EMS Sasuke VS KCM Naruto

Who wins


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Bogard

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Amaterasu and Enton > FRS. Shots Amaterasu or an Enton arrow or Magatama in the Rasenshurikens way, turns it into Amaterasu and controls it with Enton. Sasuke's legless Susanoo used an arrow which had the same size as Naruto's Chou Oodama Rasenshuriken. That Sasuke falls for a FRS is unexpected. It's bs when Sasuke can easily counter it.
The Amaterasu and enton > FRS would back fire at him if he were to use it as a defense since the FRS will only increase the power of his own defensive fire and thus burning him. It would neutralise FRS only if he were to counter it mid way with his enton arrows. And Naruto could use clones who can use all his techniques. So it won't be difficult for him to surround him with clones spamming COFRS at the same time

Also, the Rasenshuriken works on a cellular level. What Sandaime Raikage's body tanked comfortably, won't destroy Susanoo, which ribcage got merely cracks from Tsunade's full powered punch.
1- Sandaime didn't tank it comfortably since he got ripped off a little bit by the attack. If he wasn't edo, he couldn't have recovered

2- We don't know how much Sandaime Raikage's durability compares to that of Susanoo, but it certainly is much more durable than a mere ribcage A or Obito destroyed with bare hands. Sandaime Raikage's durability was even compared to Gaara's ultimate defense by Naruto who is the greatest defense in the manga, still according to him, despite knowing Susanoo already

And according to the databook, Yata would render all attacks useless, no matter of their properties.
Just like Raikiri could cut anything. One of kirigakure's sword could cut through anything or Odama Rasengan could swallow everything
 

KidGamer65

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Kirin is natural lightning. Yata only repels elemental attacks according to hype, so even by hype, it shouldn't be able to repel natural lightning coming from outside environment(not made of elemental chakra). And even if it could, it is highly likely it's only an hyperbole. To which extent this actual hyperbole is valid is unknown by us, so there is actually no proof it could have repel it like you claim
Yata has been shown repelling explosive tags, Sasuke's sword, and Orochimaru's Hydra, so going by feats it repels more than just elemental chakra attacks, so if it was enough to protect Itachi from the blast then it should have repelled it, but it didn't.

Furthermore, don't forget Kirin only protects the front of Susanoo. It's even possible that yata didn't manage to protect against kirin, for the simple reason that the attack was coming from above
Yata has also been shown to itself to block the attack, so there is no way Yata wouldn't have protected from Kirin if it were used.

His final Susanoo was destroyed by Kirin given the fact that even despite it, he got greatly injured. After he got up, he was simply reforming the Susanoo from the skeletal one to his final one
There is nothing to support the assertion that he was reforming it back to the final one. He called out his Final Susanoo in the first place to seal away Orochimaru after dragging him out of Sasuke.
 

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Sasuke already showed how he can set on fire the ribcage of his Susanoo without burning it down, thanks to shape manipulation. Enton allows him to manipulate the flame automatically. The firepower of Susanoo's arrow would cancel the firepower of the FRS as well, as shown when Sasuke and Naruto combines these two forces.

Sasuke can even hold an Enton blade in his hand, which entirely consists of black flames [ ]. Accept the fact, that a FRS won't harm Sasuke since he ca easily counter it.

And check out the scan where the Raikage was hit by the Rasenshuriken. He didn't even receive damage.




There wasn't even made a visible cut to him. Susanoo is way more durable. The ribcage alone tanks Ay's liger bomb and Tsunade's full powered punch.
 

NarutoIndra

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His Final Susanoo wields Yata Mirror, if he really called it out to tank Kirin then Kirin would have been repelled given the fact that it was indeed blocked by Susanoo.

Not to mention the Skeletal Susanoo is the Susanoo that reappeared when he got up.
Skeletal Susano rearing doesn't signify anything. His Susano was possibly molten after Kirin hit the Susano. The lightning that hit the Susano was shown to be natural, meaning it's temperature is anywhere between 50,000 degrees and 55,000 degrees Fahrenheit. It's power was immense as well, destroying the entire Uchiha hideout. Skeletal Susano wouldn't have even reduced the force/stopped it, let alone completely tank it. Kirin's power is considered low city level on OBD, whereas no Susano other than PS has durability feats strong enough to tank this. However, with the Yata Mirror, he should've been capable of accomplishing this feat. OBD even states that Yata was used to block Kirin, since their is no way in hell a Susano that isn't a PS or Yata Susano can tank it.
 

