Edo Itachi(TRE) Vs SM Naruto(Kratos)

TRE MERCER

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Starting Distance: 30m
Intel: Full
Intent: To Kill
Mindset: OOC
Restrictions- Regeneration,Unlimited chakra,Kurama chakra and help. Sound genjutsu.
Conditions- Naruto is healty. This is War arc SM Naruto.
Location- Naruto vs Pain.

--Kratos(I) will make the first post
--Each poster will get to post 3 times
--We need 3 judges

Judge 1- Demonic
Judge 2- Unorthodox
Judge 3-
 
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Lord Tywin

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Alright folks, I'm about to give this guy Naruto's paper dick to ride on, because he's had enough of KG's. It's sickening TBH
Imma start by countering everything in Itachi's arsenal.

Genjutsu

Tsukoyomi and other techniques
Tsukoyomi is one of Itachi's strongest techniques. I would agree that if Naruto is caught, it would be an instant KO. However Naruto has multiple ways of dealing with Itachi's genjutsu
1. By simply closing his eyes, Naruto would shut down any and all attempts from Itachi in using genjutsu. Now you might say that Naruto isn't as good as Kabut when it comes to fighting with his eyes closed, but Naruto has been in similar situations
The pitch black of a toad's mouth

Inside of a bijuu's throat

Naruto would have no problem fighting with his eyes closed
2. By having clones all over the battlefield. A canon counter to Tsukoyomi. All other genjutsus would fail against clones as well.
3. By summoning Ma, and having her set up Dust cloud technique. It is a senpou technique, meaning it contains senjutsu, which would make Itachi to not see Naruto in the cloud of dust. I will elaborate on this later, as it's a great technique for Naruto to use in this battle

Naruto can counter any genjutsu in Itachi's arsenal like this.
Izanami shouldn't even be brought here, as it doesn't even work on Naruto.

Taijutsu

Now this is where both opponents are neck and neck. Itachi for his evasive skills, and Naruto for his usage of Frog kata.
In a cqc, Naruto's usage of Frog Kata would be Itachi's downfall. Not only one hit would kill Itachi, Itachi has no way of seeing the energy Naruto uses for frog kata.

Itachi has to be trained in using senjutsu to sense frog kata, which he isn't

Itachi couldn't see Kabuto in the cave all augmented with senjutsu chakra, seeing only the snakes

Same is with Naruto's frog Kata, as it is senjutsu. As I previously said, Dust cloud technique is also a senpou, containing senjutsu. Itachi won't be able to see Naruto in the dust cloud either, if Naruto decides to engage Itachi in the cloud.
Itachi's speed is no problem either in cqc. Itachi was matching KCM Naruto, which by fact, is an inferior mode in cqc and danger sensing

Kabut also had no problem dealing with Itachi in cqc, which he was only caught because he forgot he had grown horns.

Shurikenjutsu is also easily countered by Naruto's far superior number in clones. No matter what Itachi does, he can't outmatch Naruto's sheer shuriken and knife quantity, used by clones, with himself and clones. If Itachi tries to use knives and shurikens, he'd face an insurmountable number of shurikens used by Naruto and his clone. Itachi needs to use susanoo to avoid all the shurikens from Naruto

Crow clones aren't even a factor since Itachi doesn't have anyone here distracting Naruto, with Naruto's full attention towards Itachi. The location is a destroyed Leaf village, so Itachi has no place to hide and create crow clones

Ninjutsu

Itachi's small Water release is easily countered by Ma's senjutsu enhanced fire release. Pa can add his wind release to even make it easier to counter water release

Itachi's fire release is also countered by Pa's water release. Ma can add wind to strengthen it out even more.

Amaterasu is a tricky technique to counter. But Naruto has couple of ways to counter it.
By having a large number of clones on the battlefield. Itachi would eat through his chakra fast trying to get every single Naruto clone. Also the fact that Naruto can keep spamming clones, if all the clones are destroyed. Itachi can't use Amaterasu not even nearly close to Naruto's clone spam fest. Not when Itachi has to use susanoo if he's trying to finish Naruto. Itachi can't distinguish between clones either, so no chance of him trying to snipe Naruto.

