Edo Madara vs DSM Kabuto

[TRE MERCER]

That newbie was ranked higher than you on the debater tier list. You sure you can trash any arguments he has?

Scenario 1: Kabuto can summon Edo Tensei Itachi and Nagato Kabuto wins high difficulty.
Scenario 2: Kabuto can summon ET Itachi, Nagato, Third Raikage, Muu, Gengetsu, Deidara Kabuto wins mid difficulty.
Scenario 3: Kabuto can use all edos. Kabuto wins low-mid difficulty.

Hold this L for using that tier list as a reference.​

 

[Brother Numpsay]

-Manda 2 is

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with legged V4 Susanoo

This isnt evidence that concludes he can:

1. Sasuke has a different weapon then Madara
2. Sasuke was powered by Kurama's chakra
3. Tearing threw a massive wood would not share the same feat as tearing a wall of meat. A perfect example would be Madara slashing at a wall of sand with v4.

and its attacks are tanked with no damage.

Considering the strength of 9 Buijuu tails smash it. Manda 2 mass, alone, would do close to that kind of damage.

Madara can control it with genjutsu and turn it against Kabuto or dances around it then brains the snake through the eye with a Susanoo sword.

Not by Kabuto's fighting style, which fights by making counter measures of Sharingan genjutsu. Which Manda 2 would already activate its brille.

Mokuton can be used first to immobilize it if needed (

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).

Difference between Aoba and Manda, is Manda has shown the ability to slough off its skin, so he easily slips off, worst case scenario.

He can swing his Susanoo sword causing shockwaves to

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.

I seen this counter many times. Even if I were to accept that the highest form of Madara's Susanoo can use shockwaves too, this does not counter the genjutsu.

wind circulation functions much differently then shockwaves. Sound is not being picked up by shockwaves and continue with it. Lets say that it can illogically happen, in order for this to be effective is to have the shockwave continously take the sound, one after another, and make sure Kabuto stops playing it, as Temari did to Tayuya.

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Or he escapes out of the genjutsu with partner method via wood clones or shadow clones.

Clone canonically shown can be under genjutsu so no. Yet alone this genjutsu halts your jutsu too, so they get canceled.

Not to mention, Kabuto isn't prepping that genjutsu anyway.

Base on what?

 

[Mugen Onsa]

Hold this L for using that tier list as a reference.​

I know right!?! You and Unorthodox were in Tier 4 but you guys really should have been in Tier 5, smh.

 

[TRE MERCER]

I know right!?! You and Unorthodox were in Tier 4 but you guys really should have been in Tier 5, smh.

Oh im not salty about my rank i was salty that he put himself in tier 1. Also get off your alt Kingsmoke. Plus are you still mad about what i said on your thread l0l.​

 

[Beans2]

This isnt evidence that concludes he can:

1. Sasuke has a different weapon then Madara
2. Sasuke was powered by Kurama's chakra
3. Tearing threw a massive wood would not share the same feat as tearing a wall of meat. A perfect example would be Madara slashing at a wall of sand with v4.

-Don't see why Sasuke's weapon would be superior.
-That was a V3 Susanoo powered by a kyubi cloak which by scaling = Madara's V4 Susanoo. Madara's V3 Susanoo alone already

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a double

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, when a much weaker rock golem could tank

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. and Gaara's sand

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. Tearing through both puts V3 Susanoo's attacks on par with C3, not to mention V4 which would dice Manda 2 with several slashes.
-When did Madara slash a wall of sand with V4? Gaara's sand tanked a

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but that's nothing compared to Madara's full power V4 Susanoo sword slashes as V3

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. A wall of meat is not more durable than that God Tree branch. Itachi sliced off 7 Hydra heads with a single sword slash. Manda 2 has no durability feats which let it tank Madara's Susanoo slashes so legged V4 manhandles it.

not to mention Manda 2 doesn't even need to be bisected, since cuts along its body length open it up and let organs spill out, or piercing attacks from Susanoo brain it through the eyeballs.

