Edo Hashirama>Edo Madara

[Founding Fire Shadow]

Why the stupid question? Her arm itself isn't ninjtusu so it obviously can't absorb it.

Preta path absorbing ninjutsu.....isn't my logic, this is databook facts.



Mokuton no Jutsu is a combination of two elements, Suiton and Doton it is converted to a source of life due to Yang release (yoton) which gives vitality and life. Nature Release via senjutsu is easily absorbed by preta path making yoton fall under the same category. You should read up on the jutsu before talking nonsense.

Nonsense? I said Hashirama mixes his elemental chakras (Earth/Water) to create life from the earth (or his body if he so chooses), you just repeated what I said, regardless, Mokuton is still actual wood it is not pure chakra, chakra fuels its growth as stated in Chapter 316, there is a difference, the Preta Path does absorb ninjutsu; by absorbing the chakra that makes up the jutsu, Mokuton unlike most jutsus is not pure chakra to be absorbed it is solid matter, Preta Path cannot absorb solid matter, this has been established clearly in Chapter 588, thus Preta Path cannot absorb Mokuton, therefore Preta Path is not a true counter to Mokuton, furthermore the properties of the chakra absorbed are passed onto the user thus in the cases of Senjutsu the user risks turning to stone as seen in Chapter 435 if they are not trained in handling the chakra.

You speak of nonsense yet ignore details established in the manga in favor of your won interpretations of information in the data-books; the same data-books that mark Hiruzen as the strongest Hokage of all which is clearly no longer the case, the manga trumps any & all sources.shodaimeicon:

 

[TrollingSage]

That is a Sage Mode, a completely different mode of fighting. I am only counting Hashirama's Mokuton techniques outside the SM. Even if we do include this, let's not forget this Hashirama barely won and by a hair at that against an EMS user. Why are you bringing healing into this? The guy is an Edo. Is that even a moot point here?

Not really. Even it terms of context, it may not imply defeat at all, but a simple dead-end on both sides where there is no defeat or victory. It's not EMS alone, but EMS in conjunction with Mokuton - without SM - and Rinnegan. That is two tiers above Hashirama regardless of his SM advantage, which we all know wasn't miles above EMS.



I can't see how you are contributing to the discussion. Mokuton - without SM - + EMS - which he barely won against, but couldn't do so in the past - + Rinnegan. I don't see your overly collaborating pointer's implication.

Ahem barely won against EMS Madara? Aren't you forgetting something? Here's a clue; its orange and has tails

 

[Waltz]

Nonsense? I said Hashirama mixes his elemental chakras (Earth/Water) to create life from the earth (or his body if he so chooses), you just repeated what I said, regardless, Mokuton is still actual wood it is not pure chakra, chakra fuels its growth as stated in Chapter 316, there is a difference, the Preta Path does absorb ninjutsu; by absorbing the chakra that makes up the jutsu, Mokuton unlike most jutsus is not pure chakra to be absorbed it is solid matter, Preta Path cannot absorb solid matter, this has been established clearly in Chapter 588, thus Preta Path cannot absorb Mokuton, therefore Preta Path is not a true counter to Mokuton, furthermore the properties of the chakra absorbed are passed onto the user thus in the cases of Senjutsu the user risks turning to stone as seen in Chapter 435 if they are not trained in handling the chakra.

You speak of nonsense yet ignore details established in the manga in favor of your won interpretations of information in the data-books; the same data-books that mark Hiruzen as the strongest Hokage of all which is clearly no longer the case, the manga trumps any & all sources.shodaimeicon:

*sigh*

What element contained in mokuton do you think Hashirama uses to control and manipulate mokuton itself?

 

[Edo Odin]

Not really.

1) Hyperbole

2) Unlike this case, Hashirama himself didn't say Hiruzen could beat him so it is not the same as Madara saying Hashirama can beat him.

3) Another hyperbole.

All your examples aren't as credible as one person saying that they will lose to another, especially when the one admitting inferiority knows everything about the one who he's admitting inferiority to. That is why Hashirama beating Edo Madara is fact.

BUT a statement by the character HIMSELF admitting that he would loose is ...... hard to argue against. it's different than another character saying something he believes and madara is PROUD of his power (he has a lot of pride.

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so he wouldn't say hashirama could beat him in the sense of admiring him, he was his rival.
now people not being able to imagine how this fight will go doesn't mean anything, and to dismiss this statement you need a good valid reason coz this was said by madara himself not what another character thinks of him .....

Nonetheless, I could be a b**** and use the same logic as everyone else, and say that you can't argue with manga facts. Shortly put, all these, along with Madara's statement, were stated in the manga, and haven't been contradicted yet, but by looking at simple facts, we can see that it's not true at all.