I will refrain from using the other method I was using on the other thread, as Naruto using clones is a safer way

Susanoo
Itachi's greatest weapon is susanoo. But only after v2 is that it provides a challenge to Naruto
Ribcage and V2 susanoo aren't that much of threat to Naruto, as they lack offensive power to hurt Naruto
Best feat is killing Danzo, who isn't nearly as strong or durable as SM Naruto. Magtamas are easily dodged by a simple body turn, like how Naruto easily dodged V1 Raikage. Susanoo sword in v2 isn't a problem either, as it doesn't have the range to get Naruto, when Naruto decides to keep his distance. These two versions are destroyed by a frs or two that can cut mountains.
V3 is the same as v2, but with more protection. A spam of giant rasengans and a couple more frs can take it out.
Complete susanoo is where the most problem comes from. It has a superb defense, and offense, but they are all countered.
Yata mirror is countered by Ma using Dust cloud. As I explained earlier, Itachi can't see Naruto in it, so Naruto is left free to come from behind, and attack it from there. Itachi is unaware of Naruto's location, so his attempt of using Yata to protect himself is futile, as Naruto attacks the location unprotected by Yata mirror.
Totsuka is dangerous, but it lacks feats that let Itachi to actually strike Naruto with it. Only times totsuka got its targets were the times the opponents had no idea about totsuka. Orochimaru wasn't even worried about the would totsuka gave him. He even called it a little wound. Nagato was also distracted by CT's ruins, and was blindsided. One more thing is that Itachi can't pierce what he can't see. With the dust cloud destroying his vision, Itachi wouldn't even try to use totsuka.


Strategy
Immediately after the fight starts Naruto creates a huge number of clones to avoid getting one shotted by Tsukoyomi or Amaterasu. He then would summon Ma and Pa to aid him in battle. Naruto would also send 3 or 4 clones in location far from the battlefield to gather senjutsu, letting Naruto to have access to more Senjutsu chakra. By this time Naruto and his clones would all start throwing shurikens and knives towards Itachi, and letting the 4 clones get off the battlefield. Naruto would stall for a bit, and let his 4 clones to go gather, and balance the senjutsu gathered. Then Naruto would tell Ma to use dust cloud, and then he'd release his clones on the field. If Naruto felt like the dust cloud is getting dispersed, he'd ask Ma to use it again, beginning the cycle anew. With this Itachi's Usage of Amaterasu and genjutsu are rendered futile. By now Itachi has to keep up higher versions of Susanoo, or he'd get immediately obliterated by frs. FRS also doesn't disperse the dust cloud, just like it didn't disperse the smoke bomb's smoke

Once again, Itachi can't even see the senjutsu rasenshuriken, as the dust cloud is all senjutsu. Itachi can't see through senjutsu, as shown in his fight with Kabuto. Couldn't see Kabuto's chakra, even though it had chakra from multiple other people in him.
Everything Naruto will do in this battle after making sure 4 of his clones are off the field will happen inside the dust cloud.

This is my first post. INB4 Mercer misinterpreting everything.

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Beans2

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Edo Itachi=KCM Naruto
Healthy Itachi>=War Arc SM Naruto
Sick Itachi>=Pain Arc Naruto

IMO this matchup is very unbalanced
 

TRE MERCER

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Opener will be up in 30mins that's how long it will take. Weak and moot points as expected but let's get this poppin.

EZQ is judge #1.
 

