Exiguity.

[Narutofan4203]

No, his Blaze Release is his "special" MS tech. Just as Shisui has KA. That is all.

Susano'o is a MS technique formed from having both MS eyes, it's the true power of MS. Itachi's special ability was his great tsukuyomi, but he still had susano'o. Sasuke's is blaze release, still susano'o. Madara's special is PS.

 

[Thundercles]

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All of this can be answered in the preceding posts. Discern it... ​

Oh, I've read them. Still doesn't prove anything. You cannot provide me 1 Uchiha who is the exception of the "out-dated" req from the Databook. Name one. Please, try to make Madara the one. Because I will shoot that down immediately.

 

[Thundercles]

Susano'o is a MS technique formed from having both MS eyes, it's the true power of MS. Itachi's special ability was his great tsukuyomi, but he still had susano'o. Sasuke's is blaze release, still susano'o. Madara's special is PS.

Are you agreeing? Because you just reiterated what I just said.

Edit: I know they all had Susano'o. When I say "special" I mean a MS tech that is unique to the user. KA, Kamui, Blaze Release, PS, Itachi's supp'd Tsukuyomi.

 

[Thundercles]

*Honestly*​

There has been information posted in the previous Databooks that have subsequently been refuted by the manga. The mechanisms of Susano’o in the third Databook are only fresh and factual to only Itachi [

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]. Itachi at the third databook’s publication was the sole example to display Susano’o, and as such, his prerequisites were the focal point of Susanoo's entry. However, those prerequisites have changed, and are outdated: Sasuke’s elucidation should serve as the base for the conditions of Susano’o until the fourth databook is published. [

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]

And still you haven't proven that Sasuke does not have Tsukuyomi. This is not even a valid theory.

Those scans do not do you any favour. You have merely shown me Sasuke's skill in the form of Keitai Henka, something which others have done so before, like the Rasengan. As for the last scan, let me ask you a simple question: what do you think is the reason as to why Obito does not have Susano? And compare that to Sasuke's number of eyes.

You have spouted all of this yet we see Madara and Obito ready to complete their plan. It baffles me how you think Madara is going to complete Moon Eye plan without Tsukuyomi, I believe Owarji already made a complete fool out of you earlier with this.

I agree with the fact that Obito and Madara obviously have Tsukuyomi.

 

[Thundercles]

*Honestly*​

There has been information posted in the previous Databooks that have subsequently been refuted by the manga. The mechanisms of Susano’o in the third Databook are only fresh and factual to only Itachi [

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]. Itachi at the third databook’s publication was the sole example to display Susano’o, and as such, his prerequisites were the focal point of Susanoo's entry. However, those prerequisites have changed, and are outdated: Sasuke’s elucidation should serve as the base for the conditions of Susano’o until the fourth databook is published. [

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]

No, that is what Itachi stated that was required for Susano'o. The Databook backs this.

Those scans do not do you any favour. You have merely shown me Sasuke's skill in the form of Keitai Henka, something which others have done so before, like the Rasengan. As for the last scan, let me ask you a simple question: what do you think is the reason as to why Obito does not have Susano? And compare that to Sasuke's number of eyes.

You have spouted all of this yet we see Madara and Obito ready to complete their plan. It baffles me how you think Madara is going to complete Moon Eye plan without Tsukuyomi, I believe Owarji already made a complete fool out of you earlier with this.

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Which is why Masashi had to explicity stated the change through Sasuke.[

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]

Sasuke exercised

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on Killer Bee not Tsukuyomi—which is a predominantly powerful type of Binding Genjutsu that both Itachi and Sasuke have cast from their Sharingan in the past but have differing aesthetics.[

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]​

Its funny that these techs resemble Tsukuyomi. It is also funny that when using this tech, the user has his NORMAL sharingan activated. When we see the other form of this tech, it is while Tsukuyomi is activated.

