Edo Chakra explained with Soda

[Mellanoma]

I've explained this long before but cant find my link

Edo Chakra works like this:

Unlimited Chakra/Stamina
However you are weaker

So to break this down i will use Soda as an example

Alive Shinobi: Chakra levels = 5 Liters of Soda

Edo Shinobi: Chakra levels = 3 Liters of Soda


Alive Shinobi has 2 liters more Soda/Chakra than his Edo comparison meaning he is capable of doing "STRONGER" jutsu/abilities as his capacity is highest.

However once he uses all 5 liters of Soda/Chakra he can no longer fight UNTIL he can rest or dies.


Edo Shinobi has 2 liters less than his Alive counterpart meaning he isn't capable of using his "STRONGER" jutsu/abilities as some jutsu/abilities may require 4-5 liters of Soda/Chakra.

However by Unlimited definition. Edo Shinobi chakra will always refill back to the max of 3 liters of Soda/Chakra



Infinite Chakra would be saying:

Alive Shinobi = 5 Liters of Soda
Edo Shinobi = 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999+ liters of Soda

This is not true as an Edo would be capable of ANYTHING.

 

[HyuugaHeir]

NOw I want some soda.
I have always thought about edo chakra that way too.

 

[Hammock]

All the edo's were stronger than when they were alive :|

 

[Holy God]

You've flipped the definitions. They have infinite chakra, as it is always rising, but they do not have unlimited chakra, because they still have a limit.

 

[Mellanoma]

You've flipped the definitions. They have infinite chakra, as it is always rising, but they do not have unlimited chakra, because they still have a limit.

Not true. Unlimited is bound an finite limit

Infinite is not limited by an finite limit.

They are practically the same word except when you factor in finite limitations.

Unlimited has a capacity.

Infinite doesn't have a capacity

 

[MomoSaka]

I will go and get myself some WATER:elmo:

 

[Holy God]

Not true. Unlimited is bound an finite limit

Infinite is not limited by an finite limit.

They are practically the same word except when you factor in finite limitations.

Unlimited has a capacity.

Infinite doesn't have a capacity

No, the term is literally self-explanatory. Something that is unlimited has no limit. You cannot give a limit to something and then proceed to call it unlimited.

Definition: "not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent"

 

[SenseiSama]

All the edo's were stronger than when they were alive :|

No only Madara was

 

[Mellanoma]

No, the term is literally self-explanatory. Something that is unlimited has no limit. You cannot give a limit to something and then proceed to call it unlimited.

Definition: "not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent"

In terms of energy usage capacity is key to the difference between the two.

The Capacity in question is the host or body containing unlimited energy.

If madara stated Infinite energy then this capacity would be removed meaning he would have an unmeasurable amount of chakra to the point he could do ANY jutsu to ANY Scale. However he could not as his capacity was limited to his body

Same can be said for Hashirama. With infinite chakra Hashirama could have summoned 10000000000000000000000 SS statues but his capacity was limited to his vessel

Capacity is key when analyzing the difference between unlimited and infinite when dealing with energy and many other variables

 

[Holy God]

In terms of energy usage capacity is key to the difference between the two.

The Capacity in question is the host or body containing unlimited energy.

If madara stated Infinite energy then this capacity would be removed meaning he would have an unmeasurable amount of chakra to the point he could do ANY jutsu to ANY Scale. However he could not as his capacity was limited to his body

Same can be said for Hashirama. With infinite chakra Hashirama could have summoned 10000000000000000000000 SS statues but his capacity was limited to his vessel

Capacity is key when analyzing the difference between unlimited and infinite when dealing with energy and many other variables

Exactly, it's all about capacity, and the very definition of unlimited is that the subject has no limits nor bounds (thus no set capacity). I still don't understand how you are labeling something with a limit as unlimited.

 

[Mellanoma]

Exactly, it's all about capacity, and the very definition of unlimited is that the subject has no limits nor bounds (thus no set capacity). I still don't understand how you are labeling something with a limit as unlimited.

This is where you are getting it wrong...

The chakra is unlimited however the capacitor is not unlimited.

