EMS Sasuke & KCM Naruto

[BenjerminGaye]

Nope. Naruto still has his 14 kcm clones. ems sasuke can barley handle the naruto in front of him.

 

[xxSAGExx]

Look kishimoto made Databooks. Look how they react to fight. Naruto instantly try do something and watch what happens next (Not smart at all)
Sasuke think about his next moves and etc. Fight vs Deidara, Danzo, Orochimaru. Show it.

You can't learn about your opponent if you don't see what they can do, Naruto knows that much. And don't get Sasuke's use of the Sharingan mistaken for smarts, all of his analyzing skills comes from his Sharingan, you don't se him coming up with plans or thinking about his next moves in base do you? It's pretty easy to come up with plans when you can see thru ninjutsu, gejutsu and taijutsu and see their strengths and weaknesses. Not Saying Sasuke isn't a genius because he is but you and most people seem to forget that it's not all Sasuke smarts but most of it that allows him to form strategies and plans is his Sharingan.

Are you for real? What's this garbage Poll? He is using the basic EMS yet Naruto is not even close to him in KCM so he have to adjust his power because Naruto lacks tremendously in that form to compete with Sasuke Lol

Do you not read the manga? There is no such thing as "basic EMS" There's only 1-3 tomoes, MS, EMS or Rinnegan. As for Naruto not being close to him, Naruto shown power that says otherwise. KM is al Naruto need to kill current Sasuke, all it takes I using the right strategy. And your statement about Sasuke needing to adjust his power to match Naruto's because he lacks power just discredit this post. 1/13th of Naruto's power was enough to beat 2 kages with minimal help where as Sasuke would have lost to Muu.

I can say MS Sasuke>SM Naruto....you don't want to get me start.​

Nope, Naruto has perfect SM now so he stays in SM as long as he wants. Ma can use dust cloud to cloud the Sharingan's vision, Ma and Pa prepare and use frog song and Sasuke is trapped since Sharingan doesn't work on sound base genjutsus. If 3 of Pains body couldn't break out with the Rinnegan then no way Sasuke can. I don't see Susanoo staying up without Sasuke concentration or focus to keep it up so when that falls, a finish blow will be easy. If it does stays up then Sasuke chakra will get drain until he's out. The only way I see breaking out of frog song is a teammate breaking you out.

Another thing is, SM Naruto vs 3rd Raikage shows Naruto is able to use his Sensory ability to sense attacks then evade as he did with the 3rd Raikage full speed. 3rd Raikage speed is faster than Amaterasu/Enton or Susanoo's arrow so Sasuke isn't hitting Naruto with those either.

EMS was the power up that allowed Madara to become on equal footing with Hashirama, do you really think that this is all that there is? The release from fatigue?
Also, we haven't seen whether Sasuke's genjutsu improved, what his Complete Susanoo's durability& list of techs., or if there is another jutsu gained from achieving EMS.
Again, compared to Naruto who we have seen plenty of feats from we have seen next to nothing from Sasuke.

"EMS was the power up that allowed Madara to become equal footing with Hashirama" sorry but if that was true then why did Madara need to first get Kurama before fighting Hashirama? He needed more power to fight Hashirama. And no it's not only release from the MS side effects, it gives the Uchiha back their light, aka their sight. You do know the Sharingan power only relies in their eyes so it I reasonable for them to get their sight back plus strengthens the power of the MS jutsus. For example, being able to better perceive the movements and jutsus of others.

Smartass, he isn't even gone full out in EMS and somebody made a thread if he is equal to KCM? Are you dumb?
He has yet to use his V4 of Susano'o and his Enton orb, also we still don't know the limits of his Enton.
What a ridiculous question if he is equal to KCM when he is above it...

Maybe it's the simple reason that EMS doesn't increase your chakra 100 folds if not more like Kurama's chakra does Naruto. Saying Sasuke haven't gone all out? You seem to forget that Naruto was training before the war and left training to join the war, he being in the war is part of his training to get use to his power in real battles. I already countered all of your arguments and showed with manga prove how Naruto KM is stronger than EMS Sasuke in your own thread.

