Edo Madara and Sage Kabuto vs Minato and Naruto

[Brother Numpsay]

Haven't seen him do anything noteworthy with hashis cells. And the 5 element seal thing is a joke. How's he gonna touch their stomachs, and wouldn't minato easily break such a thing.

How you going see any noteworthy when he never use it to benefit himself in the manga? How does that disprove his ability to take ones cells thats not his and manifiest those cell to duplicate the character?

Read my arguments I address the seals to other people so quote me them and counter it

 

[Beans2]

Team 2 win it

 

[ARGUS]

Is there evidence that Naruto can defy the effects of Shadow Clone? All Shadow Clone starts out as duplicates of the original casters, until proven.

Whhat are you talking about, i just stated that he creates many clones, (doesnt matter what type), and fires off multiple FRS, rasengan barrages, or Mini-TBB,
and

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so yes he can create SM or KCM or BM/BSM or Base KB whilst hes in BSM/BM

2 Mokuton users aren't useless in this match up as you think they are. Its how the casters will use them that will be effective too (which I will go over later just want to address your points).

Kabuto has got zero mokuton feats, and edo madaras mokutons arent strong enough to restrain the father son duo as well,
so they really arent doing much

If Manda 2 is out it will be effective by stopping the onslaught of shadow clone barrages, since its body should be able to handle a portion of it before it goes down, since snakes have naterally shown to have the toughies Hide in the series. Even then swiping around its body will make all the clones in range go poof. As me using the Juubi's tail as visual example[

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] since they go down by direct hits. Once TBB are being use for projectile, Madara can coat Manda with PS so he isn't going to get finish off quickly then you think, since you think it isn't going to leave him to dust. Manda will further increase PS mobility to that it lacks.

Manda 2 is utmost fodder here, its size is far too large to hide from the duo, and its not tanking any more than 2 TBB,
especially seeing how the

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means that manda gets nuked off the planet,

Wrapping madara in PS is not doing much either, since the father son duo have more than enough firepower to bust PS,
narutos SM infused TBB barrages would wreck PS, and minato firing off his TBB as well simply enhances the efffect, and manda 2 really doesnt add anything in firepower at all, mobility is good and all, but manda is still slower than the kurama avatar, and with FTG on the agenda, they can land their TBB right towards manda or PS thanks to the S/T barrier or they can sync their attacks with FTG

Manda ''easily'' poofing the clones is also not happenning since the clones have more than enough speed to evade all his attacks, and with them firing off COFRS and FRS, means that manda gets overwhelmed,
OR one of naruto or minato goes off to kill kabuto whilst the other fights madara,
and if madara resorts to using his PS against the other one, then manda can even die in the cross fire,

Your combo would not be effective since it requires FTG markings, to which Kabuto could use Mandara no Jin to scatter them around to eat any markings. Do note, according to your premise, if Minato were to go down that means that match would be over in mere secs since he marked Naruto and a brainwash Minato would make use for that for Team 1 too.

FTG isnt really needed, markings are not the only way for minato to use FTG, since he just needs the chakra linnk,
yeah and Kabuto forming mandara no jin, whilst the father son duo just stand there,
they would only need one TBB and all the snakes inluding kabuto are gone,

kabuto getts killed within seconds,

Assuming he would when Kabuto along with Madara's, has many defence to keep himself in this fight with his team.
For them to charge a quality TBB would require them to stand in that position. Both Kabuto and Madara can take advantage of their position and spawn Mokuton underneath them like what happen to Bee[

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]. Since Kabuto is having Hashirama w/ Sōma no Kō, Kabuto can support further by doing his own justu while his twin does Mokuton. With that he can perfrom Muki Tensei and disblance Kurama's footing. That on top of Mokuton is guaranteed to catch them.

In case, and depending on which TBB is being used, Jukai is able to change its trajectory of a TBB according to Hashirama[

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].