If Madara stated Infinite chakra this would mean that he could use chakra well beyond his capacity. But based on Manga facts it was indeed proven that Edo can't do this.

Infinite has no variables
Unlimited does

My phrasing is based on the vessel not the chakra itself
It would be illogical for an Edo to state infinite chakra

 

[Holy God]

This is where you are getting it wrong...

The chakra is unlimited however the capacitor is not unlimited.

If Madara stated Infinite chakra this would mean that he could use chakra well beyond his capacity. But based on Manga facts it was indeed proven that Edo can't do this.

Infinite has no variables
Unlimited does

My phrasing is based on the vessel not the chakra itself
It would be illogical for an Edo to state infinite chakra

I was talking about the amount of chakra they hold at a time, which as proven in the manga and said by yourself many times, is not unlimited, but ever increasing unto a bound, which is why I called it infinite, albeit not perfectly fitting the definition.

 

[kiiro]

No, the term is literally self-explanatory. Something that is unlimited has no limit. You cannot give a limit to something and then proceed to call it unlimited.

Definition: "not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent"

You can have and unlimited dollar for ever or you can have infinite money. This is not the same.

Infinite is something you cant measure. That is why you say it is infinite. There is no reason to try. Unlimited is something you can measure. You can have 100 dollars each time you waste it.

Did I explain?

 

[Holy God]

You can have and unlimited dollar for ever or you can have infinite money. This is not the same.

Infinite is something you cant measure. That is why you say it is infinite. There is no reason to try. Unlimited is something you can measure. You can have 100 dollars each time you waste it.

Did I explain?

If you have an unlimited amount of dollars then you can possess any amount, as there is no limit. You are deliberately giving the possessor a limit, but not the amount of money, which defies the spectrum of what I am talking about.

 

[kiiro]

Yes, this is the reason that:

Hashirama and Tobirama could do an limit number of clons

Spoiler

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Or Minato getting tired after teleporting shinobi alliance:

Spoiler

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Or Minato saying that it takes time to fill his chakra levels, if it was infinite it will never come to low levels:

Spoiler

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Edos dont have infinite. Great thread.

 

[kiiro]

If you have an unlimited amount of dollars then you can possess any amount, as there is no limit. You are deliberately giving the possessor a limit, but not the amount of money, which defies the spectrum of what I am talking about.

Nope. Look at it like this. You have two sources.

One, all the water from the seas. ¿How much is it? We don't know, so we can say it is infinite because it is to much to be measure.
Two, you have a bottle of 20 liters of water. Those 20 liters is your limit. But, they say that you can have an unlimited times of that bottle. When you finish those 20 liters you get the refill of the 20 liters and so. You cant have more than 20 liters. But you can do still a lot of things with that.

 

[Holy God]

Nope. Look at it like this. You have two sources.

One, all the water from the seas. ¿How much is it? We don't know, so we can say it is infinite because it is to much to be measure.
Two, you have a bottle of 20 liters of water. Those 20 liters is your limit. But, they say that you can have an unlimited times of that bottle. When you finish those 20 liters you get the refill of the 20 liters and so. You cant have more than 20 liters. But you can do still a lot of things with that.

And since there is a limit to the amount of water the bottle can have, it is not unlimited. How are you even defining unlimited? Something that regenerates?

 

[Mellanoma]

I was talking about the amount of chakra they hold at a time, which as proven in the manga and said by yourself many times, is not unlimited, but ever increasing unto a bound, which is why I called it infinite, albeit not perfectly fitting the definition.

I think we are arguing the same point

Except:

Infinite has no bounds
Unlimited has an external factor that bounds it.

When factoring Unlimited there must be some external form of capacity otherwise it's defined as infinite.


As Kiro stated something can be unlimited but externally bound to a set # or quantity.
Think of video games with "Unlimited health" If your health is 100 and you activate it. Your health stays 100 it just never moves lol


The Chakra is unlimited but the external factors around it are not.

If you have an unlimited amount of dollars then you can possess any amount, as there is no limit. You are deliberately giving the possessor a limit, but not the amount of money, which defies the spectrum of what I am talking about.