TRE MERCER

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Genjutsu
Tsukoyomi and other techniques
Tsukoyomi is one of Itachi's strongest techniques. I would agree that if Naruto is caught, it would be an instant KO. However Naruto has multiple ways of dealing with Itachi's genjutsu
1. By simply closing his eyes, Naruto would shut down any and all attempts from Itachi in using genjutsu. Now you might say that Naruto isn't as good as Kabut when it comes to fighting with his eyes closed, but Naruto has been in similar situations
The pitch black of a toad's mouth

Inside of a bijuu's throat

Naruto would have no problem fighting with his eyes closed
2. By having clones all over the battlefield. A canon counter to Tsukoyomi. All other genjutsus would fail against clones as well.
3. By summoning Ma, and having her set up Dust cloud technique. It is a senpou technique, meaning it contains senjutsu, which would make Itachi to not see Naruto in the cloud of dust. I will elaborate on this later, as it's a great technique for Naruto to use in this battle

Naruto can counter any genjutsu in Itachi's arsenal like this.
Izanami shouldn't even be brought here, as it doesn't even work on Naruto.
First i want to point out why your main line of offence(Closing his eyes while fighting) Is a piss poor idea and strategy altogether. Those are both times where Naruto didn't have to worry about projectiles being thrown at him or Amaterasu being used up against him. Kabuto whose shown better speed feats than SM Naruto couldn't dodge Susanoo projectiles[ ]-[ . So good luck on Naruto trying to replicate what Kabuto did against the Uchiha's without the speed and benefits to have a body that can regenerate and take damage. Clones are a counter for genjutsu that part you did get right. Pa and Ma are caught in genjutsu simple. Don't bring up there piss poor sensing since they let Ashura path sneak up and nab Jiraiya's arm right from him[ ]. So there easily caught in genjutsu. Dust cloud won't work. SM Naruto still has his own chakra signature which means Itachi will be able to still tell the difference in his Senjutsu and Ma senjutsu.(Senjutsu is nothing but the users chakra mixed with Nature energy to make a balance)





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Taijutsu
Now this is where both opponents are neck and neck. Itachi for his evasive skills, and Naruto for his usage of Frog kata.
In a cqc, Naruto's usage of Frog Kata would be Itachi's downfall. Not only one hit would kill Itachi, Itachi has no way of seeing the energy Naruto uses for frog kata.

Itachi has to be trained in using senjutsu to sense frog kata, which he isn't

Itachi couldn't see Kabuto in the cave all augmented with senjutsu chakra, seeing only the snakes

Same is with Naruto's frog Kata, as it is senjutsu. As I previously said, Dust cloud technique is also a senpou, containing senjutsu. Itachi won't be able to see Naruto in the dust cloud either, if Naruto decides to engage Itachi in the cloud.
Itachi's speed is no problem either in cqc. Itachi was matching KCM Naruto, which by fact, is an inferior mode in cqc and danger sensing

Kabut also had no problem dealing with Itachi in cqc, which he was only caught because he forgot he had grown horns.

Shurikenjutsu is also easily countered by Naruto's far superior number in clones. No matter what Itachi does, he can't outmatch Naruto's sheer shuriken and knife quantity, used by clones, with himself and clones. If Itachi tries to use knives and shurikens, he'd face an insurmountable number of shurikens used by Naruto and his clone. Itachi needs to use susanoo to avoid all the shurikens from Naruto

Crow clones aren't even a factor since Itachi doesn't have anyone here distracting Naruto, with Naruto's full attention towards Itachi. The location is a destroyed Leaf village, so Itachi has no place to hide and create crow clones
Wrong Itachi speed feats > SM Naruto's. Itachi dodged Killer bee while in a grudge match with KM Naruto[ ]. SM Naruto speed feats are on 3tomoe Sasuke's level and here's why.

1- It's commonly known that V1 Raikages are about the same in speed. SM Naruto who barely managed to dodge the 3rd Raikage and counter attack[ ]was nearly hit. 3Tomoe Sasuke managed to replicate the same feat but just with Ei[ ]

2- Both managed to dodge and successfully counter v1 Raikages.