I think you are underestimating the speed of TBB formation,

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, as these TBB wreck all the mokutons,
unless you think that kabuto and madara can use the mokutons and restrain him before the TBB are even fired,
or unless you think that muki tensei is much faster than TBB.. in which case yu would be wrong,

and good luck to jukai kotan redirecting multiple TBB, or TBB that can even dwarf PS, Lol
not to mention that kabuto has ZERO mokuton feats, and him having hashiramas cells doesnt mean that he could use his jutsu anywhere near on a scale as high as hashirama,
yamato, danzo and white zetsu are prime examples of my point,

and lastly mokutons are not catching multiple targets at once, and not to mention that father son duo can fire off barrages

Last time I remember Mokuryu focus Naruto to eject out of Kurama. Kabuto will also further support using Mokuton by using Hashirama's cells to make them even more dangerous.

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,
as all of Madaras mokuton constructs get eradicated by naruto and minato,

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which are weaker than what minato and naruto could form,
and none of madaras mokuton constrcuts are sufficient enough to either damage or restrina the duo,
and his PS certainly isnt beating 2 kuramas

 

[V h o]

Can team 2 stop a PS? Also is edo tensei restricted?

Either way team 1 med-high difficulty.

 

[QdonEms]

Naruto and Minato........get shitted on. Madara could probably solo both.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Whhat are you talking about, i just stated that he creates many clones, (doesnt matter what type), and fires off multiple FRS, rasengan barrages, or Mini-TBB,
and

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so yes he can create SM or KCM or BM/BSM or Base KB whilst hes in BSM/BM

Aw, Ok. Just forgot

Kabuto has got zero mokuton feats, and edo madaras mokutons arent strong enough to restrain the father son duo as well,
so they really arent doing much

@Bold you didn't read the OP conditions as I said he has access to all feats of the cells he has gain inside of him. With that said I will not ignore that Kabuto has partial intel of Hashirama's ability as he admitted to Madara that he doesn't know both of their primes. So with the conditions he is limited to the Mokuton he has witness. I made sure the conditions was as clear as possible to enable Kabuto to thoroughly use Hashirama's cells as effectively as he did with Sound 5 and Orochimaru. His chakra capacity should enable him to do at least Base Hashirama Mokuton too, due to Senjutsu chakra boost along with it.


Madara already showed that Mokuton was enough to restrain BM Naruto + Bee, so Mokuton is still perfect to make Team 2 vulnerable adding the fact Kabuto has access to Hashirama's cells.

Manda 2 is utmost fodder here, its size is far too large to hide from the duo, and its not tanking any more than 2 TBB,
especially seeing how the

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means that manda gets nuked off the planet,

My premise was using Manda 2 for a different encounter. Basically summoning Manda 2 only for dealing with clone barrages thats all. In situation with TBB is ready to be use PS coat comes in play.

Wrapping madara in PS is not doing much either, since the father son duo have more than enough firepower to bust PS,
narutos SM infused TBB barrages would wreck PS, and minato firing off his TBB as well simply enhances the efffect,

Busting it is one thing but adding mobility changes alot of things too. As Madara and Kabuto can predict that bomb coming at them. Madara can use PS shockwave to defuse the TBB early before it reaches him or at least MOST of the them.

Kabuto Sage senses can command Manda 2 to react[

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].

With this combo the can take less damage then they would normally would.

and manda 2 really doesnt add anything in firepower at all, mobility is good and all, but manda is still slower than the kurama avatar, and with FTG on the agenda, they can land their TBB right towards manda or PS thanks to the S/T barrier or they can sync their attacks with FTG

Stop right there Manda 2 is not slower then Kurama until proven (discard this if you not talking about BM). PS slashes is still enough to damage Kurama so not adding more firepower is isn't needed.

Kabuto can take precautions with FTG as I mention eariler. If Minato is setting them up Kabuto sets up his snakes too.

Manda ''easily'' poofing the clones is also not happenning since the clones have more than enough speed to evade all his attacks, and with them firing off COFRS and FRS, means that manda gets overwhelmed,
OR one of naruto or minato goes off to kill kabuto whilst the other fights madara,
and if madara resorts to using his PS against the other one, then manda can even die in the cross fire,

Again my premise were concerning if they all attack and come forward for barrages attacks. There is no cross fire as they will use their defenses to help each other out.