EMS Sasuke stomps KCM Naruto

however, BM Naruto is another story entirely. he stomps Sasuke badly

How does EMS Sasuke stomp KM Naruto? Sasuke can't hit Naruto with Amaterasu/Enton or Susanoo's arrow and Naruto can use his chakra arm to pull Sasuke out of Susanoo and a Clone hits him with chou mini biduudama which kills him. Clearly KM wins this.

Okay, then...just open the spoiler​

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Yes, the Genjutsu becomes more powerful, but does Naruto have Genjutsu usage? no

The 3 Toads can be easily turn into ash with Amaterasu or Blaze Release.

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^Here is the Toads having so much trouble with Pain dogs forget about Beaked Bird summoning.

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^While Amaterasu easily destroyed Pain dogs and Beaked Bird summoning and Sasuke Amaterasu is superior to Itachi's in every way.

Power: yes, Naruto does have a lot of power in Sage Mode, but so does Susanoo.

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^Susanoo has proven that it has a dangerous power that can easily destroy the ground and this only Incomplete.

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^Again, yet another example of Susanoo power.

Sage Mode Clones or Clones doesn't matter in Sasuke's way.

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^Sasuke new Susanoo showed that it can easily damage multiple enemies at the same time and good use against a Clone user.

Sensor Ability: yes, Naruto is by far the best sensor in NV, but that Sensor Ability doesn't matter if your body can't move at the same speed.....it's like a Sharingan user.

Ninjutsu: Naruto has a good Ninjutsu usage, but none i mean none of his Rasengans or Rasenshurkien(his most power move is any use against Susanoo.

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^Ribcage Susanoo>>>>>>Chou Odama Rasengan

Susanoo>>>>>>Rasenshurkien

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^Susanoo>Gaara's Ultimate Defence and this was only the Incomplete Susanoo.........Final Susanoo>Complete Susanoo>Incomplete Susanoo>Ribcage Susanoo

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^Gaara's Ultimate Defence>3rd Railkage Ulimate Shield

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^3rd Railkage Ulimate Shield>Rasenshurkien

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^Susanoo arrow: this technique is easily on of the fastest in NV that a fast Ninja like "Kakashi" needed to use "Kamui" to save himself so unless you're saying SM Naruto is as fast as Kamui then you shouldn't even start debating.

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^Now this attack doesn't just have an amount of speed that's nearly hard to Dodge, but also a force that can easily go throw Mokuton.

When did SM Naruto dodged react Juubi beam or are making **** up like always to save yourself or maybe, are talking about BM? because if you are then this thread is about SM Naruto not BM Naruto.

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^Now the Railkage(who's the next to Naruto and Minato being the 3rd fastest Ninja in the world)need to go on his V2 just to counter the Amaterasu

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^CO even said "He's going to counter it with his "Shunshin no Jutsu" and this when he at his full speed.

Sasuk also has Hawk summoning.....he can easily fly and shot down Amaterasu fireballs and destroy Naruto's Clones and the Toads and Naruto no way to reach Sasuke.

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^Hawk Summoning

Last, but not least

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^Naruto himself admitted that his SM is Beneath Sasuke's MS......look how that turn out to be​

Now, it's your turn to tell me how SM Naruot beats MS Sasuke....take your time.​

First off, SM doesn't only increase genjutsus, it increase the power of all jutsus (nin,gen and Tai), increase endurance, durability, agility, speed, strength, recovery time, and stamina and gives you the best sensory ability in the manga. Pa toad told Naruto all of this. Next, you mentioned Naruto needs speed at least equal to that of someone else's to dodge them? Naruto's clone was able to sense and evade the 3rd Raikage's best attack by sensing the attack then moving, he planned to counter to waiting for the last moment but that shows that he can evade amaterasu/Enton and arrows because those are now as fast as the 3rd Raikage and neither is SM Naruto, it was all his sensory ability.

