Establishing Why K11 > Tsunade

[DemonicAvenger]

Any further points from the Tsunade side? Or can we safely declare K11 > Tsunade

And dont reiterate anything i've already countered. Or anyone else has

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Any further points from the Tsunade side? Or can we safely declare K11 > Tsunade

And dont reiterate anything i've already countered. Or anyone else has

Doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, people are going to stick with what they believe. Whats safe to say is anyone who isn't a delusional Tsunade fan knows K11 wins.

 

[nakumaru]

Bump

I want to discuss this more

 

[Icelerate]

K11 win mid difficulty.

Tsunade lacks long range wide area of effect attacks to take on a large number of people. She also doesn't possess a powerful defence to protect herself from all kinds of attacks with varying effects. No, her regeneration that Tsunade fans overrate, won't suffice.

I already made a coherent post in some other Tsunade VS Konoha 11 thread and I'll repeat it:

OT: Tsunade's regeneration isn't eternal and people who can dismember her can finish her off. Shino's bugs could just leach onto Tsunade and constantly drain her chakra. They can come from underneath her feat while she is distracted by all the others. Katsuyu could counter bugs but not if they sneak up on her. Even still Katsuyu too will be busy fighting K11. If Neji and Hinata tag team her, they may be able to do significant damage against her to the extent that her regeneration will start running out especially because of Shino's bugs draining her chakra. Chouji's punches would deal devastating damage and while Tsunade is regenerating, Shikamaru could paralyse her while Sakura and all the others beat her up to a bloody pulp.

Katsuyu would pose a big problem as well as Tsunade's speed and taijutsu skills compared to most members of K11. She can dominate most of them with ease but that isn't the option against other jounin levels if they gang bang her. I know current Tsunade is leaps beyond part 1 Tsunade that fought Kabuto but people like Neji, Lee and Sai could go toe to toe with her for brief moments while she struggles from long ranged attacks coming from multiple directions.

Ino could probably take over Katsuyu and if she does that Tsunade is totally screwed.

 

[Optimistic]

This thread shows who's the desperate Tsunade fans in denial.I give props to the thread maker.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

K11 shit on Tsunade. Being a hand to hand fighter, she's going to have rivals in Lee and Neji. Neji, himself is definitely enough to hold Godaime off, his Byakugan and Gentle fist provide extra assurance that Tsunde won't be landing strikes any time soon, especially due to the Hyuuga's superior speed, and the Byakugan itself. Now, normally, Shikamaru's going to be hanging back, looking to utilize his Shadow possession technique, which, might I say, would be a walk in the park. Tsunade will be busy fending off close combatants like Neji, Hinata and Lee, thus opening the bracket for Shikamaru, she can't dodge it. If she summon Katsuyu from the beginning, Sai can bombard her within the air with his various beast scrolls. Also, Chouji can capitalize on his expansion jutsu to try and knock Tsunade off her summon, as well as Kiba using his double headed wolf: Gatsuuga. While Chouji is an easy target for Katsuyu's acid, Tsunade and Katsuyu have to weary of Sai's aerial presence, as well as Kiba's drilling strikes. Physical attacks don't work on Katsuyu, I know, but it can damage Tsunade's standings.

All in all, K11; mid diff at most.

 

[Fire Lord Azula]

how do they even kill her.
you guy say they wont let her summon she can jump in the air high enough for her to do it when she dose that katsuyu splits up then they fall down crushingthe k11.
taijustu jiriya said she unrivalled in taijustu and medical ninjustu.
her main problem is neji and shikamaru. shikamaru is not tha fast if katsuyu fire acid slime at him hes dead.
shino will diehe cant dodge he attacks.
ino gets acd slime.
sakura poses a thret being tsunade student and know her moves but sakura gets killed.
choji is useless in this fight. He will undoubtedly die by simple punch hes slow in base in butte fly mode hes huge he will get punch easily or acid slime.
Tenten she gets blitz.
neji will get her alot of trouble but while shes attcking in close range aclone can absorb him then she kills him.
hinata will get blitz
kiba is not going to be trouble if he tries close combat he will get punch or katsuy overwhelm him then tsunade punch.
lee really wont do much she can survie all his moves. if he tries close moves with the gates she can still hit him she have fast enouh reaction time to counter attack one of his moves.

overall this can go both ways iam not being bisaed.
tsunade lacks feats and justus a till she show something thats longe range she loses 6/10 times.