3tomoe Sasuke speed was tested against Killer bee's dance and he was not only knocked back but was cut[ ]-[ ]. Same thing tried against Itachi and he dodged it effortlessly[ ]. Also i've proved 1 3tomoe Sasuke speed is easily on par with SM Naruto
s. Itachi went up against this Sasuke in cqc while nearly blind. His terrible vision shown here[ ] Then let's not forget Pain himself manage to react and block against SM Naruto[ ] frog kata is irrelevant when Naruto gets in cqc range this happens[ ] Once restricted Amaterasu to the face or he gets squashed like this[ ] KM Naruto>SM Naruto in cqc. KM Naruto dodge V2 Fastest punch[ ]-[ ] This is proof that he has better reaction time than SM Naruto. SM Naruto couldn't even dodge a hit from blind Madara[ ]. Then there's the fact that KM Naruto speed was constantly being compared to Minato's.[ ]-[ ] Enough of that BS already. Itachi matching Kabuto proves my point even further. SM Kabuto is probably even faster than SM Naruto and Itachi easily matched him in cqc. Itachi simply uses his rib-cage susanoo to tank the shurikens and proceeds to use Phoenix Sage Flower Nail Crimson clones help him with this which would easily best Naruto in a Shuriken battle.



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Ninjutsu
Itachi's small Water release is easily countered by Ma's senjutsu enhanced fire release. Pa can add his wind release to even make it easier to counter water release

Itachi's fire release is also countered by Pa's water release. Ma can add wind to strengthen it out even more.

Amaterasu is a tricky technique to counter. But Naruto has couple of ways to counter it.
By having a large number of clones on the battlefield. Itachi would eat through his chakra fast trying to get every single Naruto clone. Also the fact that Naruto can keep spamming clones, if all the clones are destroyed. Itachi can't use Amaterasu not even nearly close to Naruto's clone spam fest. Not when Itachi has to use susanoo if he's trying to finish Naruto. Itachi can't distinguish between clones either, so no chance of him trying to snipe Naruto.

I will refrain from using the other method I was using on the other thread, as Naruto using clones is a safer way


Ma and Pa combo is never working as there more than liable to be cought in genjutsu which they will once there summoned. So i need a better effective way of countering Itachi's katon tech because the methods above aren't happening. Spamming clones aren't going to help Naruto. When Itachi can literally drag Amaterasu across a battlefield[ ] Itachi literally lit an entire forest a fire. Also it can be done in quick succession shown here[ ] So the clone method isn't going to work here at all. Not to mention Amaterasu can be cast(ed) Large[ ] Medium[ ] and small[ ]. This renders the clone method completely useless.



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Susanoo
Itachi's greatest weapon is susanoo. But only after v2 is that it provides a challenge to Naruto
Ribcage and V2 susanoo aren't that much of threat to Naruto, as they lack offensive power to hurt Naruto
Best feat is killing Danzo, who isn't nearly as strong or durable as SM Naruto. Magtamas are easily dodged by a simple body turn, like how Naruto easily dodged V1 Raikage. Susanoo sword in v2 isn't a problem either, as it doesn't have the range to get Naruto, when Naruto decides to keep his distance. These two versions are destroyed by a frs or two that can cut mountains.
V3 is the same as v2, but with more protection. A spam of giant rasengans and a couple more frs can take it out.
Complete susanoo is where the most problem comes from. It has a superb defense, and offense, but they are all countered.
Yata mirror is countered by Ma using Dust cloud. As I explained earlier, Itachi can't see Naruto in it, so Naruto is left free to come from behind, and attack it from there. Itachi is unaware of Naruto's location, so his attempt of using Yata to protect himself is futile, as Naruto attacks the location unprotected by Yata mirror.
Totsuka is dangerous, but it lacks feats that let Itachi to actually strike Naruto with it. Only times totsuka got its targets were the times the opponents had no idea about totsuka. Orochimaru wasn't even worried about the would totsuka gave him. He even called it a little wound. Nagato was also distracted by CT's ruins, and was blindsided. One more thing is that Itachi can't pierce what he can't see. With the dust cloud destroying his vision, Itachi wouldn't even try to use totsuka.
No he isn't dodging Magatama's with a simple body turn when there 4 of them[ ] and there just as fast if not faster than a Susanoo arrow. FRS gets ignited the moment Naruto tries to use it. When did FRS cut mountains? Giant Rasengan? L00l that was tanked by a rib-cage Susanoo[ ] FRS are ignited before they reach the Susanoo or Itachi can shoot a katon right through his Susanoo to counter them[ ] Ma and Pa dust cloud isn't going to work when Totsuka will stretch right through it slicing/cutting anything or anyone that tries to hide inside it. If Itachi and his Susanoo are inside Dust cloud he uses 360 Amaterasu[ ] So everything inside the dust cloud is roasted. The bottom half you didn't even explain how he'd attack Itachi nor did you explain how he'd get past Yata your making this to easy.