The case is the same with Madara stating that Hashirama could have stopped him. On one hand we have a Mokuton user, and on the other we have a man with the EMS, Rinnegan, and (weaker) Mokuton. Simply trying to argue that Hashirama beats Edo Madara just because "it was stated in the manga" is no different from saying that the Helmsplitter can get through the Perfect Susanoo.

 

[KidGamer65]

That is a Sage Mode, a completely different mode of fighting. I am only counting Hashirama's Mokuton techniques outside the SM. Even if we do include this, let's not forget this Hashirama barely won and by a hair at that against an EMS user. Why are you bringing healing into this? The guy is an Edo. Is that even a moot point here?

I simply noted those abilities to show that he is not Hashirama+Madara.

Not really. Even it terms of context, it may not imply defeat at all, but a simple dead-end on both sides where there is no defeat or victory. It's not EMS alone, but EMS in conjunction with Mokuton - without SM - and Rinnegan. That is two tiers above Hashirama regardless of his SM advantage, which we all know wasn't miles above EMS.

That doesn't equate to Hashirama stopping Madara, that equates to him holding him off but a standstill is not one stopping the other. Two Tiers above Hashirama? His Mokuton is inferior, His EMS was beaten already and now he has the Rinnegan, but in return he has lost the Kyuubi so that really isn't two tiers above Hashirama. His SM advantage wasn't miles above EMS (Perfect Susanoo) but it was above a PS Kyuubi fusion which is in turn above PS. Madara has now lost that Kyuubi and gained the Rinnegan instead so his SM advantage was above PS by itself by a large enough margin that fusing it with Kyuubi couldn't close the gap.

It was stated that Hashirama has a chance at beating Edo Madara.
But when did this ever equate to him actually beating him 10/10 times as you guys seem to imply?

You guys are going so far as to say Hashirama (not an Edo) > Edo Madara. Tell me now, how would he deal with Edo Madara, who has unlimited chakra and an undying body? You guys must think after seeing Shinsuusenju that EMS Madara must have been taken down negative difficulty, because big things impress you, right?

Hashirama, had he faced even an Edo EMS Madara back in the day, would have lost. Yes, he would be slightly superior, but what would that mean when your opponent won't run out of stamina and he just won't die?

Didn't even have to mention the rinnegan :|. Can't Edo Madara just spam meteors?

He didn't have to be taken down negative difficulty. EMS Madara had Kyuubi and PS fused together to fight Hashirama's Shinsenjuu, now he's lost that and gained the Rinnegan instead. Also, that seems to imply that Edo Madara is far enough above EMS Madara that Hashirama has to take him down no problem to take Edo Madara down which isn't true.

Also it is most likely that if Edo Madara said that Hashirama can stop him or even has a chance at stopping him that Hashirama has a sealing jutsu in hand.

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

Nonetheless, I could be a b**** and use the same logic as everyone else, and say that you can't argue with manga facts. Shortly put, all these, along with Madara's statement, were stated in the manga, and haven't been contradicted yet, but by looking at simple facts, we can see that it's not true at all.

The case is the same with Madara stating that Hashirama could have stopped him. On one hand we have a Mokuton user, and on the other we have a man with the EMS, Rinnegan, and (weaker) Mokuton. Simply trying to argue that Hashirama beats Edo Madara just because "it was stated in the manga" is no different from saying that the Helmsplitter can get through the Perfect Susanoo.

i don't think you got my point, the other statements you mentioned can be dismissed for obvious reasons :

- nagato (a delusional villain thinking he is a god) and the stuff said about him from other characters can be a way to describe how strong he is (they fear him and think he is unbeatable).

- what jiraiya said (he didn't realize or know the full power of the two shinobi's against him).

you see, there is a valid reason to dismiss each of these statements, but saying that we should do the same about what madara said is not right. WHY ?? why would he say that ?? and unless you can give a valid reason, then this is still correct (until proven otherwise).
just because you and i can't imagine madara loosing doesn't mean anything. the fight between them is not over (this senju of the thousand hands is not with edo madara) and we still haven't seen ALL what hashirama can do. again if you don't agree on a statement, you have to provide a valid reason to dismiss this EXACT statement .....

 

[KidGamer65]

Nonetheless, I could be a b**** and use the same logic as everyone else, and say that you can't argue with manga facts. Shortly put, all these, along with Madara's statement, were stated in the manga, and haven't been contradicted yet, but by looking at simple facts, we can see that it's not true at all.