 

[Lord Oro]

1. Just how many paintings can make before he runs out of chakra? And btw, what is Sai doing here? I thought this is a K11 vs Tsunade fight.

yeah, Sai isn't part of K11, OP put BM Naruto.

 

[TheEvilOne]

Tsunade mid difficulty. She can oneshot half of them with a heavenly kick of pain.

 

[Red Slayer]

First and foremost, no fanon will be taken into account on this thread. Statements like "Shes a Sanin! no way a bunch of Chunin/Jonin can do anything to her!" will be ignored.
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Composition of the K11 in this thread:

Sakura, Kiba, Shino, Hinata, Ino, Shikamaru, Choji, Neji, Lee, Ten-Ten, Sai

Conditions:

Everyone is fully rested and healthy. Mindset is Bloodlusted but calm and fight in character.

Intel:

Full

Location:

Atop the Hokage Mansion

Distance:

Tsunade starts at the railing facing the cluster of the the K11 that stands in the middle of the ring. The combatants are allowed to move about the entire village as they please without worry of damage to the buildings. Civilians have been evacuated.


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Explanation:

Now, Im going to be doing this a bit diffrently than before in my other threads. Since they're so many combatants this time and Range isn't something that accounted for since its a group effort. I'll be more or less showing how the K11 will take this and cover as much ground on Tsunade's abilities as possible and how they counter them.


In this fight Neji, Kiba, and Lee will be the main offensive against Tsunade. Choji will be the main Deterant of Katsuya if she is summoned, otherwise Choji will also be fighting Tsunade. The other ninja's have their roles to play, Sakura will be there for healing, Shikamaru will be looking for an opening to land Kagemane, Ten-Ten will be constantly harrasing Tusnade with Kunai and ninja tools to coax a mistake out of her, Shino will play a double role in using countless insects to feed on her chakra and also poison her with poisones insect which in turn will also burn through her chakra faster to remove the poison and also allow the others to attack her. Ino will be playing piggyback off of Shikamaru's Justu and be wainting for him to land Kagemane to combo into ****enshin. Ino could also provide basic medical treatment if Sakura is tied up.

Lastly, Sai plays a crucial role here. He also plays back up like other ninja's to constantly force Tsunade to tank attacks and heal, but he brings to the table one feat of speed that Tsunade cannot counter.

I will now go into each individuals jobs in this battle and go more in-depth than above.

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Sakura:In a word, Healing. She will be there to to heal any possible injuries that will be inflicted upon her team. If the chance arrives, she can use her own Chakra enhanced Strength to land a blow on Tsunade. Harrasment with exploding tags is also a possibility. Also, her extensive training with Tsunade gives her a leg up on dodging Tsuande's attacks. During training, Tsunade even said she wasn't holding back when it came to landing a blow. She will be familiar with the way Tsunade moves when she wants to attack a certain way, so she can warn the others to jump if HKoP is on the way, or if Tsunade is going to try shattering the ground.

Kiba:One of the Frontline fighters in this battle. Gatsuuga and Tsuuga will his main tools in attacking Tsunade. This will go unabided due to the constant other danger's she'll have to deal with from the other Ninja's. Kiba's main job is to keep landing blows on Tsunade so she has to keep burning chakra to heal. Garoga would be will be used whenever needed and will burn more of Tsunade's Chakra than the normal Tsuugas.

Shino:Shino plays but one role in this battle, and that is to keep Tsunade under a hail of insects. These insects will force her to burn yet even more chakra than the massive amount she is going to need to keep healing. His secondary objective is to use poisonous insects to ail her. She will have to extract these poison's herself which wont be possible while constantly fighting off Neji, Kiba, and Lee and all the harrasment of other attacks.

Hinata: Hinata plays an odd role in this battle. She lacks the physical capabilities of going hand to hand with Tsunade like some of the others, but it is her only way of fighting. So, in this battle her main objective is the keep back far enough that she isn't engagin Tsunade, but close enough that she can jump in and attack when needed. She can also harrass Tsunade with Air Palm or combo this with Neji's Air Palm to create a stronger single strike. When she jumps in, it must be when she is absolutely sure that she is guarenteed hit and she must target vital organs to ensure that Tsunade burns as much Chakra as possible from healing this wound.

