[Discussion] enel and kizaru vs ?

ToshiZO

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Are you kidding me?

You say they're equals and then you rank them? Okay. That makes perfect sense.

You're underestimating Mihawk, Sengoku and Isshou, but then again "That is merely your opinion".

Isshou's got the power of Gravity. Gravity controls light and restricts light. Therefore when Isshou and Kizaru fight, no matter the difference in strength Isshou is going to win. Think of Luffy's rubber to Enels lightning as the equivalent to Isshou's gravity to Borsalino's light
Real world logic does not work in the One Piece verse. Kizaru's light doesn't even work the same way as in rl. And yes portrayal wise he is 2nd yet still portrayed to be on the same level as Sakazuki and Kuzan. The logia trio have clearly been portrayed this way, all 3 would need extreme difficulty to put the other down, and not after a long never ending battle. Could Kizaru lose to Kuzan?...Sure he can, but he can also beat him.

Also Mihawk so far has not shown he can tango with Kizaru past a high difficulty loss, maybe in the future he will show his worth but as of MF war he is not beating any Admiral. Fujitora just from his title alone has a chance, but I always favour the original trio over the new admirals since they have been shown to be so close in power rankings (via portrayal and Kuzan vs Sakuzuki battle). As for Sengoku he is well past his prime, and aside from the title of Admiral which is = to that of Kizaru's nothing suggests he is guaranteed victory against Kizaru. You're speaking as if all the people you mentioned are for sure beating Kizaru when that's clearly not the case.
 

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Real world logic does not work in the One Piece verse. Kizaru's light doesn't even work the same way as in rl. And yes portrayal wise he is 2nd yet still portrayed to be on the same level as Sakazuki and Kuzan. The logia trio have clearly been portrayed this way, all 3 would need extreme difficulty to put the other down, and not after a long never ending battle. Could Kizaru lose to Kuzan?...Sure he can, but he can also beat him.
I simply pointed out that what you said was a hypocrisy of your own statement. You said they were all equals and then proceeded to rank the Admirals in strength (in turn showing they're not equals).

Soreal world logic does not apply in OP: So the whole thing about Rubber being an insulator of Lightning had nothing to do with why Enel couldn't defeat Luffy. Luffy using water to harden Crocodile's element form (in turn restricting his powers) had nothing to do with Luffy's victory. Real world logic does apply. Just because the series is surreal doesn't mean everything within the Manga is.

Also Mihawk so far has not shown he can tango with Kizaru past a high difficulty loss, maybe in the future he will show his worth but as of MF war he is not beating any Admiral. Fujitora just from his title alone has a chance, but I always favour the original trio over the new admirals since they have been shown to be so close in power rankings (via portrayal and Kuzan vs Sakuzuki battle). As for Sengoku he is well past his prime, and aside from the title of Admiral which is = to that of Kizaru's nothing suggests he is guaranteed victory against Kizaru. You're speaking as if all the people you mentioned are for sure beating Kizaru when that's clearly not the case.
As of MF war all he did was dominate Luffy and slash at Whitebeard once. He showed nothing. You cannot base his strengths and weaknesses on the war. As he is hyped as the current worlds strongest swordsman then surely he is stronger than Rayleigh in his current state (whom was fighting on EQUAL TERMS with Borsalino, minus his stamina).

Going by the real world logic that I have proved to still apply in the series no matter how strong Borsalino is, his Devil Fruit is useless against Fujitora. And since the Logia Admirals pretty much relied on their Devil Fruits entirely, Borsalino will be cut down several rungs on the ladder without his Pica Pica no Mi being usable at all. Isshou can just shut off light, bend it away from him etc. So Kizaru cannot attack Isshou. He cannot assume Logia form either as Isshou can just contort Borsalino to hell.

Sengoku and Garp in my opinion were equals. They still are. This is why I think Sengoku can still defeat the weakest of the Admirals (the one with the most inferior feats aka Borsalino).

You're never guarenteed victory against anybody. So going by your logic nobody is stronger than anyone else and the power scale in One Piece is totally Monotonous. Which is clearly not the case.
 