Considering the strength of 9 Buijuu tails smash it. Manda 2 mass, alone, would do close to that kind of damage.

Mass alone does nothing to Susanoo since Force = mass x acceleration so if it's attack is lacking in force it doesn't have sufficient power to bust Susanoo. A tail whip from Manda 2 would be nowhere near the strength of

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including Kurama, whose single tail whip was

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. Manda 2 also is not keeping up with the speed of a legged Susanoo that dances around its attacks.

Not by Kabuto's fighting style, which fights by making counter measures of Sharingan genjutsu. Which Manda 2 would already activate its brille.

Kabuto's fighting style. Not Manda's. It has zero countermeasures for Madara getting in its face and forcing eye contact like he did against Ay.

Difference between Aoba and Manda, is Manda has shown the ability to slough off its skin, so he easily slips off, worst case scenario.

All snakes can shed their skin. Madara would

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with a Susanoo sword before he can finish shedding skin.

I seen this counter many times. Even if I were to accept that the highest form of Madara's Susanoo can use shockwaves too, this does not counter the genjutsu.

wind circulation functions much differently then shockwaves. Sound is not being picked up by shockwaves and continue with it. Lets say that it can illogically happen, in order for this to be effective is to have the shockwave continously take the sound, one after another, and make sure Kabuto stops playing it, as Temari did to Tayuya.

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Wind is literally just perceptible movement of air. Susanoo shockwaves were

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and the force from just the shockwaves can

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. The wind from the shockwaves blows back the sound waves from the flute genjutsu and he can continue making slashes to keep the genjutsu at bay.

Clone canonically shown can be under genjutsu so no. Yet alone this genjutsu halts your jutsu too, so they get canceled.

If there's more targets under the genjutsu, then its effect is weakened since the same amount of chakra is being used to keep them all in a genjutsu as it ordinarily would take against a single target. So Madara can just straight up break out of the genjutsu by disturbing his chakra, or he uses the exact same method Itachi and Sasuke used, except with clones.

Base on what?

Madara would blitz the shit out of Kabuto before he summons Sakon, who summons Kimimaro, who makes a blone flute, then Kabuto has to summon Tayuya, who then has to actually play the genjutsu. Blind Madara practically blitzed SM Naruto with his footspeed, and was able to react to V2 Ay.

 

[Songbird Supreme]

Madara would blitz the shit out of Kabuto before he summons Sakon,

What?

 

[Omar19992010]

Summoning are irellivant in fights against Sharingan users. They just get put into Genjutsu.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

-Don't see why Sasuke's weapon would be superior.
-That was a V3 Susanoo powered by a kyubi cloak which by scaling = Madara's V4 Susanoo. Madara's V3 Susanoo alone already

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a double

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, when a much weaker rock golem could tank

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. and Gaara's sand

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. Tearing through both puts V3 Susanoo's attacks on par with C3, not to mention V4 which would dice Manda 2 with several slashes.
-When did Madara slash a wall of sand with V4? Gaara's sand tanked a

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but that's nothing compared to Madara's full power V4 Susanoo sword slashes as V3

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. A wall of meat is not more durable than that God Tree branch. Itachi sliced off 7 Hydra heads with a single sword slash. Manda 2 has no durability feats which let it tank Madara's Susanoo slashes so legged V4 manhandles it.

not to mention Manda 2 doesn't even need to be bisected, since cuts along its body length open it up and let organs spill out, or piercing attacks from Susanoo brain it through the eyeballs.

-The weapons themselves have superiority over another. Sabre (Sasuke) his weapon pattern works best at slashing. Kris (Madara) his weapon pattern works best at stabbing.
-Um no its the same Susanoo version. Legged Susanoo's always uses V3 body in legs, fact. Even till the end of manga, Ridokou Sasuke. So you are well misinformed here. Your example also doesn't make sense since Yasaka Magatama =/= Kris (Madara's weapons). So your just mix matching feats that dont even apply here. In fact reading this whole post, your whole argument is base on mix matching feats that dont apply to your premise on how legged Susanoo rips Manda 2 apart.