FTG isnt really needed, markings are not the only way for minato to use FTG, since he just needs the chakra linnk,
yeah and Kabuto forming mandara no jin, whilst the father son duo just stand there,
they would only need one TBB and all the snakes inluding kabuto are gone

kabuto getts killed within seconds,

No Kabuto can form it while father is setting up markings. I am not going to argue that Team 1 is going to stand there when Minato sets up markings as if you were to argue Kabuto setting up summonings. Plus you are assuming the Kabuto would be in the same location of the TBB nuking the snakes which is completely wrong.

I think you are underestimating the speed of TBB formation,

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, as these TBB wreck all the mokutons,
unless you think that kabuto and madara can use the mokutons and restrain him before the TBB are even fired,
or unless you think that muki tensei is much faster than TBB.. in which case yu would be wrong,

I just post a scan disprove Mokuton underneath is much faster then a charge TBB so yes you are wrong. EVERY TBB encounter,characters has shown to interpret its launch which further debunks your point of TBB speed.

SM sense> TBB charge
Mokuton > TBB charge

and good luck to jukai kotan redirecting multiple TBB, or TBB that can even dwarf PS, Lol
not to mention that kabuto has ZERO mokuton feats, and him having hashiramas cells doesnt mean that he could use his jutsu anywhere near on a scale as high as hashirama,
yamato, danzo and white zetsu are prime examples of my point,

It doesn't need luck as any TBB being charged with good quality gets interrupted.

In fact another thing Madara can do is force them to fire at the meteors or else they die.

I address Kabuto and Mokuton already. And using those examples are terrible since Kabuto is the reason Danzo needing him to enhance the cells and what made Madara himself to be able to perform that level of Mokuton.

and lastly mokutons are not catching multiple targets at once, and not to mention that father son duo can fire off barrages

Its ironic that you can reason that Minato can do continuous TBB w/ no feats shown but can't reason of Kabuto enabling to break down cells thats not his into his stomach to fight for him. Especially when he is the reason a character was able to gain Mokuton feats through him.

Anyway you can be right able multiple tbb. But it still lowers damage to what it can get out. Muki Tensei still change shift the earth plates which would work much better as it is directly connected to Kurama's footing.

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,
as all of Madaras mokuton constructs get eradicated by naruto and minato,

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which are weaker than what minato and naruto could form,
and none of madaras mokuton constrcuts are sufficient enough to either damage or restrina the duo,
and his PS certainly isnt beating 2 kuramas[/FONT]

Your 1st scan supported my claim, as Mokuryu won and Naruto body flicker out. So I have no idea what you are talking about.

Double Mokuton would be very versatile as one can use wood dragon (madara) and the other can use FTW (since Kabuto knows and witness this Mokuton) to put them to sleep. Or Jukai on top of FTW, etc.

 

[lanakui8]

Lol wrong. It stops him from using Kurama's chakra not specific certain modes (even messing with Naruto's chakra flow too). The Fuinjutsu works by using a odd number seal to disrupt the even number seal, when adding it on top of it. Kishimoto explained this. So it has nothing to do with power level.

By what logic does it have nothing to do with powerlevel? Kishi simply explained how the seal works, that has absolutely nothing to do with that seal working on anyone. Thatʻs like saying "because kishi says a katon burns its target, katons will burn ANY target". so no, until you show that itʻs capable of working on something above KN0 kid narutoʻs chakra, then you have no grounds for making the claim that it works conditionlessly.

It isnt hacks its a fuinjutsu that disrupts specific fuinjutsu, nothing else. Whats wrong with that logic. Konohomaru w/ a kunai is a threat to Madara's life since Tobirama proved that Madara needed to dodge a Kunai strike lol.

