gay(Debatable)... Why God hates them?
Didn't God make them like that?

So anyone wanna branch this discussion into a side discussion that is intended to give one bash rights towards God?

 

[Fodder#3]

And God doesn't have a beginning? Why does it make sense that God had no beginning but the universe didn't?

The question 'who created god' is a infinite question that will never end. It creates a never-ending loop. Its a illogical and irrational question.


That its the only logical answer to this is that God had no beginning and has no end. He isn't limited by time and space. In the Quran, God states that God has no beginning nor end. He is not like God's creation. In order for someone to claim something in this physical universe, one must observe creation to hypothesize about creation. If the creator isn't like his creation; then how can you hypothesize about the creator when you use creation to create an hypothesis. To observe and to create a hypothesis about something, that thing must be related to whatever you observed. In math we call this, out of domain. Or does not exist within the domain. In science, people must observe[use the five senses] and they create theories about things that is related to what they observed. You cant apply that theory to something that is completely not related to something.

Also let me give you an scenario: you had a task of moving a table, and you knew you could ask an infinite number of people to do it for you. so you would ask someone else to move it for you. that person would ask someone else to move it. that person would then ask someone else to move it. each person would ask someone else and it would carry on forever. at the end the table would never be moved.

Similarly, the fact that there is a creation today, is proof that theres only One Creator. If there was a creator of the creator, then each creator would create another creator, who creates another creator, who would create another creator... and it would carry on forever. there would never be a creation. So because there is a creation that is proof that there is only One Creator who by default must be uncreated.

 

[Insidious Smile]

Gays are born gay(Debatable)... Why God hates them?
Didn't God make them like that?

So anyone wanna branch this discussion into a side discussion that is intended to give one bash rights towards God?

God does not hate people that are gay, regardless of what may be written in the bible.

Who said God made them gay? I don't think homosexuals are born attracted to the same ***.

 

[ministerC4]

God does not hate people that are gay, regardless of what may be written in the bible.

Who said God made them gay? I don't think homosexuals are born attracted to the same ***.

Me either somewhat.
I'm just trying to kill my boredom, as far as I'm concerned being gay is a lesser sin than cursing. Considering being gay isn't in the commandments. Wondering who wants to go there though.
Though I believe gays are made, and born.

 

[Insidious Smile]

another one: ''I think, therefore I am not. Only when the mind is empty, I am.''

Referring to the separation of the whole or the human ego.

Do you even know what that means?

 

[YowYan]

1. Please read what you stated. When did we talk about freedom? Werent we talking about national interest? I don't understand you man. You first talk about how Dictatorship is a bad form of government; I porvide an explanation to why dictatorship isn't a bad form. Then you start to talk about freedom of speech? I don't get it. Anyways, you are right, as you give up freedoms; you gain security. That's how governments work. Whether it be democracy or dictatorship. Like I said before, you can get much more done with dictatorship against democracy. And there are benefits of democracy as well; you generally have more freedoms. Here let me give you an example: In a democracy, the party in power has to go through debates and votes in order for a bill to be passed down. Which is a very slow process. So for the party to get something done; it tales time for it to happen. Its possible that it may be thw only thing they might be able to achive in their elected period of time. As for a dictatorship, the person/group in power can get stuff done much quicker. Because the ultimate decision depends on the person/group in power. Most dictatorship's debate about it as well; which stalins government use to do as well. But it would ultimately be up to the person/group in power. To build a bridge, it could take years for the process to be approved in an democracy; but in dictatorship it can take a single day to get it approved.

There are times when even democracies will become temperarly a dictatorship; so it can control and give security to the nation. Once again its all about National Interest, whether it be democratic countries or dictatorships.

Also, Hitler got his country out of its great depersion and hyperinflation within 4 years. That was before he went all psycho.