Your argument with Sasuke's Amaterasu being stronger than Itachi's, well Sasuke always shoots his as dart-like which can be evade, your scans only shows Itachi surprise attacking Nagato's summons which didn't know Itachi were their enemy. Nagato foresaw Amaterasu coming but that was when Itachi was under Kabuto's command, then KA broke Itachi out and Nagato didn't know this so neither did his summons. you made it seem like his summons saw amaterasu coming an couldn't do anything about it when they could have evaded if Nagato knew and was actually fighting Itachi.

Frog song paralyzes Sasuke in a sound base genjutsu which the Sharingan can't work against. As for Sasuke's Hawk, it's not Sasuke's fighting style to hiding far away. Remember Sasuke has no knowledge on SM so wouldn't know to stay away, he wouldn't know to not fight Naruto in Taijutsu either. Naruto can 1 hit a kage level ninja with just using the natural energy surrounding him so a direct attack would be even better.

You are correct. People should understand EMS sauke>KCM naruto>>SM naruto. As for BM Naruto>> EMS Sasuke.

Really? Naruto can fuse with Ma and Pa and proved that he can dodge attacks that have the speed of at least the 3rd Raikage. Amaterasu/Enton and Susanoo arrow are not as fast as the 3rd Raikage so Naruto can Dodge those. Frog Song will paralyze Sasuke and a Oodama Rasengan from below should do the trick, Base Naruto have been shown to uppercut from digging underneath his enemy. For KM, Make 3 clones, 2 clones move to the right and left of Sasuke and throw rasen-shuriken which does it's work as a distraction. The 3rd clone uses his chakra arms to grab Sasuke from underground and pull Sasuke from below and as he comes up both clones from the side Speed blitz Sasuke with chou mini bijuudama (a S rank jutsu) and that's game. BM tbb 1 hits, that's clear from the fact that it had the power equal to 5 Bijuus (2-7) combined and destroyed mountains.

If Sasuke isn't holding back why hasn't he used Complete Susanoo in battle yet?

it's pretty obvious isn't it? What good would Complete Susanoo do right now? Juubito already shown that he can easily break threw when he left that giant hole in Susanoo (ribs) hand. Complete susanoo limits Sasuke's movement which would leave him open and it was already shown that Juubito could sense when Sasuke is about to use Amaterasu and defend. Jinton was shown to be able to break thru Madara since Madara tried avoiding it more than the other attacks and Juubito's is much stronger because instead of only 3 elements it has at least 4. Did that help answer why Sasuke isn't using it?

Keeping up indicated that he was talking about speed.

Anyway... @ OP

base Sasuke>base Naruto

SM Naruto(Pain)>MS Sasuke(B)

SM Naruto=MS Sasuke with susanoo

KCM Naruto(preserving chakra)=EMS Sasuke with complete susanoo.

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KCM Naruto with full range of abilities= EMS Sasuke with final susanoo

BM Naruto>>> EMS Sasuke.

It takes a pefect susanoo to be on par with bijus.

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In viz translation, he doesn't claim that only the biju have power comparable to his PS, he claims that his PS rivals them, not surpasses them. Don't believe me? #467

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Considering Naruto's BM is as powerful as 5 bijus.... Sasuke's susanoo is no match.

No, when Minato said keeping up, he was talking about smarts. It couldn't have been Speed because Naruto wasn't using his speed. Minato commented on Sasuke being skilled for knowing to analyzing Juubito while the edo Hokage attack and test his power and movements. Then Naruto used his brain by grabbing Sasuke and Minato so Minato could teleport them to safety and away from juubito and said Naruto is keeping up aka even grounds as Sasuke in being smart.

Naruto has Perfect Sage Mode so can use frog song, dust cloud, boiling oil (oil+fire+wind), Stays in SM all added with what Naruto can do. Also Pa toad stated that Naruto learned all of Senjutsus to an extent which means he could to the jutsus Jiraiya displayed in the rain village.

