Establishment: Why Orochimaru > Deidara.

[Turson]

You obviously didn't read the thread.

I did, I simply dont agree with you.

 

[AGoodBoy]

Orochimaru saw through Sai's clone. If he couldn't sense it, he wouldn't have assaulted with Kusanagi, especially that by that time Sai has already told him about being Danzo's subordinate. Body temperature and smell alone are enough for Orochimaru to tell the difference between a clone and a real person.
Deidara cannot conceal them, since it's a feat of very skilled Medical ninja [

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].

You've completely and utterly missed the point. Sensing wouldn't matter because a sharingan couldn't discern the clone. If a sharingan can't make out the chakra discrepency in a clone, a sensor can't. It's been an established manga fact that a shadow clone can't be differentiated from the real person. All evidence suggests that deidara uses a form of shadow clone for his clay clones.
Your sai example is bad because say's ink clones aren't based upon the shadow clone tech and doesn't divide chakra evenly. He just makes a clone that would obviously have a different chakra level than himself so it'd be easy to notice.
The kabuto example is even worse. Kabuto needed to do that because he used other people. What, someone makes clones and their smell and temperature changes? Wtf? Are you serious? You're going to clone yourself but the clone's gonna smell like febreeze just because?

Nothing suggests that? Everything suggests that, especially that for C4 to work, the bombs must enter victim's bloodstream. Something current Orochimaru doesn't have in his Human Shell. He also doesn't have any internal organs - lungs, heart, veins. He is an artificial being. He doesn't breathe - just deal with it.

Orochimaru always

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. His true form is a 'normal'(As normal as a body made of 1000s of white snakes can get), living creature. His shells are just that; Shells. Absolutely nothing suggests what you're saying.

You need to form a better counter, based on manga fact, because at the end of the day, they're still explosions carried on a cloud of gas. A very basic law of gases is that they 'fill a space'. Any openings on orochimaru's body (like his mouth where he releases kusanagi) is an opening that a gas would fill and orochimaru now has bombs in him that would just go off. You need to deal with that.

Orochimaru has that techniques as well. And thanks to all Oro's sensory abilities, he won't fool him with clones or surprise him with land mines.

Again, A sharingan was fooled by a

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or the

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. Sharingan can see chakra which allows it to detect clones, detect any chakra based substances, and see through genjutsu. You're just going off opinion right now, To be completely honest.

I have already covered all these techniques in Defense section. It is obvious that C4 wouldn't work on him BUT even if it did, Mayfly, Hiding like a mole and Attack prevention would defend him with ease. Since C4 destroyed animals but left trees untouched, merging with ground or other inanimated objects, or simply buring deep into the ground would be enough.

And, that's what I'm saying. You just listed those techs, and didn't tell us how it could be used, then used some poor counter for C4.

 

[Red Slayer]

nice thread i agree

 

[Zexion~]

First off now that he's in a Zetsu body that means he is completely made of cells, what does C4 do? Explode the cells, thanks to his unique body structure they do not have to actually enter his system to do this. They merely can explode the body from the outside in thanks to all of it being cells.

Second Sasuke didn't dodge through plain speed, he avoided them thanks to the added help of gliding and floating with his CM2 state. Which Oro doesn't have the Land Mine Combo along with the C2 dragon end Orochimaru. However he would have to get that in place which would be tricky here, however I still see Deidara winning more times then not

 

[Nattana]

You've completely and utterly missed the point. Sensing wouldn't matter because a sharingan couldn't discern the clone. If a sharingan can't make out the chakra discrepency in a clone, a sensor can't. It's been an established manga fact that a shadow clone can't be differentiated from the real person. All evidence suggests that deidara uses a form of shadow clone for his clay clones.
Your sai example is bad because say's ink clones aren't based upon the shadow clone tech and doesn't divide chakra evenly. He just makes a clone that would obviously have a different chakra level than himself so it'd be easy to notice.
The kabuto example is even worse. Kabuto needed to do that because he used other people. What, someone makes clones and their smell and temperature changes? Wtf? Are you serious? You're going to clone yourself but the clone's gonna smell like febreeze just because?

The only clone that was based off the Shadow Clone was his Suicidal Clone, which is used to give Deidara time to escape with Hiding like a mole. His Clay Clone doesn't use Shadow Clone as a component and CAN be sensed with every single sensory ability Orochimaru has. Clay Clone doesn't retain Deidara's body temperature and smell, also chakra sensing should be enough too.

