Okay, so I was requested by a few members to post this match up (NS vs Madara). The usual consensus is that JJ Madara can stomp them individually, let alone as a team. I myself actually think this whole Madara wank is ridiculous.
In this case, I will properly address otherwise. Basically, why Naruto and Sasuke's abilities argubly surpass Madara's own. Or at least, debunking the whole wank of him getting an easy victory, when it isn't a stomp like its made out to be.
First, Madara asserted that with both powers plus immortality he can defeat them. However, he also noted that they both are not the same as they were before. Not even taking into account that they didn't use everything against him.
[
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]->[
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]
Now down to the establishments.
Naruto:
Truth Seeker Orbs are countered by
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and
You must be registered for see links
. Naruto also has shown instances that he is skilled with shape manipulation. [
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][
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]
He has superior shape manipulation due to two mechanics being used together for TBBRS. Hiruzen compared
You must be registered for see links
. Rasengan by itself was already considered the
You must be registered for see links
. By him combining Rasenshuriken's principles with his orbs, he created a
You must be registered for see links
opposed what Juubito and Juudara has displayed. No way TSO are helping Madara.
Tailed Beast Bombs are another deadly attacks that Juubi Jins can create. Madara can possibly summon
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. Shinnju in its final form has only shown this, since its no longer a raging beast that fires through the mouth.
Naruto immediately use either FRS variants to destroy them.[
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][
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][
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] A regular Rasenshuriken sliced
You must be registered for see links
. By scaling, they are around the same size and height range as the TBB tree. He also can use
You must be registered for see links
to make a quicker finish. With these, he cuts down the trees quick enough to halt TBBs charging; thus rendering them useless.
If Juudara used
You must be registered for see links
which he likely will, Naruto can:
- Flying to one end and extend Chakra Arms to tear down the barrier like Juubito.[
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][
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]
- Blasting through the barrier with a very large bomb.[
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]
It was needed so all of the intended target can be caught or else they become more avoidable. Even then, it doesn't mean much if those Tree Cannons can be erased.
Chibaku Tensei is Madara's most powerful Rinnegan Tech. As a Juubi Jin, he created multiple CTs meteors. Each of them is larger than Nagato's and there are obviously more of them. This was canonically countered by six Chou Odama TBBRS.[
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]-[
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]
An overlooked detail is that
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for CT to end. The only reason why Naruto destroyed all of them was his teammates. They were at risk for collateral damage, so all of it had to be vaporized. Another one is that TBBRS themselves
You must be registered for see links
. Naruto is not limited to nine TBBRS. Even then, they can be
You must be registered for see links
.
Preta Path is a no go. It can not be used while casting Ninjutsu at the same time. It contradicts with
You must be registered for see links
, which is the exact opposite of casting jutsu. If Madara use this path, he cannot use other techs along with it. Another weakness is how much can the technique absorb in one succession. Edo Madara
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before he absorbed it. Juudara himself did not absorb Naruto's LRS and instead resorted to Limbo. So using this to absorb his techniques is a bunk.
Limbo is not contributing to anything. Four Shadow clones individually
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. Through this, each summons three more to give each Limbo a Uzumaki Combo. They also have faster reflexes and speed than Juudara.[
You must be registered for see links
][
You must be registered for see links
][
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][
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] Not only did Limbo only matched Shadow Clones in combat, nothing ever suggested that they can do anything other than that.
Animal Path doesn't need much explaining based on this. [
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] This path doesn't get more powerful from being a Jin due to its function of sending out summons, which aren't being powered up.
Yasaka Magatamas were already countered by V1 Tails.[
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]
Susanoo gets taken down with Chakra Avatar. It was more than capable of combating PS without kill intention.[
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]-[
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]-[
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] It doesn't help that his
You must be registered for see links
, who pushed Perfect Susanoo with those. Even at low chakra, he created four Shadow Clones, who
You must be registered for see links
, which is far above PS.
Fire Style isn't doing anything to him; not one bit.[
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]
Wood Style is absolutely doing nothing to Naruto. Especially giving he can have
You must be registered for see links
to:
- Fly and bombard with Rasenshurikens giving that a
You must be registered for see links
destroyed Jukai Kotan in this manner.
- Wood Dragons will be more of a nuisance to him than a threat since it has to be in
You must be registered for see links
. Even then, he
You must be registered for see links
.
Destructive and quick hit attacks is a good response for Mokuton. They are only durable based on thickness and are only most effective on the ground. Three or more clones fly above Mokuton Giants,
You must be registered for see links
, and bombard them with Continuous TBB. It's a very damaging move and can be charged quickly.[
You must be registered for see links
]-[
You must be registered for see links
]
Or just use COTBBRS to send everything into kingdom come.
Sasuke:
Truth Seeker Orbs are countered by either
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or
You must be registered for see links
. It is shown that they will force into detonation if a technique has enough force to do so. Not only this, we saw throughout VOTE clash, Naruto has almost never used his Orbs. Meaning that it was useless to do so.
