Exiguity.

[Thundercles]

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This is becoming tedious and pointless. Cerebral wise dereliction comprehending the notions of the more recent phylogenetic displays of the Mangekyō and its illustrative arbitrary attributes that permit Sasuke to utilize Susanoo. So I must ask you, what is Tsukuyomi to you? ​

Tsukuyomi is the MS genjutsu that is caste by MS users. It is also a part of the req that is NEEDED to attain Susano'o.

[/SPOILER]​

Ok, this shows that Sasuke uses Blaze Release, HIS special MS tech, ie, Kamui, KA, Itachi's Tsukuyomi, nothing more. We see that Obito casts Kamui with his right eye. He can also use that right eye to cast Tsukuyomi, per Road to Ninja AND seeing as he intends on acting as jinky and would need that tech to perform "Infinite Tsukuyomi".

[/INDENT]

My stance is logical explaining and agreeing that Enton: Kagutsuchi is Sasuke's other Mangekyō ability, however disagrees that prior to the attainment of the Eien no Mangekyō Sharingan, that Sasuke possessed Tsukuyomi. Moreover, the presumed functions of Obito's ocular powers are still simply Jikūkan Idō and Kamui. Obito, like Shisui apparently have an abundance of talent situated in their powers, but the dynamics are performed differently.

The Ten-Tails also has powers that have not yet been completely understood, due to not being being witness; which may seemingly allow it to employ ocular jutsu's.​

[/QUOTE]

Firstly, you guys are ignoring the evidence FOR Sasuke having Tsukuyomi. It only makes sense. Secondly, Obito has Kamui and Tsukuyomi. You cannot argue this. Finally, your statements about the Juubi may be accurate, you CANNOT assume that they give the user Tsukuyomi or certain techs.

 

[Thundercles]

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...Per Road to Ninja? That isn't even canonical material. How can I take you seriously when you use shit like that in your argument(s). Hot dayum.

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I was merely using it as one part of my example. The other part is completely canonical and logical. Do not dissect my statement and then attempt to discredit me. Take in the WHOLE statement. Also, how can I take you seriously when you ignore databook facts and obvious symptoms/indications of Sasuke's ability to use Tsukuyomi.

 

[-Logic-]

I was merely using it as one part of my example. The other part is completely canonical and logical. Do not dissect my statement and then attempt to discredit me. Take in the WHOLE statement. Also, how can I take you seriously when you ignore databook facts and obvious symptoms/indications of Sasuke's ability to use Tsukuyomi.

Databook facts...huh. Pretty sure one of the databooks says that Orochimaru is sealed in Itachi's sealing gourd in an eternal Genjutsu, forever.

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That's pretty, uh, factual, eh?

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The databook as a source of information ultimately becomes irrelevant and insignificant...as it presently has in this particular situation; it's out-dated.​

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[Varrah]

Firstly, you guys are ignoring the evidence FOR Sasuke having Tsukuyomi. It only makes sense. Secondly, Obito has Kamui and Tsukuyomi. You cannot argue this. Finally, your statements about the Juubi may be accurate, you CANNOT assume that they give the user Tsukuyomi or certain techs.

It isn't ignore, I just felt that I did a reasonably job at explaining the prerequisites for Susanoo, and how those prerequisites were altered; hence not regurgitated them.

Eh, what? Claiming Obito having Tsukuyomi is easily argued by the manga and his portrayal itself. That particular burden lies within Masashi displaying Obito's ability to exercise the technique. It argues itself. Wrong, I can assume that the Ten-Tails enables its user to wield Tsukuyomi, but is it an accurate assumption? Will it come to pass is the question that should be asked. ​

 

[Thundercles]

Databook facts...huh. Pretty sure one of the databooks says that Orochimaru is sealed in Itachi's sealing gourd in an eternal Genjutsu, forever.

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That's pretty, uh, factual, eh?