Mass alone does nothing to Susanoo since Force = mass x acceleration so if it's attack is lacking in force it doesn't have sufficient power to bust Susanoo. A tail whip from Manda 2 would be nowhere near the strength of

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including Kurama, whose single tail whip was

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. Manda 2 also is not keeping up with the speed of a legged Susanoo that dances around its attacks.

Obviously that shouldn't be read out of context. Obviously my premise implies that Manda 2 smashing his tail against would suffice, so no need to bring up the equation, when you are aware I meant the action of tail whip is behind the acceleration is moving with its mass. I dont think you even understand the "mass" Manda 2 actually has, to make that claim that it would do no where near what Buijuu's did. Manda 2 completely dwarfs Buijuu. His body can be scaled from a single tail of Juubi's .When crawling on Turtles Island Back, it was breaking down stakes, that can hold Gyuuki's body weight, while firing a TBB, which makes him even heaver. Now you have a superior Manda, while levels and destroyer ground with tail swipes with ease facing that kind of mass with a tail swipe and you think it isn't enough? Yeah, no.

Kabuto's fighting style. Not Manda's. It has zero countermeasures for Madara getting in its face and forcing eye contact like he did against Ay.

Did Kabuto not use snakes the first time for countermeasures? Stop this.

Every snake carries the trait of brille. Manda 2 follows orders. And uses it, period.

All snakes can shed their skin. Madara would

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with a Susanoo sword before he can finish shedding skin.

Even though you have no proof that all snakes have the ability, I just accept it. Doesn't change the fact that you use Juubi grip as evidence, and that it doesn't change the counter that he could escape it. Then you are showing that you are completely uninformed of Manda 2 size if you think that Susanoo weapon is going to be as big compare to Manda 2 head.

Wind is literally just perceptible movement of air. Susanoo shockwaves were

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and the force from just the shockwaves can

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. The wind from the shockwaves blows back the sound waves from the flute genjutsu and he can continue making slashes to keep the genjutsu at bay.

You attempt to prove yourself base on these scans when they dont even support you. Madara slash downward leveling the ground, which made them flying. If you read the panel before, you would see that fodders when getting slash point blank from it. Do you see shockwaves continually going through their body? Since if it did, they would have been split in half. Come on bro.. These arent counters but desperate reach for one.

If there's more targets under the genjutsu, then its effect is weakened since the same amount of chakra is being used to keep them all in a genjutsu as it ordinarily would take against a single target. So Madara can just straight up break out of the genjutsu by disturbing his chakra, or he uses the exact same method Itachi and Sasuke used, except with clones.

@Bold: Lol why are you making stuff up. No where does manga support this claim at all. Zero. Everyone caught in Gengetsu wide field genjutsu got = amount, doesn't get weaken. No evidence that Animal Path, Petra, and Human have different effect. This is you reaching again.

And you still ignored the fact that clones get canceled since this genjutsu, not only restrains the opponent, but halts the opponents jutsus.

Madara would blitz the shit out of Kabuto before he summons Sakon, who summons Kimimaro, who makes a blone flute, then Kabuto has to summon Tayuya, who then has to actually play the genjutsu. Blind Madara practically blitzed SM Naruto with his footspeed, and was able to react to V2 Ay.

Lol stop Madara isn't blitzing crap when its arguable that susanoo arrow moves faster then him, which he reacted. And the fact that the battle doesn't even have to start off making DNA, but with summonings keeping him at bay. Literally theres no way Madara is stopping Kabuto from doing something.

Summoning are irellivant in fights against Sharingan users. They just get put into Genjutsu.

Except Snakes are able to block their vision, with their brille.

 

[blazekev90]

People are still using the "snakes genjutsu gg" argument?! Lol

Manga fact they can count visual genjutsu.

 

[Icelerate]

Flower tree world followed by wood dragon solos DSM Kabuto.

 

[BLAZE]

Kyuubi negs :|

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Flower tree world followed by wood dragon solos DSM Kabuto.

