-Intelligence 5
-Genjutsu 4.5
-Speed 5
-Strenght 5
-Power 5
-Ninjutsu 5
-Strategies 3
-Tactical 4
-Stamina 5
-Taijutsu 4.5
-Hand seal 5
------------------------------------------------------------------
-Intelligence - Tie
-Genjutsu - Tie
-Speed - Tie
-Strenght - Tie
-Power - Tie
-Ninjutsu - Tie (But Sasuke is superior since he has Amaterasu)
-Strategies - Madara is 1 higher
-Tactical - Sasuke is 1 higher
-Stamina - Tie
-Taijutsu - Madara wins by .5 (Madara is on par with Itachi in Taijutsu, Sasuke got wrecked by Itachi)
-Hand seal - Tie
Madara overall wins by .5, but Sasuke has Amaterasu.
No form off Madara is faster then Sasuke.3T/Curse Mark Sasuke is faster than Madara and he's proven it several Times, EMS Madara has no speed feats not even Rinnegan Madara. Juubi Jin Madz is fast but anything other NO
Madara is much faster than Sasuke and mastered the Sharingan so he'll see Sasuke build up the chakra and move accordingly. Madara also have knowledge of what Amaterasu is, even Tobirama showed to know what Amaterasu is so Madara either has Amaterasu or seen it used by another Uchiha. Also Amaterasu can be countered by other jutsu as Sasuke did with his Katon; it hits the katon and burns that up. Also are you forgetting that Madara fan reflects attacks back on the person as he did to Naruto's attack?
Sasuke haven't mastered PS and only shaped it around full BSM, he have yet to use full PS on his own. Hashirama effortlessly pulled Madara's PS off of full Kurama and you think Sasuke's PS would mean anything when he doesn't have much experiences with it? You do know Hashirama did have Bijuus 2-8 under his control before fighting Madara right? Hashirama was Hokage which can't just leave the village willy-nilly so he couldn't just go out hunting Bijuus as Hokage and he had 2-9 to give them out to other villagers after beating Madara.
Sasuke with EMS is stronger than Madara with EMS. Those are the simple facts.
Sasuke has amaterasu and the ability to control it. Madara with EMS (I'm assuming that when you say with EMS you mean when Madara was still alive at the VOTE), is clearly weaker since he doesn't possess amaterasu nor a means to get rid of it.
No he isn't, Sasuke skills and stats are far below Madara's. Madara fought the 5 Kages and was totally unserious enough to call it child's play while Sasuke with Taka fought 1 Kage and his 2 body guards and almost died as a result until Gaara saved him. The power gap between MS and PS isn't that large; they keep their sight, feel no side effect of using the MS jutsus, can use PS, and a bit more stronger since both MS's powers are combined. What makes you think Madara doesn't have Amaterasu? He never used his MS jutsu or Izuna's MS jutsus and we know MS jutsus are OP so the fact that Madara never had to even use them only adds to him being stronger.
Kurama was Madara's summon and he controlled him with his 3 tomoes Sharingan, Sasuke has his snake and hawk aren't being made into a big deal. Anyways Madara doesn't need Kurama to be stronger than Sasuke since his is stronger, this is why Orochimaru said EMS Sasuke will one day surpass Madara and not that he's as strong or stronger. Madara never used his MS jutsus and MS jutsus are OP so kishi can give Madara any power he wish, heck Limbo could be one of Madara's MS jutsu since it's a power Nagato couldn't even use.
That doesn't show Sasuke knowing how to full use his PS, he used it in a merger with Naruto's BSM. Madara does have full mastery of his Sharingan and of all of his powers unless Sasuke who only used it a few times. Madara has his 2 MS jutsu as well and every MS jutsu shown have been OP in their own way so I doubt Sasuke is stronger than someone who didn't even needs to fight seriously against 5 Kages while Sasuke with help almost died against 1 Kage when he had MS.
Well that means EMS Madara>EMS Sasuke since as you said it would be in time. They are talking about what they shown now, any person with common sense (meaning non-fanboys) can agree that Sasuke will surpass Madara in time but he's not there yet.
Just that is enough, in the sense that Sasuke has a one up on Madara simply by having amaterasu. Sasuke has the ability of amaterasu, and it is an extremely strong ability, no matter how you look at it. He has the ability to use it and never go blind. Tactic and strategies, sure Madara has those for sure. But Sasuke has fought people like Itachi and Danzo, and honestly I would say either of those two are way more strategic than Madara was while he was alive (atleast by the fights we saw). Madara always seemed to be brute strength rather than strategy. His strategy outside of fighting is definitely good though.
Yes spamming something does not make someone powerful. But sasuke is already powerful. His amaterasu is an extremely powerful jutsu and with him being extremely smart and taking advantage of every situation presented to him, it is likely that Madara will get burned in a fight and have no counters to amaterasu. Obito right after unlocking kamui spammed the shit out of it and was able to beat so many people instantly that even kakashi didn't have a chance of fighting by himself (he had mokuton as well, but it was the spamming of an op move like kamui that allowed him to live, and at the time Obito had like 0 tactical ability).
