[Theory] Enton: Kagutsuchi

[SkyGodHorus]

C said, Enton is Keitaihenka+ Amaterasu, but the suffix implies also a new combination of at least two Seishitsuhenka. Anyway, Enton is a Kekkai Genkai of the Mangekyō Sharingan.

There is nothing more to say.

Keitaihenka? Seishitsuhenka?

Because it's currently unknown what it entails aside from Fire Release.

Are you saying that it may possess another element after all then?

 

[Naruto.]

Are you saying that it may possess another element after all then?

Not really. Fire Release+ ? = Blaze Release.
Maybe he combines Fire chakra with Amaterasu, or something like that and uses his eyes to control it.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

Not really. Fire Release+ ? = Blaze Release.
Maybe he combines Fire chakra with Amaterasu, or something like that and uses his eyes to control it.

If you think it could be fire chakra, then why is chidori or lightning element out of the question, especially since that's what Sasuke developed the most.

And he can't manipulate the shape of his Koton unlike with Chidori so I don't see how it could change it.

 

[Naruto.]

If you think it could be fire chakra, then why is chidori or lightning element out of the question, especially since that's what Sasuke developed the most.

How could he use lightning to control the black flames?

 

[Behemoth55]

Keitaihenka? Seishitsuhuhenka?

Keitaihenka= the formative "power" which determine the shape of Jutsu.

Seishitsuhenka: Chakra that adopts the properties of the Seishitsu(elements):

Katon
Futon
Suiton
Doton
Raiton

The sixths Seishitsuhenka is the Yin-Yang-Release/Onmyōton/Inton-Yoton

 

[Naruto.]

Keitaihenka= the formative "power" which determine the shape of Jutsu.

Seishitsuhenka: Chakra that adopts the properties of the Seishitsu(elements):

Katon
Futon
Suiton
Doton
Raiton

The sixths Seishitsuhenka is the Yin-Yang-Release/Onmyōton/Inton-Yoton

In simple words, Keitaihenka=Shape manipulation
and Seishitsuhenka=Nature manipulation.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

Keitaihenka= the formative "power" which determine the shape of Jutsu.

Seishitsuhenka: Chakra that adopts the properties of the Seishitsu(elements):

Katon
Futon
Suiton
Doton
Raiton

The sixths Seishitsuhenka is the Yin-Yang-Release/Onmyōton/Inton-Yoton

Yes, I looked your Japanese up lols...

I usually just use element or chakra nature for discussion so I didn't understand what you meant.

So then that means he may have used his lightning nature after all?

 

[Behemoth55]

Not really. Fire Release+ ? = Blaze Release.
Maybe he combines Fire chakra with Amaterasu, or something like that and uses his eyes to control it.

Actually, Amaterasu= Katon.

Katon+Katon= Blaze ??? ;3

But you could be right, if Sasuke uses just Keitaihenka to control Amaterasu.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

How could he use lightning to control the black flames?

Because Chidori is shape manipulation of the lightning element and you and another person now are saying it is made up of two natures as C said. Basic fire element with the same nature and no manipulation on top of the strongest fire technique doesn't make sense to me. Itachi's Amaterasu snuffed Sasuke's Katon out didn't it?

 

[Naruto.]

Lightning doesn't make sense.
Blaze Release=advanced shape manipulation of Amaterasu flames to make arrows, shields, etc.
I don't see how Lightning comes into play here. Only logical element is Fire

 

[Behemoth55]

So then that means he may have used his lightning nature after all?

No one can say that for sure. If Sasuke uses Keitaihenka-as C said it- then no, but maybe Enton is a combination of Katon and Raiton.
But for now I woudn't doubt C's statement regarding Enton.

 

[Behemoth55]

Because Chidori is shape manipulation of the lightning element and you and another person now are saying it is made up of two natures as C said.

C didn't say it. He declared Enton only as Amaterasu with a new form. Keitaihenka alone doesn't have to do with any element.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

Lightning doesn't make sense.
Blaze Release=advanced shape manipulation of Amaterasu flames to make arrows, shields, etc.
I don't see how Lightning comes into play here. Only logical element is Fire

It makes hella more sense than putting weak fire on strong fire...

Did you not even read my post or pay attention to sasuke's immense chidori arsenal?

He could make it into a sword and long spear as well as needles and stream it through his sword.

His Koton is just a blast of fire. There is no shape manipulation about it.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

C didn't say it. He declared Enton only as Amaterasu with a new form.

You're contradicting yourself. Both he and you stated it was made up of at least two different chakra natures. Since it is elemental manipulation and Katon cannot be manipulated, chidori, which sasuke developed a lot seems the logical choice.

Keitaihenka alone doesn't have to do with any element.

Wrong. It is how chidori was created and how Naruto makes his new rasengan techniques because rasengan is the ultimate shape manipulation he combines with his wind element.

 

[Naruto.]