Yep, itʻs a fuinjutsu thatʻs mechanics are disrupting the chakra coming out of other fuinjutsu, nothing about the level at which that fuinjutsu works or chakra quantity etc.
So you believe that Konohomaru vs Madara is a legitimate matchup because konohomaru can kill madara with a kunai? If not, then why bring up kabutoʻs ability to do this to Naruto or Minato if heʻs not going to be able to do it?

I felt the need to be a smartass here when you are basically making a comparison of Kabuto to Minato and Naruto as to Madara to konohomaru.

The comparison is completely legitimate. Youʻre saying that Kabuto is somehow a major factor against Minato or Naruto simply because he has something that you believe can stop their seal if he lands it on them. Why is that any different from Konohomaru vs Madara? Konohomaru can actually KILL madara with something in his arsenal, so by your logic Konohomaru would be a major factor in a fight against madara.

Logically Minato should be able to do something about the seal but Naruto being superior? Laughable at best. The only fuinjutsu he learn was the a prekey seal Minato gave him. Thats not learning fuinjutsu at all.

Naruto surpassed minato in fuinjutsu when he created a new and more powerful seal in the chapter titled "a new seal". Not only that, but Naruto was taught by jiraya over the course of 2.5 years and Naruto being an uzumaki has a natural affinity for seals. So no, literally ALL the evidence says Naruto is better than minato and jiraiya at seals, and would easily remove the seal if Kabuto magically landed this fictional seal with unlimited power.

So in the end if the premise were to succeed, Madara and Kabuto aren't going to stand there and make them unseal it, thats unrealistic for them to wait, especially against a sealing master like Minato .

They wouldnʻt have time to do anything, jiraiya easily dealt with that seal, minato has FTG which means he doesnʻt get tagged by anything if heʻs playing on the defensive.

But thatʻs a completely moot point as youʻve given no logical argument as to why a seal thatʻs best feat is sealing KN0 Narutoʻs chakra is going to seal bijuu mode naruto or Minatoʻs chakra. So nope.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

By what logic does it have nothing to do with powerlevel? Kishi simply explained how the seal works, that has absolutely nothing to do with that seal working on anyone. Thatʻs like saying "because kishi says a katon burns its target, katons will burn ANY target". so no, until you show that itʻs capable of working on something above KN0 kid narutoʻs chakra, then you have no grounds for making the claim that it works conditionlessly.

The logic of aiming at the seal which mix both Naruto and Kuramas chakra. Except I didn't make any other claims on working on everything but an even number seal. Except me proving what chakra level is irrelevant to what the seal does to the seal. So I don't need to make any other claims to what I already address.

Yep, itʻs a fuinjutsu thatʻs mechanics are disrupting the chakra coming out of other fuinjutsu, nothing about the level at which that fuinjutsu works or chakra quantity etc.
So you believe that Konohomaru vs Madara is a legitimate matchup because konohomaru can kill madara with a kunai? If not, then why bring up kabutoʻs ability to do this to Naruto or Minato if heʻs not going to be able to do it?

What other prove do I need other then the fact it work on Kurama's chakra already? So quality is if irrelevant to me period.

No that was obviously sarcasm if you continue reading as you didn't need to make a separate quote for it, as your logic isn't not one bit the right comparison to make.

The comparison is completely legitimate. Youʻre saying that Kabuto is somehow a major factor against Minato or Naruto simply because he has something that you believe can stop their seal if he lands it on them. Why is that any different from Konohomaru vs Madara? Konohomaru can actually KILL madara with something in his arsenal, so by your logic Konohomaru would be a major factor in a fight against madara.

No I addressed more then one thing that makes Kabuto a factor in this match up but you decided to pick on the sealing argument specifically.

Naruto surpassed minato in fuinjutsu when he created a new and more powerful seal in the chapter titled "a new seal". Not only that, but Naruto was taught by jiraya over the course of 2.5 years and Naruto being an uzumaki has a natural affinity for seals. So no, literally ALL the evidence says Naruto is better than minato and jiraiya at seals, and would easily remove the seal if Kabuto magically landed this fictional seal with unlimited power.