 

[Lightning Release]

EMS Sasuke is more or less equal to CURRENT exhausted KCM Naruto, but BM Naruto stomps.

Edit; Forgot Naruto is exhausted and has had no rest for days. LOL.

Naruto stomps.

 

[Champ]

The way Kishi has displayed it they are about the same. Though.Sasuke has been leadin the charge and Naruto is just followin his lead. I assume BM is stronger, then Sasuke will show us a power from the Eternal we have yet to see. Wish kishi just let them two fight Obito by themselves

 

[slimreaper]

sasuke is holding back. EMS>KCM

 

[crono0929]

sasuke is holding back. EMS>KCM

Why is that? Because he hasn's used his final susanoo, the reason he hasn't used it os be ause he saw madara's, and decided not to be embarrased.

 

[slimreaper]

Why is that? Because he hasn's used his final susanoo, the reason he hasn't used it os be ause he saw madara's, and decided not to be embarrased.

im glad you talked to sasuke about that. either way hes holding back.

 

[Brooks]

You can't learn about your opponent if you don't see what they can do, Naruto knows that much. And don't get Sasuke's use of the Sharingan mistaken for smarts, all of his analyzing skills comes from his Sharingan, you don't se him coming up with plans or thinking about his next moves in base do you? It's pretty easy to come up with plans when you can see thru ninjutsu, gejutsu and taijutsu and see their strengths and weaknesses. Not Saying Sasuke isn't a genius because he is but you and most people seem to forget that it's not all Sasuke smarts but most of it that allows him to form strategies and plans is his Sharingan.



Do you not read the manga? There is no such thing as "basic EMS" There's only 1-3 tomoes, MS, EMS or Rinnegan. As for Naruto not being close to him, Naruto shown power that says otherwise. KM is al Naruto need to kill current Sasuke, all it takes I using the right strategy. And your statement about Sasuke needing to adjust his power to match Naruto's because he lacks power just discredit this post. 1/13th of Naruto's power was enough to beat 2 kages with minimal help where as Sasuke would have lost to Muu.



Nope, Naruto has perfect SM now so he stays in SM as long as he wants. Ma can use dust cloud to cloud the Sharingan's vision, Ma and Pa prepare and use frog song and Sasuke is trapped since Sharingan doesn't work on sound base genjutsus. If 3 of Pains body couldn't break out with the Rinnegan then no way Sasuke can. I don't see Susanoo staying up without Sasuke concentration or focus to keep it up so when that falls, a finish blow will be easy. If it does stays up then Sasuke chakra will get drain until he's out. The only way I see breaking out of frog song is a teammate breaking you out.

Another thing is, SM Naruto vs 3rd Raikage shows Naruto is able to use his Sensory ability to sense attacks then evade as he did with the 3rd Raikage full speed. 3rd Raikage speed is faster than Amaterasu/Enton or Susanoo's arrow so Sasuke isn't hitting Naruto with those either.



"EMS was the power up that allowed Madara to become equal footing with Hashirama" sorry but if that was true then why did Madara need to first get Kurama before fighting Hashirama? He needed more power to fight Hashirama. And no it's not only release from the MS side effects, it gives the Uchiha back their light, aka their sight. You do know the Sharingan power only relies in their eyes so it I reasonable for them to get their sight back plus strengthens the power of the MS jutsus. For example, being able to better perceive the movements and jutsus of others.



Maybe it's the simple reason that EMS doesn't increase your chakra 100 folds if not more like Kurama's chakra does Naruto. Saying Sasuke haven't gone all out? You seem to forget that Naruto was training before the war and left training to join the war, he being in the war is part of his training to get use to his power in real battles. I already countered all of your arguments and showed with manga prove how Naruto KM is stronger than EMS Sasuke in your own thread.