You're contradicting yourself. Both he and you stated it was made up of at least two different chakra natures. Since it is elemental manipulation and Katon cannot be manipulated, chidori, which sasuke developed a lot seems the logical choice.

lol who said Fire Release can't be manipulated? Of course it can be manipulated to form fire streams, fire dragons, fire walls, etc..etc..

and

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[SkyGodHorus]

lol who said Fire Release can't be manipulated? Of course it can be manipulated to form fire streams, fire dragons, fire walls, etc..etc..

Sasuke has never used it in that manner. All he has ever done with it is blast it. And I don't see you debunking the chidori or lightning element theory. You seem to be going in circles either to get the last word or because you are contrarian. I've made three very valid points about it. You've made no points about Katon or whatever the hell you are attempting to argue.

 

[Naruto.]

Sasuke has never used it in that manner. All he has ever done with it is blast it. And I don't see you debunking the chidori or lightning element theory. You seem to be going in circles either to get the last word or because you are contrarian. I've made three very valid points about it. You've made no points about Katon or whatever the hell you are attempting to argue.

No, you said Fire can't be manipulated and I just disproved that. z.z
And I was saying such because I was thinking of how Amaterasu was formed.
It's like this:

It's Itachi's special ability, i.e. Itachi uses his Mangekyou Sharingan to manipulate fire and possibly forms Amaterasu. Now, Itachi implanted his Amaterasu onto Sasuke as a fail-safe, because of which Sasuke can use Amaterasu with his left eye and manipulate the Amaterasu with his right eye, simple as that. Sasuke might have perfected Chidori and has several lightning jutsus in his arsenal, but I personally don't think lightning doesn't come into play here, as Amaterasu=black flames.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

No, you said Fire can't be manipulated and I just disproved that. z.z

You haven't disproved anything yet and I was referring to Sasuke's Katon not any Katon.

His Koton is just a blast of fire. There is no shape manipulation about it.

And I was saying such because I was thinking of how Amaterasu was formed.
It's like this:

It's Itachi's special ability, i.e. Itachi uses his Mangekyou Sharingan to manipulate fire and possibly forms Amaterasu. Now, Itachi implanted his Amaterasu onto Sasuke as a fail-safe, because of which Sasuke can use Amaterasu with his left eye and manipulate the Amaterasu with his right eye, simple as that. Sasuke might have perfected Chidori and has several lightning jutsus in his arsenal, but I personally don't think lightning doesn't come into play here, as Amaterasu=black flames.

Yet he can actually handle it like his chidori unlike regular Amaterasu or his katon. There's a fourth point.

Anyway, we need to agree to disagree here. We're going in circles around Morder and I'm tired.

 

[Behemoth55]

You're contradicting yourself. Both he and you stated it was made up of at least two different chakra natures.

That was only a speculation, because of the suffix.

Since it is elemental manipulation and Katon cannot be manipulated, chidori, which sasuke developed a lot seems the logical choice.

Nope, that doesn't make any sense. Sasukes Katon: Gouryūka no Jutsu is also Keitaihenka and Seishitsuhenka. Sasuke gave the Katon-Chakra a new form with Keitaihenka. And you can't manipulate a Seishitsuhenka with a different one.

Wrong. It is how chidori was created and how Naruto makes his new rasengan techniques because it is shape manipulation he combines with his wind element.

That's why I said Keitaihenka alone. You should regard the whole context. The basic Rasengan and Odama Rasengan are just Keitaihenka-according to the Databook.

Again: C said, Enton= Keitaihenka.....

[ Keitaihenka /shaping variation
If someone radiates his Chakra in such a way that it accepts a certain form and even maintains it, then, one calls this process "Keitaihenka".]

....and Amaterasu. Means: Sasuke gives Amaterasu(Katon) just a new shape. Enton is like the FRS a combination of Keitaihenka and Seishitsuhenka.

Your example with Chidori isn't legitimate in this case anyway, because its Raiton. You can't manipulate a Ninjutsu-like I have said it before- with Seishitsuhenka. With Seishitsuhenka the basic characteristics of chakra change, but not its form.

Chidori: simple Seishitsuhenka of Raiton/Raiton-Chakra

Chidori Eisō: Raiton-Chakra=>characteristics of the Seishitsu Raiton+ Keitaihenka=> form of a spear.

Only Keitaihenka can change the form of Ninjutsu.

 

[Naruto.]

You haven't disproved a single thing and you pretty much just lied. Yet he can actually handle it like his chidori unlike regular Amaterasu or his katon. There's a fourth point.

Lied? seriously? -_-
Didn't you see Sasuke use Katon: Gōryūka no Jutsu, which is shape manipulation of fire to form a dragon made up of fire as a pre-requisite for using Kirin? You're talking as if Kishi himself stated that lightning is a part of Enton. -_-

It's because Amaterasu puts massive stress on his eyes(disregard EMS).
I will still stick with my point. Amaterasu=black flames and I don't see how lightning can enhance black flames or help in shape manipulating them.