Edo Hiruzen vs Kakuzu

[Zexion~]

Enma is a pole....That can easily be removed like in this matchup :lol

Domu>It regardless of its capabilities.

 

[DrProof]

Lmfao no. Kakuzu's defense has absolutely no holes in it. It is weak to lightning that's it. Enma can be worked around with any element.

Shoot a water dragon through that, fireball, wind tech (atsugai) etc. etc. they all leave Hiruzen exposed in one way or another.

Doton: Domu is weak to both Raiton, and Gentle Fist, but I won't get into the Hyuga > Domu right now, unless you deny it.

Lol what? If Doton: Domu can withstand elements aside from lightning-based ones, than Enma can withstand them all as well. They are cut from the same cloth. Both take on diamond properties. Diamond is the hardest substance within the manga proof when Kusanagi couldn't cut Enma. This in itself is a feat for Kakuzu, you should take this feat, and be happy rather than further try to disprove Enma being > to Domu in being a better defense.

Enma was capable of instantly becoming a prison. He can become anything Hiruzen wishes him to become simple as that. If he can transform into a prison bruh, a prison, while Hiruzen is about to be attacked than he can become anything he damn wants. The only notable reason as to why Enma became a prison of protection was so that Hiruzen wouldn't lose sight of Orochimaru, Hashirama, and Tobirama. Though, his smell would've picked them up quick, even then.

None of Kakuzu's elements are doing anything to an Enma wall, or an Enma cabin etc. Like I said before, Kusanagi = can cut/pierce anything. If that couldn't pierce him NO jutsu is getting passed that durability. Hiruzen notes in the VIZ that Enma is indestructible (HYPE FOR KAKUZU since they are the same material):

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Hiruzen then becomes weary of Kusanagi, signifying that the hype of Kusanagi is not only true, but that if Enma were anything less than diamond it would've pierced, and kill him:

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Hiruzen then notes that pain will be inflicted, but pain =/= dying. I go to the gym nearly everyday, I feel pain, but I don't die.

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Stop downplaying Enma, you should be taking in the hype, because the greater durability feats Enma has can be transitioned to Domu.

 

[DrProof]

Enma is a pole....That can easily be removed like in this matchup :lol

Domu>It regardless of its capabilities.

Zexion are you serious lol? Because Hiruzen is going to let Kakuzu remove Enma? :lol Because Enma is going to let itself be removed? :lol

Enma is capable of extending any part of itself out of his staff form.

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Enma would cut the tendrils accordingly each time they approached. :lol

Edit: F*ck you mean Domu > Enma due to capabilities? Zex take this L gracefully. Because Domu does nothing, but harden the body, and leave its user stationary. Enma literally can go offensive, and defensive.

Having the properties = Domu, as they are the same material, and no weakness to elements.

 

[ToshiZO]

Brah....that's dope and all, but it does not address the fact that Kakuzu is completely covered by his defense, it is a part of his body. Enma is a tool, and it can leave Hiruzen exposed at any given time.

We aren't talking about hardness of the material both should be around the same durability. Just that Kakuzu has the better defense, because it simply covers more ground and other than its elemental weakness has no loopholes.

If Enma is engaged in CQC, it can get parried dodged etc. and once you get past it Hiruzen is just there ready to be hit. Get past Kakuzu's attacks, and he activates Domu, it is a part of him and can get called upon any time he is in danger of being hit, enma is a tool, that like Zexion said can be separated from Hiruzen.

This is not Enma vs Domu's defense.

This is Kakuzu vs Hiruzen's defense. There is a difference. You are arguing Enma vs Domu.

 

[DrProof]

Brah....that's dope and all, but it does not address the fact that Kakuzu is completely covered by his defense, it is a part of his body. Enma is a tool, and it can leave Hiruzen exposed at any given time.

We aren't talking about hardness of the material both should be around the same durability. Just that Kakuzu has the better defense, because it simply covers more ground and other than its elemental weakness has no loopholes.

If Enma is engaged in CQC, it can get parried dodged etc. and once you get past it Hiruzen is just there ready to be hit. Get past Kakuzu's attacks, and he activates Domu, it is a part of him and can get called upon any time he is in danger of being hit, enma is a tool, that like Zexion said can be separated from Hiruzen.