Ino:Ino's main role will be basic medical attention, but her main offensive measure against Tsunade is ****enshin. She wont have to worry much about when to land it, since Shikamaru essentially will do that for her. If Ino See's that Shikamaru has landed Kagemane, she will launch ****enshin and posses her. She from there will give the rest of the team to attack. (Choji's Butterly Bomb is a good choice)

Shikamaru:Strategy is Shikmaru's main role in this battle. He will be in the rear looking for a chance to land Kagemane (easily accomplishable since she will be distracted with the myriad of other things) This reprieve from the actual fight will allow Shikamaru to formulate a plan unhindered (although its likely it wont be needed). Basic exploding tags could also be used as a deterant.

Choji:Summon control is Choji's part to play in this fight. If Tsunade manages to release Katsuya (not a guarenteed) then Choji will be the one to deal with her until the Coup de' grace will landed on Tsunade. His butterfly bomb is in turn, the perfect blow to end Tsunade. Largely due to Tsunade's body not being able to funtion if her brain is destroyed, in turn making Byakugo useless.

Neji:Neji along with Lee, are the only one's that will be trading blows in the traditional fashion with Tsunade. His main role is to shut down her chakra points, essentailly shutting down her ability to heal even with byakugo. Secondary objective is to attack vital organs to wittle her chakra down even further.

Neji more than anyone else in the K11, is able to go hand to hand with Tsunade. With the Byakugan he can see her chakra and will give him a heads up when he see's her focusing chakra in her palm or foot. Tsunade's Straightforward fighting style will also be a major downfall when combined with her gap in speed compared to Neji. Allowing him easy openings to land blows on the tenketsu or vital organs.

Lee: Lee in base's objective is little more than to keep her attention even further seperated to allow for the myriad of other jutsu's to land. When he see's her slowing down and getting tired, He will activate Gates and land his ownly meaningfull way to harm her in Ura Renge. Ura Renge is also meant just to wittle down her stamina.

Ten-Ten: Ten-Ten has one role and that is to constantly keep the ninja tools coming to, like others, wittle down her chakra and keep her distracted so other attacks can land that have the same purpose.


Sai:Sai as said earlier in the OP plays a key role. His paintings are just another form of harrasement, but he has one thing that can set up an unavoidable opening for others with his attack that in any circumstance is also unavoidable by any means.

The two scans below show one of Sai's Blitze's on Ninja far faster than Tsunade. The Ninja's in question, one of which was able to dodge multiple Hebi Sasuke blitzes, was absolutely blitzed in every fashion of the word. These two ninja's were completely incapable of even turning their heads before the attack landed, and since the attack went under these ninja, this makes this the perfect counter to HKoP

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All in all, The K11 have this wrapped up neatly.

agree + rep.

 

[Micho22]

tsunade kills them all
byakugou makes the difference here
tsunade leaves them in such a bad state you cant even imaging
most of the konoha 11 are fodder against her

 

[Red Slayer]

yeah, Sai isn't part of K11, OP put BM Naruto.

hahaahaaha

 

[nakumaru]

yeah, Sai isn't part of K11, OP put BM Naruto.

Where is Naruto in this thread.....

 

[Icelerate]

Anyway Katsuyu will only be used against Tsunade. As soon as the slug is summoned, Ino can use mind transfer and take over. Then it becomes K11 + Katsuyu VS Tsunade. In this situation, the fight is won by K11 with pretty low difficulty if you ask me.

 

[TheEvilOne]

Anyway Katsuyu will only be used against Tsunade. As soon as the slug is summoned, Ino can use mind transfer and take over. Then it becomes K11 + Katsuyu VS Tsunade. In this situation, the fight is won by K11 with pretty low difficulty if you ask me.

And how long can she control that slug? And what if Katsuyu splits before Ino can use her jutsu? Tsunade is not a fool, she knows EVERYTHING about her chuunins/ jounins.