KidGamer65

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Skeletal Susano rearing doesn't signify anything. His Susano was possibly molten after Kirin hit the Susano. The lightning that hit the Susano was shown to be natural, meaning it's temperature is anywhere between 50,000 degrees and 55,000 degrees Fahrenheit. It's power was immense as well, destroying the entire Uchiha hideout. Skeletal Susano wouldn't have even reduced the force/stopped it, let alone completely tank it. Kirin's power is considered low city level on OBD, whereas no Susano other than PS has durability feats strong enough to tank this. However, with the Yata Mirror, he should've been capable of accomplishing this feat. OBD even states that Yata was used to block Kirin, since their is no way in hell a Susano that isn't a PS or Yata Susano can tank it.
His Susanoo supposedly being molten doesn't have anything to do with nor does it explain why Skeletal is the one that reappeared. I hope you aren't saying the blast caused it to be broken down to a Skeletal cause that doesn't make sense.

Again with the OBD calcs? Lol The same calcs that say Madara and Hashirama are a tier above Ay in speed? The same calcs that rely on Kishi's inconsistent scaling? I don't care what OBD says about Yata blocking Kirin. If Yata had been used to block Kirin, it would have been repelled just like every other attack that came in contact with it since it was enough to be blocked. Where is the evidence that Yata Mirror was even used to tank it? OBD said so isn't evidence as OBD calcs (For Naruto characters at least) are made by people at Narutoforums and some other places. Its the same as using someone else's opinion as evidence.

Skeletal Susano didn't even completely tank it, it was obliterated and Itachi was knocked to the ground by the force. Even if it wasn't skeletal, at most its the level 3 Complete Susanoo that let him survive Kirin, Yata was not used. So even if V3 blocked Kirin, it still lets Sasuke's Final Susanoo, 2 levels above V3 to easily tank FRS as Kirin is much much stronger than FRS is.
 
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Strict

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Hard to believe that the skeleton alone tanked Kirin, but it could be possible from the angle Kirin hit Susanoo. If you hit Susanoo from above, you logically have to penetrate a larger layer of Chakra than if you hit it from the front.

Yata would have protected Itachi completely however. If we stay really realistic, KCM has almost no real chance against Sasuke. The only hope of Naruto to deal damage to Susanoo in form of a FRS is negated by Amaterasu and Enton. And a Rasengan, no matter of what size and quantity, won't put a scratch on Susanoo.


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This Susanoo tnks anything Naruto throws at him effortlessly and fodderizes the clones easily.

I really wonder how people consider Naruto to win.
 

Bogard

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Yata has been shown repelling explosive tags, Sasuke's sword, and Orochimaru's Hydra, so going by feats it repels more than just elemental chakra attacks, so if it was enough to protect Itachi from the blast then it should have repelled it, but it didn't.
Did it repel or blocked it? Cuz repelling and blocking is 2 things different. From the way i read it, all i saw is a defense blocking explosive tags or a sword that like almost any type of defense in this manga can(Neji's kaiten defensive feats in part1 for example were already greater than this)?

Yata has also been shown to itself to block the attack, so there is no way Yata wouldn't have protected from Kirin if it were used.
Hmm never noticed this, but like i've said, we still don't know to which extent yata can protect

For example if it covers the entire area as efficiently when it expands as when it doesn't, Itachi wouldn't have needed to move his shield to counter Orochimaru's hydra technique [ ] [ ]

I personally believe he used the final one since i don't think Itachi would use lesser stages against an attack he wasn't even sure to survive against

Now we should address the actual damage that Itachi's Susanoo withstood. Let us keep in mind that Kirin possesses a town level wide AoE (Area of Effect).

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While there are many attacks that do large amounts of damage to a specific amount of terrain, we must remember that alot of these "building buster, or town-buster" ranked attacks are more-so based on the area of effect in some cases. What i mean is that 2 techniques can be "mountain busters" in terms of AOE without being as strong as the other

It can simply mean that the attack is just strong enough to destroy the weaker materials that consist of that area, but due to it's wide AoE, it can destroy an entire town. Hell, in this case(Sasuke vs Itachi), the Katon Gouryuka no Jutsu that Sasuke used to set up Kirin were powerful enough to obliterate the stone that it came into contact with. However, it had very low AoE. Now if that same fire jutsu had the range to cover the same area as Kirin it would be called a "Town Buster". This is because the jutsu has enough power to destroy the weaker materials within the AoE.