Changing his insides to [

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] can mess with his nervous system, which the pollen takes effect when putting someone to sleep. So not working here.

 

[Icelerate]

Changing his insides to [

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] can mess with his nervous system, which the pollen takes effect when putting someone to sleep. So not working here.

No, a water body doesn't prevent Suigetsu from getting poisoned and pollen works similarly. Turning to liquid doesn't mess with his nervous system or else the hydrification user can't do anything because their brain signals would be messed up like you said.

 

[Beans2]

^ @Ejblack I'm going to sleep. You have until 11 AM central standard time to edit your post saying you concede.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

^ @Ejblack I'm going to sleep. You have until 11 AM central standard time to edit your post saying you concede this match up.

Lol WHAT! By far im not going to concede. Reading your arguments makes me baffle. They dont make sense and making unrealistic claims. Completely overrating the characer along with it. Its you who needs to admit it. Yet going to turn around and continue to call me a wanker, get outta here.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

No, a water body doesn't prevent Suigetsu from getting poisoned and pollen works similarly. Turning to liquid doesn't mess with his nervous system or else the hydrification user can't do anything because their brain signals would be messed up like you said.

??? Water causes dilution, fact. This is also fiction on top of that, which can break their whole body down to a puddle and reform back. The scan I literally post shows Suigetsu attaching his body to a fence while holding someone down. If you were to be realistic then the nervous system should of told him pain.

Your thinking too hard here

 

[makosheva7]

Kabuto loses S1, wins all other.

 

[Beans2]

-The weapons themselves have superiority over another. Sabre (Sasuke) his weapon pattern works best at slashing. Kris (Madara) his weapon pattern works best at stabbing.

Gonna need some proof, cause I'm not seeing any.

-Um no its the same Susanoo version. Legged Susanoo's always uses V3 body in legs, fact. Even till the end of manga, Ridokou Sasuke. So you are well misinformed here.

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.

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.

No they are completely different Susanoo versions.

Your example also doesn't make sense since Yasaka Magatama =/= Kris (Madara's weapons). So your just mix matching feats that dont even apply here. In fact reading this whole post, your whole argument is base on mix matching feats that dont apply to your premise on how legged Susanoo rips Manda 2 apart.

Lol when did I ever mention Yasaka Magatama? Madara's V3 Susanoo, which sliced apart Gaara's sand defense on top of Onoki's rock golem with a single slash. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not "mix matching feats". I'm showing you evidence but you can't even show me a single durability feat from Manda 2 that proves it can tank V4 Susanoo's attacks. Manda 2's best durability feat is tanking the rock spikes on Turtle Island's back. Literally nothing you've said gives me any reason to believe it will tank Susanoo.

Obviously that shouldn't be read out of context. Obviously my premise implies that Manda 2 smashing his tail against would suffice, so no need to bring up the equation, when you are aware I meant the action of tail whip is behind the acceleration is moving with its mass. I dont think you even understand the "mass" Manda 2 actually has, to make that claim that it would do no where near what Buijuu's did. Manda 2 completely dwarfs Buijuu. His body can be scaled from a single tail of Juubi's .When crawling on Turtles Island Back, it was breaking down stakes, that can hold Gyuuki's body weight, while firing a TBB, which makes him even heaver. Now you have a superior Manda, while levels and destroyer ground with tail swipes with ease facing that kind of mass with a tail swipe and you think it isn't enough? Yeah, no.

Oh man. A tail whip from Manda obliterates V4 Susanoo....no. A V3 tanked a tail whip from Naruto's avatar which has the physical strength to

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with its tail. If your assertion would even begin to make sense, you'd have to prove:

-that Manda 2's tail whip is fast enough to even hit Madara
-that Manda 2's tail whip has superior strength to Kurama Avatar
-that Manda 2's tail whip has enough force behind it to destroy Susanoo

Cause I'm seeing zero reasons to believe what you're saying, other than "Manda 2 is big, so it's strong enough to bust Susanoo." Size=/=strength. You'll need to start showing some feats soon or else there won't be anything for me to counter.