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The databook as a source of information ultimately becomes irrelevant and insignificant...as it presently has in this particular situation; it's out-dated.​

​

Sigh, it will not reveal future plot secrets. Just like it wouldn't reveal Obito as Tobi. It is contextual. If you are going to fault the Databook for a plot point, then you are failing to get the point of the Databook. It is the most current book of info at that point. But the requirements, through the manga or the anime, haven't changed and you CANNOT prove it.

 

[Thundercles]

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It isn't ignore, I just felt that I did a reasonably job at explaining the prerequisites for Susanoo, and how those prerequisites were altered; hence not regurgitated them.

Eh, what? Claiming Obito having Tsukuyomi is easily argued by the manga and his portrayal itself. That particular burden lies within Masashi displaying Obito's ability to exercise the technique. It argues itself. Wrong, I can assume that the Ten-Tails enables its user to wield Tsukuyomi, but is it an accurate assumption? Will it come to pass is the question that should be asked. ​

The pre reqs for Susano'o? What? Obtaining both eyes? Yes, you are correct. You do need both eyes to unlock Susano'o. But you and Logic have failed to see the other side of that req, which is clearly defined in the Databook; you need Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. So, both pre reqs are indeed needed. Both eyes (1 eye for Amaterasu and the other for Tsukuyomi) are needed for Susano'o. Also, it is heavily implied, if not indirectly stated, that Obito CAN use Tsukuyomi. If he plans on becoming the Juubi's jinky, then he would need to have access for the tech. And you simply cannot say that the Juubi gives them any ocular abilities until it is stated. Otherwise, that is pure conjecture.

 

[-Logic-]

Sigh, it will not reveal future plot secrets. Just like it wouldn't reveal Obito as Tobi. It is contextual. If you are going to fault the Databook for a plot point, then you are failing to get the point of the Databook. It is the most current book of info at that point. But the requirements, through the manga or the anime, haven't changed and you CANNOT prove it.

Exactly. At that point. The prerequisites were more than likely referring to Itachi's specific requirements for his Susano'o; not to all of them. This can be backed up by the fact that later in the Manga, Sasuke states you need the Double Mangekyō to Awaken Susano'o...

The pre reqs for Susano'o? What? Obtaining both eyes? Yes, you are correct. You do need both eyes to unlock Susano'o. But you and Logic have failed to see the other side of that req, which is clearly defined in the Databook; you need Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. So, both pre reqs are indeed needed. Both eyes (1 eye for Amaterasu and the other for Tsukuyomi) are needed for Susano'o. Also, it is heavily implied, if not indirectly stated, that Obito CAN use Tsukuyomi. If he plans on becoming the Juubi's jinky, then he would need to have access for the tech. And you simply cannot say that the Juubi gives them any ocular abilities until it is stated. Otherwise, that is pure conjecture.

The Jūbi is said to be the progenitor of everything that exists, thus, it's not a stretch to say that said Mangekyō technique originates from it; for the Sharingan clearly does.​

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[iSpeak the Truth]

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Hey Varrah, let me have your thoughts on that^ please!

 

[Thundercles]

Exactly. At that point. The prerequisites were more than likely referring to Itachi's specific requirements for his Susano'o; not to all of them. This can be backed up by the fact that later in the Manga, Sasuke states you need the Double Mangekyō to Awaken Susano'o...



The Jūbi is said to be the progenitor of everything that exists, thus, it's not a stretch to say that said Mangekyō technique originates from it; for the Sharingan clearly does.​

​

Yes, Sasuke states you need both MS eyes to get Susano'o. What does that mean? 1 eye for Tsukuyomi and 1 eye for Amaterasu. 1 + 1 =2. So until explicitly stated to the contrary, it still stand that you need both techs.

No, the Sharingan has not been said to come from the Juubi. It came from the Sage's Son with the eyes. If you have any shred of PROOF that the sharingan comes from the Juubi, then please show me.