If he himself has never used it, then there's no way Madara can do the same. There is also the fact that they can be damaged just from these attacks.[
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][
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] Sasuke's arsenal overall are tiers above it. Or he can
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between an orb and himself to reach him.
Tailed Beast Balls as mentioned before are very deadly attacks. If multiple trees are summoned, Sasuke use
You must be registered for see links
or
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to cut them down. Since this is a VOTE Sasuke, these attacks are tiers more powerful than EMS.
Perfect Susanoo also can be summoned immediately and make quick work since:
- One slash
You must be registered for see links
; Sasuke's PS sliced a
You must be registered for see links
.
- Those mountains and meteors are tiers enormous to the tree summoned.
Since Madara would use Red Yang Barrier, he can fly quickly and slash them from afar. Even then, the barrier doesn't help if the TBB trees can be destroyed.
As for Chibaku Tensei, this would basically function a trump card for Rinnegan. If these were used against Sasuke, he makes his own
You must be registered for see links
. Enough to
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and cause a collison. Rendering them useless.
Sasuke only created CTs of those size since large ones weren't needed to trap Tailed Beasts inside. This is indicated that unlike Madara, he actually used targets as cores for the meteors. Making it superior to what he did. Even then,
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and smack him before even given a chance of using it.
Preta Path isn't doing anything. Again, Madara can't cast Ninjutsu and use this path simultaneuosly. There is also PS slashes being physical attacks, which can not be absorb. He will get cut down if he ever tries this. Sasuke distracts using Amaterasu, forcing him to absorb. This is followed by
You must be registered for see links
with
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. Madara is unlikely going to react since Naruto barely was able to.
Madara can only use Limbos for a
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before being used again. Should these attack,
You must be registered for see links
is viable since Sage-based attacks
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. Kagutsuchi Spikes repels them back until time is up.[
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]
Yasaka Beads will be deflected by another set beads.
Perfect Susanoo will be countered by another Perfect Susanoo. It's really that simple. An edge would be that his can still trade blows with Naruto's Chakra Avatar. Amenojikara supplements this to catch Madara off guard. A relentless beating will be done until Madara's Susanoo goes down.
Fire Style doesn't need much explaining.[
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]
Wood Style was a petty argument used in this matchup. They can be sliced down simply with PS. This or they can be burned down with barrages of Enton.[
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][
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]
Even then, Sasuke can fly out of reach and bisect Mokuton Giants. Considering that they are also
You must be registered for see links
. Perfect Kurama Susanoo fusion
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. This technique is much superior to all other Wood Style since
You must be registered for see links
. Rinnegan PS is gaps superior to the fusion.
Now...
If anyone has any objections to the points I made, feel free to post. But in a more appropiate manner. Posting in a butthurt way doesn't cut it, since it won't refute anything. I can take disagreements and reasons I'm wrong. But wank and blatant blank assertions are a different matter.
Kick-ass thread BlastIt. Just wanted to also mention that as a team that Sasuke could cover Naruto's Avatar with PS, leading to yet another deadly combo.
I agree
Naruto>Madara, high diff
Madara>Sasuke mid diff(because I don't see how Sasuke will bypass Madara's hax regeneration)
Naruto and Sasuke>Madara, low diff.
Okay, so I was requested by a few members to post this match up (NS vs Madara). The usual consensus is that JJ Madara can stomp them individually, let alone as a team. I myself actually think this whole Madara wank is ridiculous.
In this case, I will properly address otherwise. Basically, why Naruto and Sasuke's abilities argubly surpass Madara's own. Or at least, debunking the whole wank of him getting an easy victory, when it isn't a stomp like its made out to be.
First, Madara asserted that with both powers plus immortality he can defeat them. However, he also noted that they both are not the same as they were before. Not even taking into account that they didn't use everything against him.
[
You must be registered for see links
]->[
You must be registered for see links
]
Now down to the establishments.
Naruto:
Truth Seeker Orbs are countered by
You must be registered for see links
and
You must be registered for see links
. Naruto also has shown instances that he is skilled with shape manipulation. [
You must be registered for see links
][
You must be registered for see links
]
He has superior shape manipulation due to two mechanics being used together for TBBRS. Hiruzen compared
You must be registered for see links
. Rasengan by itself was already considered the
You must be registered for see links
. By him combining Rasenshuriken's principles with his orbs, he created a
You must be registered for see links
opposed what Juubito and Juudara has displayed. No way TSO are helping Madara.
Tailed Beast Bombs are another deadly attacks that Juubi Jins can create. Madara can possibly summon
You must be registered for see links
. Shinnju in its final form has only shown this, since its no longer a raging beast that fires through the mouth.