Did Kabuto not use snakes the first time for countermeasures? Stop this.
Every snake carries the trait of brille. Manda 2 follows orders. And uses it, period.

So because snakes can sense heat, and smell through their tongues, Manda can battle completely fine without using eyesight? If that's the case, Madara cuts it to pieces with Susanoo.

Even though you have no proof that all snakes have the ability, I just accept it. Doesn't change the fact that you use Juubi grip as evidence, and that it doesn't change the counter that he could escape it. Then you are showing that you are completely uninformed of Manda 2 size if you think that Susanoo weapon is going to be as big compare to Manda 2 head.

Lol.

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No, you're completely uninformed if you think Manda will just tank a stabbing attack through the mouth from

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Susanoo.

You attempt to prove yourself base on these scans when they dont even support you. Madara slash downward leveling the ground, which made them flying. If you read the panel before, you would see that fodders when getting slash point blank from it. Do you see shockwaves continually going through their body? Since if it did, they would have been split in half.

So? What's your point? Some fodders were cut in half, the ones further away were sent flying by the shockwave. You haven't disproven anything, all I see is you just denying that it would work without actually giving me reasons why it wouldn't. You even acknowledged that Madara's slash is what sent them flying.

Shockwaves would blow away the soundwaves because they are stronger than the soundwaves, evidenced by how a V2 Susanoo slash sent people flying and Perfect Susanoo slash was literally slicing mountains in half. V4 Susanoo's slash would be somewhere in between that which is still >>>>>>> soundwaves from the flute genjutsu, which was blown back by Part 1 Temari's fuuton.

Come on bro.. These arent counters but desperate reach for one.

This is getting old real quick. You call my arguments desperate reach but you don't even have an argument. Lol. It's basically: "Manda 2 tanks Susanoo attacks, prove me wrong" but you don't provide any reason for why Manda would tank them. "Flute genjutsu one shots, prove me wrong", and when I do prove you wrong you continue to spout nonsense, like wind works differently than shockwaves.

@Bold: Lol why are you making stuff up. No where does manga support this claim at all. Zero. Everyone caught in Gengetsu wide field genjutsu got = amount, doesn't get weaken. No evidence that Animal Path, Petra, and Human have different effect. This is you reaching again.

It takes more chakra and effort on Kabuto's part to keep 25 targets under a genjutsu than it would for only 1 target. That's a no limits fallacy to assume that genjutsu would keep many targets under a genjutsu, and have that genjutsu be just as strong as it would be if used on one target when its chakra is distributed among 25 targets to keep them all under genjutsu, so logically the genjutsu would be weaker. It obviously would take more effort on Kabuto's part to keep 25 opponents under a genjutsu than it does to keep 1 opponent under a genjutsu.

I know you're going to bring up the Mizukage's clam genjutsu, but think of how weak that genjutsu really was shown to be. All it did was create a mirage and hide the clam's actual location. It didn't paralyze opponents like mugen onsa does, and it didn't put anyone in a genjutsu world. Besides, there's nothing to compare it to so it's rightful to assume that genjutsu would be a lot stronger if used on fewer opponents.

And you still ignored the fact that clones get canceled since this genjutsu, not only restrains the opponent, but halts the opponents jutsus.

I assume you're referring to how Tayuya stated that it halts the opponent's move? Fact is, the moves that genjutsu has halted are shadow posession and a ribcage Susanoo because they were connected to the user's chakra and required chakra to be molded in order to continue using that jutsu. If Madara stops molding chakra, guess what, that doesn't affect clones that are out on the battlefield. Another no limits fallacy if you think that genjutsu will actually cancel any jutsu the user is using, like Rinnegan Sasuke's PS. So there's nothing stopping Madara here from straight up breaking the jutsu with kai release, or escaping it the exact same way Sasuke and Itachi did, using a clone.