 

[Varrah]

No, his Blaze Release is his "special" MS tech. Just as Shisui has KA. That is all.

Exactly my point...all of your preceding post are hollow if you came to this conclusion. ​

 

[BlackDude]

I agree with Owarji xd

 

[Thundercles]

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Exactly my point...all of your preceding post are hollow if you came to this conclusion. ​

How in the hell do you come to that conclusion?

 

[Thundercles]

No clue what you meant X_X. It doesn't need to say he has tsukuyomi.. the fact Sasuke used Amaterasu and a genjutsu before Susano'o is a proof of that.


And that Sasuke did those 2 before unlocking his susano'o. Also its not people's fault.. its how the thread is set up..

For once, we are in agreement.

 

[Thundercles]

Sasuke doesnt have tsukuyomi agreed.
Just to reply to the noobs who think susanoo=ametarasu + tsukuyomi, explain how madara never used either and still has susanoo? Also, every person has a seperate ms ability, just look at shisui and obito. The susanoo only needs two mangekyuo eyes, nothing more. Also, since itachi gave sasuke his power and sasuke later took his eyes, their powers are similar but not exactly the same either.

Well, Madara was intending on becoming the Juubi's jinky. And what is the next part of that plan? Casting a ****ing Tsukuyomi on the moon... He's gotta have it to cast it. Fail.

So how come no one has any argument against this? Where is the "databook says Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi give Susanoo" crowd?

Page 274.

 

[Baka Sennin]

yeah I agree. you just need two ocular powers to activate susanoo, there's no need for them to be tsukuyomi and amaterasu. that said, i'd like to disagree with one small thing Varrah said- dispelling amaterasu is not a property of enton, as itachi had used it on sasuke 'to preserve his eyes' in their battle.

 

[Lindów2]

How in the hell do you come to that conclusion?

I guess meaning Blaze Release is Enton Kagutsuchi, Sasuke's second eye ability.

 

[Lindów2]

*Honestly*​

There has been information posted in the previous Databooks that have subsequently been refuted by the manga. The mechanisms of Susano’o in the third Databook are only fresh and factual to only Itachi [

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]. Itachi at the third databook’s publication was the sole example to display Susano’o, and as such, his prerequisites were the focal point of Susanoo's entry. However, those prerequisites have changed, and are outdated: Sasuke’s elucidation should serve as the base for the conditions of Susano’o until the fourth databook is published. [

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]

This, makes sense. The third databook claims revolving around only Itachi is perfectly logical as he was the only person to have Susanoo at the time. Kishimoto changes the requirements needed to activate Susanoo does have a strong chance of happening, and is similar to how Kishimoto is establishing Hashirama as the strongest Hokage over the former primitive nominee Hiruzen.

 

[Thundercles]

I guess meaning Blaze Release is Enton Kagutsuchi, Sasuke's second eye ability.

No, it is HIS special MS tech. Just like Obito has Kamui and Shisui had KA.

 

[Thundercles]

This, makes sense. The third databook claims revolving around only Itachi is perfectly logical as he was the only person to have Susanoo at the time. Kishimoto changes the requirements needed to activate Susanoo does have a strong chance of happening, and is similar to how Kishimoto is establishing Hashirama as the strongest Hokage over the former primitive nominee Hiruzen.

I can concede that it is possible for the req's to change, due to the author, but we haven't seen such proof as of yet. Varrah has failed to name 1 Uchiha who is the exception to the current rule. Until then, I'm sorry, but it is cannon. Susano'o reqs both techs.

 

[Varrah]

I can concede that it is possible for the req's to change, due to the author, but we haven't seen such proof as of yet. Varrah has failed to name 1 Uchiha who is the exception to the current rule. Until then, I'm sorry, but it is cannon. Susano'o reqs both techs.

I would think Sasuke's

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qualifies as proof for the prerequisites of Susanoo changing, coupled with several implications of Sasuke bearing Tsukuyomi heedfully opposed.

