Every jutsu has a weakness, so does Kotoamatsukami

[Waltz]

If you know you are fighting a Kotoamatsukami user, it would be stupid not to try to check your own chakra flow during the fight

That depends on if you are aware that they possess such a particulary in their mangekyou, if not there would be no need to do something like that. Once again, if the target is caught in the genjutsu that solely requires eye contact, something that is easily established at the beginning of any fight; their overall function from then on is totally controlled by the wielder of Kotoamatsukami.

 

[Adebayo]

Sides if u already gotten by the KA, u won't even be able to check ur chakra flow cos u already under the users' control. And the user would definitely not allow the victim to check his/her chakra flow

 

[Bogard]

Can't be countered if they aren't fast enough, now can it?
Like I said before, it being able to be countered in the first place is a variable as it could be hours before the sensor attempts to check their own chakra flow; by then they could be used and disposed of.
What if the demand that was used on KA was specifically not to check the chakra flow? How would it be countered, then?

Then it's a waste of the use of Kotoamatsukami since the fight would continue normally

That depends on if you are aware that they possess such a particulary in their mangekyou, if not there would be no need to do something like that. Once again, if the target is caught in the genjutsu that solely requires eye contact, something that is easily established at the beginning of any fight; their overall function from then on is totally controlled by the wielder of Kotoamatsukami.

Ao disagrees when he says Danzo can't fool him with KA

 

[Adebayo]

Then it's a waste of the use of Kotoamatsukami since the fight would continue normally
Ao disagrees when he says Danzo can't fool him with KA

AO wasn't the one under the kA effect. So of course he can say what he likes

 

[shelke]

So, the guy was able to pick up the Genjutsu from a third person perspective? Similarly Karin was also determining it from a third person perspective? KA was never cast on him, hence he was able to see the disturbance. If he had been the target, how will he be aware of the disturbance? This doesn't make any sense.

 

[Bogard]

AO wasn't the one under the kA effect. So of course he can say what he likes

Ao knows the technique better than anyone since he had the chance to face Shisui directly and survived

 

[Strict]

Bogard, Kotoamatsukami can only be used once every 10 years, so what makes you think that everyone who faced Shisui had to deal with Kotoamatsukami? Shisui wanted to use Kotoamatsukami to do something for peace and so gave one of his eyes to Itachi. It's not a technique one would just use thoughtless. If he had used Kotoamatsukami against one of them, Itachi would've had an eye that cannot be used for another 10 years. Shisui however gave it to Itachi in order to use it whenever he decides the right time has arrived.

No one can escape Kotoamatsukami, therefore everyone, like Danzo and Kabuto seek for it. Even Itachi, a user of the Mangekyo, claiming that someone with the same eye cannot cast a Genjutsu against another, was controlled by Kotoamatsukami. Tsukuyomi was even broken by an Uchiha with Tomoe Sharingan. The one who gets caught by Kotoamatsukami cannot escape it, Mifune himself even asked whether the control of Kotoamatsukami was still present, what means, that the one who gets controlled cannot notice it - his mind simply gets rewrite with the idea of the caster, the idea of the caster gets the victims ideas so it seems for him that Kotoamatsukamis control is his own free will. Itachi even wanted to control Sasuke with the EMS, making him to be a ally of Konoha again.

And Sensor Ninja are also not protected against Genjutsu; Shee got the full effect of Sasukes paralyzing Genjutsu.

The price for such a technique is an interval of 10 years. Of course, a technique that has such a price is ultimately.

 

[Adebayo]

Ao knows the technique better than anyone since he had the chance to face Shisui directly and survived

He did face shisui and survive but it wasn't stated KA was use against him. Shisui can use it once in a decade, so it's possible the jutsu was unavailable to him during his fight with Ao. Proly the reason Ao even survived in the first place

 

[Waltz]

Ao disagrees when he says Danzo can't fool him with KA

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Kotoamatsukami was shisui's and shisui's alone. Ao never stated that he has faced kotoamatsukami, your speculating that because they fought sometime in the past, but rather he saw throught the genjutsu used to control the fourth mizukage by obito [

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]. Mei states that they may be similar as the out come's are identical [

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] Ao is only assuming that because he was able to see through obito's genjutsu with the byakugan that he would be able to do the same with koto. Assumption, not fact; and given the

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of the Genjutsu itself, he's wrong.

