Edo/Rinnegan Madara= Base Hashirama+ EMS Madara + Nagato [by hype/manga statements]

[KidGamer65]

Well you brought good points I admit.

However you made one fatal mistake.

The mokujin used by Hashirama against Madara PS was NOT used by Base Hashirama BUT SM Hashirama.

so even if we follow logic:

Edo Madara Just sharingan power PS > base Hashirama
Edo Madara just sharingan power PS = Sage mode Hashirama using Mokujin.

Buddha > anything Edo Madara has shown until now.

I agree that Rinnefan techniques used on Nagato scale may be not enough combined with uchiha and senjuu power, but senjuu dna may enhance Rinnegan techniques power as well and we have never seen what full bloodline original wielder of rinnegan is capable of.

It may be just my opinion but do not uderstimate full potential of Rinnegan.

Also check manga before you laugh at someone's post

-Sage Mode has only shown to increase the scale of Hashirama's Mokuton jutsu, which in turn increases strength, hence Shinsuusenju being much bigger than everything else but the Mokujin and Mokuryu on its head being the same size with no notable power difference. The clones he makes in Sage Mode remain in Base, and Mokujin remains at its same exact level.

So no, Mokujin, is a base technique and was stalemating Perfect Susanoo.

Base Hashirama=<EMS Madara w/o Perfect Susanoo.

@bold: I've checked the manga, I can't say the same for you though.

 

[Transcendence]

We don't care someone who said ''Mei is superior to all akatsuki''. And manga only established Shinsuusenju > EMS Madara. Manga established edo Madara > EMS Madara. So now i can establish anything i want using feats.

So STFU KingMoron.

Pathetic.

You're coming to your own conclusions, not ones established in the manga. Your "theories" are merely theories until proven in the manga. Your own bias leads you to believe that Meteor's would beat Shinsenjuu, but the manga, regardless of angle, showed the meteor (secondary) was far smaller than Madara's Perfect Susano'o; his strongest technique, which is canonically below and much smaller than, Shinsenjuu.

Well you brought good points I admit.

However you made one fatal mistake.

The mokujin used by Hashirama against Madara PS was NOT used by Base Hashirama BUT SM Hashirama.

so even if we follow logic:

Edo Madara Just sharingan power PS > base Hashirama
Edo Madara just sharingan power PS = Sage mode Hashirama using Mokujin.

Buddha > anything Edo Madara has shown until now.

I agree that Rinnefan techniques used on Nagato scale may be not enough combined with uchiha and senjuu power, but senjuu dna may enhance Rinnegan techniques power as well and we have never seen what full bloodline original wielder of rinnegan is capable of.

It may be just my opinion but do not uderstimate full potential of Rinnegan.

Also check manga before you laugh at someone's post

You should probably analyze the manga before posting something like this. Hashirama was only in Sage Mode when he slammed the Gates on the Juubi. The rest of the fight scenes with Madara, were all Base Hashirama.

And all you seem to do is regurgitate the same things over and over; "Full potential of Rinnegan, equal this etc..."

Your conclusion regarding the gap between Uchiha Madara and Senju Hashirama is highly fallacious as well, given the manga establishes that Hashirama has always been superior and even with the strongest Bijuu coated with his strongest technique, Hashirama still triumphed. The Gap was never close, and it's only close now after modifications to Uchiha Madara, and that's still objective, since nothing in Madara's arsenal hints at being able to take down the colossal Shinsenjuu.

 

[KingHashirama]

We don't care someone who said ''Mei is superior to all akatsuki''. And manga only established Shinsuusenju > EMS Madara. Manga established edo Madara > EMS Madara. So now i can establish anything i want using feats.

So STFU KingMoron.

ohhhh Actually manga established Base Hashirama > Ems Madara =]

 

[Bronze]

Pathetic.

You're coming to your own conclusions, not ones established in the manga. Your "theories" are merely theories until proven in the manga. Your own bias leads you to believe that Meteor's would beat Shinsenjuu, but the manga, regardless of angle, showed the meteor (secondary) was far smaller than Madara's Perfect Susano'o; his strongest technique, which is canonically below and much smaller than, Shinsenjuu.