Moreover, Deidara himself used Hiding like a mole to dodge his explosions. Orochimaru, who also is in possession of that jutsu is not even gonna get touched by Dei Explosive Clay nor Suicidal Clones.

Orochimaru always

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. His true form is a 'normal'(As normal as a body made of 1000s of white snakes can get), living creature. His shells are just that; Shells. Absolutely nothing suggests what you're saying.

You need to form a better counter, based on manga fact, because at the end of the day, they're still explosions carried on a cloud of gas. A very basic law of gases is that they 'fill a space'. Any openings on orochimaru's body (like his mouth where he releases kusanagi) is an opening that a gas would fill and orochimaru now has bombs in him that would just go off. You need to deal with that.

It was his True Form that remains hidden in Orochimaru's

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.

Moreover, C4 didn't affect trees around Sasuke, which are also alive. Current Orochimaru doesn't have bloodstream and that's why C4 won't affect him.

Again, A sharingan was fooled by a

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or the

You must be registered for see links

. Sharingan can see chakra which allows it to detect clones, detect any chakra based substances, and see through genjutsu. You're just going off opinion right now, To be completely honest.

Sharingan isn't omnipotent. Nothing suggests that Sharingan > any other sensing ability. But anyways, the only clone based of Shadow Clone is Suicidal Clone Technique. I've already covered that.

And, that's what I'm saying. You just listed those techs, and didn't tell us how it could be used, then used some poor counter for C4.

These techniques can be used in so many ways, it's even hard to point them out. Obviously simple Mayfly or Hiding like a mole can counter C4 and probably Orochimaru would resort to them just in case, but even if he didn't, C4 wouldn't do anything to him at all.

First off now that he's in a Zetsu body that means he is completely made of cells, what does C4 do? Explode the cells, thanks to his unique body structure they do not have to actually enter his system to do this. They merely can explode the body from the outside in thanks to all of it being cells.

Trees are made of cells as well, yet C4 didn't affect them.

Second Sasuke didn't dodge through plain speed, he avoided them thanks to the added help of gliding and floating with his CM2 state. Which Oro doesn't have the Land Mine Combo along with the C2 dragon end Orochimaru. However he would have to get that in place which would be tricky here, however I still see Deidara winning more times then not

There's no Tobi here to plant them Land Mines and there's no way Orochimaru gives Deidara enough time to plant them himself. Moreover, Orochimaru is faster than Sasuke (already covered it in my first post) and has many more defensive techniques than Sasuke, to keep himself unharmed.

 

[Zexion~]

The only clone that was based off the Shadow Clone was his Suicidal Clone, which is used to give Deidara time to escape with Hiding like a mole. His Clay Clone doesn't use Shadow Clone as a component and CAN be sensed with every single sensory ability Orochimaru has. Clay Clone doesn't retain Deidara's body temperature and smell, also chakra sensing should be enough too.

Moreover, Deidara himself used Hiding like a mole to dodge his explosions. Orochimaru, who also is in possession of that jutsu is not even gonna get touched by Dei Explosive Clay nor Suicidal Clones.



It was his True Form that remains hidden in Orochimaru's

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.

Moreover, C4 didn't affect trees around Sasuke, which are also alive. Current Orochimaru doesn't have bloodstream and that's why C4 won't affect him.



Sharingan isn't omnipotent. Nothing suggests that Sharingan > any other sensing ability. But anyways, the only clone based of Shadow Clone is Suicidal Clone Technique. I've already covered that.



These techniques can be used in so many ways, it's even hard to point them out. Obviously simple Mayfly or Hiding like a mole can counter C4 and probably Orochimaru would resort to them just in case, but even if he didn't, C4 wouldn't do anything to him at all.



Trees are made of cells as well, yet C4 didn't affect them.



There's no Tobi here to plant them Land Mines and there's no way Orochimaru gives Deidara enough time to plant them himself. Moreover, Orochimaru is faster than Sasuke (already covered it in my first post) and has many more defensive techniques than Sasuke, to keep himself unharmed.

Cells are still on the inside of tree's covered by its "skin" (the bark), Pretty Sure Zetsu is cells on the inside and out my man,


Also he doesn't need tobi he has hiding like a mole jutsu as well the same one Tobi used (if I need to get scans I shall) That combined with a clay clone should get the job done rather easily, However even if he didn't I don't see how Oro could hurt him from all the way up there. Not to mention if he decides to use an explosive clay clone, then Oro has to be extra careful