 

[muutobirama3rdraikagemizu]

one vs one KA soles

 

[Bogard]

Bogard, Kotoamatsukami can only be used once every 10 years, so what makes you think that everyone who faced Shisui had to deal with Kotoamatsukami?

I didn't say everyone who faced Shisui faced Kotoamatsukami. I only said there is a high possibility that Ao faced it judging by the great knowledge he has concerning the jutsu.

Shisui wanted to use Kotoamatsukami to do something for peace and so gave one of his eyes to Itachi. It's not a technique one would just use thoughtless. If he had used Kotoamatsukami against one of them, Itachi would've had an eye that cannot be used for another 10 years. Shisui however gave it to Itachi in order to use it whenever he decides the right time has arrived.

Itachi said he couldn't use Kotoamatsukami on Sasuke, but later kotoamatsukami was available when he faced Naruto and it's what helped him to go out of Edo tensei's control. It's not as if that much of a time passed between Itachi's death and the war. At most we're talking about months here, but when Itachi was fighting Sasuke, he said he couldn't use it, which means that during 10years he still couldn't use it during his life. Itachi died at 21, which means that 10years before(at 11) Kotoamatsukami was used. And if it was used, it can only be by Shisui since Itachi didn't have his eye at that time. So in short, Itachi never really had the possibility to use kotoamatsukami when he was alive if we go by the timeline

No one can escape Kotoamatsukami, therefore everyone, like Danzo and Kabuto seek for it.

It's never stated no one can escape ka. That's just your speculation. Danzo and Kabuto seek for it simply because it's a powerful genjutsu that could be useful for them. It doesn't mean it's not escape

The one who gets caught by Kotoamatsukami cannot escape it, Mifune himself even asked whether the control of Kotoamatsukami was still present, what means, that the one who gets controlled cannot notice it

It's not Mifune who asked but his bodyguard. Anyway i never said Mifune could notice Kotoamatsukami. I said a skilled sensor can notice it. Mifune is not a sensor(let alone a skilled one) so far we know

And Sensor Ninja are also not protected against Genjutsu; Shee got the full effect of Sasukes paralyzing Genjutsu.

That's completely out of context. You are talking about 2different jutsus here. Shee eventhough he was caught off-guard by the genjutsu noticed the genjutsu. It's kotoamatsuki which is described as undetectable, but like i've proved in this thread, a skilled sensor like Ao can

The price for such a technique is an interval of 10 years. Of course, a technique that has such a price is ultimately.

I believe this is the reason why people overrate this technique. They believe that because it's not a genjutsu that can be used very often it should be overpowered. It doesn't work like that

 

[KingHashirama]

I like this man. ^_^. But the problem like some stated is they wouldn't notice. You know what I kind of figured, K.A is more like a mind control, rather then a "Genjutsu". ^_^But I doubt if it has the power to do this : " Go kill yourself"... I mean at that point a person would obviously notice.

 

[Bogard]

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Kotoamatsukami was shisui's and shisui's alone. Ao never stated that he has faced kotoamatsukami, your speculating that because they fought sometime in the past, but rather he saw throught the genjutsu used to control the fourth mizukage by obito [

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]. Mei states that they may be similar as the out come's are identical [

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] Ao is only assuming that because he was able to see through obito's genjutsu with the byakugan that he would be able to do the same with koto. Assumption, not fact; and given the

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of the Genjutsu itself, he's wrong.

I don't know what is hard to understand.

1- He did notice KA's was stopped to be used by Danzo by checking Mifune's chakra flow, did he not? The simple fact he was able to notice the disturbance of chakra flow when Kotoamatsukami is in use or not already shows he can see thru the technique, so your comparison with Obito's genjutsu is irrelevant

2- A skilled sensor can sense his chakra, can't he?

So what stops him from noticing if he is under KA?

 

[Adebayo]

I don't know what is hard to understand.

1- He did notice KA's was stopped to be used by Danzo by checking Mifune's chakra flow, did he not? The simple fact he was able to notice the disturbance of chakra flow when Kotoamatsukami is in use or not already shows he can see thru the technique, so your comparison with Obito's genjutsu is irrelevant

2- A skilled sensor can sense his chakra, can't he?

So what stops him from noticing if he is under KA?