Naruto immediately use either FRS variants to destroy them.[
You must be registered for see links
][
You must be registered for see links
][
You must be registered for see links
] A regular Rasenshuriken sliced
You must be registered for see links
. By scaling, they are around the same size and height range as the TBB tree. He also can use
You must be registered for see links
to make a quicker finish. With these, he cuts down the trees quick enough to halt TBBs charging; thus rendering them useless.
If Juudara used
You must be registered for see links
which he likely will, Naruto can:
- Flying to one end and extend Chakra Arms to tear down the barrier like Juubito.[
You must be registered for see links
][
You must be registered for see links
]
- Blasting through the barrier with a very large bomb.[
You must be registered for see links
]
It was needed so all of the intended target can be caught or else they become more avoidable. Even then, it doesn't mean much if those Tree Cannons can be erased.
Chibaku Tensei is Madara's most powerful Rinnegan Tech. As a Juubi Jin, he created multiple CTs meteors. Each of them is larger than Nagato's and there are obviously more of them. This was canonically countered by six Chou Odama TBBRS.[
You must be registered for see links
]-[
You must be registered for see links
]
An overlooked detail is that
You must be registered for see links
for CT to end. The only reason why Naruto destroyed all of them was his teammates. They were at risk for collateral damage, so all of it had to be vaporized. Another one is that TBBRS themselves
You must be registered for see links
. Naruto is not limited to nine TBBRS. Even then, they can be
You must be registered for see links
.
Preta Path is a no go. It can not be used while casting Ninjutsu at the same time. It contradicts with
You must be registered for see links
, which is the exact opposite of casting jutsu. If Madara use this path, he cannot use other techs along with it. Another weakness is how much can the technique absorb in one succession. Edo Madara
You must be registered for see links
before he absorbed it. Juudara himself did not absorb Naruto's LRS and instead resorted to Limbo. So using this to absorb his techniques is a bunk.
Limbo is not contributing to anything. Four Shadow clones individually
You must be registered for see links
. Through this, each summons three more to give each Limbo a Uzumaki Combo. They also have faster reflexes and speed than Juudara.[
You must be registered for see links
][
You must be registered for see links
][
You must be registered for see links
][
You must be registered for see links
] Not only did Limbo only matched Shadow Clones in combat, nothing ever suggested that they can do anything other than that.
Animal Path doesn't need much explaining based on this. [
You must be registered for see links
] This path doesn't get more powerful from being a Jin due to its function of sending out summons, which aren't being powered up.
Yasaka Magatamas were already countered by V1 Tails.[
You must be registered for see links
]
Susanoo gets taken down with Chakra Avatar. It was more than capable of combating PS without kill intention.[
You must be registered for see links
]-[
You must be registered for see links
]-[
You must be registered for see links
] It doesn't help that his
You must be registered for see links
, who pushed Perfect Susanoo with those. Even at low chakra, he created four Shadow Clones, who
You must be registered for see links
, which is far above PS.
Fire Style isn't doing anything to him; not one bit.[
You must be registered for see links
]
Wood Style is absolutely doing nothing to Naruto. Especially giving he can have
You must be registered for see links
to:
- Fly and bombard with Rasenshurikens giving that a
You must be registered for see links
destroyed Jukai Kotan in this manner.
- Wood Dragons will be more of a nuisance to him than a threat since it has to be in
You must be registered for see links
. Even then, he
You must be registered for see links
.
Destructive and quick hit attacks is a good response for Mokuton. They are only durable based on thickness and are only most effective on the ground. Three or more clones fly above Mokuton Giants,
You must be registered for see links
, and bombard them with Continuous TBB. It's a very damaging move and can be charged quickly.[
You must be registered for see links
]-[
You must be registered for see links
]
Or just use COTBBRS to send everything into kingdom come.
Sasuke:
Truth Seeker Orbs are countered by either
You must be registered for see links
or
You must be registered for see links
. It is shown that they will force into detonation if a technique has enough force to do so. Not only this, we saw throughout VOTE clash, Naruto has almost never used his Orbs. Meaning that it was useless to do so.
If he himself has never used it, then there's no way Madara can do the same. There is also the fact that they can be damaged just from these attacks.[
You must be registered for see links
][
You must be registered for see links
] Sasuke's arsenal overall are tiers above it. Or he can
You must be registered for see links
between an orb and himself to reach him.
Tailed Beast Balls as mentioned before are very deadly attacks. If multiple trees are summoned, Sasuke use
You must be registered for see links
or
You must be registered for see links
to cut them down. Since this is a VOTE Sasuke, these attacks are tiers more powerful than EMS.
Perfect Susanoo also can be summoned immediately and make quick work since:
- One slash
You must be registered for see links
; Sasuke's PS sliced a
You must be registered for see links
.
- Those mountains and meteors are tiers enormous to the tree summoned.
Since Madara would use Red Yang Barrier, he can fly quickly and slash them from afar. Even then, the barrier doesn't help if the TBB trees can be destroyed.