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​

Evidently; we will not be agreeing with one another, so let's simply agree to disagree. ​

 

[Thundercles]

Introduction:

The purpose of this thread is centralized specifically on clearing up the popular misconception that Sasuke actually has access to Tsukuyomi. I'll attempt to disprove this notion through various statements in the Manga, and general logic and deduction. Majority of the proof stems from

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's work, and as such, I thank him and acknowledge him for this. Duly note that the Sasuke I speak of is MS Sasuke.

Groundwork:

Majority of people tend to think that Tsukuyomi is a prerequisite of Susano'o due what Itachi stated about Susano'o, Amaterasu, and Tsukuyomi, in their final battle. [

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] What we must realize and attempt to understand is that Itachi is simply stating that along with his Susano'o, he unlocked two Mangekyō techniques: Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu. Nothing more, in fact, nowhere does Itachi distinctively state that Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu are the definite prerequisites for Susano'o. Even so, people tend to think that Sasuke has Tsukuyomi...allow me to elaborate on this: despite what Itachi said, Sasuke has never referred to any of the Genjutsu he has used explicitly as 'Tsukuyomi'...thus hinting that Sasuke doesn't really possess it. Furthermore, regardless of what has been firmly stated in the past; Itachi's strong claim has seemingly been retconned by Kishi-Sensei through Madara. [

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] Madara is strongly implying that in order to awaken the Sharingan's true power both Sharingan eyes are a requirement. Does this ring a bell? Susano'o requires both Mangekyōs to be used, hence both Sharingan eyes are a requirement, and not that Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are the definite requirements...In other words, what Itachi said is probably false. If you're still confused; when Madara stated what he did, he was hinting at Susano'o...Therefore, his statement perhaps indicates that the notion that both Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are definite prerequisites for Susano'o are false; as he simply states that both eyes are required. [

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]

Determinant:

Despite the fact the belief that Sasuke has Tsukuyomi mainly stems from what Itachi said; some of it stems from Sasuke's battle with Danzō and Kirābī. Despite popular beliefs; Sasuke used a mere Sharingan Genjutsu on Danzō. Not Tsukuyomi. This is clearly evident as Danzō states that Sasuke's Genjutsu prowess is clearly inferior to Itachi's. Not the prowess of his Tsukuyomi. [

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] Obito even attested to this by stating it was merely a weak Genjutsu; and not Tsukuyomi. [

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] One thing I noticed in people's reasoning that Sasuke possesses Tsukuyomi is the fact that he used his basic Genjutsu with his Mangekyō Sharingan active; quite frankly, this is completely and utterly fallacious. For Itachi has used Susano'o with his base Sharingan... [

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]

What's more, is that against Kirābī Sasuke simply used a basic binding Genjutsu. [

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] This is further emphasized through the way in which Kirābī simply fell down in his battle against Sasuke...[

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]

Notes:

I, along with Varrah, theorize that Sasuke gained access to Tsukuyomi via the transplantation of Itachi's eyes. This can be emphasized through Sasuke's words..."I can feel Itachi's power flowing into me"; it's possible that Sasuke is referring to Tsukuyomi. Notice where Sasuke's hand is pointing also...to his eyes; hinting Itachi's power is now within him. [

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]

Summary:

Despite popular belief, Sasuke (MS) lacks Tsukuyomi. However, this exiguity is appropriated via the transplantation of Itachi's eyes...