This is not Enma vs Domu's defense.

This is Kakuzu vs Hiruzen's defense. There is a difference. You are arguing Enma vs Domu.

Enma = Hiruzen's defense. We're arguing the same thing bruh. Enma vs Domu = Hiruzen's defense vs Kakuzu's defense. Smh. No Kakuzu's defense isn't superior to Hiruzen's strictly because of Enma. Tool, or not. I have no idea how you claim the underlined, when Domu LITERALLY is secluded to the skin, and causes the user to become stationary. Enemy can turn into any obstruction (with the insertion of his staff(s)) and become the ultimate defense, or a very notable offense. It's simple to understand.

Why would Hiruzen need to use Enma as a separate companion, when he can simply keep him at his side :lol he wouldn't. That's literally stupid to have Enma go out, and fight solo. Against Kakuzu, you want to have all your cards literally stacked on you, and not drift mindlessly.

Enma isn't getting separated. I'm not going to argue this match-up as a whole, because Hiruzen stomps bad, rather you guys like it or not. I'm merely putting an end to this Domu > Enma when it doesn't. Enma not only possesses the same durability, but it has no weakness to Raiton/Gentle Fist like Domu, and it has better versatility.

Take this L gracefully Tosh.

 

[ToshiZO]

You aren't understanding anything here. Don't even know if you're reading.

Domu vs Enma would be comparing their durability and what they can do (shape shifting etc.)..

Kakuzu vs Hiruzen is how these defenses apply to these two, completely different argument. Enma is a tool that can get separated from Hiruzen, and from all those scans you showed it has holes in its defense.

Like I said water dragon, fire ball, atsugai etc. all expose that cage that covered Hiruzen. And no I'm not saying those attacks will break it down, read, I'm saying they will get through the holes in its defense.

Pretend that sword lunged is Enma, if engaged in CQC it can leave Hiruzen wide open.

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It is simply a tool. A very versatile one, but still a tool.

 

[DrProof]

You aren't understanding anything here. Don't even know if you're reading.

Domu vs Enma would be comparing their durability and what they can do (shape shifting etc.)..

Kakuzu vs Hiruzen is how these defenses apply to these two, completely different argument. Enma is a tool that can get separated from Hiruzen, and from all those scans you showed it has holes in its defense.

Like I said water dragon, fire ball, atsugai etc. all expose that cage that covered Hiruzen. And no I'm not saying those attacks will break it down, read, I'm saying they will get through the holes in its defense.

Pretend that sword lunged is Enma, if engaged in CQC it can leave Hiruzen wide open.

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It is simply a tool. A very versatile one, but still a tool.

No. Apparently you aren't the one reading here. Not only did I just state that Enma = Hiruzen's defensives (its in Hiruzen's arsenal for goodness sake, quit saying its not Hiruzen's Defense vs Kakuzu's Defense when it is). I've LITERALLY been preaching how both Enma and Domu apply to their respective users. It's NOT a different argument when I USE THEM both in the SAME post. Good lord.

Every scan I posted showed holes? What? Are you trolling? The only holes I've linked were in Enma's prison transformation. If you read my other post its fact that Enma can indeed shapeshift into ANY defensive structure he wishes, AS LONG AS IT IS MADE OF STAVES.

Enma doesn't just turn into a prison cage to block Hashirama's wood release, and not be able to turn into anything else. It's simple execution proven once again by the fact he multiplied himself into several dozen staves INSTANTLY.

If Enma can take on that form, what makes you think Enma can't assume a more closed off transformation like this:

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Enma obviously can manipulate himself into as many staffs, at any size/width/length as he wants, seeing as he instantly became a damn prison at the mention of Hiruzen's word.

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My quote is FURTHER PROVEN by the fact Enma was extended VS the Kyuubi.

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You bringing up Hiruzen being strucked by Kakuzu's elements through Enma's defense is null because Enma can transform into any defense structure.

Now Tosh. Take this L gracefully.

 

[MasqueradeNX]

Hiruzen would hands down win, no question about it.

 

[ToshiZO]

Still not getting it. You're bringing out an irrelevant point about it being in his arsenal, ofcourse it is but does that change anything I said in my previous posts? Not at all, it can still leave Hiruzen exposed, it can still be seperated from Hiruzen because it is simply a weapon, and attacks can and will get through the holes in its defense.