 

[Icelerate]

And how long can she control that slug? And what if Katsuyu splits before Ino can use her jutsu? Tsunade is not a fool, she knows EVERYTHING about her chuunins/ jounins.

Ino will use mind transfer before Katsuyu splits. Mind transfer is faster than a slug splitting.

Ino should be able to control it for a long time since slugs have weaker will power compared to humans and are less intelligent. During the written portion of the exams, Ino controlled Sakura for half a minute and then went on to control Shikamaru and Chouji and wrote the exam for them. IIRC, she can control a human for 5 minutes straight before the time skip.

Anyway the shintenshin that Ino uses with Kyubbi chakra is faster than KM Naruto so without Kyubbi chakra, it is faster than base Naruto who is faster than Katsuyu.

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Also just because Tsunade knows everything about K11 doesn't mean she can counter everything because their arsenal put together is far more versatile than her's. Also she may not remember each and everyone's various abilities in the heat of battle while against a large number of enemies.

 

[TheEvilOne]

1. Ino will use mind transfer before Katsuyu splits. Mind transfer is faster than a slug splitting.

Ino should be able to control it for a long time since slugs have weaker will power compared to humans and are less intelligent. During the written portion of the exams, Ino controlled Sakura for half a minute and then went on to control Shikamaru and Chouji and wrote the exam for them. IIRC, she can control a human for 5 minutes straight before the time skip.

Anyway the shintenshin that Ino uses with Kyubbi chakra is faster than KM Naruto so without Kyubbi chakra, it is faster than base Naruto who is faster than Katsuyu.

Spoiler

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2. Also just because Tsunade knows everything about K11 doesn't mean she can counter everything because their arsenal put together is far more versatile than her's. Also she may not remember each and everyone's various abilities in the heat of battle while against a large number of enemies.

1. Tsunade knows about Ino's technique. Don't you think she will KO her before she summons Katsuyu? And Ino is a medical ninja, and so is Sakura. Tsunade will deal with them first.
2. But they know almost nothing about her abilities. At first no one knows she has battle 'immortality'. No one knows about her Byakugou or Sozo Saize. Not even Sakura. Furthermore, Tsunade is intelligent. She analyzes her opponents, just like Sakura.

They have no answer against her monstrous strength. She has far more chakra then the combined chakra of the K11. She has far more battle experience then the K11 has. She is faster then most of the members of K11. Only Neji and Lee are faster then her. Furthermore, she can boost her base speed with chakra control. Even in her fallen state, she was able to blitz Kabuto, despite their speed was equal and despite Kabuto used pills.

 

[Tazzilla88]

I think this is a battle that would be largely dependent on Ino.
Unfortunately Tsunade, has shown great knowledge and insight on the ways to construct teams, and even more so knows the duties and responsibilities of medical ninja better than anyone.
Ino's job in this fight would likely be to serve as a secondary medic due to the drawbacks of her jutsu.

Spoiler

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The only time she is supposed to use it in a battle setting is after Shikamaru has stoped them enemy.
And because Tsunade understands the battle strategy, and because she understands the value of medical nin. Her kill list would start with Sakura, at which point there isn't a chance in hell the k11 would allow their second medical nin to try to go on the offense with Katsuyu. Ino would be the second person Tsunade gunned for.
While I agree having Ino take over Katsuyu would be helpful there's a possibility that she can in fact split fast enough based on the slide up there. And the Katsuyu minis seem to have a better reaction time than Ino.

Spoiler

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[genii96]

I think i'll go for tsunade on this one. However,the k11 would push her to her limit or even win,however,she has complete intel on all of them,she slso has some good spread moves like making shockwaves and fissures,that would come in handy. If ino chooses to control katsuya,her body becomes immobile,tsunade can then attack her,while dodginf/tanking/countering the others,however,tsunade,knowing what ino is capable of,will definately target her first.

Lee and neji would give her trouble definately,however,like her,they are taijutsu users,and have to come close,making them bictims of a shockwave attack,with which in part 1,the side effects alone,took out 2 buildings at once.if she is surrounded,she can use that to get somw space and time,also her BPD requires only a touch,which means she can paralayze several k11 with just a touch,and only sakura is good enough to put her body in place,choji's baika no jutsu makes him an easy target for her BPD,also,dont forget she can use the environment as well,by kicking up boulders,trees and sending them with her strength. Her regeneration would no doubt tank any attack they get in with minimal difficulty.