No the "new power seal" is Minato's key in order to tame and control Kurama he didn't create it as it came with the seal[

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to

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].

Naruto wasn't taught crap unless you forgot the whole chapter 490[

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] of the toad breaking down how to do it and the fact mentioning Jiraya's FAILURE in training him.

Your term of the seal =/= the description of what I explain the seals capability. Exaggerating my claims isn't helping you prove me wrong at all.

They wouldnʻt have time to do anything, jiraiya easily dealt with that seal, minato has FTG which means he doesnʻt get tagged by anything if heʻs playing on the defensive.

I made a premise of dealing with dealing with FTG by using snakes to eat them all. Then I would have to make a premise of Team 1 getting pass Kurama to breach the seal, which I didn't go to further depth yet.

But thatʻs a completely moot point as youʻve given no logical argument as to why a seal thatʻs best feat is sealing KN0 Narutoʻs chakra is going to seal bijuu mode naruto or Minatoʻs chakra. So nope.

Thats because you don't understand how it works as you keep mentioning the same misconception. The seal works by targeting the seal itself. The seal is exposed in KCM so I never said anything about BM.

Unless you can prove that the seal Naruto isn't using is not 4 or even number level seal then you can see me concede otherwise I would wait for yours.

 

[lanakui8]

The logic of aiming at the seal which mix both Naruto and Kuramas chakra. Except I didn't make any other claims on working on everything but an even number seal. Except me proving what chakra level is irrelevant to what the seal does to the seal. So I don't need to make any other claims to what I already address.

Aiming at the seal which mixes both Narutoʻs and kuramaʻs chakra has nothing to do with the ability to do something about that seal, all it tells us is how the 5 element seal works.
Doesnʻt matter if you didnʻt make other claims, you believe that regardless of how much chakra or how powerful the seal, the 5 element seal will completely stop and disrupt all chakra, yet nothing implies that, itʻs simply an explanation about how the 5 element seal works not the extend to which it works.
You absolutely did not prove that chakra levels are irrelevant. You gave an explanation about the mechanics of how the 5 element seal works and extrapolated that explanation to infinity, assuming without reason that it works regardless of the factors it has to deal with.

What other prove do I need other then the fact it work on Kurama's chakra already? So quality is if irrelevant to me period.

Well then thatʻs a concession on your part since working on KN0ʻs worth of kuramaʻs chakra has absolutely noting to do with working on Kuramaʻs full chakra or bijuu mode.

No that was obviously sarcasm if you continue reading as you didn't need to make a separate quote for it, as your logic isn't not one bit the right comparison to make.

I know you meant it as sarcasm, but Iʻm showing how your arguments still lead you to the conclusion that konohomaru would be a major factor against Madara.

No the "new power seal" is Minato's key in order to tame and control Kurama he didn't create it as it came with the seal[

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to

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].

The new seal is absolutely not Minatoʻs key, as a key by itself does not have the power to create a seal all it can do is open or close an old seal. Naruto created the new seal, a seal that is far greater than Minatoʻs greatest seal, Naruto has surpassed Minato in fuinjutsu.

Naruto wasn't taught crap unless you forgot the whole chapter 490[

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] of the toad breaking down how to do it and the fact mentioning Jiraya's FAILURE in training him.

How in the world does Jiraiya not telling Naruto about how to chakra tug the ninetails = Jiraiya didnʻt teach naruto any fuinjutsu?

Your term of the seal =/= the description of what I explain the seals capability. Exaggerating my claims isn't helping you prove me wrong at all.

You donʻt explain the sealʻs capability, you explain the mechanics of the seal and then extrapolate those mechanics to infinity claiming that because itʻs stated to work this way, it works REGARDLESS of the strength of the seal, the chakra its trying to disrupt etc which is absolutely not true. The databook throws around tons of no limits statements, yet it STILL neglects to give your seal no limits. By your logic, if the databook states that a katon burns its target to ashes, then it burns the target to ashes no matter what the target is. Your logic is even worse than people who claim a 50% FRS would kill any character in the manga because the databook states ʻno one can survive itʻ.