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Strategy
Immediately after the fight starts Naruto creates a huge number of clones to avoid getting one shotted by Tsukoyomi or Amaterasu. He then would summon Ma and Pa to aid him in battle. Naruto would also send 3 or 4 clones in location far from the battlefield to gather senjutsu, letting Naruto to have access to more Senjutsu chakra. By this time Naruto and his clones would all start throwing shurikens and knives towards Itachi, and letting the 4 clones get off the battlefield. Naruto would stall for a bit, and let his 4 clones to go gather, and balance the senjutsu gathered. Then Naruto would tell Ma to use dust cloud, and then he'd release his clones on the field. If Naruto felt like the dust cloud is getting dispersed, he'd ask Ma to use it again, beginning the cycle anew. With this Itachi's Usage of Amaterasu and genjutsu are rendered futile. By now Itachi has to keep up higher versions of Susanoo, or he'd get immediately obliterated by frs. FRS also doesn't disperse the dust cloud, just like it didn't disperse the smoke bomb's smoke

Once again, Itachi can't even see the senjutsu rasenshuriken, as the dust cloud is all senjutsu. Itachi can't see through senjutsu, as shown in his fight with Kabuto. Couldn't see Kabuto's chakra, even though it had chakra from multiple other people in him.
Everything Naruto will do in this battle after making sure 4 of his clones are off the field will happen inside the dust cloud.

If Naruto decides to make a huge number of clones Itachi then uses Amaterasu on a large scale[ ] This would immediately take out all of his clones. Once Ma and Pa are summoned and then their cought in genjutsu. Itachi puts up a rib-cage and rush Naruto while he tries to throw kunai to stall. Dust cloud isn't happening since Ma will be caught in genjutsu. Let's assume it does happen Itachi simply uses Totsuka and start randomly slashing through the smoke which would dice Naruto up while he's hiding inside the smoke. Rasenshurens are dodged since the 3rd Raikage literally dodge it from this distance[ ] Itachi has no reason to use higher forms of Susanoo here. That's about it.
 

TRE MERCER

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nah I don't want him as a judge
Then who?
lmao dude made this way to much in Itachi's favor. Krat0s if you win with these conditions gj.
Kratos believes Naruto can win so let's see how this pans out.
I think the unbalanced match-up was needed for this to be a balanced debate.
Don't try to overrate Kratos after he owned you in that debate that i owned him in L00l.
 

Lord Tywin

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Oh boy, real Itachi fans should be mortified. He first said it'll take him 30min, the it took him nearly 3 hours to post. And such a garbage at that. Smh will post tomorrow
I've seen him not read debates completely and even call faulty arguments better logic
 

EZQ

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Oh boy, real Itachi fans should be mortified. He first said it'll take him 30min, the it took him nearly 3 hours to post. And such a garbage at that. Smh will post tomorrow

I've seen him not read debates completely and even call faulty arguments better logic
That shit happened only once on a long ass debate of 6 wallie posts. I read carefully when i judge.

And in a debate where you are debating then "faulty" arguments would be all arguments, lmao. You lost with the 3rd against Hiashi boy, never forget.
 
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