As for Chibaku Tensei, this would basically function a trump card for Rinnegan. If these were used against Sasuke, he makes his own
You must be registered for see links
. Enough to
You must be registered for see links
and cause a collison. Rendering them useless.
Sasuke only created CTs of those size since large ones weren't needed to trap Tailed Beasts inside. This is indicated that unlike Madara, he actually used targets as cores for the meteors. Making it superior to what he did. Even then,
You must be registered for see links
and smack him before even given a chance of using it.
Preta Path isn't doing anything. Again, Madara can't cast Ninjutsu and use this path simultaneuosly. There is also PS slashes being physical attacks, which can not be absorb. He will get cut down if he ever tries this. Sasuke distracts using Amaterasu, forcing him to absorb. This is followed by
You must be registered for see links
with
You must be registered for see links
. Madara is unlikely going to react since Naruto barely was able to.
Madara can only use Limbos for a
You must be registered for see links
before being used again. Should these attack,
You must be registered for see links
is viable since Sage-based attacks
You must be registered for see links
. Kagutsuchi Spikes repels them back until time is up.[
You must be registered for see links
]
Yasaka Beads will be deflected by another set beads.
Perfect Susanoo will be countered by another Perfect Susanoo. It's really that simple. An edge would be that his can still trade blows with Naruto's Chakra Avatar. Amenojikara supplements this to catch Madara off guard. A relentless beating will be done until Madara's Susanoo goes down.
Fire Style doesn't need much explaining.[
You must be registered for see links
]
Wood Style was a petty argument used in this matchup. They can be sliced down simply with PS. This or they can be burned down with barrages of Enton.[
You must be registered for see links
][
You must be registered for see links
]
Even then, Sasuke can fly out of reach and bisect Mokuton Giants. Considering that they are also
You must be registered for see links
. Perfect Kurama Susanoo fusion
You must be registered for see links
. This technique is much superior to all other Wood Style since
You must be registered for see links
. Rinnegan PS is gaps superior to the fusion.
Now...
If anyone has any objections to the points I made, feel free to post. But in a more appropiate manner. Posting in a butthurt way doesn't cut it, since it won't refute anything. I can take disagreements and reasons I'm wrong. But wank and blatant blank assertions are a different matter.
Naruto People forget that Ashura Avatar requires tons of Natural energy which Naruto needs tons of time to gather all that Natural energy it's not gonna happen when Madara will be able to sense Naruto gathering it and put a stop to it.
Kurama Avatar would be put down by PS which would theoretically be stronger than Kurama Avatar due to the fact that
Six Paths Senjutsu + Rikudo Chakra>Six Paths Senjutsu.
Clones are useless when Madara can counter them with Mokuton and Limbo clones plus Madara can tell which one's the Original so he'll just go after the original and Rasenshuriken and Rasengan variants get absorbed with Preta Path. Plus Mokuton isn't as useless as you think. If Naruto goes ahead and fires of TBB Madara can just throw it back at him.
Chibaku Tensei and Limbo clones keep Naruto busy just like in Cannon and in that time Madara cast IT to get rid of Naruto. If Naruto decides to Kyuubi Avatar to blow up the Chibaku Tensei. Madara just makes them Bigger. Madara can regnerate from all of Naruto's attacks within seconds
Sasuke With the use of Mokuton Clones which could theoretically use Perfect Susano'o Madara would keep Sasuke busy enough for him to charge up a Quad Juubi TBB and he uses the Red Yang Barrier so the Quad Juubi TBB are actually more focused. He uses BT to pull Sasuke's Susano'o from the sky into the Red Yang Barrier and his Susano'o proceeds to get eradicated by the TBB.
You're going to say that Sasuke is going to realize that Madara is prepping a Quad Juubi TBB however Sasuke didn't even realize that Naruto was gathering Natural energy until it was actually transferred back to the original so he can keep him busy while the Real Madara is actually prepping the TBB.
There's a Major difference between the Scale of Madara's Rinnegan Techniques and Sasuke's. Sasuke's is on a way lower scale than Madara's.
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Sasuke's Chibaku Tensei wasn't even as big as the Shinju trunk while only one of Madara's Chibaku Tensei Satellites is about the same size as the Shinju trunk. Madara's Chibaku Tensei makes Sasuke's look like a Joke. If they were to clash Madara's would easily prevail and remember what Madara did was casual he didn't even break a sweat.
Madara can easily avoid a Blitz coming from Sasuke. He uses a Rib Cage Susano'o to so Sasuke can't hit him while in CQC and then he uses Fire Style: Hiding in Ash Jutsu to make Amenotejikara useless due to the fact he can't swap with anything he can't see. Even if he does hit him so what. Madara just regenerates and takes anything Sasuke has to throw at him.
While Madara's PS would be weaker than Sasuke's Bijuu PS it would actually be stronger then Sasuke's ordinary PS and he can theoretically do what Naruto did is use Mokuton Clones that can use Perfect Susano'o to combat Sasuke's Bijuu Perfect Susano'o long enough until his TBB are ready to go.