I made a premise of dealing with dealing with FTG by using snakes to eat them all. Then I would have to make a premise of Team 1 getting pass Kurama to breach the seal, which I didn't go to further depth yet.

Minato and his clones have the ability to place FTG tags, and with the nuking going on in this fight, snakes arenʻt going to even be on the battlefield.

Thats because you don't understand how it works as you keep mentioning the same misconception. The seal works by targeting the seal itself. The seal is exposed in KCM so I never said anything about BM.

Why does targeting the seal mean anything?

Unless you can prove that the seal Naruto isn't using is not 4 or even number level seal then you can see me concede otherwise I would wait for yours.

Nope, the burden of proof is on you to show that your seal works without limits. Failure to do so would be you conceding this argument as your entire argument is based on that point.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Aiming at the seal which mixes both Narutoʻs and kuramaʻs chakra has nothing to do with the ability to do something about that seal, all it tells us is how the 5 element seal works.
Doesnʻt matter if you didnʻt make other claims, you believe that regardless of how much chakra or how powerful the seal, the 5 element seal will completely stop and disrupt all chakra, yet nothing implies that, itʻs simply an explanation about how the 5 element seal works not the extend to which it works.
You absolutely did not prove that chakra levels are irrelevant. You gave an explanation about the mechanics of how the 5 element seal works and extrapolated that explanation to infinity, assuming without reason that it works regardless of the factors it has to deal with.

@Bold your not even making any sense and it sounds completely contradicting to what I am trying to comprehend of your statement.
5 element seals that blocks the effects of a 4 element seal doesn't mean the 4 element seal cannot be blocked by a 5 element seal?

@Underline so because you dont care of my premise to interpret it correctly you want to put words in my mouth to the point that the exaggeration even contradicts the manga?

No context of power level in the manga means no relevant of how the jutsu is effective. Jiraya's words is all I need to know 5 element seal will always be effective to a 4 element seal[

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]

Well then thatʻs a concession on your part since working on KN0ʻs worth of kuramaʻs chakra has absolutely noting to do with working on Kuramaʻs full chakra or bijuu mode.

No it isn't as my premise show that Kurama's level is irreverent since his power comes from the link (the seal) to mix with Naruto's. so if the link is disrupted there is no link to give him how much power he needs

I know you meant it as sarcasm, but Iʻm showing how your arguments still lead you to the conclusion that konohomaru would be a major factor against Madara.

Sure so let me make the same "logical argument." Konohomaru can be a factor by the Sage of Six Paths himself giving him the power so his Kunai can effectively defeat Madara with the help of every single person that has been Edo Tensei.

I guess he would be a major factor.

The new seal is absolutely not Minatoʻs key, as a key by itself does not have the power to create a seal all it can do is open or close an old seal.

Except I already post this scan

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proving that wrong.

How in the world does Jiraiya not telling Naruto about how to chakra tug the ninetails = Jiraiya didnʻt teach naruto any fuinjutsu?

Oh I am sorry. Please share with the the fuinjutsu that Jiraya taught him.

You donʻt explain the sealʻs capability, you explain the mechanics of the seal and then extrapolate those mechanics to infinity claiming that because itʻs stated to work this way, it works REGARDLESS of the strength of the seal, the chakra its trying to disrupt etc which is absolutely not true. The databook throws around tons of no limits statements, yet it STILL neglects to give your seal no limits. By your logic, if the databook states that a katon burns its target to ashes, then it burns the target to ashes no matter what the target is. Your logic is even worse than people who claim a 50% FRS would kill any character in the manga because the databook states ʻno one can survive itʻ.

The Seal working on a 4 element seal isn't an infinity claim. My statement only explain it working on Four elephant and never mention it working on anything stronger then Four elephant as the manga showed it worked on it already.

Minato and his clones have the ability to place FTG tags, and with the nuking going on in this fight, snakes arenʻt going to even be on the battlefield.