Add an x to all of those things listed, you only maybe addressed the third point but even then its a situational deal (for example someone coming from underground behind the wall, when Enma decides to go with a wall barrier)

 

[DrProof]

I'm done here lmao. I've literally posted over, and over reasons why Enma is a better defense in regards to battling, and usage vs Kakuzu. I'm not repeating myself again. Whoever debates this further. Good luck to you.

Zexion if your argument is different I will respond.

 

[ToshiZO]

Enma might be better overall but strictly as a defense? No.

 

[NarutoX28]

Hiruzen would win overall given that he has superior ninjutsu and a superior defense as well that acts as his offense, doesn't have any repercussions, and is activated immediately.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Because Kusanagi can cut through ANYTHING. Being able to take one strike of Kusanagi is a feat in itself.

This is false because since it failed to pierce 4tails

 

[DrProof]

This is false because since it failed to pierce 4tails

I'm referring to Pt.1. But yeah you're right about that. I doubt it could pierce stuff like Susano'o, third raikage etc.

Edit: Nvm. Just re-read. Kusanagi is said to cut anything, not pierce. My fault. It could definitely cut those things, piercing is another story. Piercing >> Cutting though.

 

[TRE MERCER]

I'm referring to Pt.1. But yeah you're right about that. I doubt it could pierce stuff like Susano'o, third raikage etc.

Edit: Nvm. Just re-read. Kusanagi is said to cut anything, not pierce. My fault. It could definitely cut those things, piercing is another story. Piercing >> Cutting though.

Lol no kusanagi isn't cutting through a Susanoo.

 

[DrProof]

Lol no kusanagi isn't cutting through a Susanoo.

Didn't say it would cut through. Cutting something =/= cutting through it. I can cut my finger with a pocket knife, and not cut my finger off.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Didn't say it would cut through. Cutting something =/= cutting through it. I can cut my finger with a pocket knife, and not cut my finger off.

No im saying any version of Susanoo tanks Kusanagi without a scratch.

 

[DrProof]

No im saying any version of Susanoo tanks Kusanagi without a scratch.

Speculation. Piercing =/= cutting. Kusanagi is a magical sword, cutting, and piercing could have majorly different results in their effectiveness. It may not have been able to pierce Naruto's KN4 cloak, but it may have been able to cut it. No point in arguing this though, as we haven't seen it do what the sword said it could do, only attempt to pierce. So I won't argue further in regards to it.

 

[Zexion~]

I'm done here lmao. I've literally posted over, and over reasons why Enma is a better defense in regards to battling, and usage vs Kakuzu. I'm not repeating myself again. Whoever debates this further. Good luck to you.

Zexion if your argument is different I will respond.

The hand argument was lame man, just because he can extend a hand doesn't mean it won't get caught as well. A quicker Kakashi with a sharper technique in Raikiri was still caught so Enma isn't stopping anything :lol HERE.

Bro its a pole so it still relies on Hiruzen's usage of it, the cage was literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen as it has blatant holes that wouldn't defend from anything really.

Domu hardens the skin and prevents any absorbs the force of mostly anything that is tanked by it preventing internal injury as well, not to mention a Domu fist sends Enma flying.

 

[Zexion~]

Lmao. Regardless of all that. When streaming chakra through weapons it has always shown to be one at a time. Shuriken have bladed edges, so Fuuton and Raiton would increase their penetrative power. Kakuzu's Fuuton has no such thing going for it so why would Kakuzu's chakra streaming be able to counter Hiruzen's? :lol.

If it's coming at him as thick as it was when Kakuzu used his Jiongu against Naruto then no, but if it's ordinary threading then it should burn it pretty easily. I

Oh shoot didn't see this, if he coats his threads with fuuton it would obviously negate Hiruzens raiton enhanced shurikans.

Shurikan alone aren't cutting the threads, so if the threads are enhanced with Fuuton that boosts its durability than Shurikan with fuuton as well are not cutting it :lol I'm hungry so I probably could word this better.


As for the Katon nah I don't see it, Katon has barely been shown to melt anything really :lol