2. Thank you for finally explaining what you are trying to say. Dont use the word 'holy'. Holy is an adjective. Your misusing it and misinterpreting it. Just take out the word holy from your sentence and it will make perfect sense. From the perspective of being someone fron the faith and religion of Islam, it is wrong for her/him to be hanged. Since in the Quran, we cannot judge these people. God will judge them. Now you talk about how people who cannot argue should silence down and not use the 'offended' term to imply negativity. Yoy are correct, religions that 'suppose' they have the right God, should indeed be able to win arguments easily; well because its 'God'. But as you see Islam has not lost anysort of argument. It has not been contradictory. Please show me where somone[religious figure of islam] has not been able to argue that they pull out the 'offended' card. I'm here to speak behave of my religion; not others. So whatever I say, please don't think I'm here defending all religions; that be preposterous. I don't believe other religions out there are correct and these other religions have a hell load of contradiction-interpolations.

3. I don't know what you are talking about.

4. Please provide proof when you claim my religion to be not peacefull. Enlighten me. Also how is a means of control? Isnt Governments a means of control as well? Do you support anarchy? When was it that control is a bad thing. Control is good. You dont want chaos; you want control. Thats why the police exist. Thats why laws exist. Thats why judges exist. Its for control. I cant think of a society where no control exist. Sorry bud, but you live in a society/world where control is a need

1. Freedom of speech and provocation of thought was the issue to begin with. Dictatorship was just an example I used to clarify something but clearly it didn't get through your skull. here's a little saying by JFK; No nation can be free and ignorant at the same time. And to correct you; As you give up your freedoms/civil rights, you gain a fake sense of security and end up in a monetary system in which the wealth is distributed from the poor to the rich. But you're right about the fact that there will always be need of some form of government. Any who, it wasn't even my intention to go into forms of governing. I only stated that organised religion are also tools to gain and stabilise power. Which is a fact.

2. I will use the word 'holy' and my before-mentioned description of it is the perfect break down of its actual meaning. But you won't ever accept that because it goes against your belief. Yes or no?
So you're basically saying Islam is the truth and all other organised religions aren't. Right. lmao.
No religious person ever upheld a rational, factual argument ever. Some decent moral philosophies wrapped around religious stories, sure. But an actual irrefutable argument? There are none.

3. Use your brain and you will.

4. Women are property, LGBT-people are demonised, critics are threatened, government is forced to upheld religious laws, etc. Anything else?

Like I said before; Yes, we will always be in need of some form of governance, but religion will only stupify the masses and that way, we'll be more easy to control. Again..JFK: No nation can be free and ignorant at the same time.

Do you even know what that means?

Yes, I do. Do you? Lol

 

[Insidious Smile]

Me either somewhat.
I'm just trying to kill my boredom, as far as I'm concerned being gay is a lesser sin than cursing. Considering being gay isn't in the commandments. Wondering who wants to go there though.
Though I believe gays are made, and born.

You wrote " me either " implying that you partially believe that gay people are born gay, but then you write " I believe gays are made, and born " implying that you believe that gay people are born gay. So, do you believe people are born gay or not? Make up your mind.

Also, on my previous post I meant to write " Homosexuals are not born gay ".

Yes, I do. Do you? Lol

I know what the sentence means.

Do tell what meaning you make out of that sentence because, honestly, I want to know.

 

[YowYan]

You wrote " me either " implying that you partially believe that gay people are born gay, but then you write " I believe gays are made, and born " implying that you believe that gay people are born gay. So, do you believe people are born gay or not? Make up your mind.

Also, on my previous post I meant to write " Homosexuals are not born gay ".



I know what the sentence means.

Do tell what meaning you make out of that sentence because, honestly, I want to know.

You can just ask straightforward if you're clueless on it's meaning.

It's a spiritual saying which refers to the collective consciousness, maybe the field of noetics. Revolving all around the mind's eye.
What separates an individual from anyone else (aside of their physical manifestation) is their ego. So, that oneness is supposedly a vast pool of consciousness (you could compare it to God) and its something you tap into/tune into. And supposedly, according to spiritual teachings, that ego can be tamed to relive the connection between you, nature and other living beings. (meditation or DMT substances)

So, according to that quote; ''I think, therefore I am not. Only when the mind is empty, I am'', an individual will only truly be awake when the mind is empty.