Lol stop Madara isn't blitzing crap when its arguable that susanoo arrow moves faster then him, which he reacted. And the fact that the battle doesn't even have to start off making DNA, but with summonings keeping him at bay. Literally theres no way Madara is stopping Kabuto from doing something.

Except summons don't keep Madara at bay, he shits on them with zero effort. Except Kabuto didn't dodge that arrow while preparing a flute genjutsu which takes a lot of prep time compared to Madara's shunshin speed.

Lol WHAT! By far im not going to concede. Reading your arguments makes me baffle. They dont make sense and making unrealistic claims. Completely overrating the characer along with it. Its you who needs to admit it. Yet going to turn around and continue to call me a wanker, get outta here.

The irony in this statement, lol. This is what I meant by you never give up even when proven wrong.

 

[wael reda]

I really don't see any one of kabuto's edos has something against this version of susano except for jinton

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[Brother Numpsay]

Got time for one reply before ballin

Gonna need some proof, cause I'm not seeing any.

Google or youtube history of both weapons use.

You wouldnt compare a tanto to a sabre, as to comparing any weapon itself, providing "same damage" output.

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.

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.

No they are completely different Susanoo versions.

How about you read the manga?

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Lol when did I ever mention Yasaka Magatama? Madara's V3 Susanoo, which sliced apart Gaara's sand defense on top of Onoki's rock golem with a single slash. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not "mix matching feats". I'm showing you evidence but you can't even show me a single durability feat from Manda 2 that proves it can tank V4 Susanoo's attacks. Manda 2's best durability feat is tanking the rock spikes on Turtle Island's back. Literally nothing you've said gives me any reason to believe it will tank Susanoo.

@Bold then read the manga, as it was not slashes from its sword but throwing Magatamas[

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]

How about you read my arguments properly. When did I say Manda 2 can tank his attack? My argument is base on the output a restricted Susanoo could do isn't going to suffice when taking down Manda 2.

Oh man. A tail whip from Manda obliterates V4 Susanoo....no. A V3 tanked a tail whip from Naruto's avatar which has the physical strength to

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with its tail. If your assertion would even begin to make sense, you'd have to prove:

-that Manda 2's tail whip is fast enough to even hit Madara
-that Manda 2's tail whip has superior strength to Kurama Avatar
-that Manda 2's tail whip has enough force behind it to destroy Susanoo

Cause I'm seeing zero reasons to believe what you're saying, other than "Manda 2 is big, so it's strong enough to bust Susanoo." Size=/=strength. You'll need to start showing some feats soon or else there won't be anything for me to counter.

Nice to know you dont even know Madara's susanoo version to make an argument. Until you understand the version of Susanoo is available with OP then this can go somewhere,

So because snakes can sense heat, and smell through their tongues, Manda can battle completely fine without using eyesight? If that's the case, Madara cuts it to pieces with Susanoo.

@Bold Lol nice excuse like it suppose to low the summons down. Not by manga canon they aren't, as Itachi commented[

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]. Itachi stated they their movements easily tracks them.

Lol.

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No, you're completely uninformed if you think Manda will just tank a stabbing attack through the mouth from

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Susanoo.

Obviously snakes can naturally shed their skin. And Obviously I meant it a ninjutsu technique, that could be use more then once, like oral rebirth.

So? What's your point? Some fodders were cut in half, the ones further away were sent flying by the shockwave. You haven't disproven anything, all I see is you just denying that it would work without actually giving me reasons why it wouldn't. You even acknowledged that Madara's slash is what sent them flying.

Lol I dont acknowledge someone one who can't read the manga properly. Leveling the ground doesnt = being able to repel sound thats just plain stupid. Some fodders getting cut (NOT cut in half, if you actually read the damn bottom right panel) could have done much much more then what you are claiming the power behind these attack.

Read the manga properly.

Shockwaves would blow away the soundwaves because they are stronger than the soundwaves, evidenced by how a V2 Susanoo slash sent people flying and Perfect Susanoo slash was literally slicing mountains in half. V4 Susanoo's slash would be somewhere in between that which is still >>>>>>> soundwaves from the flute genjutsu, which was blown back by Part 1 Temari's fuuton.