ToshiZO

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I simply pointed out that what you said was a hypocrisy of your own statement. You said they were all equals and then proceeded to rank the Admirals in strength (in turn showing they're not equals).
Smh dude you can have people as equals and still somewhat have a hierarchy within them. Look at the Roger/WB/Garp parallel.

Soreal world logic does not apply in OP: So the whole thing about Rubber being an insulator of Lightning had nothing to do with why Enel couldn't defeat Luffy. Luffy using water to harden Crocodile's element form (in turn restricting his powers) had nothing to do with Luffy's victory. Real world logic does apply. Just because the series is surreal doesn't mean everything within the Manga is.
Dude those things were confirmed, before it is confirmed you can't sit here and act like its so clear cut. Not when we have Magma and Ice going at it with no clear sign of one DF having the advantage over the other, or Magma burning Fire which hardly even makes sense. And this case is different from those cases as they were atleast some sort of physical element which interacted with the flesh. Kizaru is a light man only by name like I said in the real world you can't send someone flying back with a light kick, it would just phase through. Kizaru is more of a laser man, that gravity and light parallel even logically doesn't apply let alone with One Piece verses own "cause I said so" logic.


As of MF war all he did was dominate Luffy and slash at Whitebeard once. He showed nothing. You cannot base his strengths and weaknesses on the war. As he is hyped as the current worlds strongest swordsman then surely he is stronger than Rayleigh in his current state (whom was fighting on EQUAL TERMS with Borsalino, minus his stamina).
-Slashed at WB got stopped by Jozu
-had a stalemate with Vista who Akainu brushed off like a fodder
-stopped by Croc
-Daz Bones blocked his initial attack

now I'm still not gonna fully judge Mihawk so I will wait for new feats because those are pretty pathetic for someone who is supposed to be on the Admirals level, regardless of being casual. A casual Admirals feats are still not so berating (see Fujitora).

Also LOL so you're one of those who line up every one who holds a sword and say Mihawk is stronger? Terrible logic. I see you used Rayleigh as an example if that's the case why don't you go ahead and use Shanks. What is Shanks? He doesn't seem too different than Rayleigh to me. So Mihawk > Shanks guaranteed for you as well. I'll take your word for it.

Going by the real world logic that I have proved to still apply in the series no matter how strong Borsalino is, his Devil Fruit is useless against Fujitora. And since the Logia Admirals pretty much relied on their Devil Fruits entirely, Borsalino will be cut down several rungs on the ladder without his Pica Pica no Mi being usable at all. Isshou can just shut off light, bend it away from him etc. So Kizaru cannot attack Isshou. He cannot assume Logia form either as Isshou can just contort Borsalino to hell.
Refer to Akainu vs Aokiji where both fought evenly despite (real world logic implying Magma >> Ice). Like I said not until things are confirmed (rubber > Lightning) can you sit here and act like its guaranteed. Besides I already explained how Kizaru's light is not even close to the same as how it works in real life.

Sengoku and Garp in my opinion were equals. They still are. This is why I think Sengoku can still defeat the weakest of the Admirals (the one with the most inferior feats aka Borsalino).
Your opinion doesn't matter dude. The manga clearly laid out a hierarchy and Garp is above Sengoku on the food chain. He is mentioned in the same breath as the Pirate King, and then you come here and tell me Sengoku is as well? Smh.

You're never guarenteed victory against anybody. So going by your logic nobody is stronger than anyone else and the power scale in One Piece is totally Monotonous. Which is clearly not the case.
Oh but that is the case. Such are the top tiers of One Piece verse. They are so closely knit that you cant sit here and act like one loses to another so clearly, sure if the portrayal heavily implies this...... then and only then can some guys be given an exception, but most of those on your list didn't fall under that category, all I saw was bias. This is not Naruto where the difference between top tiers is so evident. Top tier arguments in One Piece are fanfics, besides some exceptions the majority of the characters can't be guaranteed a victory against another top tier especially since we haven't even seen the majority on your list fight even seriously or fight at all.
 
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