Considering the fact that the hill on where the Uchiha Hideout was located, the majority of the Hideout's interior was hollow, filled with walls, rooms and halls. Meaning the entire structure was not filled with solid minerals like an actual hill or small mountain. As we also see, the entire area was not obliterated by Kirin. As you see in the aftermath, there is a copious amount of rubble and debris. This likely indicates that Kirin immediately made the structure of the hideout unstable. It's structural integrity was compromised by the attack, not completely obliterated. Same thing can happen with any building. Hell a well placed Katon ninjutsu could bring down an entire building, if the foundation of the building is destroyed. That being said, I believe the raw power of Kirin (at least what is dealt on the target) has been greatly exaggerated.

Besides this, there is still the issue of the power's focus. In Kirin's case, it's energy is spread over quite a substantial diameter. Because of this, the absolute totality of Kirin's power is not completely focused on the individual target. All the target needs to do is survive the energy that comes in direct contact with their body. If Itachi had Susanoo up, that would have soaked up the minimal (minimal compared to the entirety of the jutsu) amount of energy that hit Susanoo directly.

If we follow the idea that Itachi was only able to summon the Incomplete Susanoo, we have to remember that what it withstood was only a portion of the jutsu's full power. Keep in mind that the amount of time that elapsed once Kirin's lightning struck was 1/1000th of a second. This means that regardless of what defensive measures Itachi used, he only needed to defend himself for 1/1000th of a second. Also, the defense itself did not even need to last. Even if the Susanoo shattered instantaneously (which it likely did), it did the job of soaking up the brunt of the minimal energy that hit it directly.

As we plainly saw, Itachi was not unscathed by any means. While it is true that he had no limbs blown off of him, we clearly see that it still knocked him out for a few moments and damaged him considerably to the point that he could barely stand back up. This means Susanoo didn't "tank" anything. At most, it probably just shattered the moment Kirin made contact with it, and the residual force of the attack damaged him. Remember, Susanoo only needed to guard him for less than a split-second. Not exactly a long lasting defense. This is very different than constantly withstanding barrages of attacks from the Kage.

Ultimately, surviving Kirin does not mean Itachi can by default survive attacks that are comparatively lesser than this jutsu. Itachi cannot react to actual lightning, and his Susanoo cannot "tank" a Town Buster. And if it can, the defense can apparently only last for 1/1000th of a second before it shatters lol.

All this to say that a Susanoo(complete or incomplete one) "tanking" Kirin doesn't mean it could tank FRS which power is more focused and even if it could the entire thing would be obbliterated. Complete Susanoo is rated to be 7meters at most by calculations. FRS explosion has a much greater AOE
 

DemonicAvenger

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His Final Susanoo wields Yata Mirror, if he really called it out to tank Kirin then Kirin would have been repelled given the fact that it was indeed blocked by Susanoo.

Not to mention the Skeletal Susanoo is the Susanoo that reappeared when he got up.
His armored Susano'O can use Yata no Kagami as well, not just complete.

Just my two cents as well; I believe Itachi survived Kirin with Yata no Kagami (I believe people interpreted the DB page incorrectly)
 

Strict

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Yata mirror is a supernatural item, which is equal to the Totsuka blade. That already shows the might of these weapons. The databook clearly explains, how this shield reacts to attacks - by changing every of its properties in order to alter its attributes in accordance with the attributes of the attack, rendering the attack useless. That's Yata's ability. Not the hype to block any attack. Yata would have repelled Kirin. Unlike usual defenses, who merely block attacks, this shield, as its name already displays, mirrors it back.


Look how the heads of the snakes are spreading in all direction when hitting the shield.


Sasuke and his sword are flying debris when hitting the shield.

When Danzo's Kunai hit Sasuke's Susanoo however, it broke. Here you see the difference.
 