Kick-ass thread BlastIt. Just wanted to also mention that as a team that Sasuke could cover Naruto's Avatar with PS, leading to yet another deadly combo.
Naruto- If Madara attempts to use Shinra Tensei against Naruto, not only will the lower powered versions be resisted by his avatar, but if Kokuo's Steam Release is applied to the
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to propel himself forward, Naruto may be able to turn the force back upon Madara just like 6T Naruto did to Pein [
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]. This would give Naruto the chance to directly attack while Madara is trying to halt his momentum or charge up a TBB or FRS variant. Since the bijuu aren't under Sasuke's genjutsu in this fight, Naruto would still be able to access the individual abilities of the bijuu.
Sasuke- A large portion of Madara's defensive capability comes from his TSBs. Anytime Sasuke initiates an attack, Madara will likely use those orbs to defend himself. He uses at least 2 or more to form a shield
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, and since they are combined as a singular object, they can be swapped with. Also, Sasuke can always use Amenotejikara to swap Madara's body by itself, independent of the TSBs. Minato and Tobirama's FTG was able to do the same with Juubito [
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]. The range in which TSBs can be controlled is
You must be registered for see links
as stated by Minato; if we look at the distance in which Sasuke's Susano'o teleported to attack Naruto at the VoTE as compared to the size of their avatars [
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], that distance is likely greater than 230ft, meaning all ten TSBs could be taken away from Madara with a single move by Sasuke while also leaving him susceptible to attack.
Great thread. Naruto could one shot if madara decides to absorb chou bijuu RS. The only way to undo that transformation is to absorb additional chakra something only kaguya could do. (
nice arguments, for sasuke ps chidori would be a good move to use as well, forms the chidori on ps then uses amenotejikara with the ps and blizes with the attack, could be deadly.
This is Rinnegan Maddy right? In that case Madara can use multiple paths at once just like Nagato did against Bee and Naruto. The dude used Preta, Human, and Asura path all at once. The biggest difference in the fight between Madara and Sasuke is experience. Sasuke can copy any attack Madara uses easily. That is honestly how Sasuke got the techs he used at VOTE.
If u are talking about Juubi jin Madara Yeah, even if FRS slashes the TBB they still go off and create a huge explosion. Rikudou Sage Mode also makes it so that Madara can pull literally any jutsu out of his arse seeing how it makes one a master of chakra in all forms. Sasuke can't really do anything agains Juubi sized TBBs either. At most in susano'o we have seen him surpass his teleportation range so he may be able to get out of the blast radius.
Anyway alone 699 and below Sasuke loses to 3 eyed JJ Madara low diff. ( little to no experience and immature eye)
Naruto loses to him mid diff. (Rinnegan makes up for Naruto's upper hand in reflexes and speed) Preta Path is a killer and it can be used along while using other jutsu.
And just so ppl know that I am not bias. I am a true blue Sasuke fan, but I know his limits :|
Naruto- If Madara attempts to use Shinra Tensei against Naruto, not only will the lower powered versions be resisted by his avatar, but if Kokuo's Steam Release is applied to the
You must be registered for see links
to propel himself forward, Naruto may be able to turn the force back upon Madara just like 6T Naruto did to Pein [
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]. This would give Naruto the chance to directly attack while Madara is trying to halt his momentum or charge up a TBB or FRS variant. Since the bijuu aren't under Sasuke's genjutsu in this fight, Naruto would still be able to access the individual abilities of the bijuu.
Sasuke- A large portion of Madara's defensive capability comes from his TSBs. Anytime Sasuke initiates an attack, Madara will likely use those orbs to defend himself. He uses at least 2 or more to form a shield
You must be registered for see links
, and since they are combined as a singular object, they can be swapped with. Also, Sasuke can always use Amenotejikara to swap Madara's body by itself, independent of the TSBs. Minato and Tobirama's FTG was able to do the same with Juubito [
You must be registered for see links
]. The range in which TSBs can be controlled is
You must be registered for see links
as stated by Minato; if we look at the distance in which Sasuke's Susano'o teleported to attack Naruto at the VoTE as compared to the size of their avatars [
You must be registered for see links
], that distance is likely greater than 230ft, meaning all ten TSBs could be taken away from Madara with a single move by Sasuke while also leaving him susceptible to attack.
Steam release takes time and can be evaded with Madara's Limbo substitute. And it is also possible that Naruto just couldn't use the TB chakra because he only had a little left.
Sasuke taking away Madara's TSB isn't that big of a deal unless Sasuke absorbs them with Preta or something. If Sasuke can absorb the chakra from that that is the only chance I see of Sasuke beating him because that would give Sasuke the necessary power to face Maddy. Without it though any Rinnegan technique Sasuke pulls Madara can do it on a much bigger scale Because of being a Juubi jinchuuriki. Madara also is much more experienced and can use all senpou KKG
Naruto People forget that Ashura Avatar requires tons of Natural energy which Naruto needs tons of time to gather all that Natural energy it's not gonna happen when Madara will be able to sense Naruto gathering it and put a stop to it.