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Ok, people do indeed assume that it is a requirement because of a misconception from Itachi. But people like me, get this idea because the Databook says so. (Page 274, in case you are curious) Also, when Madara says, "You need both MS sharingan to unlock the Susano'o" that is because you do need both eyes. But you are failing to see that having both eyes satisfies the Amaterasu + Tsukuyomi req. 1 eye has Tsukuyomi, the other, Amaterasu. Furthermore, just because he doesn't explicitly say "Tsukuyomi" doesn't mean that isn't the tech. When Sasuke was using his techs in the Bee fight, they were the first time he used them. So Kishi was just showing us that Sasuke can use the techs. Also, to counter your "Sasuke didn't say Tsukuyomi, so that means it wasn't" Here is Itachi just talking about what the genjutsu is, but he doesn't actually say "Tsukuyomi!" when casting is. He just does:

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And as you can see, Sasuke was hit with Tsukuyomi and during that entire encounter, Itachi NEVER said "Tsukuyomi!" So your DBZ logic fails.

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[Thundercles]

To you Varrah,

Scans. ​

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[/QUOTE]

Ok, this shows that Sasuke uses Blaze Release, HIS special MS tech, ie, Kamui, KA, Itachi's Tsukuyomi, nothing more. We see that Obito casts Kamui with his right eye. He can also use that right eye to cast Tsukuyomi, per Road to Ninja AND seeing as he intends on acting as jinky and would need that tech to perform "Infinite Tsukuyomi".

 

[Varrah]

Ok, people do indeed assume that it is a requirement because of a misconception from Itachi. But people like me, get this idea because the Databook says so. (Page 274, in case you are curious) Also, when Madara says, "You need both MS sharingan to unlock the Susano'o" that is because you do need both eyes. But you are failing to see that having both eyes satisfies the Amaterasu + Tsukuyomi req. 1 eye has Tsukuyomi, the other, Amaterasu. Furthermore, just because he doesn't explicitly say "Tsukuyomi" doesn't mean that isn't the tech. When Sasuke was using his techs in the Bee fight, they were the first time he used them. So Kishi was just showing us that Sasuke can use the techs. Also, to counter your "Sasuke didn't say Tsukuyomi, so that means it wasn't" Here is Itachi just talking about what the genjutsu is, but he doesn't actually say "Tsukuyomi!" when casting is. He just does:

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And as you can see, Sasuke was hit with Tsukuyomi and during that entire encounter, Itachi NEVER said "Tsukuyomi!" So your DBZ logic fails.

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This is becoming tedious and pointless. Cerebral wise dereliction comprehending the notions of the more recent phylogenetic displays of the Mangekyō and its illustrative arbitrary attributes that permit Sasuke to utilize Susanoo isn't registering. So I must ask you, what is Tsukuyomi to you? ​

To you Varrah,

Spoiler

Scans. ​

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​

Ok, this shows that Sasuke uses Blaze Release, HIS special MS tech, ie, Kamui, KA, Itachi's Tsukuyomi, nothing more. We see that Obito casts Kamui with his right eye. He can also use that right eye to cast Tsukuyomi, per Road to Ninja AND seeing as he intends on acting as jinky and would need that tech to perform "Infinite Tsukuyomi".

My stance is logical explaining and agreeing that Enton: Kagutsuchi is Sasuke's other Mangekyō ability, however disagrees that prior to the attainment of the Eien no Mangekyō Sharingan, that Sasuke possessed Tsukuyomi. Moreover, the presumed functions of Obito's ocular powers are still simply Jikūkan Idō and Kamui. Obito, like Shisui apparently have an abundance of talent situated in their powers, but the dynamics are performed differently.

The Ten-Tails also has powers that have not yet been completely understood, due to not being being witness; which may seemingly allow it to employ ocular jutsu's.​

 

[-Logic-]

To you Varrah,

Scans. ​

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Ok, this shows that Sasuke uses Blaze Release, HIS special MS tech, ie, Kamui, KA, Itachi's Tsukuyomi, nothing more. We see that Obito casts Kamui with his right eye. He can also use that right eye to cast Tsukuyomi, per Road to Ninja AND seeing as he intends on acting as jinky and would need that tech to perform "Infinite Tsukuyomi".

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...Per Road to Ninja? That isn't even canonical material. How can I take you seriously when you use shit like that in your argument(s). Hot dayum.

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