NarutoIndra

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His Susanoo supposedly being molten doesn't have anything to do with nor does it explain why Skeletal is the one that reappeared. I hope you aren't saying the blast caused it to be broken down to a Skeletal cause that doesn't make sense.
Skeletal being the Susano having reappeared doesn't have anything to do with what happened. We have already seen how much strain Susano puts on the body when you don't have EMS. Itachi pulling up his Skeletal Susano first may have signified that the strain was too great for him at the given moment, and took it a step at a time instead of putting a mass of strain all at once without allowing his body to get accustomed to the strain. There is nothing implying a user cannot quickly put up a Final Susano. Even Sasuke didn't believe how Itachi was capable of coping with all the strain the Susano must have put on his body [ ]. And no, I am not.

Again with the OBD calcs? Lol The same calcs that say Madara and Hashirama are a tier above Ay in speed? The same calcs that rely on Kishi's inconsistent scaling? I don't care what OBD says about Yata blocking Kirin. If Yata had been used to block Kirin, it would have been repelled just like every other attack that came in contact with it since it was enough to be blocked. Where is the evidence that Yata Mirror was even used to tank it? OBD said so isn't evidence as OBD calcs (For Naruto characters at least) are made by people at Narutoforums and some other places. Its the same as using someone else's opinion as evidence.
lol Fine I won't use OBD calks at this given moment if you don't agree with them, although they are more accurate than two people baselessly assuming. Yata isn't required to repel, everything in that page seemed to be a hyperbole, so what makes you think this wasn't? Although it is usually used by notable people on the site, who show their calculations quite often, so it isn't necessarily an opinion since it consists of some accuracy behind it.

Skeletal Susano didn't even completely tank it, it was obliterated and Itachi was knocked to the ground by the force. Even if it wasn't skeletal, at most its the level 3 Complete Susanoo that let him survive Kirin, Yata was not used. So even if V3 blocked Kirin, it still lets Sasuke's Final Susanoo, 2 levels above V3 to easily tank FRS as Kirin is much much stronger than FRS is.
Yata not being used is an assumption once again. This is all speculation. Nothing infers that he couldn't have reached beyond a v3 Susano. Nothing infers he can't use Yata without final susano. One can see his complete Susano used it here [ ] and in the scan you yourself posted [ ]. So with the use of Yata, it should have made the job much easier to tank, yet it still wasn't capable of tanking it (presuming it was used) since Kirin is a one shot jutsu after all. There's no v5 Susano 0.o... Sasuke has a v4 which is 1 version above the complete Susano, meaning the difference isn't big enough to possibly make up for a missing Yata Mirror.

I still don't see how he tanks a odama FRS.
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Roughly 15 times the size of when it is compressed.
This would mean this, being 3 times the width of Gamakichi, with the approximate explosion radius concluding as about 45 times the width of Gamabunta, which may I note is immense. Credit to this find goes to Midday, say his thread some time back, and couldn't help but use it here just to give a rough, somewhat accurate estimate of how powerful the Chou Odama FRS is. I don't see Final Susano tanking this, but that's simply my opinion.
 

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Either the FRS and Chou FRS turn into countless, microscopic small wind blades which deal damage on a cellular level. So there is the question what the difference between the different sizes of the FRS is from begin with. Both the normal and large FRS have the same properties. If the FRS can't damage the Sandaime Raikage on cellular level, why would the larger one do?

Are you forgetting that Sasuke could just shot an Amaterasu arrow in the Chou FRS path, in order to turn it into a flame [ ][ ] he can control? Once the FRS became a flame, it can't harm Sauke, seeing how he hold a blade entirely made of Amaterasu in his hand.

There is no need to debate whether the Rasenshuriken could break certain stages of Susanoo, when Sasuke can negate it easily in canon.

When it comes to certain characters, people simply fail to acknowledge their powers.
 
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KidGamer65

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Skeletal being the Susano having reappeared doesn't have anything to do with what happened. We have already seen how much strain Susano puts on the body when you don't have EMS. Itachi pulling up his Skeletal Susano first may have signified that the strain was too great for him at the given moment, and took it a step at a time instead of putting a mass of strain all at once without allowing his body to get accustomed to the strain. There is nothing implying a user cannot quickly put up a Final Susano. Even Sasuke didn't believe how Itachi was capable of coping with all the strain the Susano must have put on his body [ ]. And no, I am not.
The strain won't differ if he uses Skeletal Susanoo and then climbs up to Final from when he goes Final right away.



lol Fine I won't use OBD calks at this given moment if you don't agree with them, although they are more accurate than two people baselessly assuming. Yata isn't required to repel, everything in that page seemed to be a hyperbole, so what makes you think this wasn't? Although it is usually used by notable people on the site, who show their calculations quite often, so it isn't necessarily an opinion since it consists of some accuracy behind it.
Um. It has been shown to repel what comes into contact with it, multiple times.