You should probably analyze the manga before posting something like this. Hashirama was only in Sage Mode when he slammed the Gates on the Juubi. The rest of the fight scenes with Madara, were all Base Hashirama.

And all you seem to do is regurgitate the same things over and over; "Full potential of Rinnegan, equal this etc..."

Your conclusion regarding the gap between Uchiha Madara and Senju Hashirama is highly fallacious as well, given the manga establishes that Hashirama has always been superior and even with the strongest Bijuu coated with his strongest technique, Hashirama still triumphed. The Gap was never close, and it's only close now after modifications to Uchiha Madara, and that's still objective, since nothing in Madara's arsenal hints at being able to take down the colossal Shinsenjuu.

This guy keeps replying everywhere i go. When you counter my theory then bullsh1t around.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Sorry i am not a homo who rides the wood for a characterLol



Oh no we have been over this. Don't bring your theories to discussions like this. The fact that you said Madara needs rinnegan techniques shows you don't believe he can use them when manga implied he can. So i can use same argument for SM.

Its already been showed Madara or Obito wanted to fight the Juubi to become its jinch even though they didn't have SM.

Sorry but you have to uderstand my post in wrong way.
I believe Madara can use all rinnegan techniques so much as I believe Hagoromo could use senjutsu

Sadly I can Not use neither of them in debate until manga panels support it.

 

[Bronze]

Sorry but you have to uderstand my post in wrong way.
I believe Madara can use all rinnegan techniques so much as I believe Hagoromo could use senjutsu

Sadly I can Not use neither of them in debate until manga panels support it.

...

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Manga says so.

 

[KCMNaruto]

...

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Manga says so.

I know but I didnt mean manga panel with statement or character'd speech but just manga panel with action where Madara uses each rinnegan technique.

Because even if we consider it as fact then still we can exactly says how powerfull madara rinnegan techniques are, does he have some unseen rinnegan techniques by us readers. Same with Sosp having sage mode.

How much powerfull sm boost could affect base sage of six paths.

Even if we know Madara's power of rinnegan >Nagato's power of rinnegan then we still dont know gap/ amount of power which differs Nagato and Madara.

That is the problem

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

This guy keeps replying everywhere i go. When you counter my theory then bullsh1t around.

He doesn't need to counter your BS theories because you know why?? Because they are theories and not manga facts....get off Madara's diick and stop acting like your fanfictions are manga facts

 

[KCMNaruto]

-Sage Mode has only shown to increase the scale of Hashirama's Mokuton jutsu, which in turn increases strength, hence Shinsuusenju being much bigger than everything else but the Mokujin and Mokuryu on its head being the same size with no notable power difference. The clones he makes in Sage Mode remain in Base, and Mokujin remains at its same exact level.

So no, Mokujin, is a base technique and was stalemating Perfect Susanoo.

Base Hashirama=<EMS Madara w/o Perfect Susanoo.

@bold: I've checked the manga, I can't say the same for you though.

I am sorry Mr smartass but you failed with knowledge about manga here.

Senjutsu is known for not only enhancing body and spirit stats but also improving power of technique.

Only just in rasengan case size may matter, but there is some cases where even it fails.

For example frs completed before throwing is same size in sm and base mode but still frs power in sage mode is supperior.

Also if really bigger size ->more powerfull in every case and that what sm does then show me Hashirama summoning shin suusenjuu in base form so I can see size difference.

Moreover you seem to lack knowledge what really sm does.

I wii remind you, Sage mode:

- boost all physical and spiritual stats
- gives sensing ability
- gives you uniqual sm techniques depending of animal style you train
- improves power and all techniques used in base mode.

Sadly for you manga supports my point and is on my side.

Sm hashirama's Mokujin > Base Hashirama's mokujin

Simple as that so edo madara ps = sm hashirama mokujin > base hashirama mokujin

Also nowhere on the manga was base Hashirama shown to be on par with edo Madara. Hahirama was almost all the time on defence until he entered sm.