The case is the same with Madara stating that Hashirama could have stopped him. On one hand we have a Mokuton user, and on the other we have a man with the EMS, Rinnegan, and (weaker) Mokuton. Simply trying to argue that Hashirama beats Edo Madara just because "it was stated in the manga" is no different from saying that the Helmsplitter can get through the Perfect Susanoo.

Nothing you listed was a manga fact, they were all unsupported things mentioned in the manga. Just because its said in the manga doesn't mean its fact unless its supported by something and is credible.

-Nagato calling himself God is baseless hype just like Helmsplitter busting through PS is same thing with people claiming Pain can't be beaten without knowledge. Madara himself saying Hashirama can beat him is a fact because he knows the limits of Hashirama and himself.

What? No, lmao they are saying two very different things.

-Hashirama>Edo Madara not because the manga said so. Its because Madara himself said so.
-Madara knows Hashirama's limits and knows his own limits but still says Hashirama can beat him, obviously that should be taken as fact.

Saying Helmsplitter can get through PS is baseless, unsupported hype. Madara saying Hashirama can beat him is NOT baseless unsupported hype as Madara knows his limits and Hashirama's limits.

 

[KingHashirama]

It was stated that Hashirama has a chance at beating Edo Madara.
But when did this ever equate to him actually beating him 10/10 times as you guys seem to imply?

You guys are going so far as to say Hashirama (not an Edo) > Edo Madara. Tell me now, how would he deal with Edo Madara, who has unlimited chakra and an undying body? You guys must think after seeing Shinsuusenju that EMS Madara must have been taken down negative difficulty, because big things impress you, right?

Hashirama, had he faced even an Edo EMS Madara back in the day, would have lost. Yes, he would be slightly superior, but what would that mean when your opponent won't run out of stamina and he just won't die?

Didn't even have to mention the rinnegan :|. Can't Edo Madara just spam meteors?

Key word, it was stated LIVING Hashirama has a chance..... However, Hashirama is now EDO... and as a Edo hes clearly shown to be more powerful then Madara...

. How does Madara prove hes superior to him , when he doesn't believe so? powerscale wise Madara is Hashirama's biotch.

 

[TheSages456]

It was stated that Hashirama has a chance at beating Edo Madara.
But when did this ever equate to him actually beating him 10/10 times as you guys seem to imply?

You guys are going so far as to say Hashirama (not an Edo) > Edo Madara. Tell me now, how would he deal with Edo Madara, who has unlimited chakra and an undying body? You guys must think after seeing Shinsuusenju that EMS Madara must have been taken down negative difficulty, because big things impress you, right?

Hashirama, had he faced even an Edo EMS Madara back in the day, would have lost. Yes, he would be slightly superior, but what would that mean when your opponent won't run out of stamina and he just won't die?

Didn't even have to mention the rinnegan :|. Can't Edo Madara just spam meteors?

bold 1-because the full power of hashirama is greater than the canon full power of madara(perfect susano) not the fanon full power of madara(every rinnegan tech, meteor showers, ability to cover the planet in mokuton & replicate senpou mokuton when he cant even use sage mode, unlimited clones, creation of all things).

bold 2-you seem to exaggerate edo tensei a lot. why is that? it has never been implied to be anywhere near as big a powerup as you are preaching. every edo character summoned has had identical performances to their living selves. they just dont get tired so whats with the BS? neither hashirama or madara had any chakra issues at VOTE & this is clearly shown.

bold 3-no hashirama wouldnt have lost because hashirama is stronger than madara. its just that simple. other factors dont come into play until you can match the power put out by the opponent. madara obviously cant do this as he is weaker as stated & canonically shown.

bold 4- you're going to need scans of madara making it rain meteors. a meteor from madara isnt even half the height of shinsuusenju. the meteor is smaller than the mountains that shinsuusenju dwarf. the meteor would basically break on its head or the many hands or its back with it still casually moving forward.

 

[Founding Fire Shadow]

*sigh*

What element contained in mokuton do you think Hashirama uses to control and manipulate mokuton itself?

I really need you to pay attention to detail, like I said before; Hashirama's Mokuton is "infused" with his chakra not made entirely of it, there is a difference, similar to how Gaara has infuses his chakra into his sand enabling him to manipulate it, the difference being Hashirama uses his chakra to fuel his Mokuton's growth, while he does use his chakra to create his Mokuton, it is still wood, it is not pure chakra like the Rasengan which can be absorbed casually, it is solid matter which cannot be absorbed by Preta Path as established in the manga, the Rinnegan user would need to drain the chakra from the Mokuton by physical contact which is quite a task given the sheer quantity at which Hashirama can produce it 7 the speed at which he produces it in, furthermore when dealing with his Senjutsu the Rinnegan user faces the threat of being petrified from absorbing the natural chakra, thus Preta Path is not a true counter for Mokuton.