-Hydra's heads bounced back, this doesn't happen when coming in contact with a regular shield. [ ]

-Repelled explosive tags. [ ]

-Sasuke and his sword were replied. [ ] [ ]

Yata repels attacks that come in contact with it, it doesn't block them, and the calcs for Susanoo rely on the assumption that Yata was used to block it, but ended up getting ripped through. Though there is no evidence for this conclusion. I also find it extremely unlikely that Kishimoto is going to have Itachi use Yata, get it broken, and then have Zetsu hype it up as invincible one chapter later.

Yata not being used is an assumption once again. This is all speculation. Nothing infers that he couldn't have reached beyond a v3 Susano. Nothing infers he can't use Yata without final susano. One can see his complete Susano used it here [ ] and in the scan you yourself posted [ ]. So with the use of Yata, it should have made the job much easier to tank, yet it still wasn't capable of tanking it (presuming it was used) since Kirin is a one shot jutsu after all. There's no v5 Susano 0.o... Sasuke has a v4 which is 1 version above the complete Susano, meaning the difference isn't big enough to possibly make up for a missing Yata Mirror.
If Yata was used, it would have repelled the attack instead of simply blocking it and saving Itachi's life, as Yata repels attacks it doesn't just block them.

Sasuke's has different layer of armor than his , so it does count as a kind of V5 Susanoo.

I still don't see how he tanks a odama FRS.
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Roughly 15 times the size of when it is compressed.
This would mean this, being 3 times the width of Gamakichi, with the approximate explosion radius concluding as about 45 times the width of Gamabunta, which may I note is immense. Credit to this find goes to Midday, say his thread some time back, and couldn't help but use it here just to give a rough, somewhat accurate estimate of how powerful the Chou Odama FRS is. I don't see Final Susano tanking this, but that's simply my opinion.
It doesn't need to. Enton has already been shown to consume FRS when used in a great enough quantity.
 

KidGamer65

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Did it repel or blocked it? Cuz repelling and blocking is 2 things different. From the way i read it, all i saw is a defense blocking explosive tags or a sword that like almost any type of defense in this manga can(Neji's kaiten defensive feats in part1 for example were already greater than this)
It repelled them as shown in the links in my above post.

Hmm never noticed this, but like i've said, we still don't know to which extent yata can protect

For example if it covers the entire area as efficiently when it expands as when it doesn't, Itachi wouldn't have needed to move his shield to counter Orochimaru's hydra technique [ ] [ ]
Explosive Tags that would only damage the front slammed into Susanoo and Yata Mirror extended backwards above Susanoo's head and it covered the sides as well. Moving the shield allowed Itachi to counter attack with Totsuka cause if it had stretched to protect him from that, it would have gotten in his way, and we've already seen it stretch for a similar kind of attack so there is most likely a reason why it didn't do so here.

I personally believe he used the final one since i don't think Itachi would use lesser stages against an attack he wasn't even sure to survive against
You have a point here. What's possible is that he used his . I highly highly doubt that Yata Mirror was used.

Now we should address the actual damage that Itachi's Susanoo withstood. Let us keep in mind that Kirin possesses a town level wide AoE (Area of Effect).

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While there are many attacks that do large amounts of damage to a specific amount of terrain, we must remember that alot of these "building buster, or town-buster" ranked attacks are more-so based on the area of effect in some cases. What i mean is that 2 techniques can be "mountain busters" in terms of AOE without being as strong as the other

It can simply mean that the attack is just strong enough to destroy the weaker materials that consist of that area, but due to it's wide AoE, it can destroy an entire town. Hell, in this case(Sasuke vs Itachi), the Katon Gouryuka no Jutsu that Sasuke used to set up Kirin were powerful enough to obliterate the stone that it came into contact with. However, it had very low AoE. Now if that same fire jutsu had the range to cover the same area as Kirin it would be called a "Town Buster". This is because the jutsu has enough power to destroy the weaker materials within the AoE.
Ok, I understand what you're saying here, but Kirin is town level (I guess) because of more than just its AoE, as it obliterated the large hill the Uchiha Hideout was located on top of. Which was, solid rock.