Sasuke can sense Nature Energy, yet he didn't sense Naruto gathering it. No reason to believe Madara will either, not to mention he'll be busy fighting Naruto anyway, he won't have time to worry about a clone.
Kurama Avatar would be put down by PS which would theoretically be stronger than Kurama Avatar due to the fact that
Six Paths Senjutsu + Rikudo Chakra>Six Paths Senjutsu.
Even though I agree that Madara's PS should be above the Kurama Avatar, this line of thinking doesn't make sense. Six Path's Senjutsu is merely an ability gained from Rikudo Chakra. Naruto's Avatar is equal to Sasuke's despite him having Rikudo Senjutsu "and" Hagoromo's chakra.
Clones are useless when Madara can counter them with Mokuton and Limbo clones plus Madara can tell which one's the Original so he'll just go after the original and Rasenshuriken and Rasengan variants get absorbed with Preta Path. Plus Mokuton isn't as useless as you think. If Naruto goes ahead and fires of TBB Madara can just throw it back at him.
Mokuton is fodder, not sure why you are even mentioning it here. Unless Madara has something that's larger than the Shinju in scale, there's no use mentioning it, cause Rikudo Sage Mode Naruto w/o the Bijuu cloak one shotted the Shinju.
Madara has no Mokuton Jutsu that's strong enough to catch RSM Naruto's Bijuu Dama, not to mention Naruto has BDFRS, which he can't catch.
Chibaku Tensei and Limbo clones keep Naruto busy just like in Cannon and in that time Madara cast IT to get rid of Naruto. If Naruto decides to Kyuubi Avatar to blow up the Chibaku Tensei. Madara just makes them Bigger. Madara can regnerate from all of Naruto's attacks within seconds
Or Naruto makes clones, and then he nukes CT and stops Madara from casting Infinite Tsukuyomi all at the same time.
Sasuke With the use of Mokuton Clones which could theoretically use Perfect Susano'o Madara would keep Sasuke busy enough for him to charge up a Quad Juubi TBB and he uses the Red Yang Barrier so the Quad Juubi TBB are actually more focused. He uses BT to pull Sasuke's Susano'o from the sky into the Red Yang Barrier and his Susano'o proceeds to get eradicated by the TBB.
Bijuu PS would obliterate Madara's Susanoo clones with little effort, and there's also the fact that instead of wasting time with them, Sasuke can go take care of the tree Madara is using to form Bijuu Dama. Using the barrier only makes it easier for Sasuke to escape since he'll be able to warp out of the barrier, meaning the Bijuu Dama goes off and no one gets hurt, regardless of BT attracting him or not.
You're going to say that Sasuke is going to realize that Madara is prepping a Quad Juubi TBB however Sasuke didn't even realize that Naruto was gathering Natural energy until it was actually transferred back to the original so he can keep him busy while the Real Madara is actually prepping the TBB.
Completely different situation. Sasuke had smacked that Naruto clone away, he thought it was done for. If Madara makes the same barrier Obito made, he's clearly going to realize that he's trying to use Bijuu Dama, and when he does that, he teleports down and cuts the tree, or teleports out of the barrier to evade it at the last minute.
There's a Major difference between the Scale of Madara's Rinnegan Techniques and Sasuke's. Sasuke's is on a way lower scale than Madara's.
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Sasuke's Chibaku Tensei wasn't even as big as the Shinju trunk while only one of Madara's Chibaku Tensei Satellites is about the same size as the Shinju trunk. Madara's Chibaku Tensei makes Sasuke's look like a Joke. If they were to clash Madara's would easily prevail and remember what Madara did was casual he didn't even break a sweat.
Sasuke's Chibaku Tensei weren't that big because he didn't need to make them that big. Madara's were that big because he needed to make them that big to be a distraction. Madara's Rinnegan techniques>Sasuke's, but this logic is flawed beyond belief.
Madara can easily avoid a Blitz coming from Sasuke. He uses a Rib Cage Susano'o to so Sasuke can't hit him while in CQC and then he uses Fire Style: Hiding in Ash Jutsu to make Amenotejikara useless due to the fact he can't swap with anything he can't see. Even if he does hit him so what. Madara just regenerates and takes anything Sasuke has to throw at him.
Ribcage won't make a difference when he can use Amenotejikara w/ Susanoo. He'd tear through said Ribcage and obliterate Madara. Hiding in Ash Jutsu isn't going to matter either since the scale of PS's techniques pretty much make hiding useless. One attack and he'll still catch Madara.
