Edo Hiruzen vs Kakuzu

[miromiro]

Edo Hiruzen takes this.

 

[Zexion~]

Bandwagonners U_U

What is this new feat that's got everyone up Hiruzens Ass?

Anyways if his threads count as sealing...They were fast enough to reach and ensnare Kakashi in an instant, He could seal him right off the bat really

 

[Sendai Aka No Ou]

Bandwagonners U_U

What is this new feat that's got everyone up Hiruzens Ass?

Anyways if his threads count as sealing...They were fast enough to reach and ensnare Kakashi in an instant, He could seal him right off the bat really

lol, this before or after Enma breaks his skull?

Kakuzu had one main advantage over his opponents: his nature versatility. Hiruzen, in one slide has surpassed every single one of Kakuzu's Jutsu. His Futon is bigger, his Katon is bigger, his Raiton is bigger and he actually has Suiton feats. Domu gets shat on.

 

[MickNerks]

Edo Hiruzen can't run out of chakra. ALive Hiruzen would collapse after performing an attack like this. He gets raped by Tsunade and he gets defeated by Sakura with high diff.
Prime Hiruzen with high chakra levels is a different story.

I highly disagree with the bolded. If hiruzen was alive he should still be able to perform an 5 elemental attack like shown today, because it is stated either in the manga or the databook that he:

1. Has excellent chakra control
2. Only uses the most Minimal amount of chakra to execute each technique.

So there is no chakra wasted. And in his fight with orochimaru he used 2 clones and 2 elements with no fatigue. His fatigue came from the taijutsu battle he had with hash and tobi, which can be expected from a man of his age.

 

[TheEvilOne]

I highly disagree with the bolded. If hiruzen was alive he should still be able to perform an 5 elemental attack like shown today, because it is stated either in the manga or the databook that he:

1. Has excellent chakra control
2. Only uses the most Minimal amount of chakra to execute each technique.

So there is no chakra wasted. And in his fight with orochimaru he used 2 clones and 2 elements with no fatigue. His fatigue came from the taijutsu battle he had with hash and tobi, which can be expected from a man of his age.

And I disagree with you.
The Hiruzen who fought Orochimaru can't do this. Why? Because he run out of chakra after using a doton, a katon, two shadow clones and summoning Enma. He isn't creating 5 shadow clones and using 5 elemental attacks. He would die.

The simple taijutsu isn't depleting the chakra levels and I think the fatigue has nothing to do with the chakra levels. But probably I'm wrong.

And Tsunade has perfect chakra control, yet even she run out of chakra.


@bold

Do you have a databook scan?

 

[Sendai Aka No Ou]

I highly disagree with the bolded. If hiruzen was alive he should still be able to perform an 5 elemental attack like shown today, because it is stated either in the manga or the databook that he:

1. Has excellent chakra control
2. Only uses the most Minimal amount of chakra to execute each technique.

So there is no chakra wasted. And in his fight with orochimaru he used 2 clones and 2 elements with no fatigue. His fatigue came from the taijutsu battle he had with hash and tobi, which can be expected from a man of his age.

You don't need to go into much detail here. Hiruzen made dour Kage Bushin - thus dividing his chakra by five. The fact each one had the chakra to do this a 20% means it's more than reasonable to say they'd survive at 100%. Not only that but there's the fact an Edo Tensei does have a limit to the chakra they can use, just no limit to how much they can regenerate.

 

[Zexion~]

lol, this before or after Enma breaks his skull?

Kakuzu had one main advantage over his opponents: his nature versatility. Hiruzen, in one slide has surpassed every single one of Kakuzu's Jutsu. His Futon is bigger, his Katon is bigger, his Raiton is bigger and he actually has Suiton feats. Domu gets shat on.

Lmao enma would get restrained as well U_U, you overate a monkey that couldn't even touch Orochimaru.


And would you care to show me this slide? Kakuzu still has the combination advantage, so I doubt he loses just like that ya fool ya fool

 

[ToshiZO]

Hiruzen is decent, but lets not get ahead of ourselves now.

 

[Sendai Aka No Ou]

Lmao enma would get restrained as well U_U, you overate a monkey that couldn't even touch Orochimaru.


And would you care to show me this slide? Kakuzu still has the combination advantage, so I doubt he loses just like that ya fool ya fool

You underrate a monkey that smashed Kurama out of the village boundaries.

This chapter. Nah my guy; with the implementation of Kage Bushin Kakuzu loses the advantage.

Futon+Fire? It's already manga cannon that Suiton + Funton is > that.

 

[Zexion~]

You underrate a monkey that smashed Kurama out of the village boundaries.

This chapter. Nah my guy; with the implementation of Kage Bushin Kakuzu loses the advantage.

Futon+Fire? It's already manga cannon that Suiton + Funton is > that.

If he uses the Kage Bunshin method, along with the Suiton + Fuuton, Kakuzu's ration ends that, as the wind in the water would be overpowered by the electricity and we all know what happens when Raiton comes into contact with suiton.... Bascially Kakuzu's combo would still be active but Hiruzens would not. Don't try to compare someone having all natures of Jutsu with Kakuzu, as the manor of how Kakuzu uses it still tops that regardless. As Kakuzu can still move around and engage in CQC with the clones and what not if he must, or use his threads to eliminate them swiftly, leaving Hiruzen to get roasted alive in the process.

Don't forget if he uses Kage Bunshin he would run out of chakra significantly quicker, and most likely they won't be as strong.

Also Kakuzu's faster then that monkey and has the same if not greater strength due to Domu CQC, Which by the DB makes them equally hard (hahahaha :|) So Kakuzu still wins that fight as well

 

[Nattana]

@bold

Do you have a databook scan?