Considering the fact that the hill on where the Uchiha Hideout was located, the majority of the Hideout's interior was hollow, filled with walls, rooms and halls. Meaning the entire structure was not filled with solid minerals like an actual hill or small mountain. As we also see, the entire area was not obliterated by Kirin. As you see in the aftermath, there is a copious amount of rubble and debris. This likely indicates that Kirin immediately made the structure of the hideout unstable. It's structural integrity was compromised by the attack, not completely obliterated. Same thing can happen with any building. Hell a well placed Katon ninjutsu could bring down an entire building, if the foundation of the building is destroyed. That being said, I believe the raw power of Kirin (at least what is dealt on the target) has been greatly exaggerated.
Kirin didn't only destroy the Hideout Building. It completely obliterated the large hill that the building was located on as shown in the scan you posted. It didn't vaporize the hill but it did reduce it to nothing but rubble.

Besides this, there is still the issue of the power's focus. In Kirin's case, it's energy is spread over quite a substantial diameter. Because of this, the absolute totality of Kirin's power is not completely focused on the individual target. All the target needs to do is survive the energy that comes in direct contact with their body. If Itachi had Susanoo up, that would have soaked up the minimal (minimal compared to the entirety of the jutsu) amount of energy that hit Susanoo directly.
Pretty sure he took the brunt of that attack considering the lighting bolt itself was aimed directly at him and the rest of it spread out and destroyed the entire hill, though I agree not all the energy is focused on the target.


If we follow the idea that Itachi was only able to summon the Incomplete Susanoo, we have to remember that what it withstood was only a portion of the jutsu's full power. Keep in mind that the amount of time that elapsed once Kirin's lightning struck was 1/1000th of a second. This means that regardless of what defensive measures Itachi used, he only needed to defend himself for 1/1000th of a second. Also, the defense itself did not even need to last. Even if the Susanoo shattered instantaneously (which it likely did), it did the job of soaking up the brunt of the minimal energy that hit it directly.
Lightning reaches the ground in 1/1000th of a second, I'm not seeing where "he only needs to defend himself for 1/1000th of a second from, cause the blast itself lasts longer than that.

As we plainly saw, Itachi was not unscathed by any means. While it is true that he had no limbs blown off of him, we clearly see that it still knocked him out for a few moments and damaged him considerably to the point that he could barely stand back up. This means Susanoo didn't "tank" anything. At most, it probably just shattered the moment Kirin made contact with it, and the residual force of the attack damaged him. Remember, Susanoo only needed to guard him for less than a split-second. Not exactly a long lasting defense. This is very different than constantly withstanding barrages of attacks from the Kage.
Agreed. Susanoo didn't tank Kirin, it simply absorbed the impact and allowed Itachi to survive. Though he wasn't even knocked out, seconds after the blast he got back up, the force probably just knocked him down but the attack was blocked by Susanoo successfully.

Ultimately, surviving Kirin does not mean Itachi can by default survive attacks that are comparatively lesser than this jutsu. Itachi cannot react to actual lightning, and his Susanoo cannot "tank" a Town Buster. And if it can, the defense can apparently only last for 1/1000th of a second before it shatters lol.

All this to say that a Susanoo(complete or incomplete one) "tanking" Kirin doesn't mean it could tank FRS which power is more focused and even if it could the entire thing would be obbliterated. Complete Susanoo is rated to be 7meters at most by calculations. FRS explosion has a much greater AOE
-FRS's AoE being much larger than Susanoo doesn't mean that it'll be destroyed.

-Itachi definitely took the brunt of Kirin's attack as it'd have to crash into his Susanoo and then spread out throughout the rest of the hill to destroy it, which is superior to FRS.
 

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Its because a skeletal allowed Itachi to survive Kirin, which is undeniably stronger than FRS going by what we've seen in the manga, and Sasuke's Final Susanoo is like 3 levels above a skeletal.
I understand. I was just question those who said it's durability was town level when it showed nothing.

Wrong. Itachi survived thanks to his final Susanoo, not the skeletal one. Itachi wasn't suicidal enough to take the risk in not using his full defense against the attack
How exactly do you know this? Like others pointed out, Final Susano'o can't be activated instantly, and as V4 has Yata, it makes no sense Susano'o was destroyed.