Warriors must have skills, and Goku and Vegeta are battle geniuses. Light is a strategic and all around mental genius. But to be honest, Goku and Vegeta hardly have a good strategy. As saiyans there need to fight people always gets in there way of making a plan that would actually be more beneficial. A good example is there complete ability to be able to find the androids and stop dr. gero from finishing them, instead they went with fighting and it got vegeta's arm broken and left several people near dead.
Amaterasu alone doesn't make him more powerful than madara, it is the fact that he has that power over Madara that makes him more powerful than EMS madara. If EMS Madara had the same amaterasu, he would be more powerful than Sasuke. But he doesn't.
Amaterasu alone will not win Sasuke a fight when he's facing someone with more skills in pretty much every category and experience. Madara's Fan would just reflect all of Sasuke's Enton attacks and his Susanoo tanks pretty much everything else Sasuke has. You do know Madara also have 2 unshown MS jutsus right? Unless Limbo is one of them since it's a power Nagato didn't use but if that is one then Sasuke can't see it without having the Sage's power up. Having Amaterasu doesn't really mean anything since Madara didn't care that Oonoki had Jinton or Mei had Lava and boiling elements over him; he simply stopped them from doing direct damages but he overall just played with them. He called fighting them child's play, he didn't really even use his Rinnegan power, only absorbed Ninjutsu as he had his fun. When they seen his Susanoo they all lost hope and tried to rally some courage but couldn't really do it.
Madara made 25 clones, this mean he split his power into 1/26 amongst each clone and himself who were all giving the Kages a really hard time. What will Sasuke do fighting 26 Madara's? I'm not talking about wood clones but shadow clones since Tobirama created Shadow clone and wood clones is shadow clones used with wood chakra so Madara would have shadow clone copied if he had wood clone copied. Madara's base Katon is much stronger than Sasuke's so Sasuke would be forced to use Amaterasu or Susanoo to block the attack but Sasuke doesn't have Stamina close to Madara's and can't maintain or use his strong jutsus for as long.
Madara's fan is a great counter for Amaterasu anyways.
Agreed^^ Guess many people forgot that Obito and Madara both used Madara's fan to reflect Naruto's Mini-Bijuudama haha Also Madara can simply use Katon to counter Amaterasu which will burn up the Katon and be done as Itachi had to close his eye after using it on Sasuke's Katon. Amaterasu still place a strain on Sasuke's eye as his eye bleeding is enough to show that. Madara also have stronger genjutsus under his belt, his 3 tomoes Sharingan controlled full Kurama when Sasuke and Itachi both said they would need MS for such a feat, Madara used Genjutsu to immobilize a ninja in the alliance after he was revived as an Edo Tensei and used a Genjutsu on A to immobilize him as well.
I respect your opinion, but from what we have seen there is no counter for a vote Madara with EMS to counter amaterasu. Also, flaming isn't always necessary it's nice to be able to have civil arguments.
Also the fan, while possibly being able to deflect amaterasu, it isn't a viable solution against it. The fan doesn't block his entire body and enton can manipulate around the fan.
I still think Sasuke has the advantage with amaterasu though.
I respect your opinion, but from what we have seen there is no counter for a vote Madara with EMS to counter amaterasu. Also, flaming isn't always necessary it's nice to be able to have civil arguments.
Also the fan, while possibly being able to deflect amaterasu, it isn't a viable solution against it. The fan doesn't block his entire body and enton can manipulate around the fan.
I still think Sasuke has the advantage with amaterasu though.
No form off Madara is faster then Sasuke.3T/Curse Mark Sasuke is faster than Madara and he's proven it several Times, EMS Madara has no speed feats not even Rinnegan Madara. Juubi Jin Madz is fast but anything other NO
Incorrect, Madara is much faster than Sasuke. Let me put it this way. Sasuke speed is less than A's speed which Naruto compared to the 3rd Raikage which his SM was able to react to with his sensory and this is Naruto's clone with 1/13th the power since Naruto made 12 clones prior. Upon being Revived, Madara speed blitz SM Naruto and Sai in a way that they couldn't evade it at all. Sasuke shown no training or power up that effects his speed to be better than when he fought A. Therefore Madara is faster than Sasuke and Hashirama said Madara had his old power so this is EMS speed.
Kishi nerfed Madara when he became the Juubi jin, Madara didn't use his Rinnegan abilities like deva path, absorb ninjutsu, weapon path, or summoning path and he did no use Susanoo after becoming Juubi Jin but did use it prior to become Juubi jin with no eyes and with 1 eye.
I respect your opinion, but from what we have seen there is no counter for a vote Madara with EMS to counter amaterasu. Also, flaming isn't always necessary it's nice to be able to have civil arguments.
Also the fan, while possibly being able to deflect amaterasu, it isn't a viable solution against it. The fan doesn't block his entire body and enton can manipulate around the fan.
I still think Sasuke has the advantage with amaterasu though.
Sasuke never shown to manipulate Enton after it's fired so that part about it manipulating around the fan doesn't count as a possibility. Enton is just Amaterasu shape manipulated into a shape like a blade, Arrow, dart like spike which Sasuke shoots. Madara's fan takes the attack and reflects the blast or power back at the user