Sorry to interrupt, but Hiruzen was said to know 1000 Genjutsu. I think it's something that requires great chakra control. Still - it's just hype, but the hype has been turning into reality since today's chapter.

 

[MickNerks]

And I disagree with you.
The Hiruzen who fought Orochimaru can't do this. Why? Because he run out of chakra after using a doton, a katon, two shadow clones and summoning Enma. He isn't creating 5 shadow clones and using 5 elemental attacks. He would die.

The simple taijutsu isn't depleting the chakra levels and I think the fatigue has nothing to do with the chakra levels. But probably I'm wrong.

And Tsunade has perfect chakra control, yet even she run out of chakra.


@bold

Do you have a databook scan?

I don't have a databook scan but I can try to find it.

Hiruzen never ran out of chakra in his battle with orochimaru. The only statement made was that he didn't have the chakra reserves like he had in his youth. What is known though is that his chakra (even while old) was extremely powerful, which is another reason why I believe he could still use such large scale techs easily, like when he made that giant doton wall against tobirama.

Also, when you think about it lets look at what hiruzen did in his old age:

1. (Presumably) S-rank Fire tech

2. (Presumably) S, A-rank Doton Tech

3. Summoned enma, which kishimoto himself call the most powerful summon in the fanbook. And if what we know about summoning from jiraiya's explaination is true, than the more powerful the summon the more chakra you must use. If enma was the strongest of part 1 that he required more than gamabunta, and naruto clearly showed how much gamabunta takes when he fell off the cliff.

4. Used 2 Shadow Clones which split his chakra in 1/3.

5. And used RDS. Now this is why I cant believe that he was anywhere close to running out of chakra. Because he used RDS on Hashirama and Tobirama, and then finally used it on Orochimaru. But when he used it on orochiramu he had the technique activated for an Hour (words of anbu), whilst he was impaled by oro's sword. Had hiruzen run out of chakra the RDS would ahave faded and oro would have been fine, but hiruzen was able to keep it activated for a hour. Which make me believe that it wasn't his chakra that was making him exhausted, but his elder body, that couldn't handle the stress of the battle.

 

[Sendai Aka No Ou]

If he uses the Kage Bunshin method, along with the Suiton + Fuuton, Kakuzu's ration ends that, as the wind in the water would be overpowered by the electricity and we all know what happens when Raiton comes into contact with suiton.... Bascially Kakuzu's combo would still be active but Hiruzens would not. Don't try to compare someone having all natures of Jutsu with Kakuzu, as the manor of how Kakuzu uses it still tops that regardless. As Kakuzu can still move around and engage in CQC with the clones and what not if he must, or use his threads to eliminate them swiftly, leaving Hiruzen to get roasted alive in the process.

Don't forget if he uses Kage Bunshin he would run out of chakra significantly quicker, and most likely they won't be as strong.

Also Kakuzu's faster then that monkey and has the same if not greater strength due to Domu CQC, Which by the DB makes them equally hard (hahahaha :|) So Kakuzu still wins that fight as well

lol... If Kakuzu does that then Hiruzen adds his own Raiton into the mix. You can't win this one, Zex. Not only that but where Hiruzen has his true edge exists in the fact any one if his Kage Bushin can interchangeably use whichever Jutsu they wish. Raiton Gian? Futon. Atsugai? Katon. Zukaku? Suiton. He loses to Hiruzen's versatility.

Kakuzu can't counter Hiruzen in the region in which he has feats, and Kakuzu doesn't. Edo Hiruzen won't ever tire, won't ever lose.

Hiruzen has faster speed feats than Kakuzu and Enma has greater strength.

 

[Red Slayer]

Edo Hiruzen wins IMO

 

[Europa]

Considering it's Edo Hiruzen, bar regen. I am giving it to the Hokage. He'd be able to split his chakra up via the shadow clones and basically deploy the same strategy he had displayed today. But, with the Chakra regeneration he'll be able to keep up with Kakuzu and continue similar assaults.

A living (Old) Hiruzen would lose mid diff due to the chakra and physical stamina issues he had when fighting Orochimaru.

 

[~Sky~]

Hiruzen can make clones and combine elements together just like Kakuzu and his masks do.

Plus he can probably use them in more ways. 1,000 jutsu hype.

 

[Nagato The Sage]

Edo Hiruzen takes it, but alive Hiruzen would get stomped.

 

[Zexion~]

lol... If Kakuzu does that then Hiruzen adds his own Raiton into the mix. You can't win this one, Zex. Not only that but where Hiruzen has his true edge exists in the fact any one if his Kage Bushin can interchangeably use whichever Jutsu they wish. Raiton Gian? Futon. Atsugai? Katon. Zukaku? Suiton. He loses to Hiruzen's versatility.

Kakuzu can't counter Hiruzen in the region in which he has feats, and Kakuzu doesn't. Edo Hiruzen won't ever tire, won't ever lose.

Hiruzen has faster speed feats than Kakuzu and Enma has greater strength.

He doesn't have faster speed feats at all?

And anyways there is no feats of Hirzuen being able to combine jutsu's my man, for all we know those jutsu's are not compatible, but whatever so who which jutsu comes out on top when they both combine their jutsu together U_U Nothing suggests Hiruzen are stronger, in fact they seem like rather bland jutsu's if you ask me

 

[Penguin]

Actually Hiruzen is almost as fast as Hashirama and Tobirama considering he kept up with them in shunshin. This does not translate into CQC speed, but still he is faster than Kakuzu. I give it to Hiruzen high diff.

 

[AGoodBoy]

I don't see hiruzen losing.

He perfectly counters the hearts and domu. Enma and shadow clones just give him that extra umph turning this from a 1 V 1 S-Class, to a 1 v 2 S-Class(hiruzen + enma) to a 1 v multiple S-Class.