Ems Madara without ps and base Hashirama are close to each other level

SM Hashirama with shin suusenjuu >= Ems Madara using kyuubi > Sm hashirama without shin suusenjuu = edo Madara PS > ems madara with ps >Base hashirama

It is simple as that but no just simple but also supported by manga.

Your turn because I have done my work/ task well to read manga correctly but I am not sure about you.

 

[Bronze]

I know but I didnt mean manga panel with statement or character'd speech but just manga panel with action where Madara uses each rinnegan technique.

Because even if we consider it as fact then still we can exactly says how powerfull madara rinnegan techniques are, does he have some unseen rinnegan techniques by us readers. Same with Sosp having sage mode.

How much powerfull sm boost could affect base sage of six paths.

Even if we know Madara's power of rinnegan >Nagato's power of rinnegan then we still dont know gap/ amount of power which differs Nagato and Madara.

That is the problem

They would be stronger than Nagato due to the fact Madara's powerful chakra makes his jutsu too strong. You don't have to see a character doing something to confirm it. It takes common sense thats all.

He doesn't need to counter your BS theories because you know why?? Because they are theories and not manga facts....get off Madara's diick and stop acting like your fanfictions are manga facts

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[KingHashirama]

I am sorry Mr smartass but you failed with knowledge about manga here.

Senjutsu is known for not only enhancing body and spirit stats but also improving power of technique.

Only just in rasengan case size may matter, but there is some cases where even it fails.

For example frs completed before throwing is same size in sm and base mode but still frs power in sage mode is supperior.

Also if really bigger size ->more powerfull in every case and that what sm does then show me Hashirama summoning shin suusenjuu in base form so I can see size difference.

Moreover you seem to lack knowledge what really sm does.

I wii remind you, Sage mode:

- boost all physical and spiritual stats
- gives sensing ability
- gives you uniqual sm techniques depending of animal style you train
- improves power and all techniques used in base mode.

Sadly for you manga supports my point and is on my side.

Sm hashirama's Mokujin > Base Hashirama's mokujin

Simple as that so edo madara ps = sm hashirama mokujin > base hashirama mokujin

Also nowhere on the manga was base Hashirama shown to be on par with edo Madara. Hahirama was almost all the time on defence until he entered sm.

Ems Madara without ps and base Hashirama are close to each other level

SM Hashirama with shin suusenjuu >= Ems Madara using kyuubi > Sm hashirama without shin suusenjuu = edo Madara PS > ems madara with ps >Base hashirama

It is simple as that but no just simple but also supported by manga.

Your turn because I have done my work/ task well to read manga correctly but I am not sure about you.

Notice that Hashirama had clones out. Who individually had the power to lead the juubi bijuu damas to the Ocean with their Jukai (tree world).. soo..

 

[RikudouMadara]

Pathetic.

You're coming to your own conclusions, not ones established in the manga. Your "theories" are merely theories until proven in the manga. Your own bias leads you to believe that Meteor's would beat Shinsenjuu, but the manga, regardless of angle, showed the meteor (secondary) was far smaller than Madara's Perfect Susano'o; his strongest technique, which is canonically below and much smaller than, Shinsenjuu.




You should probably analyze the manga before posting something like this. Hashirama was only in Sage Mode when he slammed the Gates on the Juubi. The rest of the fight scenes with Madara, were all Base Hashirama.

And all you seem to do is regurgitate the same things over and over; "Full potential of Rinnegan, equal this etc..."

Your conclusion regarding the gap between Uchiha Madara and Senju Hashirama is highly fallacious as well, given the manga establishes that Hashirama has always been superior and even with the strongest Bijuu coated with his strongest technique, Hashirama still triumphed. The Gap was never close, and it's only close now after modifications to Uchiha Madara, and that's still objective, since nothing in Madara's arsenal hints at being able to take down the colossal Shinsenjuu.

Hashirama was in SM after slamming Obito with his attack. Just saying.....

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Intentions are only to help.

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

They would be stronger than Nagato due to the fact Madara's powerful chakra makes his jutsu too strong. You don't have to see a character doing something to confirm it. It takes common sense thats all.