How does EMS Sasuke stomp KM Naruto? Sasuke can't hit Naruto with Amaterasu/Enton or Susanoo's arrow and Naruto can use his chakra arm to pull Sasuke out of Susanoo and a Clone hits him with chou mini biduudama which kills him. Clearly KM wins this.



First off, SM doesn't only increase genjutsus, it increase the power of all jutsus (nin,gen and Tai), increase endurance, durability, agility, speed, strength, recovery time, and stamina and gives you the best sensory ability in the manga. Pa toad told Naruto all of this. Next, you mentioned Naruto needs speed at least equal to that of someone else's to dodge them? Naruto's clone was able to sense and evade the 3rd Raikage's best attack by sensing the attack then moving, he planned to counter to waiting for the last moment but that shows that he can evade amaterasu/Enton and arrows because those are now as fast as the 3rd Raikage and neither is SM Naruto, it was all his sensory ability.

Your argument with Sasuke's Amaterasu being stronger than Itachi's, well Sasuke always shoots his as dart-like which can be evade, your scans only shows Itachi surprise attacking Nagato's summons which didn't know Itachi were their enemy. Nagato foresaw Amaterasu coming but that was when Itachi was under Kabuto's command, then KA broke Itachi out and Nagato didn't know this so neither did his summons. you made it seem like his summons saw amaterasu coming an couldn't do anything about it when they could have evaded if Nagato knew and was actually fighting Itachi.

Frog song paralyzes Sasuke in a sound base genjutsu which the Sharingan can't work against. As for Sasuke's Hawk, it's not Sasuke's fighting style to hiding far away. Remember Sasuke has no knowledge on SM so wouldn't know to stay away, he wouldn't know to not fight Naruto in Taijutsu either. Naruto can 1 hit a kage level ninja with just using the natural energy surrounding him so a direct attack would be even better.



Really? Naruto can fuse with Ma and Pa and proved that he can dodge attacks that have the speed of at least the 3rd Raikage. Amaterasu/Enton and Susanoo arrow are not as fast as the 3rd Raikage so Naruto can Dodge those. Frog Song will paralyze Sasuke and a Oodama Rasengan from below should do the trick, Base Naruto have been shown to uppercut from digging underneath his enemy. For KM, Make 3 clones, 2 clones move to the right and left of Sasuke and throw rasen-shuriken which does it's work as a distraction. The 3rd clone uses his chakra arms to grab Sasuke from underground and pull Sasuke from below and as he comes up both clones from the side Speed blitz Sasuke with chou mini bijuudama (a S rank jutsu) and that's game. BM tbb 1 hits, that's clear from the fact that it had the power equal to 5 Bijuus (2-7) combined and destroyed mountains.



it's pretty obvious isn't it? What good would Complete Susanoo do right now? Juubito already shown that he can easily break threw when he left that giant hole in Susanoo (ribs) hand. Complete susanoo limits Sasuke's movement which would leave him open and it was already shown that Juubito could sense when Sasuke is about to use Amaterasu and defend. Jinton was shown to be able to break thru Madara since Madara tried avoiding it more than the other attacks and Juubito's is much stronger because instead of only 3 elements it has at least 4. Did that help answer why Sasuke isn't using it?



No, when Minato said keeping up, he was talking about smarts. It couldn't have been Speed because Naruto wasn't using his speed. Minato commented on Sasuke being skilled for knowing to analyzing Juubito while the edo Hokage attack and test his power and movements. Then Naruto used his brain by grabbing Sasuke and Minato so Minato could teleport them to safety and away from juubito and said Naruto is keeping up aka even grounds as Sasuke in being smart.

Naruto has Perfect Sage Mode so can use frog song, dust cloud, boiling oil (oil+fire+wind), Stays in SM all added with what Naruto can do. Also Pa toad stated that Naruto learned all of Senjutsus to an extent which means he could to the jutsus Jiraiya displayed in the rain village.

It seems i will have to destroy another one today.....i will reply to your so call argument tomorrow.​