Unlimited amount of money but the possessor has a limit. This is an external factor that I'm talking about. The money is unlimited but the possessor is limited. This is a bound i speak of.

From a scientific perspective this makes sense. However you are under the impression that something unlimited means EVERY THING around it is unlimited as well which is not true.

Infinite doesn't care about external factors or bounds.

I hope this makes sense

And since there is a limit to the amount of water the bottle can have, it is not unlimited. How are you even defining unlimited? Something that regenerates?

Look at what you just stated.

The Water is Unlimited

The Water bottles are limited

Two completely separate entities. If the water is unlimited that doesn't mean the water bottles must be unlimited however in this situation water bottles are an external factor.

As for regeneration. Yes and no or both depending on the factors.

If you have unlimited water in a water bottle. No matter how much you keep pouring from that bottle the water will never empty as the water is unlimited.

You can fill an ocean + more with a simple water bottle as the water will keep flowing forever.

 

[Holy God]

I think we are arguing the same point

Except:

Infinite has no bounds
Unlimited has an external factor that bounds it.

When factoring Unlimited there must be some external form of capacity otherwise it's defined as infinite.


As Kiro stated something can be unlimited but externally bound to a set # or quantity.
Think of video games with "Unlimited health" If your health is 100 and you activate it. Your health stays 100 it just never moves lol


The Chakra is unlimited but the external factors around it are not.



Unlimited amount of money but the possessor has a limit. This is an external factor that I'm talking about. The money is unlimited but the possessor is limited. This is a bound i speak of.

From a scientific perspective this makes sense. However you are under the impression that something unlimited means EVERY THING around it is unlimited as well which is not true.

Infinite doesn't care about external factors or bounds.

I hope this makes sense




Look at what you just stated.

The Water is Unlimited

The Water bottles are limited

Two completely separate entities. If the water is unlimited that doesn't mean the water bottles must be unlimited however in this situation water bottles are an external factor.

As for regeneration. Yes and no or both depending on the factors.

If you have unlimited water in a water bottle. No matter how much you keep pouring from that bottle the water will never empty as the water is unlimited.

You can fill an ocean + more with a simple water bottle as the water will keep flowing forever.

You're arguing for something completely different however. If you separate them into two factors, a source and a container, then the source indeed is unlimited as you're saying, but it is also infinite, as it never ceases. This essentially makes our arguing useless because we'd both be right.

If you stay with just the bottle, then the amount of water in any instance is limited to the amount the bottle can hold. The respective element here is the amount of times the bottle refills, which is both infinite and unlimited, but then you must realize that the argument is not over how it refills, but the amount of water, in which case it is always limited yet rising, which can more so be defined as "infinite".

In summary, the source of the chakra for Impure World Resurrection is both infinite and unlimited, whether it be some theoretical pool or their ability to create/regenerate, but the amount that any soul has at any time is bound to a limit, and the point of the thread is how much chakra they have, not how much they have access to.

 

[Mellanoma]

You're arguing for something completely different however. If you separate them into two factors, a source and a container, then the source indeed is unlimited as you're saying, but it is also infinite, as it never ceases. This essentially makes our arguing useless because we'd both be right.

If you stay with just the bottle, then the amount of water in any instance is limited to the amount the bottle can hold. The respective element here is the amount of times the bottle refills, which is both infinite and unlimited, but then you must realize that the argument is not over how it refills, but the amount of water, in which case it is always limited yet rising, which can more so be defined as "infinite".

In summary, the source of the chakra for Impure World Resurrection is both infinite and unlimited, whether it be some theoretical pool or their ability to create/regenerate, but the amount that any soul has at any time is bound to a limit, and the point of the thread is how much chakra they have, not how much they have access to.

I see a breakthrough!

Unlimited has bounds
Infinite does not.

You can't say "infinite water" in a bottle.

Infinite starts at infinite

Unlimited can be restricted

So someone saying infinite water in a bottle is incorrect

One could say an unlimited amount of water in a bottle that can infinity be poured is a better example