Kirin is natural lightning. Yata only repels elemental attacks according to hype, so even by hype, it shouldn't be able to repel natural lightning coming from outside environment(not made of elemental chakra). And even if it could, it is highly likely it's only an hyperbole. To which extent this actual hyperbole is valid is unknown by us, so there is actually no proof it could have repel it like you claim

Furthermore, don't forget Kirin only protects the front of Susanoo. It's even possible that yata didn't manage to protect against kirin, for the simple reason that the attack was coming from above

His final Susanoo was destroyed by Kirin given the fact that even despite it, he got greatly injured. After he got up, he was simply reforming the Susanoo from the skeletal one to his final one
You don't wanna go by hype. By hype, it blocks all attacks. Again, how do you know the Final Susano'o was destroyed? No evidence he used that, while there are solid arguments for why it was the skeletal form.

Skeletal Susano rearing doesn't signify anything. His Susano was possibly molten after Kirin hit the Susano. The lightning that hit the Susano was shown to be natural, meaning it's temperature is anywhere between 50,000 degrees and 55,000 degrees Fahrenheit. It's power was immense as well, destroying the entire Uchiha hideout. Skeletal Susano wouldn't have even reduced the force/stopped it, let alone completely tank it. Kirin's power is considered low city level on OBD, whereas no Susano other than PS has durability feats strong enough to tank this. However, with the Yata Mirror, he should've been capable of accomplishing this feat. OBD even states that Yata was used to block Kirin, since their is no way in hell a Susano that isn't a PS or Yata Susano can tank it.
I really don't get the outskirts battle dome thing.
 

NarutoIndra

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The strain won't differ if he uses Skeletal Susanoo and then climbs up to Final from when he goes Final right away.
Are you saying gradually increasing strain isn't easier than instantly adding an equivalent amount of strain instantaneously?


Um. It has been shown to repel what comes into contact with it, multiple times.

-Hydra's heads bounced back, this doesn't happen when coming in contact with a regular shield. [ ]

-Repelled explosive tags. [ ]

-Sasuke and his sword were replied. [ ] [ ]
It has only shown to repel attacks which consists of chakra. Lightning is not an elemental or chakra based attack when it comes from the sky. He may have had his Susano molten due to the intense heat (50,000+ fahrenheit) and the Yata ended up being deactivated due to the Susano going away. I can only speculate what occurred, one cannot come to an actual analysed conclusion of the fight since most scenes were covered with smoke.

Yata repels attacks that come in contact with it, it doesn't block them, and the calcs for Susanoo rely on the assumption that Yata was used to block it, but ended up getting ripped through. Though there is no evidence for this conclusion. I also find it extremely unlikely that Kishimoto is going to have Itachi use Yata, get it broken, and then have Zetsu hype it up as invincible one chapter later.

If Yata was used, it would have repelled the attack instead of simply blocking it and saving Itachi's life, as Yata repels attacks it doesn't just block them.
It's plausible. I have already showcased a scenario of the millions of scenarios that can be made for what had occurred. All these scenarios are just as possible as the other scenarios, and one could make a near infinite amount of scenarios for what occurred in this fight due to all the mysteries Kishi left.

Sasuke's has different layer of armor than his , so it does count as a kind of V5 Susanoo.


It doesn't need to. Enton has already been shown to consume FRS when used in a great enough quantity.
I disagree. It's extremely similar, that is like saying his legged susano is v6 and when he reaches a stabilised Susano it is a v7. There's usually a large difference when giving it a completely new 'v' and this one isn't a v5, since they are both considered Final Susano's.

What? Are you saying Sasuke will use Amateratsu at Naruto's Odama FRS while it's coming at him? I highly doubt it, even with intel I don't believe he would do so. Moreover, Sasuke has not shown to burn through the FRS, he was shown to stop its momentum with an Enton arrow. You could clearly see in the bottom left panel how the Enton arrow was obstructing the Odama FRS's spin [ ]. Just like the rasengan, if it loses its spin, it will lose its shape and won't be effective/working. For one, it would've been impossible to burn through the FRS within around .5 seconds. Within several seconds, Ay still had not lost/burned his arm. Saying it can somehow burn the air within the atmosphere is absurd, it was never stated Katon would burn right though Futon, it was simply stated it was stronger because the Katon would benefit from the 'power' increase. Amateratsu wouldn't burn though the FRS, only Enton arrows would stop the spinning of the FRS, stopping its capability to work. Hence why it didn't 'burn' though the Futon in this scan [ ]-->[ ].
 
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