Also if ino controls katsuya,cant tsunade just jump and hit kastuya on the head?,it wont hurt katsuya,but it would hurt ino's body right?,so a hole in ajktsuya,would be a hole in ino,however,katsuya wont die at all,but ino would die. However,tsunade could just dessumon katsuya,breakng the link,then summon her again,this time katsuya,who had been controlled,could just split into thousands of clones,ino can control only 2 at once,the other ones could distract the k11,and some could even attack ino.

Shika's shasow is useless,someone who posseses such strength as tsunade would break free in an instant,his true value is his tactics.

Neji is also a threat,not because of hias ability to hurt internal organs,but bevause of he ability to hit chakra points.

However,tsunade can also use the chakra scalpel tech to inflict swift damage through a simple touch,and since the jutsu engulfs her arms in chakra,she can use it with her strong puches to really cause some damage.

All in all,this is either tsunade or k11 high diff.

I'll favour tsunade though

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Frontliners
Neji: He will engage her in close combat if he lands any hits what so ever it will take away from her chakra based strength(not that its fully based on chakra) and stop chakra flow. This limits her mobility and stops her healing abilities, since all chakra flows on the chakra network stop the flow thus chakra cannot get to her cell's thus she cannot heal. If she gets hit by 8 trigrams 64 palms her chakra network gets shutdown and like I stated earlier she cannot heal.

Rock Lee:With weights removed he can engage her in close quarter combat(cqc), even if he doesn't land a hit it won't matter. his purpose is to keep her busy enough so neji can land hits. Them being on the same team makes it even worse for her cus like i said teamwork is everything. She can't dodge reverse lotus and even if she can tank it chances are at the least she'll be dazed. leaving her open for neji or kiba.

Kiba: Another front liner. his speed and fighting style will be trouble for tsunade due to its animal-like qualities. It was stated that tsunade dodges by looking at the patterns of her opponents attacks but can she do that simultaneously against the very different styles of gentle fist, strong fist, and the four legs technique?
On top of that fang wolf fang is a 1hitko that doesn't miss when urine is used as the tracer. Her body will be left in pieces regardless of her healing abilities.

Chouji: He can take care of her summon is she ever gets the chance to summon the slug. He can pick it up and throw it or just keep it busy(doubt she will be more of a challenge then the gedo mazo). If it doesn't get summoned due to the amount of pressure tsunade is already facing that's just another fighting style she will have to deal with. Butterfly bullet bombing will leave her in the same position as lee's reverse lotus and leave her open for fang wolf fang, or 64 palms.

Midrange

Hinata: She isn't a front liner but through air palm she can attack tsunade's vitals and knock her off her feet forcing her to manually heal herself if strength of 100 isn't active. Doing this continuously is just another problem tsunade has to worry about and if needed she can go to the front lines to fight due to her abilities in the gentle fist.(twin lion fists)

Shino: Shino's bugs will constantly disrupt and suck her chakra and due to part of her strength coming from chakra control anything that disrupts it will weaken it.

Shikamaru: the brains of the operation he knows the abilities of all his peers so formulating a plan shouldn't be hard. And his shadow techniques are hard to dodge considering the fact that it changes depending on time of day. Shadow imitation shuriken technique can bind her in place and leave her open for any of the attacks listed both above and below.

Tenten: her constant barrage of ninja tools and the use of banana fan will keep tsunade busy and on her toes.

Long Range
Sai: His Super Beast Imitating Drawing technique will be a nuisance to tsunade and if she slips up he can seal her in a scroll.On top of that his location will be out of her range of counter attack so he can spam all he wants without repercussion.

Healing

Sakura: Her purpose is solely based on healing.Any injury the team gets will be blunt force trauma or acid both of which are things she can handle, on top of that she will be handing out military rations pills to the team to keep them in there best shape possible.

Ino:She will be healing as well but her mind body switch will be necessary to help land the devastating blows on tsunade. So she will be in between jobs.Furthermore if anybody dies she can take control of their body and keep them fighting via Mind Clone Switch Technique.


Hate repeating myself.