While Madara's PS would be weaker than Sasuke's Bijuu PS it would actually be stronger then Sasuke's ordinary PS and he can theoretically do what Naruto did is use Mokuton Clones that can use Perfect Susano'o to combat Sasuke's Bijuu Perfect Susano'o long enough until his TBB are ready to go.
Already replied to above. This ends with Indra's Arrow blowing Madara to bits, and then Sasuke using the Bijuu's chakra to take Madara's Bijuu out of his body after he's been weakened. Same with Naruto.
Let's keep this clean and respectful. Just on the side-note; your entire argumentation revolves around what Madara has strictly shown. You can't argue like this. He has potential feats but haven't got the chance to show them, due to plot reasons.
Naruto:
Truth Seeker Orbs are countered by his immunity to them and having his own TSOs. Naruto also has shown instances that he is skilled with shape manipulation. [X][X]
He has superior shape manipulation due to two mechanics being used together for TBBRS. Hiruzen compared TSOs' shaping to Onoki's Jinton. Rasengan by itself was already considered the acme of shape manipulation. By him combining Rasenshuriken's principles with his orbs, he created a superior variation opposed what Juubito and Juudara has displayed. No way TSO are helping Madara.
The Gududama wouldn't be relevant for both sides, since as you said, they have immunity for each other. So the battle isn't basing on this.
Naruto immediately use either FRS variants to destroy them.[X][X][X] A regular Rasenshuriken sliced multiple structures far larger than Naruto himself. By scaling, they are around the same size and height range as the TBB tree. He also can use Multiple Rasenshuriken to make a quicker finish. With these, he cuts down the trees quick enough to halt TBBs charging; thus rendering them useless.
The summoned tree wasn't damaged by the fire-shots of Bijuu Dama that Obito fired. Why would FRS would do such thing, when Juubi TBB failed to do so?
If Juudara used Six Red Yang Barrier which he likely will, Naruto can:
- Flying to one end and extend Chakra Arms to tear down the barrier like Juubito.[1][2]
- Blasting through the barrier with a very large bomb.[X]
-You're assuming Naruto packs as much raw power as Juubi Jinchuuriki. Furthermore, that barrier was by Hokage; this one is by Juubi Jinchuuriki, and stronger one than Obito. Nothing suggests he could burst it through raw power alone.
-The barrier tanked 4 TBB of the Juubi. Naruto's TBB feats haven't came close to the output AOE Juubi could casually do. And also, if he's blowing the barrier up, he's going to hurt himself as well.
It was needed so all of the intended target can be caught or else they become more avoidable. Even then, it doesn't mean much if those Tree Cannons can be erased.
That's assuming the only way to perform TBB is by summoning trees. It could be done by going on Juubi mode.
Chibaku Tensei is Madara's most powerful Rinnegan Tech. As a Juubi Jin, he created multiple CTs meteors. Each of them is larger than Nagato's and there are obviously more of them. This was canonically countered by six Chou Odama TBBRS.[1]-[2]
His most powerful based on what? But regardless, he stated the CT were ''raindrops''; he could obviously make far larger ones with being supplied with unlimited Chakra of Juubi and Rikudou's. And after such great size, Naruto wouldn't have the fire-power to take them out.
Preta Path is a no go. It can not be used while casting Ninjutsu at the same time. It contradicts with reverse chakra circulation, which is the exact opposite of casting jutsu. If Madara use this path, he cannot use other techs along with it. Another weakness is how much can the technique absorb in one succession. Edo Madara saw how dense Rasenshuriken was before he absorbed it. Juudara himself did not absorb Naruto's LRS and instead resorted to Limbo. So using this to absorb his techniques is a bunk.
He used Preta Path and Susanoo (before it was faded) simultaneously. [
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] Nagato also used Naraka Path and Human Path while absorbing Naruto's Rasengan; meaning it can be used with Ninjutsu at the same time. We don't know what he actually meant by ''that's a bit too much'' when absorbing FRS. He could have meant the fact it's ''too much'' by him possessing Rinnegan along with his EMS and young body, which later on had conversation with Kabuto about what he did to his body. Madara is Juubi Jinchuuriki, and grasps the planet's Natural Energy. To say he cannot absorb a little portion of Senjutsu from FRS, yet is able to contain planet's Senjutsu, is complete fallacy.
Susanoo gets taken down with Chakra Avatar. It was more than capable of combating PS without kill intention.[1]-[2]-[3] It doesn't help that his Chakra Arms stalemated Kaguya's, who pushed Perfect Susanoo with those. Even at low chakra, he created four Shadow Clones, who stalemated Bijuu PS's attacks, which is far above PS.
Neither Naruto's avatar or Sasuke's PS is anywhere near the offering of a Juubi Jinchuuriki could do. Not even close. Their avatars are result of Chakra manifestation, and Juubi's Chakra > Hagoromo's Chakra. Since Madara's PS is manifested by the materials of Juubi's Chakra, and add the fact he could fuse it with Juubi mode, like he did with Kurama, then you have power completely out of Naruto's league. To give you a closer look, this is how it looks like:
This is the Bijuu Dama Juubi fired which was teleported by Minato:
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It's radius range is highly above anything Naruto and Sasuke showed. Scale that power with Juubi manifested Perfect Susanoo, and Naruto has no chance at all.