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Is that the best you got lol??? To tell me to shut up since Yiu have nothing to prove yourself right???

 

[Bronze]

Is that the best you got lol??? To tell me to shut up since Yiu have nothing to prove yourself right???

Already proved i am right. When you can prove with logic, manga that Shinsuusenju can beat meteor then we can talk. Until then my theory = fact.

 

[lordryoko]

Meteor > Shinsuusenju as i have estabilished using manga facts:

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So Madara > Hashirama.

Meteor couldn't even kill Onoki, Naruto, Temari, some fodder sensor blah blah blah....what makes you think it stands a chance against Shinsuusenju?

 

[~Naruto&Itachi~]

Already proved i am right. When you can prove with logic, manga that Shinsuusenju can beat meteor then we can talk. Until then my theory = fact.

Well until you prove with a manga page hashirama has rinnengan

 

[accept pain]

madara = Nagato > hashirama

 

[accept pain]

i highly doubt about madara or hashirama could beat nagato in reality

 

[NarutoIndra]

Hashirama is still stronger via Shisuusenju so......

 

[KidGamer65]

I am sorry Mr smartass but you failed with knowledge about manga here.

Senjutsu is known for not only enhancing body and spirit stats but also improving power of technique.

Only just in rasengan case size may matter, but there is some cases where even it fails.

For example frs completed before throwing is same size in sm and base mode but still frs power in sage mode is supperior.

Also if really bigger size ->more powerfull in every case and that what sm does then show me Hashirama summoning shin suusenjuu in base form so I can see size difference.

Moreover you seem to lack knowledge what really sm does.

FRS is completely made out of chakra, the fact Senjutsu chakra is used to make it (Completely made of chakra) means that its going to be powered up, cause Senjutsu chakra>Normal chakra. Now, is Mokuton made of chakra? No, go read the Databook entries and the manga. Mokuton is the earth itself being converted and controlled by Hashirama's chakra. Since its not being made of chakra, the only way to power it up is make it bigger. Saying Base Mokujin is weaker than SM Mokujin despite their being no size difference is the same as saying Gaara's sand should get a boost because its being controlled with Senjutsu chakra, even though that doesn't affect the properties of the sand itself, it just offers a method of control. The only time Senjutsu ever comes in play with Mokuton, is when Shinsuusenju is summoned, which is noticed by its scale compared to the others.

I have absolutely no reason to believe Mokujin or Mokuryu are stronger than when used in Sage Mode from Base Mode.



Sadly for you manga supports my point and is on my side.

Sm hashirama's Mokujin > Base Hashirama's mokujin

Simple as that so edo madara ps = sm hashirama mokujin > base hashirama mokujin

Also nowhere on the manga was base Hashirama shown to be on par with edo Madara. Hahirama was almost all the time on defence until he entered sm.

Ems Madara without ps and base Hashirama are close to each other level

SM Hashirama with shin suusenjuu >= Ems Madara using kyuubi > Sm hashirama without shin suusenjuu = edo Madara PS > ems madara with ps >Base hashirama

It is simple as that but no just simple but also supported by manga.

Your turn because I have done my work/ task well to read manga correctly but I am not sure about you.

Nope. Mokujin, a base technique was equaling PS, so Base Hashirama=>EMS Madara w/o PS.

What the hell are you talking about? He never fought Edo Madara until he entered Sage Mode, if you are going to spew BS, make sure its actually in the damn manga first, lol. Not to mention I've never seen Hashirama on defence, I see PS clashing with Mokujin, which Mokujin actually attacking back. Saying that they weren't fighting on par is nothing but lying about that manga.

Sage Mode has only boosted Hashirama's techniques by increasing the scale of his techniques in general. Mokujin made in Sage Mode is going to be the same as a Mokujin made in Base solely because of Mokuton's properties. I'm just gonna wait on this fictional massive boost Mokujin got despite all manga panels disagreeing.

Still going on about this EMS Madara w/Kyuubi<=SM Hashirama? When the victor is clear every single time? He overpowered him and defeated him, I'm not interested in your opinion here pal.