Jeez! He won't notice cos he's under control. A person under control has no mind of his own, and I sincerely doubt the controller woul just sit there and let his pawn check his chakra flow

 

[Bogard]

Jeez! He won't notice cos he's under control. A person under control has no mind of his own, and I sincerely doubt the controller woul just sit there and let his pawn check his chakra flow

He does have a mind. I don't know where your idea come from. Mifune had the mind. Itachi had his mind. It's only that KA forces him to follow the order given by the genjutsu, but your mind is still intact to do everything else that doesn't contradict the order given by the genjutsu, that's all. Concerning the bolded part, it's irrelevant since the point of the thread is not to know if the opponent can notice in time or not, but to show that KA itself(the genjutsu) can be countered

I like this man. ^_^. But the problem like some stated is they wouldn't notice. You know what I kind of figured, K.A is more like a mind control, rather then a "Genjutsu". ^_^But I doubt if it has the power to do this : " Go kill yourself"... I mean at that point a person would obviously notice.

Thanks bro ^_^ I think KA gives your a order to follow. It doesn't mean that you can't still think of something on your own

 

[Strict]

An Uchiha with three Tomoe can potentially break even Tsukuyomi - so Sasuke did.
Itachi stated, that visual Genjutsu don't work against some one with the same eyes, because they have the same level.
Yet Itachi, an Uchiha with the Mangekyo Sharingan was controlled by Kotoamatsukami and freed from Edo Tensei.
The EMS is the highest form of Sharingan, yet Itachi intended to control Sasuke in the long run with it.

Can you explain me this, based on facts and statements from the Manga? Why a user of the Mangekyo with awarenesss of Kotoamatsukami and even an Eternal Mangekyo user can fall for this illusion, others however shouldn't, if this illusion is cast right at them? I would be interested in hearing this. mhm

 

[AlphaScythian]

Koto has only 1 weakness its 10 years cooldown, which is the price u pay for ultimate genjutsu.
Ao only noted koto due to chakra colour, as he already knew shisui, nothing else.

 

[Waltz]

@Bogard: Being external to the genjutsu's effectiveness and a sensor Ao would be able to see the difference in chakra flow. That doesn't mean he would be able to do so himself as i stated prior, overall function of the target completely is controlled by the wielder of Kotoamtsukami and what strict said about the 10years. Refrain from speculation, as it was nowhere implied that Shisui used it against Ao and neither is he detailed on the genjutsu save it's function but makes an assumption that he could see through it, which is false as the genjutsu cannot be noticed by the target when they are not in control of their own mind or body.

kotoamatsukami is as stated the most powerful genjtusu, able to control any target without them noticing meaning that there is no counter once you are caught in the genjutsu. Hence why it's use was limited to 10years. It's prowess opposes Itachi's version of Tsukuyomi and may even bypass it, it is no doubt unparalleled thus far. Facts, undeniable.

 

[Bogard]

An Uchiha with three Tomoe can potentially break even Tsukuyomi - so Sasuke did.
Itachi stated, that visual Genjutsu don't work against some one with the same eyes, because they have the same level.
Yet Itachi, an Uchiha with the Mangekyo Sharingan was controlled by Kotoamatsukami and freed from Edo Tensei.
The EMS is the highest form of Sharingan, yet Itachi intended to control Sasuke in the long run with it.

Can you explain me this, based on facts and statements from the Manga? Why a user of the Mangekyo with awarenesss of Kotoamatsukami and even an Eternal Mangekyo user can fall for this illusion, others however shouldn't, if this illusion is cast right at them? I would be interested in hearing this. mhm

You talk as is if Itachi even intended to counter KA. No he was caught by his own jutsu intentionally. He himself knew he was under the genjutsu(KA), didn't he? Sasuke on the other hand doesn't even know the jutsu, so how could he prepare himself to counter a genjutsu he doesn't know and couldn't even be aware of if it ever happened?

Now answer me this:

- There is a disturbance in the chakra flow when KA is used, isn't it?
- Ao noticed the disturbance in Mifune's chakra flow when KA was used on him, didn't he?
- A skilled sensor can notice the disturbance in his chakra flow, can't he?

So what stops him from noticing if he is even caught by KA when he has already shown the capacity and even told he can't be fooled by the technique?

 

[Prime Rib]

KA weakness is the cool down that's all