Until you understand that all those feats of Susanoo using shockwaves are PS then we can talk. Ill educate you on how shockwaves function later, when encountering sound.

This is getting old real quick. You call my arguments desperate reach but you don't even have an argument. Lol. It's basically: "Manda 2 tanks Susanoo attacks, prove me wrong" but you don't provide any reason for why Manda would tank them. "Flute genjutsu one shots, prove me wrong", and when I do prove you wrong you continue to spout nonsense, like wind works differently than shockwaves.

Indeed this is getting old:

-Can't read manga properly to prove a point

-Can't read my arguments properly and misrepresenting them.

-Dont understand how shockwaves and air currents work, nor understand that if blown away, manga stated that all it does is delay the process not beat it. And since you can't understand, therefore it sounds nonsense to you.

It takes more chakra and effort on Kabuto's part to keep 25 targets under a genjutsu than it would for only 1 target. That's a no limits fallacy to assume that genjutsu would keep many targets under a genjutsu, and have that genjutsu be just as strong as it would be if used on one target when its chakra is distributed among 25 targets to keep them all under genjutsu, so logically the genjutsu would be weaker. It obviously would take more effort on Kabuto's part to keep 25 opponents under a genjutsu than it does to keep 1 opponent under a genjutsu.

I know you're going to bring up the Mizukage's clam genjutsu, but think of how weak that genjutsu really was shown to be. All it did was create a mirage and hide the clam's actual location. It didn't paralyze opponents like mugen onsa does, and it didn't put anyone in a genjutsu world. Besides, there's nothing to compare it to so it's rightful to assume that genjutsu would be a lot stronger if used on fewer opponents.

Nice to know you can't follow manga so you go by your bias, asspull to articulate an argument. Genjutsu effect =/= Ninjutsu. The opponent gets equal amount of effectiveness in genjutsu and breaking out solely depends on the user, chakra control, etc. Sound is a wide field Genjutsu for a reason as it can effect a whole field of opponents. Facts. No amount of bias asspull arguments can you make do actually be some "legit" counter.

I assume you're referring to how Tayuya stated that it halts the opponent's move? Fact is, the moves that genjutsu has halted are shadow posession and a ribcage Susanoo because they were connected to the user's chakra and required chakra to be molded in order to continue using that jutsu. If Madara stops molding chakra, guess what, that doesn't affect clones that are out on the battlefield. Another no limits fallacy if you think that genjutsu will actually cancel any jutsu the user is using, like Rinnegan Sasuke's PS. So there's nothing stopping Madara here from straight up breaking the jutsu with kai release, or escaping it the exact same way Sasuke and Itachi did, using a clone.

@Bold, being able to halt the things in manga doesn't limit the effect of the statement made. Plus the fact it canon fact that if anything happens to the orignal user, Like Neji and Kaguya tried to do, the clones can no longer be supported. And by feats we seen this happen, as Naruto got poisoned and clones couldn't respond[

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]. Or When Sai was put to sleep by Sakura, his clone could no longer be supported.

Except summons don't keep Madara at bay, he shits on them with zero effort. Except Kabuto didn't dodge that arrow while preparing a flute genjutsu which takes a lot of prep time compared to Madara's shunshin speed.

Nice wank this isn't an argument. Even if Madara can whoop summons that doesn't prove that he can simultaneously whoop a field of snakes and blitz Kabuto from forming a seal.

A scenario of Kabuto not dodging arrow while preparing genjutsu doesn't disprove that he could.
Fact 1: Kabuto canonically can react to those movements
Fact 2: DNA response on their own, like Sakon's KKG does.

Therefore when Kabuto is reacting to those movement the DNA only needs to worry of finishing the jutsu. Kabuto does all the walking and Tayuya does all the talking.

The irony in this statement, lol. This is what I meant by you never give up even when proven wrong.

Yea clearly irony. So confident that you know what you talking about. And by the end of this debate you will still be sprouting bs about me, despite looking poor.