Your right they are going to be where FTG tags are going. Minato can nuke himself or split his portions to fight Team 1 with a percentage of his power.

Why does targeting the seal mean anything?

Since its the only place that 5 element seal can work.

Nope, the burden of proof is on you to show that your seal works without limits. Failure to do so would be you conceding this argument as your entire argument is based on that point.

Except I didn't make it limitless I made it work exactly how it worked in the manga. Unless you believe Naruto no longer is holding the same seal number.

 

[ARGUS]

Aw, Ok. Just forgot
@Bold you didn't read the OP conditions as I said he has access to all feats of the cells he has gain inside of him. With that said I will not ignore that Kabuto has partial intel of Hashirama's ability as he admitted to Madara that he doesn't know both of their primes. So with the conditions he is limited to the Mokuton he has witness. I made sure the conditions was as clear as possible to enable Kabuto to thoroughly use Hashirama's cells as effectively as he did with Sound 5 and Orochimaru. His chakra capacity should enable him to do at least Base Hashirama Mokuton too, due to Senjutsu chakra boost along with it.

@Bold - so based on what kabuto has seen, the best mokutons he could use are jukai kotan or FTW, as stated by ur conditions as well, and my point still stands as these two mokutons are not doing shit, neither are madaras mokutons doing anything

1.

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, here it gets eradicated by a Single TBB,

2. FTW pollen gets eradicated by a TBB, or a COFRS with ease,

3.

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, as both the father son duo counter the jutsu just this time rather easily, thanks to the intel, , or the

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just how it did in canon

In Conclusion: Their mokutons are not doing shit,

Madara already showed that Mokuton was enough to restrain BM Naruto + Bee, so Mokuton is still perfect to make Team 2 vulnerable adding the fact Kabuto has access to Hashirama's cells.

Most of its already countered above, but the fact that it was even remotely effective was because Naruto had no intel on the mokuryu, and just attempted to attack it head on, however he still managed to counter it, by changing his form, or naruto/minato can simply fire a single TBB to destroy the wood dragon,

the mokutons that madara has shown and the mokutons that kabuto has witnessed which are allowed ITT, are non factor
furthermore with Minato having FTG here, as well as his chakra being linked with narutos, (who also has clones in the battleifield) he can simply use FTG to immediately get out of any mokutons that might be restraining him, by swapping with a clone,
so even that is a relevant counter,

My premise was using Manda 2 for a different encounter. Basically summoning Manda 2 only for dealing with clone barrages thats all. In situation with TBB is ready to be use PS coat comes in play.

Even then manda 2 gets wrecked,
COFRS alone would damage it to a huge extent, along with Minato landing a TBB to eradicate it, or naruto firing off rasengan barrages of FRS means that it gets wrecked,
i dont see how PS coating manda would help here???
their offense is no where near the 2 kurama avatars that are present here, and their mobility also still isnt as high as the 2 kyuubi, where one of them is an FTG user

Busting it is one thing but adding mobility changes alot of things too. As Madara and Kabuto can predict that bomb coming at them. Madara can use PS shockwave to defuse the TBB early before it reaches him or at least MOST of the them.

Yeah, its not happening,
first of all, Manda 2 is not as mobile as Naruto and Minato, especaially when both of them have insane speeds, as well as the fact that they also have FTG
secondly PS shockwave, defusing a bomb??? what good would that do, since that will most likely affect madaara more, or simply allow naruto or minato to fire off more TBB barrages, and when infused with SM, it simply means that PS gets wrecked with ease,

Kabuto Sage senses can command Manda 2 to react[

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].

Yeah, good luck to manda 2 travelling as fast as that, not to mention that kabuto is encoated within the snakes, and the fact that TBB are huge to begin with, and manda2 is simply too big of a target for them to miss,
its not happening

With this combo the can take less damage then they would normally would.

PS and Manda2 get wrecked, they both have no where near the DC to compete against the 2 kyuubi
and their durability as a whole is also lower,

Kabuto can take precautions with FTG as I mention eariler. If Minato is setting them up Kabuto sets up his snakes too.