You fail to see that Hashirama's Mokuton is "fueled" by his chakra not made entirely of it.shodaimeicon:

 

[Waltz]

I really need you to pay attention to detail, like I said before; Hashirama's Mokuton is "infused" with his chakra not made entirely of it, there is a difference, similar to how Gaara has infuses his chakra into his sand enabling him to manipulate it, the difference being Hashirama uses his chakra to fuel his Mokuton's growth, while he does use his chakra to create his Mokuton, it is still wood, it is not pure chakra like the Rasengan which can be absorbed casually, it is solid matter which cannot be absorbed by Preta Path as established in the manga, the Rinnegan user would need to drain the chakra from the Mokuton by physical contact which is quite a task given the sheer quantity at which Hashirama can produce it 7 the speed at which he produces it in, furthermore when dealing with his Senjutsu the Rinnegan user faces the threat of being petrified from absorbing the natural chakra, thus Preta Path is not a true counter for Mokuton.

You fail to see that Hashirama's Mokuton is "fueled" by his chakra not made entirely of it.shodaimeicon:

If his chakra is infused then it can be absorbed and mokuton rendered useless. Why has it taken you so long to realize this?

 

[Founding Fire Shadow]

If his chakra is infused then it can be absorbed and mokuton rendered useless. Why has it taken you so long to realize this?

If it was that simple then Gaara's sand would not have been a problem for Madara's Preta Path & even if it did he could only disable the Mokuton he could physically contact & their is no way he could disable wave after wave without taking any damage, furthermore you fail to realize that in the case of Hashirama's Mokuton infused with his natural chakra Madara or any Rinnegan user risks being petrified.shodaimeicon:

 

[Waltz]

If it was that simple then Gaara's sand would not have been a problem for Madara's Preta Path & even if it did he could only disable the Mokuton he could physically contact & their is no way he could disable wave after wave without taking any damage, furthermore you fail to realize that in the case of Hashirama's Mokuton infused with his natural chakra Madara or any Rinnegan user risks being petrified.shodaimeicon:

That bold was addressed in one of my previous posts. Also, Mokuton is only infused with natural energy if senjutsu is to be used as we saw hashirama gathering natural energy before using shinshuusenjutu. Preta path forms an orb around the user, so there will be no damage as mokuton's chakra would be absorbed on contact and you otherwise have no proof (am referring to actual proof, not assumptions you make) that damage would be done.

 

[Unorthodox]

because only Obito and Sasuke actually could become it's Jinchuriki and is a villain). If one should be the final villain it's between them

Obito obviously isnt going to be the finale villian he's going to die by kakashi hands why would sasuke want to be the host of the 10 tails sasuke & naruto are gonna fight as rivals in the final battle have juubi criples that and if the sage cant hold juubi sasuke cannot eithere sasuke isnt becomeing a jin

also no one wins nithere can get over on the other but madara is stronger

 

[mun]

hashi stomps madara ;/ even with rinnegan, ems, mokuton madara still sucks hashirama's **** and praises him. Oh yea just cause he got rinnegan doesn't mean anything special. Madara ems is stronger than rinnegan and thats fact. In a matchup with ems madara and nagato, madara would win. Hashi already beat ems, so obviously he can easily beat rinnegan.

 

[-Blade-]

Edo Madara wins

 

[Founding Fire Shadow]

That bold was addressed in one of my previous posts. Also, Mokuton is only infused with natural energy if senjutsu is to be used as we saw hashirama gathering natural energy before using shinshuusenjutu. Preta path forms an orb around the user, so there will be no damage as mokuton's chakra would be absorbed on contact and you otherwise have no proof (am referring to actual proof, not assumptions you make) that damage would be done.

Preta Path has to make physical contact to absorb chakra directly from solid matter, that is established in the manga & data-books, as seen when Preta Path had to grab Naruto to absorb his chakra from him, if the barrier could absorb chakra from physical matter then physical attacks would be useless too as the chakra would be absorbed from the attacks before they ever made contact hence why Madara's barrier failed to absorb Gaara's chakra from his sand & disable it.shodaimeicon:

 

[karol the don]

Edo Madara laughs at edo hashirama with his rinnegan and mokuton.

 

[saw2097]

I think that Edo Madara would win.

But mainly I just think it would be anti climatic if Edo Madara is stopped because a stronger Edo comes along and saves the day.

Plus Tobirama noted that they are not at full power.

 

[KingHashirama]

Edo Madara laughs at edo hashirama with his rinnegan and mokuton.

o-o. Edo Madara starts shitting just like everyone else, when Hashirama wants him to ^_^.