Wood Style is absolutely doing nothing to Naruto. Especially giving he can have multiple clones to:
- Fly and bombard with Rasenshurikens giving that a base clone with a portion of Kurama's chakra destroyed Jukai Kotan in this manner.
- Wood Dragons will be more of a nuisance to him than a threat since it has to be in reach and wrestle him down. Even then, he escaped from it.
Destructive and quick hit attacks is a good response for Mokuton. They are only durable based on thickness and are only most effective on the ground. Three or more clones fly above Mokuton Giants, summon Kurama's head, and bombard them with Continuous TBB. It's a very damaging move and can be charged quickly.[1]-[2]
Once again, you're underrating the scale of Juubi Jinchuuriki attacks. Madara used Shin: Jukai Kōtan at planetary scale after being followed with Infinite Tsukuyomi at planetary scale. Naruto will waste his entire energy blowing up portions of attack that covered the global. So yes, Mokuton is completely relevant.
Sasuke:
Truth Seeker Orbs are countered by either multiple Susanoo Arrows or Yasaka Beads. It is shown that they will force into detonation if a technique has enough force to do so. Not only this, we saw throughout VOTE clash, Naruto has almost never used his Orbs. Meaning that it was useless to do so.
Tailed Beast Balls as mentioned before are very deadly attacks. If multiple trees are summoned, Sasuke use Kagutsuchi or Susanoo Swords to cut them down. Since this is a VOTE Sasuke, these attacks are tiers more powerful than EMS.
Again, this is only assuming the only way to use TBB as Juubi Jinchuuriki, is by summoning trees. It's not necessity.
As for Chibaku Tensei, this would basically function a trump card for Rinnegan. If these were used against Sasuke, he makes his own set of them. Enough to hurl against Madara's CTs and cause a collison. Rendering them useless.
Oh no. Sasuke is never matching the proportional sizes achieved by Juubi Jinchuuriki, meaning Madara's CT will shit on his.
Sasuke only created CTs of those size since large ones weren't needed to trap Tailed Beasts inside. This is indicated that unlike Madara, he actually used targets as cores for the meteors. Making it superior to what he did. Even then, he can teleport himself towards Madara and smack him before even given a chance of using it.
That's not relevant. He could wish to make as big as he wants, they will never be as large as Madara's, nor as destructive.
Preta Path isn't doing anything. Again, Madara can't cast Ninjutsu and use this path simultaneuosly. There is also PS slashes being physical attacks, which can not be absorb. He will get cut down if he ever tries this. Sasuke distracts using Amaterasu, forcing him to absorb. This is followed by Amenojikara with Chidori Sharp Spear. Madara is unlikely going to react since Naruto barely was able to.
Both characters can use Preta Path, so it's not relevant to mention this.
Madara can only use Limbos for a limited time and has a delayed start before being used again. Should these attack, Kagutsuchi Susanoo is viable since Sage-based attacks actually harm them. Kagutsuchi Spikes repels them back until time is up.[X]
That was when he had 1 Rinnegan; this one has two Rinnegan, and didn't show any time-limit for Limbo. He went on from CT to IT to back on the battlefield, which took 2/3 chapters and Limbo clones were still there. And you actually think Kagutsuchi is going to touch them? lol no. Limbo evades them effortlessly.
Perfect Susanoo will be countered by another Perfect Susanoo. It's really that simple. An edge would be that his can still trade blows with Naruto's Chakra Avatar. Amenojikara supplements this to catch Madara off guard. A relentless beating will be done until Madara's Susanoo goes down.
Madara's Perfect Susanoo > Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo. The latter is supplied by Juubi's Chakra, which is > Yin half of Hagoromo's Chakra, as well as the Rikudou Chakra Madara produces through the Rinnegan. And added he could fuse it with Juubi mode. So Madara shits on this aspect.
Wood Style was a petty argument used in this matchup. They can be sliced down simply with PS. This or they can be burned down with barrages of Enton.[X][X]
Even then, Sasuke can fly out of reach and bisect Mokuton Giants. Considering that they are also miniscle compared to CT. Perfect Kurama Susanoo fusion severely damaged Shinnsusenju. This technique is much superior to all other Wood Style since PKS destroyed them. Rinnegan PS is gaps superior to the fusion.
Yeah, even if FRS slashes the TBB they still go off and create a huge explosion. Rikudou Sage Mode also makes it so that Madara can pull literally any jutsu out of his arse seeing how it makes one a master of chakra in all forms. Sasuke can't really do anything agains Juubi sized TBBs either. At most in susano'o we have seen him surpass his teleportation range so he may be able to get out of the blast radius.