Minato doesnt need his markings,

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, and simply forms a link with narutos chakra (like he did against juubito), and can use it to swap places with any of the surrounding clones, through hiraishin
how is kabuto using snakes any good of a precaution for FTG????
the snakes just get killed in the crossifre between PS, and Kurama, or even manda2

Again my premise were concerning if they all attack and come forward for barrages attacks. There is no cross fire as they will use their defenses to help each other out.

And their defenses are no where near sufficient enough to prevent them from narutos and minatos firepower

No Kabuto can form it while father is setting up markings. I am not going to argue that Team 1 is going to stand there when Minato sets up markings as if you were to argue Kabuto setting up summonings. Plus you are assuming the Kabuto would be in the same location of the TBB nuking the snakes which is completely wrong.

I never said that minato sets up his markings so i dont see why you bring that up,
like above, minato simply doesnt need his markings, he can teleport to anything that his chakra forms a link with,
and

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, and obviously link with his or his sons clones thereby enabling him to use FTG

I just post a scan disprove Mokuton underneath is much faster then a charge TBB so yes you are wrong. EVERY TBB encounter,characters has shown to interpret its launch which further debunks your point of TBB speed.
SM sense> TBB charge
Mokuton > TBB charge

Their mokutons get countered or eradicated with utmost ease, i have already debunked ur claim on that
not to mention that Naruto is also a SM user here, meaning that he could also sense,
and jutsus such as jukai kotan and mokuryu also require some time

It doesn't need luck as any TBB being charged with good quality gets interrupted.

With what????
jukai kotan Lol, FTW Lol, Mokuryu Lol, Manda2 Lol,
please, and for the record, there are 2 kuramas here,
one can stall whilst the other forms the TBB and lands them right on their ass

In fact another thing Madara can do is force them to fire at the meteors or else they die.

You mean 2 meteors, Lol
they get wrecked by TBB barrages, especially when gaara and onoki managed to stop one, and survive the other, not to mention that because of that, kabuto would just die,
furthermore the

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, what makes you think that Tengai shinsei is of any relevance whatsoever

Its ironic that you can reason that Minato can do continuous TBB w/ no feats shown but can't reason of Kabuto enabling to break down cells thats not his into his stomach to fight for him. Especially when he is the reason a character was able to gain Mokuton feats through him.

Its because minato has the exact other half of the kyuubi within him,

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,
and the exact same kyuubi that can form TBB just like narutos
kabuto on the other hand, has NO feats of mokuton, but i will allow it for this thread,
having hashiramas DNA doesnt mean that you can use his jutsus to his extent,
yamato, and white zetsu are prime examples of what i mean

Anyway you can be right able multiple tbb. But it still lowers damage to what it can get out. Muki Tensei still change shift the earth plates which would work much better as it is directly connected to Kurama's footing.

Muki tensei is not countering TBB coming from multiple directions, or continous TBB that will eradicate any barrier in its paths
minato can also coordinate both of their TBB through FTG and land them at a location closest to them, which isnt really hard, if they have their clones around, or minato can also use the S/T barrier to do this

Your 1st scan supported my claim, as Mokuryu won and Naruto body flicker out. So I have no idea what you are talking about.

Lol Naruto countered the mokuryu, and i have already countered most of this above,

Double Mokuton would be very versatile as one can use wood dragon (madara) and the other can use FTW (since Kabuto knows and witness this Mokuton) to put them to sleep. Or Jukai on top of FTW, etc.

None of their mokutons would stand much of a chance agaisnt the father/sons fiirepower,
Flower Tree world is a joke, FRS variants alone can be used, or a single TBB can be used to eradiicate the pollen and turn the jutsu into paste, mokuryu was also canonically destroyed by a TBB,
Kabuto gets wrecked by either of the 2 with ease, especially when he lakcs a way of hurting them, and madara then gets overwhelmed and nuked off the planet through multiple TBB

 

[Blackdeath667]

team 1 lol